Problem in pvp is and always will be gs

pindaop

Its simple.
Low gs players are paired up against mostly high gs players and
that results in countless bad matches.
Even if you have 15 gs most games will be ruined, same as for 9 gs.
So why spend time grinding or buying zen,
when the result is always the same, HAMSTER pvp for everyone.


So how about letting people play with similar gs .
So low gs people and high gs people can have fun.



Keep in mind lvl 60 pvp is dead ,no new players are coming, just look at the matches played.
Nothing to lose at this point.

darthtzarr

pindaop said:

... gs ...

pindaop said:

... lvl 60 pvp is dead ...

Which module are you playing in?

nerfcc

11k and down should be a bracket and then everyone above that in their own bracket. Or something like that. But I agree wholeheartedly it only takes one 5,6,7,8,9,10 k pug to ruin what would've been a great match. HAMSTER wait times I'd rather wait for a good game then quit half way through a bad one because it's not competitive.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

pindaop

etelgrin said:

pindaop said:

So why spend time grinding or buying zen
HAMSTER

So its simple, so that you won't get rekt

On serious side in mod 1 there were so many farming bots in pvp ., they go mid and spam one attack.
These were more dangerous then 8 gs people today.
AT least they stand on cap.


I get you tho ,i had my share of 1 shots , but
now i want to play 3 button game that has some balance.

icexnine

I don't think iL would be great as the sole matchmaking variable. So many trash high iL players in my experience, though it would be nice to clear out those 4-7k iL dickweeds wearing blues with like 40-80k hp. The best way to match people would likely be win/loss ratio, BUT... this would never work for this game as the amount of pvp players at any given time is ridiculously small. Just accept this games lack of matchmaking and enjoy it while you can, unless you have a strategy for generating a influx of players interested in pvp.

pindaop

icexnine said:

I don't think iL would be great as the sole matchmaking variable. So many trash high iL players in my experience, though it would be nice to clear out those 4-7k iL dickweeds wearing blues with like 40-80k hp. The best way to match people would likely be win/loss ratio, BUT... this would never work for this game as the amount of pvp players at any given time is ridiculously small. Just accept this games lack of matchmaking and enjoy it while you can, unless you have a strategy for generating a influx of players interested in pvp.

Well i think you are right about this one.

demonmonger

It all depends on what you stack. If you stack mobility for gs then you can be 17kgs but strong as a 9k gs power stacker.

If gear score was to be fixed it would have to be based on class first, then party role, then attributes that give you defense or damage only.

pindaop

demonmonger said:

It all depends on what you stack. If you stack mobility for gs then you can be 17kgs but strong as a 9k gs power stacker.



If gear score was to be fixed it would have to be based on class first, then party role, then attributes that give you defense or damage only.

Ok , but what about letting people chose in which IL they want to be before pvp starts.
Like to fill out min max IL of their liking.

pindaop

pindaop said:

demonmonger said:

It all depends on what you stack. If you stack mobility for gs then you can be 17kgs but strong as a 9k gs power stacker.



If gear score was to be fixed it would have to be based on class first, then party role, then attributes that give you defense or damage only.

Ok , but what about letting people chose in which IL they want to be before pvp starts.
Like to fill out min max IL of their liking.

LOL dont bother answering this , bad idea

wintersmoke

pindaop said:

pindaop said:

demonmonger said:

It all depends on what you stack. If you stack mobility for gs then you can be 17kgs but strong as a 9k gs power stacker.



If gear score was to be fixed it would have to be based on class first, then party role, then attributes that give you defense or damage only.

Ok , but what about letting people chose in which IL they want to be before pvp starts.
Like to fill out min max IL of their liking.

