Simple method to allow farming for alts without allowing farming BY alts is to put an item in the game that is bought for ampules. 5 ampules for MH upgrade kit, 3 for OH upgrade kit, or whatever the correct amounts are. The kits are BtA but the ampules remain BtC.
Occurred to me overnight that this would still allow for acceleration so make the purchasable item cost 8 ampules, be BtA and drop BtC kits for MH and OH.
Simple method to allow farming for alts without allowing farming BY alts is to put an item in the game that is bought for ampules. 5 ampules for MH upgrade kit, 3 for OH upgrade kit, or whatever the correct amounts are. The kits are BtA but the ampules remain BtC.
Occurred to me overnight that this would still allow for acceleration so make the purchasable item cost 8 ampules, be BtA and drop BtC kits for MH and OH.
Or only allow access to purchase the BtA "for-Alts" packages after you have crafted a weapon on that character. That way, after each character unlocks a weapon then they can help accelerate any subsequent alts, but nobody gets and edge on the first unlock.
These are both options we were considering actually! We plan to implement some solution to allow you to gear your alts, this will probably be in a post-launch update, but we'd like to aim for the solution to be in before week 8.
Simple method to allow farming for alts without allowing farming BY alts is to put an item in the game that is bought for ampules. 5 ampules for MH upgrade kit, 3 for OH upgrade kit, or whatever the correct amounts are. The kits are BtA but the ampules remain BtC.
Occurred to me overnight that this would still allow for acceleration so make the purchasable item cost 8 ampules, be BtA and drop BtC kits for MH and OH.
Simple method to allow farming for alts without allowing farming BY alts is to put an item in the game that is bought for ampules. 5 ampules for MH upgrade kit, 3 for OH upgrade kit, or whatever the correct amounts are. The kits are BtA but the ampules remain BtC.
Occurred to me overnight that this would still allow for acceleration so make the purchasable item cost 8 ampules, be BtA and drop BtC kits for MH and OH.
Or only allow access to purchase the BtA "for-Alts" packages after you have crafted a weapon on that character. That way, after each character unlocks a weapon then they can help accelerate any subsequent alts, but nobody gets and edge on the first unlock.
These are both options we were considering actually! We plan to implement some solution to allow you to gear your alts, this will probably be in a post-launch update, but we'd like to aim for the solution to be in before week 8.
That's great. I personally think that with how grindy Ultimate ench stones are, we do need a bit of a break, and if we all figure out the little tips and tricks about cradle, we'll be able to be more flexible with group composition.
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus.
One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus.
One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
Well you shouldn't force people to think they must have alts, true, but there should be a bonus for the ones who do - who want more, and are willing to do more. And with the current metas, DPS players will have a hard time getting into groups because people will mostly want supports to survive more easily. And once supports stop doing it, making a run will be hard for us mere DPS mortals.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
I think it's a bigger or more likely issue that folks will be obligated to play their support characters and then not be able to finish the upgrades on their DPS. Much slower overall progression.
> @asterdahl said: > Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or? > > We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus. One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars. > > While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character. > > I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up. > > Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
We already have a list of classes alone that are more desirable. If you don’t want people to be left out cause of that imbalance how does it explain the imbalance of specific classes?
[...]I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.[...]
From my point of view now we (players) are getting two distinct messages, on one hand we have @asterdahl stating that they don't want to make players feel like they need to have trial ready alters to be competitive with other players. On the other hand we have a new Zen pack that let players enter the trial one week in advance, so this Zen Pack makes you feel that you must buy it just to do not be left behind.
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus.
One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
Well you shouldn't force people to think they must have alts, true, but there should be a bonus for the ones who do - who want more, and are willing to do more. And with the current metas, DPS players will have a hard time getting into groups because people will mostly want supports to survive more easily. And once supports stop doing it, making a run will be hard for us mere DPS mortals.
How is this different than MSVA for the relic weapons? I remember seeing DC for X enchantment / runestone for MSVA. My guess if you DPS want the support players to run with you, be ready to pay if the DCs have completed their runs.
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus.
One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
Well you shouldn't force people to think they must have alts, true, but there should be a bonus for the ones who do - who want more, and are willing to do more. And with the current metas, DPS players will have a hard time getting into groups because people will mostly want supports to survive more easily. And once supports stop doing it, making a run will be hard for us mere DPS mortals.
How is this different than MSVA for the relic weapons? I remember seeing DC for X enchantment / runestone for MSVA. My guess if you DPS want the support players to run with you, be ready to pay if the DCs have completed their runs.
It's different because you dont have to grind currency every HAMSTER week to open 3 chests, each with its own key. That is what made MSVA so toxic. Everything else was fine tbh - it's a fun raid once you take away the immense god damn grind required to actually benefit from it. I mean I'm still using a purple relic offhand because I cba to make it orange.
I just saw a video of 5 man party completing Craddle. I'm shocked. And it's not even live. I know they were some best players out the, yet still - this shouldn't happened. Very disappointed in the quality of content we are getting.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
I just saw a video of 5 man party completing Craddle. I'm shocked. And it's not even live. I know they were some best players out the, yet still - this shouldn't happened. Very disappointed in the quality of content we are getting.
