Some of you say sw still can do crazy dps ? Sorry i had to LOL there. The reason why sw can still do "decent" dps is because of the OBC comp and dc/gf/pally buffs. Now take all that away and compare with other striker class and even support class such as GF and pally (LOLOL)... you'll see how big sw are nerfed. Oh btw... are you aware that too many stuff/things are broken af (not working properly) hehe.
I wish i could find a way to get all my money back that i've spend on my sw. This amount of nerfs is unacceptable !!
You talk of a “noncrit OBC build" i guess. I think we talk about different ways to build a warlock in general, crit vs noncrit. I run a 100% crit. The only reason I bought OBC was the fact, that i use PoP to buff. There is no other benefit in my build from OBC except this proc by running PoP. Not sure what percentage it deals, maybe 10%...forgot. Warlocks dps is inferior to most other striker I think, but hard to tell how much. It is a fact that most top WL on PC stopped posting and/or stripped their locks to switch to another class or left the game. That's enough evidence to prove : Warlock is worse in most aspects as a striker, despite what some forummember state. Maybe they simply get out-dps'd by a better player and assume warlock is fine? I think the class is more balanced atm but needs buffs if it wants to compete vs overpowered ones. PVP is dead , so no need to discuss the weakness of the class at this point.
Some players utilize Pop as buff element. Some utilize as debuff + dps. Some utilize as dps, buff and debuff all in one.
And some have gameplay around PoP. Thats mean, when they fight regardless if they are fury or tempatation builds. They try keep enemies within PoP effect area as long they can. And since PoP where unable to land crit, it where 100% assurance to trigger PoP regardless if you have full crit build or not.
So different gameplay lead to different outcome OBC provide. For some OBC nerf lead to 35~40% dmg lose. For some OBC nerf lead to just ~10% dmg lose.
So different gameplay lead to different outcome and eventually different feedback
you maybe Pop provide buffs, but for other players even non templocks, PoP provide Buffs, debuffs + dps. This part mostly depend on players gameplay. So you can hear that for one SW OBC nerf = 30/40% over all dmg lose. For some just ~10% dmg lose. And difference of gameplays lead to different outcomes and eventually different feedback .
As for pvp side, I agree on that by default. Neverwinter online pvp is overbroken..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
The SW no longer more class orient make DPS since mod 11 if you want do DPS with SW its like say i want do DPS with a DC really i dont know why not nerf other clases like GWF for example
After I saw whats coming to SW and after I heard that some guys left arc I've done the same now. I've spent all my enchantments to my guild, deleted NW from my HD and left. Went to ESO again... sorry Arc, no more money from me. Ind'a Nie, 16,5k SW left the boat. Have fun guys and good luck for the future of SW
After I saw whats coming to SW and after I heard that some guys left arc I've done the same now. I've spent all my enchantments to my guild, deleted NW from my HD and left. Went to ESO again... sorry Arc, no more money from me. Ind'a Nie, 16,5k SW left the boat. Have fun guys and good luck for the future of SW
Gl to you. Maybe that´s the only consequent answer. Allready saw lot´s of warlocks vanishing, apart from the rising numbers of DC´s I witness day by day. Boring cryptic, and to some degree selfsdestructive.
bleh even with underperforming powers we still melt any dun hard/fast, i dont know what to say, why play hellbringer and wonder where dps is cause thats what i assume people do, they play SUPPORT paragon and ignore the dps one because it doesnt seem strong hahahahahaha, im sorry but if you push soulbinder in the right direction you dont have to worry about slow runs unless its 4 others in party being new/slow/lag/very bad players, paingiver race context we are not gonna perform well in aoe, some boss fights cause of the duns are simply not designed in our favour, but thats paingiver and no one cares, the important is to be able to do speed runs as a main dps or with another dps without feeling youre getting carried.
bleh even with underperforming powers we still melt any dun hard/fast, i dont know what to say, why play hellbringer and wonder where dps is cause thats what i assume people do, they play SUPPORT paragon and ignore the dps one because it doesnt seem strong hahahahahaha, im sorry but if you push soulbinder in the right direction you dont have to worry about slow runs unless its 4 others in party being new/slow/lag/very bad players, paingiver race context we are not gonna perform well in aoe, some boss fights cause of the duns are simply not designed in our favour, but thats paingiver and no one cares, the important is to be able to do speed runs as a main dps or with another dps without feeling youre getting carried.
