Mixing random queue players with selected queue ones is annoying

c3rb3r3

Finding the right IG item takes so many runs, and building an IG group still takes time, and they often don't last more than one run, so doing it over and over again takes quite some time.

I know there might be a player base problem, but why are the queues mixed ?

I want to farm items so I select IG queue. But I get 80% of the time bots or players from random queue who just want to farm AD and stop at bronze, therefore wasting my time. This is nonsense.

ianthewizard2012

I can see the issue you mentioned. The same thing probably is happening to regular dungeons, too. Some lower-leveled players might queue for a specific dungeon in order to enjoy the content (exploration, immersion, etc); while higher-leveled players queue randomly just for a speedy "RAD run". Separating both sides from each other could help both sides.

zomak

Separating random queue from public queue would completely go against what the stated purpose of implementing random queue in the first place.

namelesshero347

Even before RQ, many people ran IG just for the fleece. So RQ maybe increased the pool of bronze runners.

You think bronze runners waste your time? Well, I think gold runners waste my time. Since I started having to do IG again because of RQ, I've left more than half my IG runs after the first round because people went for gold. I don't like telling people what to do, but if they go for gold, they are doing it without me.

While it is more effort to form a pre-made, but it is better in the end because you have five players with the same goal who are willing to do multi runs.

c3rb3r3

namelesshero347 said:

Even before RQ, many people ran IG just for the fleece. So RQ maybe increased the pool of bronze runners.

You think bronze runners waste your time? Well, I think gold runners waste my time. Since I started having to do IG again because of RQ, I've left more than half my IG runs after the first round because people went for gold. I don't like telling people what to do, but if they go for gold, they are doing it without me.

While it is more effort to form a pre-made, but it is better in the end because you have five players with the same goal who are willing to do multi runs.

For sure it goes both ways. However you can't really disagree and leave as you would get a 30 min penalty.

ianthewizard2012

zomak#4611 said:

Separating random queue from public queue would completely go against what the stated purpose of implementing random queue in the first place.

The stated purpose was of good intention for sure. Yet high level speedrunners doesn't seem to be helping low level players in the expected way. In the past, we had alt toons armies doing Leadership for RAD; now they are flooding into low level dungeons.

namelesshero347

c3rb3r3 said:

For sure it goes both ways. However you can't really disagree and leave as you would get a 30 min penalty.

I always leave after the first round, bronze or bust. I take it as an opportunity to do something else, like finish my weeklies, DR lairs for SES (prices in AH has gone up three folds in the AH lately, making DR lairs worthwhile to grind), or Chult dailes (which I have been neglecting).

The only people queuing IG should be fleece runners. Gold runners queuing with less than a pre-made group will probably be disappointed, and be holding AD/fleece runners hostage.

c3rb3r3

namelesshero347 said:

c3rb3r3 said:

For sure it goes both ways. However you can't really disagree and leave as you would get a 30 min penalty.

I always leave after the first round, bronze or bust. I take it as an opportunity to do something else, like finish my weeklies, DR lairs for SES (prices in AH has gone up three folds in the AH lately, making DR lairs worthwhile to grind), or Chult dailes (which I have been neglecting).

The only people queuing IG should be fleece runners. Gold runners queuing with less than a pre-made group will probably be disappointed, and be holding AD/fleece runners hostage.

I have done 180+ gold runs, yet only one +4 I wanted, 2 left. I can't afford to wait 20 minutes to form a group for each run or at best, 2.

mushellka

c3rb3r3 said:

I have done 180+ gold runs, yet only one +4 I wanted, 2 left. I can't afford to wait 20 minutes to form a group for each run or at best, 2.

But WE must have to afford a 30-minute loss?

I have 7 characters. I try to do skirm + dung on every alt per day. I dont want to waste time (about 30 minutes) whenever I go to IG, because it happens 3 to 4 times a day. Its often the case that ppl want to go for gold even though I'm the only one in pt, that deals damage. It is not nice, when I'm forced go to gold or leave the que and receive a penalty.
In my opinion, gold runners should be excluded from random que.

matthattr

...and don't let those smelly gold runners drink from our water fountains, use our bathrooms, sit at our lunch counters, sit in the front of the bus. Most especially not date or even look at our daughters! If they won't stay out of "our" IG we may have to consider burning crosses and lynchings....quite simply we can't let such low peoples mix with decent folks like us.

odnnauq

@matthattr Love your comments but I think this is the problem. Trying to force two groups with very different motivations to work together. And the incentive is bad too. Cryptic should give more RAD for gold and standard rad for bronze. Then the rad farmers would be motivated to do gold while you can still farm companion gears. But making someone do something they do not want to do for longer period of time without extra incentive will not work.

mushellka

Truth.
The random que is broken. I get the same skirm/dung on 3-4 alts.
I have gears for companions, I dont need it. I havent any reason to go gold and lose 1.5h-2h. Especially that drop is sucked. Today Ive got 4 rare items, so bad that it was impossible to put them on ah.
I try not to leave the que, but sometimes I'm tired ... I'm fed up.
I have nothing against gold runners, but our goals are divergent.
Unluckily the game does not offer too many earning opportunities.
Its bad the same for you and for me.