Yes and in tong we see fights like 5 seconds vs orcus( note that shouldnt happen even if a team achieve 100% coordination) imagine now we get more weapon damage more stats and the nerf happened to clerics not even solve 0.01% of the issue.
I just saw a video of 5 man party completing Craddle. I'm shocked. And it's not even live. I know they were some best players out the, yet still - this shouldn't happened. Very disappointed in the quality of content we are getting.
Yes and in tong we see fights like 5 seconds vs orcus( note that shouldnt happen even if a team achieve 100% coordination) imagine now we get more weapon damage more stats and the nerf happened to clerics not even solve 0.01% of the issue.
That fight was with new weapons and stuff. Not all of it, but it won't change much for any average group. And as I said, you can solo TONG or MSVA or really anything with enough res scrolls, and that's how they finished it - by popping about 500 scrolls per minute.
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
Well, if the currency to exalt my weapons is not Bound to Account, what is the incentive for me to even try this trial at all for anything other than the minimum amount of runs necessary? It is supposed to be very challenging (I have not tried it myself, I will take your word for it though) and I learned with the last big 10-person trial, Assault on Svardborg, that the demand for support characters is much higher than the demand for DPS characters. The only way I was able to upgrade the Mod 10 weapons on any of my characters was because I was able to bring my support character into Svardborg and transfer the currency to the rest of my characters. The competition for DPS characters was just so fierce, that I often couldn't find any groups at all for him to get into Svardborg. So if the currency stays Bind to Character, then there is no reason for me to even try to run it on my DPS character, since I learned last time that it is just a waste of time for me to beg and beg to be let in to groups on my DPS character for this trial (with a good chance of failure, since it is so tough). I will just run it on my support character and then I'll be done.
You will get more people playing the content for longer if you let the currency be Bind to Account.
And really @asterdahl - how many people have many multiple alts who are all geared up and ready to try the latest endgame trial, in order to speed up completion on only one of them, vs. how many people have only 1 or 2 main characters with the gear ready for the endgame trial, who would mutually gear each other up via the trial? My impression is that the latter category is much larger than the former category.
I agree with @chemjeff that BtC is, yet again, a bad idea. The argument that someone with 4 cradle ready players could take advantage of the system to speed a character through is a weak one. By this logic, the 1% yet again screw the remaining 99% of average users. When the River District mod came out I was so happy that some currency could be passed on to alts to get them through the campaign faster. And I was equally unhappy when it was revealed that some of the currency was still BtC and would have to be farmed individually. Some classes are just more suited to speed farm for currency than others.
I've known a handful of people that had multiple BiS toons (3+) and they all played the game for about 12-16 hours a day, every day. I would not call that the norm.
The whole BtC issue is just another way to stall progress.
I am not sure if any of this was mentioned before since i haven't read previous feedback.
Companions are falling off the stage in boss phase and phase before where you are supposed to cut those "tentacles" and they get unsummoned and that presents a problem. Even the end game parties dont have it easy without companions, if few members die in the meantime it only makes it harder.
Lag. It is not forgiving in this encounter with such mechanics. It is a precision work without lag and with lag it becomes basically impossible to deal with mechanics. Both pull and push can be delayed and when they kick in it is already too late and you find yourself in free fall.
Once it happened, boss didnt go down to do the pull/push mechanic, he remained up, stopped moving and pull/push phase started. Distance of pull/push mechanic is sometimes unusually big, it can pull or push you far more than usual. Sometimes dodge doesnt work and you get pulled/pushed as if you didnt dodge at all.
The hand which grabs a player mechanic can occur during pull/push phase and it is a direct ticket to after world. It nulifies your dodge or the immunity dodge provides but it loses to pull/push mechanic which pulls you out of it and you are in free fall again. Either make the hand not occurring during pull/push phase or make it win against that mechanic to keep you in place.
Final cut scene, make it skippable, please. Also, make the boss untargetable for few seconds so the players can resummon the companions and change artifacts.
Add more HP to skulls and cubes in elevator, a lot more.
I am in favor of the devs introducing a way to practice for the pull-push mechanic. This trial makes you start over from the beginning of the trial if your group fails at the boss. This means there is 0 time to practice for the push-pull mechanic. Most groups are understanding if you don't get the mechanic on the first few trys but the more times you fail at it, the less patient people will get with you. If you can't get it down within a few trys, many groups will not hesitate to kick you if the rest of the group is more experienced than you.
Now don't get me wrong here, I think the pull-push mechanic is actually a very good addition to this trial. Please don't nerf this mechanic, its fine the way it is and its nice to see a real skill check get implemented in this game. Lots of players asked for harder content because most prior content was too easy and could be burned down whilst totally ignoring the mechanics. Please do not go back on their request just because a few people either don't want a challenge or have yet to learn how to counter this new mechanic.
