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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Level 60-70 XP

noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer
With Module 13 we have made adjustments to the Level 60-70 XP curve.

Previously there was a very large jump in experience required per level at level 60 and specific zones also had very large increases in XP rewards to go along with this. This could be a very jarring experience for players, especially if they were still finishing up a previous zone when they hit level 60.

We have brought the 60-70 curve in line with the 1-60 curve. To go along with this we also adjusted XP gains in the Elemental Evil zones, and campaign missions for the Maze Engine and Sharandar, among other XP adjustments. Elemental Evil also had some tweaks made to the quest chains to make the progress feel better and keep the story and gameplay advancing at a good pace.

Proportionally the post level 70 bonus XP needed for rewards was brought down to go with these changes.

We encourage anyone who'd like to check out these changes to jump in and do so, and feel free to leave any feedback or issues below.

KNOWN ISSUES: It is not intended for any player in the 60-70 range to see a level change on their character upon logging in. It is also not intended for a player to receive multiple overflow XP rewards due to this change over.
Post edited by noworries#8859 on
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Comments

  • sky1stnamesky1stname Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 142 Arc User
    love it!
  • zerappuszerappus Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    As stated on the original thread,

    Bugs:

    - Level 70 XP overflow reward is infinite/recurring. It keeps giving rewards (not checking if it's really infinite).
    - Level 70 XP gain is too high.

    Are you all sure the lvl 70 XP gain is intended? This is going to be bot exploited, given one of the rewards for lvl 70 overflow is 30,000 Astral Diamonds.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,421 Arc User
    edited January 13
    Quite frankly, I hate this.

    I copied over some of my characters that were somewhere between levels 60 and 70.
    • My level 60 OP is now suddenly level 66, while all my characters of level 61 and higher got bumped up to 70. This is going to result in a flood of badly equpped level 70s, with even less understanding than before of how to play their class.
    • My main got a ton of level up bonuses when logging in the first time, including 11 Powerpoints, a lot of black opals and such. Sure, it is appreciated, but really - it feels overly generous.
    • Even a "mule" alt of level 60+ who only does Leadership tasks will now reach 70 in no time.
    Bottom line for me: Too much of a good thing.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Primary: Tanya - Female Half-elf DC
    Secondary: Draupnir Irontoe - Male Dwarf GF (and 14 others I play even less)

    Member of Civil Anarchy
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 444 Arc User
    That's fine - you can equip them with those chultan riches, and have another few AD makers.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited January 13
    zerappus said:

    As stated on the original thread,

    Bugs:

    - Level 70 XP overflow reward is infinite/recurring. It keeps giving rewards (not checking if it's really infinite).
    - Level 70 XP gain is too high.

    Are you all sure the lvl 70 XP gain is intended? This is going to be bot exploited, given one of the rewards for lvl 70 overflow is 30,000 Astral Diamonds.

    Exactly, it should stay as it is if the monsters/lvl 70 zone quests xp remain the same. With 100k per level you can gain 5 levels easily in IG, and bots will get rich so easily without any possible punishment (all hail the 15 min kick waiting time)
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 438 Arc User
    If players begin EE at level 60, as they should, they progress through the campaign with appropriate difficulty and benefit from the gear and weapon rewards they are earning

    This change just trivializes EE and the other early campaigns for first time players for no reason at all

    The trend seems to be to make everyone super overpowered with the only challenge to the game being putting up with the grind.... Instead of monsters being difficult to overcome and tactics, skill and teamwork being important to success, players are left just fighting the underlying mechanics of the game itself

    Click a thousand times, get a balloon
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer
    edited January 13
    Certainly it is not intended for players to jump in level while logging in, or get multiple overflow XP rewards during the change over (only 1 if you are already above the new limit). Something isn't working correctly with the versioning.

    If players begin EE at level 60, as they should, they progress through the campaign with appropriate difficulty and benefit from the gear and weapon rewards they are earning

    That is exactly the intended behavior. If you hit level 60 and begin EE it should progress very smoothly throughout.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer
    c3rb3r3 said:


    Exactly, it should stay as it is if the monsters/lvl 70 zone quests xp remain the same. With 100k per level you can gain 5 levels easily in IG, and bots will get rich so easily without any possible punishment (all hail the 15 min kick waiting time)

    Let us know where this is happening as it is most likely a case of needed to adjust the reward on a given skirmish or quest. Grinding through monsters should take players as long as it did before to get an overflow XP reward.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 438 Arc User
    They do that now... Decreasing difficulty by leveling them up faster trivializes the content

    Its more important for players about to reach level 70 to experience challenging gameplay

