Harder version of tong?

isaintify1

Tong is a very fun dungeon and I enjoy it very much, as a 13.6k ilvl player. But I feel like its a bit to easy and needs to be harder. A lot of the time I am not even running with 2xs DCs, and actually the fastest runs are OP/DC/SW/CW/HR. The only real challenge I feel in the dungeon is probably the first boss itself, and the challenge of that fight is to not get bored from it. He has eaten way to many burritos! Anyways a harder version of tong with a higher chance of dropping the Ultimate Enchanting Stones would be pretty good!

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werdandi

isaintify1 said:

Tong is a very fun dungeon and I enjoy it very much, as a 13.6k ilvl player. But I feel like its a bit to easy and needs to be harder. A lot of the time I am not even running with 2xs DCs, and actually the fastest runs are OP/DC/SW/CW/HR. The only real challenge I feel in the dungeon is probably the first boss itself, and the challenge of that fight is to not get bored from it. He has eaten way to many burritos! Anyways a harder version of tong with a higher chance of dropping the Ultimate Enchanting Stones would be pretty good!

Just curious (because "easy and fast" is a matter of perception):
how long were your fastest runs ?
And are you on console (no mod 12b yet)?

adinosii

"easy and fast", well - that depends entirely on the group.

My shortest run (after bonding-stone nerf) was 20 minutes, 24 seconds , but the fastest I have heard of is just over 13 minutes...see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvz8jiv67Y&t=

A harder version with better drops would probably be appreciated by a group like that.

At the other extreme, yesterday I joined a 4/5 group that was stuck at the last boss - we finished it off, and then I saw that they had been struggling for over 4 hours. Ouch! No way a group like that would ever be able to finish a harder version.

werdandi

adinosii said:

"easy and fast", well - that depends entirely on the group.

My shortest run (after bonding-stone nerf) was 20 minutes, 24 seconds , but the fastest I have heard of is just over 13 minutes...see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvz8jiv67Y&t=

A harder version with better drops would probably be appreciated by a group like that.

At the other extreme, yesterday I joined a 4/5 group that was stuck at the last boss - we finished it off, and then I saw that they had been struggling for over 4 hours. Ouch! No way a group like that would ever be able to finish a harder version.

Well my question was for the original poster because easy runs do not have the same meaning for everyone.

Personally, I have been in Tong runs ranging from 20 min to 2h30... Luckily 90% of my runs last less than 30 minutes and I would be mad if I had to stay for a longer duration since I grind this dungeon only for these damn stones... that never show.

If I had to run a harder version of Tong, I will not spend more than 1 hour unless the chance of getting these ELUSIVE ultimate stones was multiplied by 3 or 4 !!!!!

isaintify1

Honestly my post believe it or not was a joke at all the people who want a easier version of the dungeon. Because that in itself is a joke as I do believe the dungeon isn't that difficult. Ive had runs that were 1h 30 and ive had runs that are 20minutes. If you have people who know what they are doing AND know how to play their class then its easy. Yesterday I ran with a cleric and they had know idea what Break the Spirit was. Anyways my joke was satire but I honestly do think that a harder version (or longer) with more chances at ultimate stones would be great. At least have the bosses drop the stone every now and then.

isaintify1

werdandi#8366 said:

isaintify1 said:

Tong is a very fun dungeon and I enjoy it very much, as a 13.6k ilvl player. But I feel like its a bit to easy and needs to be harder. A lot of the time I am not even running with 2xs DCs, and actually the fastest runs are OP/DC/SW/CW/HR. The only real challenge I feel in the dungeon is probably the first boss itself, and the challenge of that fight is to not get bored from it. He has eaten way to many burritos! Anyways a harder version of tong with a higher chance of dropping the Ultimate Enchanting Stones would be pretty good!

Just curious (because "easy and fast" is a matter of perception):
how long were your fastest runs ?
And are you on console (no mod 12b yet)?

I am on PC.

ecrana

isaintify1 said:

Anyways my joke was satire

I found it amusing and knew exactly what you were mocking.

superent666

I´d vote for a BETTER version of tong...it´s sad how they completely messed up the 2nd boss. Totally worth it to completely re-design that one. They try to make players do this ad nauseam so it would only be fair to make it more fun...:P

werdandi

In fact, the Hero Accord could serve the purpose of doing a more challenging Tong.
If there was a better chance of getting good stuff at the end, it could be a motivation to run it with random people.

adinosii

superent666 said:

I´d vote for a BETTER version of tong...it´s sad how they completely messed up the 2nd boss. Totally worth it to completely re-design that one. They try to make players do this ad nauseam so it would only be fair to make it more fun...:P

Messed-up? How?

Seems like a pretty standard "old-style" boss to me - a strong group can just burn him down, completely ignoring the environmental effects, while a weaker group will have to constantly adapt to what is going on.

Quite frankly, it seems just fine to me - and in fact, all the boss fights in ToNG are pretty good as far as I am concerned.

superent666

adinosii said:

superent666 said:

I´d vote for a BETTER version of tong...it´s sad how they completely messed up the 2nd boss. Totally worth it to completely re-design that one. They try to make players do this ad nauseam so it would only be fair to make it more fun...:P

Messed-up? How?

Seems like a pretty standard "old-style" boss to me - a strong group can just burn him down, completely ignoring the environmental effects, while a weaker group will have to constantly adapt to what is going on.

Quite frankly, it seems just fine to me - and in fact, all the boss fights in ToNG are pretty good as far as I am concerned.