There are however 2 minor tweaks I would like to see for the pull-push stage. The pull-push mechanic itself should stay as is:
#1) The grasping hand is a death sentence if it grabs you durring the pull-push. No time for your teammates to bust you out, no way to survive it. Making it so the grasping hand doesn't grab you durring the pull-push phase would be a great adjustment.
#2) Fix any outright bugs with the trial.Someone mentioned earlyer that they sometimes don't get the pull-push stage animation. Someone else mentioned that the push outwards might be double its normal length some of the time.
As for lag, it is one of the most crippling and most heavily complained about things in this game. It effects everything you do. I want to see the servers get upgraded to reduce the lag. This is long overdue.
Also, for those of you who have not yet figured out how to survive the pull-push mechanic, here are 2 videos. The first one is a short video that demonstrates the correct way to counter the pull-push mechanic on 4 different classes. The second video goes over the entire trial including the push-pull mechanic:
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
@asterdahl@noworries#8859 Yesterday the companion unsummoning problem went on another level. During the elevator phase companions were disappearing all the time. Summoned it back at least 5 times. Finished the phase of cutting the "tentacles" with companion summoned and after the cut scene faced boss without companion.
The stupid grabbing hand strikes again. Most annoying thing in this trial. Even when pull/push mechanic pulls you out of it you still cant move or dodge until you start falling. Fix this asap.
The delay when going to character select screen is annoying, you can actually get SNR and disconnect and you are punished by the delay. Replace this with 15-20 secs delay to log out.
What is the intention of getting knocked down in the pullphase? Just to prevent the player from absolving the dungeon? At least that´s what happened to me I´d say check your bugs and fix it
Comments
Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
> Also, one offtopic question - what happened to the set bonuses like old gear had? That concept no longer works for you or?
>
> We moved away from set bonuses because we'd like players to be able to mix and match the bonuses they want without feeling like they can't change out a piece for fear of losing that bonus. One piece of logic that seems flawed to me is the idea that by making these items bta it allows players to accelerate the completion of these weapons. Whilst it allows you to complete them faster on a single char, any player who has codg unlocked on multiple chars, probably wants to exalt weapons on multiple chars. So yes, they will complete it on 1 char faster, but take the same amount of time overall to exalt the weapons on all their chars.
>
> While this is true I'm not talking about comparing the average rate of progression across all of a player's cradle-ready characters vs. a player with a single character.
>
> I'm saying we don't want to encourage players to feel like they have to have alts ready to farm this content in order to have their character be competitive in terms of progression. For example, if a player with 4 cradle ready characters could fully upgrade one of their characters in 2 weeks, making them more desirable to group with for 6 weeks while single character accounts catch up.
>
> Obviously depending on your sensibilities, you might not find such a situation to be a problem, but we'd like to avoid progression being accelerated in this way.
We already have a list of classes alone that are more desirable. If you don’t want people to be left out cause of that imbalance how does it explain the imbalance of specific classes?
From my point of view now we (players) are getting two distinct messages, on one hand we have @asterdahl stating that they don't want to make players feel like they need to have trial ready alters to be competitive with other players. On the other hand we have a new Zen pack that let players enter the trial one week in advance, so this Zen Pack makes you feel that you must buy it just to do not be left behind.
You will get more people playing the content for longer if you let the currency be Bind to Account.
I've known a handful of people that had multiple BiS toons (3+) and they all played the game for about 12-16 hours a day, every day. I would not call that the norm.
The whole BtC issue is just another way to stall progress.
Companions are falling off the stage in boss phase and phase before where you are supposed to cut those "tentacles" and they get unsummoned and that presents a problem. Even the end game parties dont have it easy without companions, if few members die in the meantime it only makes it harder.
Lag. It is not forgiving in this encounter with such mechanics. It is a precision work without lag and with lag it becomes basically impossible to deal with mechanics. Both pull and push can be delayed and when they kick in it is already too late and you find yourself in free fall.
Once it happened, boss didnt go down to do the pull/push mechanic, he remained up, stopped moving and pull/push phase started. Distance of pull/push mechanic is sometimes unusually big, it can pull or push you far more than usual. Sometimes dodge doesnt work and you get pulled/pushed as if you didnt dodge at all.
The hand which grabs a player mechanic can occur during pull/push phase and it is a direct ticket to after world. It nulifies your dodge or the immunity dodge provides but it loses to pull/push mechanic which pulls you out of it and you are in free fall again. Either make the hand not occurring during pull/push phase or make it win against that mechanic to keep you in place.
Final cut scene, make it skippable, please. Also, make the boss untargetable for few seconds so the players can resummon the companions and change artifacts.
Add more HP to skulls and cubes in elevator, a lot more.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1238888/cradle-of-the-death-god
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Even when pull/push mechanic pulls you out of it you still cant move or dodge until you start falling. Fix this asap.
The delay when going to character select screen is annoying, you can actually get SNR and disconnect and you are punished by the delay. Replace this with 15-20 secs delay to log out.
Remove cutscene before atropal.
Stop hand from grabbing before pull/push.
I´d say check your bugs and fix it