    You guys are making this all too easy and turning the game into a boring grindfest... you should just give xp and gear for hitting practice dummies and be done with it
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer

    They do that now... Decreasing difficulty by leveling them up faster trivializes the content

    Its more important for players about to reach level 70 to experience challenging gameplay

    You guys are making this all too easy and turning the game into a boring grindfest... you should just give xp and gear for hitting practice dummies and be done with it

    In our testing, if a character doesn't have XP boosts on, they will have to work their way through the EE campaign to get from 60 to 70. The difficulty of the content did not change. I would recommend to anyone that they take a level 60 and play through at least some of EE to get a feel for the changes and the rate of advancement.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 438 Arc User
    That was the point... Those are the early boons and they are very valuable for a low level toon

    They mattered and the gear the player got for rewards mattered

    Players already had the option of running IG until they got to 70 and then going back to do EE over-leveled

    Changes like this remove the possibility of challenge from the monsters in the game and replace it with the challenge of putting up with the game's mechanics and grind requirements
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 438 Arc User
    Which is fine... If Cryptic wants to reshape Neverwinter into an easy-mode Facebook game only for casuals, that's Cryptic's prerogative...

    That's not why I started playing Neverwinter years ago, but its not my game to ruin
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,421 Arc User

    I would recommend to anyone that they take a level 60 and play through at least some of EE to get a feel for the changes and the rate of advancement.


    Ah, I had one level 60 (well, actually he was like 90% along the way to 61. As soon as I logged him in, he went to 66. Not working as intended, I guess.

    Primary: Tanya - Female Half-elf DC
    Secondary: Draupnir Irontoe - Male Dwarf GF (and 14 others I play even less)

    Member of Civil Anarchy
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 444 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I would recommend to anyone that they take a level 60 and play through at least some of EE to get a feel for the changes and the rate of advancement.


    Ah, I had one level 60 (well, actually he was like 90% along the way to 61. As soon as I logged him in, he went to 66. Not working as intended, I guess.

    Working exactly as intended, probably. That 90% of exp kept its value (so if it required 1m exp and you had 900k, and the new requirement per level is 100k, you would get 9 levels or whatever). Can't say I mind it albeit I almost filled my pants with poo when I got like 10 exp for killing a fly or something, because all my 1.5 mil overflow exp got turned into exp rewards... that was REALLY loud.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer

    adinosii said:


    Ah, I had one level 60 (well, actually he was like 90% along the way to 61. As soon as I logged him in, he went to 66. Not working as intended, I guess.

    Working exactly as intended, probably. That 90% of exp kept its value (so if it required 1m exp and you had 900k, and the new requirement per level is 100k, you would get 9 levels or whatever). Can't say I mind it albeit I almost filled my pants with poo when I got like 10 exp for killing a fly or something, because all my 1.5 mil overflow exp got turned into exp rewards... that was REALLY loud.

    Certainly it is not intended for players to jump in level while logging in, or get multiple overflow XP rewards during the change over (only 1 if you are already above the new limit). Something isn't working correctly with the versioning.

    As mentioned above the level jumping is not intended and hopefully we will have the versioning working better the next time we upload a build.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 8,244 Community Moderator

    c3rb3r3 said:


    Exactly, it should stay as it is if the monsters/lvl 70 zone quests xp remain the same. With 100k per level you can gain 5 levels easily in IG, and bots will get rich so easily without any possible punishment (all hail the 15 min kick waiting time)

    Let us know where this is happening as it is most likely a case of needed to adjust the reward on a given skirmish or quest. Grinding through monsters should take players as long as it did before to get an overflow XP reward.
    I believe they said it was happening in Illusionist's Gambit. "IG".
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - I mainly play on Xbox
    Yes, we are aware that signature images are broken/no longer allowed. No eta on a fix.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 161 Arc User

    c3rb3r3 said:


    Exactly, it should stay as it is if the monsters/lvl 70 zone quests xp remain the same. With 100k per level you can gain 5 levels easily in IG, and bots will get rich so easily without any possible punishment (all hail the 15 min kick waiting time)

    Let us know where this is happening as it is most likely a case of needed to adjust the reward on a given skirmish or quest. Grinding through monsters should take players as long as it did before to get an overflow XP reward.
    Then it's fine I guess
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited January 13
    zerappus said:

    As stated on the original thread,

    Bugs:

    - Level 70 XP overflow reward is infinite/recurring. It keeps giving rewards (not checking if it's really infinite).
    - Level 70 XP gain is too high.

    Are you all sure the lvl 70 XP gain is intended? This is going to be bot exploited, given one of the rewards for lvl 70 overflow is 30,000 Astral Diamonds.