LOL dont bother answering this , bad idea

Looks like someone suffered from a bout of premature communication.

demonmonger

There was a time when pvp was matched by gear score... people would just swap items to be low score and switch back once they were in the battle zone

nerfcc

I know a lot of the pvp population on Xbox and I don't think I know anyone who would do something like taking out their movement and maybe defensive enchants to go troll scrubs. Alas bracketing by item level is obviously very exploitable but at least maxed pvp players wouldn't have their games ruined by low IL players. Also low item players would get better games and MAYBE the occasional troll in their games. Overall I think it would definitely be a better pvp experience for all item levels.

demonmonger

Pc has a troll ratio of 2/5 troll/player

trgluestickz

The way PVP is right now, there is too much powercreep period and this reduces the quality of gameplay even for max geared players going against other max geared players. A better solution would be to add up to date diminishing returns for stats in PVP and reduce how potent some items are in PVP. There is also an argument to be made for toggling off certain types of gear and all PVE boons in public que PVP and giving que leaders a gear/boon toggle on/off option for private que PVP. Bracketing may be better than what we have now but I am concerned about some of the flaws that bracketing will come with.

The PVP population is currently very low. Bracketing PVP may result in public ques not firing enough. Private queing will still be viable but I'm worried it will cause all PVP types to reflect guantlgrym's current state. Guantlgrym has pretty much no pug queing right now and only a limited amount of people private que for it. However, there is also a possibility that bracketing PVP will attract a lot of new players and this could ease the problems with lower que pop rates at least to some degree. I dunno if it would be enough though.

There is also the possibility Cryptic will do a bad job bracketing PVP and won't come back to fix it later. A badly implemented item level bracket could fail altogether at its job. As @demonmonger pointed out, an item level bracket used to be a thing in the past but it was flawed in that max geared players could just put all of their gear back on once they were on the PVP map. There would need to be safeguards against this and I'm not sure what to suggest. There is also other possible issues that could spring up like Cryptic not choosing sensible bracket categories.

Another issue is that item level is not always accurate and bracketing solely based on item level will result in players who are stronger or weaker than their IL implies slipping through the cracks. However, this is unlikely to be common enough or severe enough to counter the benefits of bracketing by item level. It's worth considering adding additional matchmaking factors to the mix instead of only bracketing by item level but item level only bracketing could turn out decent as well. Other factors like kills/deaths ratio or win/loss ratio are also not without their flaws. You can easily farm kills and if you always que in a premade, you will naturally get more wins and fewer deaths than a player who always ques solo.

I don't have an issue with the concept itself of 1 player having more gear than another. However, I do have a problem with the extreme that neverwinter has taken this to. Being "heavily geared" in this game doesn't just mean you have a strong advantage over a fresh level 70, it means you are basically a god compared to a fresh level 70. Bracketing PVP would reduce the problems with heavily geared players being pitted againt low geared players.

Bracketing level 70 PVP would not protect new players from veteran players though and honestly, that's ok with me. If veteran players want to deliberately lower their item level to fight lowbie players, that is a much less serious issue than god level max geared players going against defenseless lowbies. If bracketing becomes a thing, then the newer players should still be able to win against veteran players wearing similar gear if they are skilled enough to earn that victory.

As for the fact that item level bracketing would not keep unskilled max geared players from going against skilled max geared players, honestly, that is also fine. If you are physically capable of winning the fight but fail anyway, that's on you and its on you to get better so you can fight just as good as your more skilled kin.

kalina311

@trgluestickz
the devs made few changes for mod 12b (the pvp mod coined by them) left us hanging and not even a high dude such as yourself can provoke any reply ...that is how we know its all over ...

what he said and the fact that different classes perform better at lower item levels then others ....also a flaw in the item level bracketing system ..


you gonna tell me a some tr or to a lesser degree a gf pally... (added for marnivals sake lol ) at 10k is equal to a warlock or a cleric hr at 10k and i will eat my hamster

you cannot bracket by item level unless classes themselves are balanced .

marnival

you gonna tell me a some tr gf pally at 10k is equal to a warlock or a cleric hr at 10k and i will eat my hampster
You show me a Tr in the 10IL bracket that is equal to any class I will eat my hampster .....

As of now pvp is more or less dead tnx to the redicules domination of the Trs. Not a single top Hr is left they all left 100% of all top HR that used to pvp is gone, in a single mod they whiped away more or less 100% of a class.

The Tr issue has been taken up in 100nds post during mounth after mounth and devs do absolutly nothing.
The initial changes and the effort the devs put in turned out to be nothing as they do not follow up with broken classes.