I can write an exactly opposite experience, probably because I suck at Soulbindering. I have more or less bis SW, and I love playing offensive support hellbringer fury with some other feats taken, which does great damage and also buffs my allies, my usual comp is GF, OP, myself offensive support, MoF or 2x DCs or we can do it with 1x DC, and a GWF or TR, GF goes as buffer then or conq and I go as buffer. There are ton of possibilities, there is no 1 good way of playing SW but I got to agree if you look for bossmelter build, the SB is what you should pick on boss fights although I think SW HBF performs better pretty much everywhere else, also because tops damage you provide really good damage buff. To me this is SB build is useless, I prefer to be HB fury/support, and help my GF, or TR to melt boss fast while also providing damage and support to my allies, which melts boss far faster than a DPS SW which beside DPS does nothing else. Thats my opinion, I don't have problems if you disagree with it.
only 2 classes ive seen who has more single damage then a sw is a tr/gf, i have yet to see gwf/hr/cw do better(pretty much have all the top ones in pc in friendlist, from what i see from sw as main dps and what i see from them doing as main dps is hardly something to make a fuss over), that aside the soulbinder if you do the kf+bova+hg+tc(using the lightning enchant) you wil see the aoe is fast, well you can say the same for the hb using pop +kf+hg+tc vs big stuff(using lighting), from what i see in good groups there isnt a major dif in speed when you rush through trash between the 2 paragons, but i do agree the hb is better if the support is lazy/slow/laging etc, i also agree if you are with a damage dealer in party who does more you have the option to go support/dps instead of full dps. i was merely just pointing out that as a main dps in party or secondary dps the soulbinder can perform well in any duns(yes you dont need effectiveness bug to perform well clap clap) and yes tong you should always take the red buff if you are exploiting this bug, i have my doubts a tr is that much better in a group with sw vs tr, yes i have done multi tongs with strong trs/gfs, what i see from a strong gf friend(wil not name their names, they are some of the strongest ones you wil find on pc)who ever takes the buff with dc focusing exhiltation on you is always the same gap at orcus its always a 700+ vs 300+ ratio so no in terms of paingiver its not relevent, fbi i have seen those very gfs vs sw with no bug is not a game breaking dif who ever is the dcs husbad wil win with 20/40m gap have not seen higher and doubt i wil see unless someone is slacking or laging etc), in terms of speed runs you sadly have to go do the hb temp to make the gf/tr burst down the bosses/trash harder. again as for vs the trs i should probably run with some of them again to be sure(tong runs that is, i wil not count other duns cause its obvious the tr perform better then any dps class everywhere if its buffed well, if i see the tr with red buff at orcus can do a +800 vs +200 ratio that i do sw vs tr i wil suggest you go support spec and let the tr finish orcus under 30 sec so you can farm the hell out of the dun, if not it i think its sometimes better to stay dps, the boss wil stil melt fast if group is strong enough, i jsut think the sw should go support if the tr is capable of finishing bosses alot faster if its main dps) correct me if im wrong im just human
So you inform us that your SB does good by using Fey+brood+crystal+HG+Scorch ? Yep my HB same as my SB are viable DPS specs, both are competetive in it's broken state, a HB by using Hellish reb+HG on bugged Brood also deal 500++ effectiveness same as scorch does, no huge gap between them. But in the end it's a confirmed bug you talk of, nothing else. Cut your focus DPS by 40%… that's about what the real damage will be like. Maybe use FoP instead Brood and run vs a skilled GF, GWF vor Hunter? In the past I did best results with dread enchant on a Soulbinder.
So you inform us that your SB does good by using Fey+brood+crystal+HG+Scorch ?
Yep my HB same as my SB are viable DPS specs, both are competetive in it's broken state, a HB by using Hellish reb+HG on bugged Brood also deal 500++ effectiveness same as scorch does, no huge gap between them.
But in the end it's a confirmed bug you talk of, nothing else.
Cut your focus DPS by 40%… that's about what the real damage will be like.
Maybe use FoP instead Brood and run vs a skilled GF, GWF vor Hunter?
The problem is, there is no bugged brood, you can hit anything with any comp you may think cause the bug, and the effectiveness will never be any of what you claim. I tried it first time I seen the act with values over 300% but that act log was simply from the past where there were no cap for debuffs, using current mechanics this is not possible but brood got a nice boost that a small ghosts now proc Creeping Death. I use brood as my main daily, many times I was in tong after mod 13 hit on templock and on fury, really, nothing of such is ongoing I don't know where this fake info is coming from.