    At Preview I received 15 x 30.000 RAD on my lvl 70 character and some 30-35 overall openings. The overflow experience showed a negative amount at the start.

    If this is as intended, it's quite huge actually.

    Edit : Just saw now, not as intended. :D
    Superduper Hero Jagannath
    >>>>Best quote 2018 : "Storm Spell can now critically strike"
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 444 Arc User
    Could we get slightly better rewards while we're at it? I mean you dont get that reward very often, and when you do, you get a single black pearl what is frankly insulting.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member Posts: 148 Cryptic Developer
    kreatyve said:

    c3rb3r3 said:


    Exactly, it should stay as it is if the monsters/lvl 70 zone quests xp remain the same. With 100k per level you can gain 5 levels easily in IG, and bots will get rich so easily without any possible punishment (all hail the 15 min kick waiting time)

    Let us know where this is happening as it is most likely a case of needed to adjust the reward on a given skirmish or quest. Grinding through monsters should take players as long as it did before to get an overflow XP reward.
    I believe they said it was happening in Illusionist's Gambit. "IG".
    Yes, I did get that part :smile: , it was more a statement of let us know any places they come across where it seems like the rate of XP progress seems higher than normal.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 634 Arc User

    Could we get slightly better rewards while we're at it? I mean you dont get that reward very often, and when you do, you get a single black pearl what is frankly insulting.

    Yes, offtopic, but I absolutely agree! It's not that I focus on the overflowed exp, It's just a proposition, but for instance a chance to receive the Companion Upgrade token for the overflow experience. A nice addition, and a great token of the good will for the future of the game.

    If possible, it would be absolutely amazing. If not, all good anyhow :)
    Superduper Hero Jagannath
    >>>>Best quote 2018 : "Storm Spell can now critically strike"
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 438 Arc User

    zerappus said:

    As stated on the original thread,

    Bugs:

    - Level 70 XP overflow reward is infinite/recurring. It keeps giving rewards (not checking if it's really infinite).
    - Level 70 XP gain is too high.

    Are you all sure the lvl 70 XP gain is intended? This is going to be bot exploited, given one of the rewards for lvl 70 overflow is 30,000 Astral Diamonds.


    At Preview I received 15 x 30.000 RAD on my lvl 70 character and some 30-35 overall openings. The overflow experience showed a negative amount at the start.

    If this is as intended, it's quite huge actually.

    Edit : Just saw now, not as intended. :D
    Its really funny when we add features nobody asked for and that don't really help the game at all and there are really bad unintended consequences

    Kinda makes you think, right?
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,215 Arc User
    edited January 14
    they were probably not selling enough xp boosters in the zen store so they figured meh why not reduce player xp needed then
    instead of charging to level ..

    also levelling and effectiveness / vis avis power /armor pen curves etc in pvp domination 60-70 was never really even smooth too since the stat curve changes ..paradoxically you got progressively weaker despite scaling as you levelled reaching up to 70 : D where it finally readjusted itself again ..wonder if this has been fixed or just the xp *shrugs*
  • tiberiusrex#6660 tiberiusrex Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    at this point how many new players are actually entering the game? for alts I don't see the problem with a super easy jump to 70. people need to learn their class but even if they're already 70 if they're undergeared (which a new player will be) it's not going to be a stomp to go back to level 60 and above things. it's only alts that will be able to storm thru things. I personally want my alts to be as geared up as fast as possible. doing the same content in the early levels 90 times is beyond boring. I'd like to be able to just have it done and play the end content on my alts. I think it's absolutely fine to be much much easier.
    aka Cat.

    Imaginary HR Friend.
  • snottysnotty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User
    To be honest, I don't see where it was that hard to go from level 60 to level 70. When mod 6 first came out it was a serious grind but after they made it a bit easier I honestly don't see why it needs to be made any easier. It only makes players have less time to learn how to play the classes.