If they do nothing to correct this comming mod there will be nobody left to pvp but a couple of no skill kids that thinks they are good playing a godly broken class...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

pindaop

I know many complain against tr or some other class and thats fine but it goes no were, devs nerf , other class gets better, been there hundreds of times.
The real problem is gear balance in pvp.
There is 4k people playing against 15k ones.
5,6k difference from highest to lowest is average in every match

pindaop

kalina311 said:

@trgluestickz
the devs made few changes for mod 12b (the pvp mod coined by them) left us hanging and not even a high dude such as yourself can provoke any reply ...that is how we know its all over ...

what he said and the fact that different classes perform better at lower item levels then others ....also a flaw in the item level bracketing system ..


you gonna tell me a some tr or to a lesser degree a gf pally... (added for marnivals sake lol ) at 10k is equal to a warlock or a cleric hr at 10k and i will eat my hamster

you cannot bracket by item level unless classes themselves are balanced .

How can you tell the classes are balanced.
No way to tell for sure, someone will always complain, im sure from 12 mods some mod was decently balanced by classes with same gear , many top pvp players stated that.
But still no one was happy about it.


I think only way pvp can work is like first few mods ,way less item lvl difference,
more people will join and try it out some will stick to it, and maybe some return to play casually.

plavia

there is decent matchmaking now, i don't think it only looks at GS.
usually i lose 2-3 times and end up in low GS match.

the probelm is not GS matching.
the problem is that high GS player will eliminate the all other team with no chalange at all.
every solo match now its same story. 1 or 2 players with 20+ kills and rest are cannon fodders.

don't get me wrong, mode 12b is huge improvment
(in the past bis player could go AFK, take smoke break and come back with triple kills using frozen reflection alone)

bis 15K player should be twice stronger compare to 10K player, not 100 times

sundance777

I think a simple two stage IL bracket would help the overall situation. Of course it would need to be done in a way to prevent 16K players from dropping down to the lower bracket for Queue and then gearing back up.

There are people that are interested in trying to play this part of the game, that simply cannot hang with 16K BiS PvP characters.

We can say that smashing the 10K's is motivation for them to gear up but in reality it only discourages most of them, or they stop playing pvp until 'later', but for most players that takes a long time to catch up, and by the time they get to 16K they will need 20K to compete.

I see class balance as a separate issue, and of course no PvP discussion can be complete without calling for the TR nerf...again...

marnival

sundance777 said:

I think a simple two stage IL bracket would help the overall situation. Of course it would need to be done in a way to prevent 16K players from dropping down to the lower bracket for Queue and then gearing back up.

There are people that are interested in trying to play this part of the game, that simply cannot hang with 16K BiS PvP characters.

We can say that smashing the 10K's is motivation for them to gear up but in reality it only discourages most of them, or they stop playing pvp until 'later', but for most players that takes a long time to catch up, and by the time they get to 16K they will need 20K to compete.

I see class balance as a separate issue, and of course no PvP discussion can be complete without calling for the TR nerf...again...

Yea well when a class goes way beyond 1000/1 in kill/death ratio it might be more of a balance issue then a nerf if you do not see that something is seriously wrong when this happens you either do not pvp or do want to see the issue......

jonkoca

On the HR end, this mod:

Combat, with the nerf to self healing and piercing blades, combat HRs have no survival, and can't do enough damage to kill someone before they're killed.

Trapper, initial cc is stronger, but again, even less survival, no damage, get killed as soon as cc wears off.

Archer, great burst but again, not enough to kill before they're killed, and can't contest a node because they need distance. Zero survival at close range.

All trees suffer the same high vulnerability to cc., because HRs, despite asking for it for years... have no cc breaker. Our dodge remains the worst in the game, not to mention incredibly bad base mobility.