(and please forgive my English )

minotaur2857

I go gold if the group is good enough to do it quickly, otherwise bronze. Gold can be faster than PoM or ToDG (I always seem to get no DPS and all 7K or less in ToDG) or are all of you above the irritating HAMSTERS that DC at the campfire if that's what you get ?

mushellka

My buddy sent me a screen from IG today.
Skirmish from random que

They went for gold, it lasted 46 minutes.
--- OMG! ---

bodini72

Most of the IG runs I get stuck in, I end up doing more DPS then the entire group combined, then they all seem to think it's ok to go for gold. When that happens I unsummon my companion and do no DPS at all..People die repeatedly and the next phase takes a longer time. Most of the time the group gets the very not so subtle hint and we leave, but sometimes the group decides to be stubborn and stays in which I continue to do nothing. Those runs usually suck for the other players that were expecting and essentially demanding others carry them. You want to go for gold? More power to you, don't expect and demand others to follow you in a pug group (you are being very selfish). Form a group where all 5 players WANT TO GO FOR GOLD and farm as long as you like.

marv700

mushellka said:

c3rb3r3 said:

I have done 180+ gold runs, yet only one +4 I wanted, 2 left. I can't afford to wait 20 minutes to form a group for each run or at best, 2.

But WE must have to afford a 30-minute loss?

I have 7 characters. I try to do skirm + dung on every alt per day. I dont want to waste time (about 30 minutes) whenever I go to IG, because it happens 3 to 4 times a day. Its often the case that ppl want to go for gold even though I'm the only one in pt, that deals damage. It is not nice, when I'm forced go to gold or leave the que and receive a penalty.
In my opinion, gold runners should be excluded from random que.

It sounds like you aren't happy with the IG mechanics. That is a different issue.

mushellka

I am dissatisfied with random que mechanics, not the IG itself. It seems to me that there should be real randomness in the selection of skirmishes and dungs, which is apparently lacking.
The fact that gold runners are related to random que makes it even more difficult.
The discrepancy of goals is the cause of our issue.
Random runners want to do IG as soon as possible, vote for bronze, gold runners want to go for gold. Dont you see any contradictions here?
For that reason, everyone is getting angry.

greywynd

Really? Mechanics are to get instances that don't have a full party to pop. You get people queuing up for IG. Random queue fills the holes so that it will.

thefiresidecat

if the majority votes for gold then the group wants to do gold. lol. if the majority votes bronze then they wanted to do bronze. if you enter a random q you know what you're signing up for. that means if they go gold you're signing up for gold. if they go bronze that's what you're signing up for. If you're the highest dps then you're signing up to do a lot of dps. it's random. stuff might happen. being a jerk is being a jerk.. going with the flow is what random is about. if you don't like it YOU should form a premade group. Just because you want the ad doesn't mean that others OWE you do it your way. it's majority rules.

mushellka

As I understand, this mechanics consists in filling holes with random players. They are waiting for the IG, and me (from random que) adds to their instance. I cant believe that the entire server wants go to terrible POM, TODG and IG over and over again, and nobody likes nice Master of the Hunt and Dread Legion. Astounding ...

thefiresidecat

people do master of the hunt and dread legion all the time. they offer excellent rewards (wayyyyy better than ig if all you're doing is bronze) and they are four minutes. mixing the q just means that instances get filled that wouldn't otherwise because the player base is so stretched out. I think it makes perfect sense. basically you make the choice if you're going to random q or q for what you want. in reality the ad you get just for playing is balls compared to the possible salable items from just queing what you want to play and hoping to sell it later on.

greywynd

That's an interesting take on it. 9 characters ran random skirmishes yesterday; 2 IG (one of which I left before it started), 2 Throne, 1 PoM, 2 MotH, and 2 DL.

thefiresidecat

i get that random q is annoying. daily ad shouldn't ride on it. I'd really like the idea if it were implemented better. it's got a lot of faults though. but I do see why they need to do it. they keep pissing off their player base and as a super old game they're not exactly getting hoards of new people to replace the leavers anymore so they have to do what they can to keep it moving. at this point they really need to release neverwinter 2. even if all they're doing is releasing the same world and a little new content on top of what was there already lol. this game is in a slow death spiral.

mushellka

Apparently I have bad luck
Yesterday, 7 characters: 2x PoM, 2x IG, 1x Throne, 2x DL.
My brother had even worse. 3 characters, he got 1x IG, 2x PoM.
At the last he left and after finishing the penalty, he tried again and got ... PoM.
Horror.

c3rb3r3

> @malheur2080 said:
> In epic dungeons, i never met so many players with green lv. 70 and unleveled artifact gear without any set bonus before the changes. This is always a 30 min penalty for me, beacuse other way it would take over an hour in cn. And if i get twice such a team, i call it a day before i have to smoke a whole package cigarettes to calm down.