    I could see making power points easier to get since the RNG isn't always nice to players but other then that I really don't see any problem with the current exp system.
  • kayclo2kayclo2 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    At this moment if a new player joint to the game and enter in a level 20 guild he got an incremental xp boost.
    At level 20 with only 1 random dungeon he has enougth astral diamond to buy 3 rank 7 azure. (36% total bonus)
    with another day of dungeon he can buy 5 green horse and equip them with green (or blue) insignia (10-20% bonus)
    All of this migth appen if a new player have a contact with a old player .
    If is not enought even without this xp boost i think that is too easy to reach lv 70, it seem more usefull to double the experience needed to level 70.
    only in this manner a fresh level 70 player have a really "experience" with his class, enought money and astral diamonds to rank up all the equipment.
  • oronessoroness Member Posts: 376 Arc User
    edited January 15
    kayclo2 said:

    At this moment if a new player joint to the game and enter in a level 20 guild he got an incremental xp boost.
    At level 20 with only 1 random dungeon he has enougth astral diamond to buy 3 rank 7 azure. (36% total bonus)
    with another day of dungeon he can buy 5 green horse and equip them with green (or blue) insignia (10-20% bonus)
    All of this migth appen if a new player have a contact with a old player .
    If is not enought even without this xp boost i think that is too easy to reach lv 70, it seem more usefull to double the experience needed to level 70.
    only in this manner a fresh level 70 player have a really "experience" with his class, enought money and astral diamonds to rank up all the equipment.

    By the time that new player unlocks any difficult dungeon he has to be undergeared for weeks, raising his IL is such a massive grind that just doing those T1 and T2 dungeons and skirmishes and trials will teach him to use his class. If he doesen't learn, what makes you think that he would have learnt spending those weeks as a lowbie with a non finished build doing low level dungeons where you can just onehit bosses?

    Just asking.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I want this class in NW. :o
  • fatninja144477fatninja144477 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I cant see why every one is complaining. While leveling no one truthfully learns there class. For all of the beginning content you can use what ever ability you want. Plus once that person hits 70 they will end up respecing to a correct or main stream build. And I think the change is great the exponential increase in EXP from 60-70 was and is a major deterrent to this game it just plain killed the fun to see the daunting amount of EXP required to get from 60-70. This game is not about getting to 70 it is about the content after 70.
    Valina Darksbane, CW 70
    That Guy You Know, OP 70
    Main, Valora GF 70 14.3k
    That Guy who hastes, DC 70
    Chopper, GWF 70
    Hel, SW 70
    Sora, HR 70
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 49 Arc User
    @preechr#2215

    I start to belive we are palying different game. My guild is made of a mix of very experienced and very green players. None of them have any issues with fast leveling to lvl 70.
    Lets be honest for a while. I have 1 main and 7 alts in total. NONE of my alts never touched any content during leveling up except sleeping dragon bridge- just to enter a PE, and 5 of 7 are already at lvl 70. I do not play them mostly, but due to fact that my main is pretty decent almost BIS toon all of them have equipment form chult hunts/primal set/chult weapon set. All of them was leveled trough invoke/exp books. And that is pretty much how it works for every experienced player.

    For a new player - as few other mentioned above - if such player gona join guild he would most certainly got few advices what to do and how to level faster, no to mention that he probably gona get some enchants etc to make his game easier (rank7 enchants, green/blue horse on so on) and guild boons. In such conditions he needs no more than 2-3 days to hit level 70.
    And all content he is playing due to those boons/help is already a trivial. Just an example - all low level areas were made in times when lvl 7 enchantment was a "big thing" and guild boons were not here.

    If there is a new player who wont join any guild I doubt that its gona take more then 10 days of active play to hit level 70 for him.

    My point is that you are concerned of flooding game with lots of fresh lvl 70s - not geared nor experienced. But lets be honest leveling to 70 is already very very easy for every one. And since hunts/chultan weapons/cheaper enchantments such flood already happened. And what is far more important - even if leveling up would take a month it doeasn matter as it is solo exeprience only. Playing in party demands very differnt play style. Game starts after lvl 70....

    So I dont mind that Cryptic is removing that 60-70 gap. It wont change much. Sure, bots issue can increase, but simple adjustment of kickng form instance for botting gona slove that.

    My only concern is that - if I remember correctly - all those low level maps/story line are great. I made every quest on them (and I doubt that any new player really do the same this days). And Crytpic should think about the way to "revitalize" them again.
    Some hunts maybe? :D
  • kayclo2kayclo2 Member Posts: 2 Arc User

    This game is not about getting to 70 it is about the content after 70.

    Maybe the problem is really this.
    We have tons of beautiful content under level 70 completely unuseful, at this point because don't we reach level 70 with only blacklake quest...
    @oroness
    If you enter in a dungeon with the right level it have a equilibrate level of difficulty(try to play spellplague or karrundax with a lv 55 pg with lv 55 gear and kill a boss with one hit ;) ).
    at lv 70 with green or blue equipment enter in esot or every epic dungeon grant you an ista kill...
    Is that normal?
    if you don't have a guild that support you in quest and campaigns the overall difficulty is harder and with problem of mob balance.
    I've see a lot of player entusiastic in play the 1-60 contents that has left the game because they hit a wall at lv 70.
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