Well, I´ve never been in a group weak enough to actually have to use the mechanics and I´ve been
in some really weak groups. The best thing I can say about that boss fight is that it made me laugh the first time...
some serious special effects...lol
But it seems to me the designer had some ideas for that fight and didn´t intend for everyone to just trample
them and suffer through the fight while wishing for sunglasses. I would guess. So that went really wrong.
There´s so few endgame dungeons in this game that it´s really bad not to re-work something like this.

ravenskya

So this dungeon had it's moment last night... I think we saw your "harder version of tong"

We went in and ran it with a group (OP-prot, OP-Dev, DC, GWF, GWF) because that was who was online. We ran it in about 32 minutes, we aren't the types to rush and somewhere in that was phone calls, popcorn making etc.

so the same group queues back in for a second run. NOTHING CHANGED - it took us almost 3 hours

Orcus kept flying away and not coming back
red wasn't showing up in the orcus fight
orbs weren't visible
third boss - couldn't see hands at all we'd here a laugh and everyone would be in the middle looking back and forth until it was too late, then we'd wipe and end up back in the traps with everything respawned.
Over and over and over again.
We were both furious and punch drunk by the time we finally finished the dungeon.

Oh and apparently half of us were seal capped... the seal cap ends with a 2?

rockstargfu

Im curious as to original posters class.
Also i hate everyones mind set of DC DC OP minimum for groups. I Have my smothest runs with 1-2 DC, Tank optional, and 3 dps. The DC DC OP thing is only good if you are communicating and know what needs to be thrown down when and for dps to know so they can burst there debuffs and damage encounters at apropiate times. Which does not happen on consoles in PuGs. Just select elitests who just run with eachother, take full advantage of the dc dc op group

isaintify1

rockstargfu said:

Im curious as to original posters class.

Also i hate everyones mind set of DC DC OP minimum for groups. I Have my smothest runs with 1-2 DC, Tank optional, and 3 dps. The DC DC OP thing is only good if you are communicating and know what needs to be thrown down when and for dps to know so they can burst there debuffs and damage encounters at apropiate times. Which does not happen on consoles in PuGs. Just select elitests who just run with eachother, take full advantage of the dc dc op group

GWF and OP I ran recently a run with a 11.3/13.2/12.8/15.3/12.7 and we completed it in 1h 13m. I do not understand why everyone thinks you need 15k ilvl only + to complete this dungeon.

rjc9000

isaintify1 said:

rockstargfu said:

Im curious as to original posters class.

Also i hate everyones mind set of DC DC OP minimum for groups. I Have my smothest runs with 1-2 DC, Tank optional, and 3 dps. The DC DC OP thing is only good if you are communicating and know what needs to be thrown down when and for dps to know so they can burst there debuffs and damage encounters at apropiate times. Which does not happen on consoles in PuGs. Just select elitests who just run with eachother, take full advantage of the dc dc op group

GWF and OP I ran recently a run with a 11.3/13.2/12.8/15.3/12.7 and we completed it in 1h 13m. I do not understand why everyone thinks you need 15k ilvl only + to complete this dungeon.

Because people are lazy and think epeen level compensates for a lack of skill.

armadeonx

The longest run I've seen so far was 6 hours lol. I logged in in the morning and immediately saw a request for help in guild chat. Two people had quit (or fallen asleep) so me (pally) and one of our better GWFs loaded in to assist.

It took only a few minutes to kill the boss but I couldn't believe it when I checked the board and saw 5hr 59 minutes on the timer

My regular group is 3 support & 2 dps and we generally do ~30 min runs.

adinosii

isaintify1 said:

I do not understand why everyone thinks you need 15k ilvl only + to complete this dungeon.

You don't need 15K+ but there are two issues to consider.

• There is some correlation between IL and experience. More experience means that you probably know better how to best play your class. Sure, there are many exceptions - I know one 12K OP who outperforms most 16K OPs, for example, and I have had the misfortune of running with a 16.2K GWF who was essentially worthless - but as a general rule, higher IL suggests better performance.
  
• Better performance means shorter run times. When I run with a random "high IL" group we usually complete ToNG in around 25 minutes. A "low-IL" group may take an hour or more. That's a big, big difference for people who don't have unlimited time to play.
  

Same applies to the "one DC" vs "two DCs" issue. My shortest run time (after bonding stone nerf) in a 2 DC group is 20 minutes, 24 seconds. My shortest run-time in a single-DC group is 29 minutes.

When the game forces you to farm something, you want to complete it in the shortest possible time.

isaintify1

adinosii said:

isaintify1 said:

I do not understand why everyone thinks you need 15k ilvl only + to complete this dungeon.

You don't need 15K+ but there are two issues to consider.

• There is some correlation between IL and experience. More experience means that you probably know better how to best play your class. Sure, there are many exceptions - I know one 12K OP who outperforms most 16K OPs, for example, and I have had the misfortune of running with a 16.2K GWF who was essentially worthless - but as a general rule, higher IL suggests better performance.
  
• Better performance means shorter run times. When I run with a random "high IL" group we usually complete ToNG in around 25 minutes. A "low-IL" group may take an hour or more. That's a big, big difference for people who don't have unlimited time to play.
  

Same applies to the "one DC" vs "two DCs" issue. My shortest run time (after bonding stone nerf) in a 2 DC group is 20 minutes, 24 seconds. My shortest run-time in a single-DC group is 29 minutes.

When the game forces you to farm something, you want to complete it in the shortest possible time.

Except I see a lot of people with high ilvl, who bought their way to that ilvl. Buying from 3rd party websites.

schietindebux

There is a simple cure for all those, that are bored and in need of more challenge. Stop runnning "cheese-mode-combos", level a class that sucks atm and get your challenge.
Discussing a harder version by running with a setup of 3-4 overrepresented and overpowered classes is no real base to improve this game.

[Pve_Dungeon] LF4M ToNG, x2 DC, OP, GF 15k exp

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