And when you see a bot or a damn farmer who goes bronze, you can't even kick them, it takes 15 minutes or he is the only one with the lead (only one who can propose a kick), so you can just see a bot just casually afking and you cannot do anything about it because HEY, you have to take a 30 min penalty for his sake ! great !

ianthewizard2012

Yesterday, I ran a random dungeon with another high level class and a low level GWF. The dungeon was Cragmire Crypts.

I was aware that low level GWF tried to contribute in killing mobs. He even used Mighty Leap to try to reach mobs faster. So I dealt less damage in order to leave more mobs to him.

But another high level class apparently didn't bother. She used lighting enchantment so nearly all groups of mobs died in 1 or 2 seconds.

That low level GWF probably was like: "What the heck??? Am I supposed to just follow them and do nothing?" I felt sorry for him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ecrana

There are some hilarious interpretations of the word selfish in this thread. Complaining that someone is running content for gold is selfish in it's own right. I am, by my own admission, selfish with my gaming time and refuse to waste it carrying people through content they should not be in. Anyone queueing with the knowledge they might end up in IG has to accept that they might end up in a group that's going for gold.

Accept it, form a group or don't queue it. Unfortunately, this is the situation the dev's have created and we have to live with it or boycott it. And no, I will not now, nor ever, be using the random queues and I will not carry random pugs through things like IG due to the stupid penalty system.

matthattr

ecrana#2080 said:

There are some hilarious interpretations of the word selfish in this thread. Complaining that someone is running content for gold is selfish in it's own right. I am, by my own admission, selfish with my gaming time and refuse to waste it carrying people through content they should not be in. Anyone queueing with the knowledge they might end up in IG has to accept that they might end up in a group that's going for gold.

Accept it, form a group or don't queue it. Unfortunately, this is the situation the dev's have created and we have to live with it or boycott it. And no, I will not now, nor ever, be using the random queues and I will not carry random pugs through things like IG due to the stupid penalty system.

LOL I totally agree..I love the definitions of "selfish" as well!
5 people que up on RQ that is by it design a PUG. (if they don't want a PUG "wasting their time" don't que RQ people!) yes I know they don't want to bother dealing with others for longer than they must to get to the AD....but that's the "M" and "P" in MMORP isn't it? People feel other under geared, inexperienced, low dps classed etc. players are hampering them and their speed to the AD....hmm folks do you scream at deaf people, trip blind people, steal crutches/wheelchairs from mobile impaired people as well? Maybe you kick dogs and steal binkies from infants as well.....gaawleee!

You are 1..(one) solo, single, uno, mono 1 unit of 5 people, 4 people are "selfish" because YOU don't want to do what THEY are doing. Take your ball and go home whiny brats...jeez. I'm out dpsing the rest of the group and I don't want to stay so I'll go on strike, call my companion back, not participate, hold my breath, stamp my feet, pout...good job! YOU aren't selfish it's the OTHER 4 players that are selfish! *rolls eyes*

Yes, RQ forces a PUG and that sucks for speed runners getting to their AD that they have to deal with other players. I hate paying taxes. standing in lines and listening to inane conversations about fluff and twattle. But it's reality, it is what it is, we DO have to deal with others that we may not like, we do have to stand in lines, pay taxes etc... it's life, get over yourselves!

namelesshero347

Ultimately, we are all "selfish" because we do things that are first in our interest. I always leave IG gold runs. I just leave and don't make a stink over it. I'll queue up my next toon and if I get Master or Dread Legion, I will be done before the gold run is even half way thru.

The other day, someone in IG asked about gold. I told the group they should do what they want, but I am leaving after the first round regardless. I was then told to HAMSTER my self because they queue with three people going for gold. I don't know why that person was so nasty. He already had the voting rigged. He probably intended to hold one or two people hostage to go for gold and hadn't anticipated me leaving. And now their gold run will take much longer since I was paingiver LOL

marv700

This is what happens when the developers goals don't match with player goals.

All the developers cared about is queues firing faster. Doesn't matter if they are successful runs (FBI/MSP on epic queue for example almost always fail) just that they fire faster.

So by their measure of success RQs are a stroke of genius. To the players it's a complete fail.

What I would have done is given good rewards for folks running the other content such that they would queue up for it. Clearly what the devs believe are good rewards and what the players believe are far apart. For instance if you run Heroes Accord you get 2500 refinement, if there is a tank or healer bonus it's 1000AD. What I would have done is give out a HA token. 7 tokens gets you an ultimate enchanting stone (account bound). 4 gets you a coalescent ward. Then I would subject myself to that.

That is not even close to motivating me to subject myself to such content. They just don't have a clue.