Trapper and archer are okay as support, but with solo q at the moment, this isn't possible as teams very very seldom know how to act as teams.

aixis2000

To the GF 2 posts above(@m...ival)...yes u hate Tr. but on top ur all that what makes pvp unpleasant. 2 days ago by accident my Tr killed u in a match. After that u had to insulting me with pm´s. and after u managed to kill me u had nothing better to do than corpse jumping. I think guys like u be much more a problem of pvp than anything else.
And to be honest there are only a handful Tr out there which are really deadly but the same can u say for all classes...HR is maybe something different right now.
I would really like to see a rainbow match with all the top dogs (best of their classes) to show us how much ahead is the Tr.

icexnine

whats wrong with hr dmg? Piercing was nerfed in mod 12. No dmg nerf in 12b right?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

kalina311

@pindaop


you can tell classes are balanced when there is an equal representation on the leader board and reasonable kill to death ratios/representation for all depending on viable class path /paragon role

Further grouped in knowing a player items level and guild / player reputation

also If the leader board were sorted by class better like the neverwinter combat league did

also like you said in how it was in earlier mods

Players on xbox and ps4((at least the ones that read the forums) that are a mod behind dont have the "feel" yet for how the classes really are in PVP rather are told how pc players "say" they are and are indignant until they see /feel new Cc mechanics for themselves ..or play a class that is not negativity affected and are clearly biased

this also effects the devs seamingly sitting back and waiting/ and not commenting on pvp cc changes etc .. to see what happens to pvp on consoles and how player react /give feedback / come up with creative builds...also with mod 13 fixes looming changing the pvp landscape again

some console players in this very forum are thinking that 500-1 and 1000-1 tr pvp kill to death ratios are made up and exaggerated (cause they are in a different mod or chose to be contrary for the sake of it) and say that players are trolling making such "claims" despite screen shot leader board proof

marnival

aixis2000 said:

To the GF 2 posts above(@m...ival)...yes u hate Tr. but on top ur all that what makes pvp unpleasant. 2 days ago by accident my Tr killed u in a match. After that u had to insulting me with pm´s. and after u managed to kill me u had nothing better to do than corpse jumping. I think guys like u be much more a problem of pvp than anything else.
And to be honest there are only a handful Tr out there which are really deadly but the same can u say for all classes...HR is maybe something different right now.
I would really like to see a rainbow match with all the top dogs (best of their classes) to show us how much ahead is the Tr.

We all are dead tired of bb+sod perma HAMSTER builds in pvp from a utterly broken class.

But sure put 2 top gf against a top tr then put 2 top tr against top gf and see what happens do that with all classes and we can see how it summons up in class balance.

Tr is HAMSTER broken in such a way it today has best defence nothing can even come close to the survivability of the Tr class, best cc with best aoe cc in the game and to top it lets add the best damage which not only are unresistable but nowdays ignore all defences even dodges and immunity it has gone beyond stupid.

2500 +kills 16 death and the list goes on etc in single q system are you even trying to bullsh-t your way out of this....

demonmonger

> @marnival said:
> To the GF 2 posts above(@m...ival)...yes u hate Tr. but on top ur all that what makes pvp unpleasant. 2 days ago by accident my Tr killed u in a match. After that u had to insulting me with pm´s. and after u managed to kill me u had nothing better to do than corpse jumping. I think guys like u be much more a problem of pvp than anything else.
> And to be honest there are only a handful Tr out there which are really deadly but the same can u say for all classes...HR is maybe something different right now.
> I would really like to see a rainbow match with all the top dogs (best of their classes) to show us how much ahead is the Tr.
>
> We all are dead tired of bb+sod perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> builds in pvp from a utterly broken class.
>
> But sure put 2 top gf against a top tr then put 2 top tr against top gf and see what happens do that with all classes and we can see how it summons up in class balance.
>
> Tr is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> broken in such a way it today has best defence nothing can even come close to the survivability of the Tr class, best cc with best aoe cc in the game and to top it lets add the best damage which not only are unresistable but nowdays ignore all defences even dodges and immunity it has gone beyond stupid.
>
> 2500 +kills 16 death and the list goes on etc in single q system are you even trying to bullsh-t your way out of this....

You know what we are all tired of.. gf insta death combo.... but how many threads do you see of that huh?

demonmonger

Tr have the ability to kill steal much in pvp, and to stealth and escape. This is why numbers are skewed