I checked my logs many times and the effect only occurs in buffruns, the more debuffs the higher my effectiveness from some powers, all tied to that daily, highest numbers are like 530%+ The actlog shows high numbers for: Soul Scorch, Hellish rebuke, Hadar grasp, and all associated Lesser curse and creeping death procs as far as I remember. All other powers act normal and show normal values 200 +/- %, same as warlock is the only class in those runs showing these numbers, nothing from any other class , none. How could that be? I can´t think of any other explanation and am 100% sure that those powers bug out, but I am not aware of how this happens exactly but can tell you eaxctly what to do, saem as Mirajane can , running a warlock that way in a run with my DC same as all other warlocks I met, who claimed to be hdps And that´s what I saw all through mod 12b/12. Solo nothing like that can be found. I could post some actlogs from my next run, did not run dps-lock in mod 13 so far, not sure what warlock will look like, obviously better than before but far away from anything a GF can dish out with the right setup. We can do a run together, you run temp i run HB/SB and we can match that actlogs later?
All in all, there is no first phase Orcus kill from any warlock, doesn´t exist so far... but there are from GF, GWF, that´s hard to denie, right? I also don´t think that a Hellbringer compared to a Soulbinder will show a huge difference in terms of speed. Soulbinder running beside a HB will win that race, that´s true.
Warlock can deal high numbers with one power atm, Killing flame on a near dead mob. But I doubt there are warlocks active atm that can chain 30 mio IBS/hits on a boss in a row like i witnessed myself from a GWF in a random FBI- buffrun -> random: no communication, no perfect setup, nothing like that. OP-DC-DC-GF-GWF, hastening light/flash of light/aura of wisdom = encounter spamming.
The point is, my GF not perfectly equipped at all, talking of suboptimal silverys in offenceslots etc. deals up to 65k base- or encounterdamage with Griffons Wrath at full selfbuffs, that´s 65k x 2.1=136.500 activating Knight`s Challenge, in the end on a dummy up to 600k+ hits My warlock, far better equipped all 13 brutals/Crits, archons etc., deals about 32k basedamage at full selfbuffs with Killing Flame, towards a mob near death 96k, leading to 400k hits on that near dead dummy and poor effects on the lev 73 boss dummy at full health... really poor. Now take into account that a Crystal is THE perfect setup for that GF, unloading his Cascade of Doom at once. My highesthitting encounter is 4 times less effective most of the time, than GF´s ones, -> 32.000 vs 136.500, GF worse equipped ! The moment that boss is near dead I can hit for higher numbers but 75% of the fight I simply succ. I don´t even know what this discussion is about exactly? Warlock top dps, could we be that wrong all the time?
So you inform us that your SB does good by using Fey+brood+crystal+HG+Scorch ?
Yep my HB same as my SB are viable DPS specs, both are competetive in it's broken state, a HB by using Hellish reb+HG on bugged Brood also deal 500++ effectiveness same as scorch does, no huge gap between them.
But in the end it's a confirmed bug you talk of, nothing else.
Cut your focus DPS by 40%… that's about what the real damage will be like.
Maybe use FoP instead Brood and run vs a skilled GF, GWF vor Hunter?
In the past I did best results with dread enchant on a Soulbinder.
honestly im more intersted how you think a hb can finished orcus before the 1st jump like a soulbinder can(i say this cause you say they are simular dps big lol but i might be wrong just human), if it cant i dont see how hb is near competitive but ill take your word for it since im that bored i wil try play the hb dps to see for myself in combat
as far as other duns go you dont see the effectiveness bug, its only tong/craddle, so yes that rotation for sb/hb using brood in tong is bug should get fix, but other duns lol? that kf+hg+ss+brood at boss is way better then any rotation ive tried so far, no i dont think dread is worth it, if you use the aurgement ss does most % of damage overall i wil roll eyes, dread/vorp is only a option when/if the hg wil stop generation sparks on weapon damage enchants. i dont see why anyone would want to trade hadars gasp encounter for bova(cause thats what you have to do if youre gonna use dread/vorp), now think of this bova that has flaws(no need to name them you should already know them) generating sparks is one thing, doing decent encounter damage is something else(even a bonus if you can spam the encounter quickly), there are duns i would agree the bova is better then hg at boss fights, and thats the trash duns t1/t2, not fbi not msp not tong very bad idea unless youre bored or want a challenge cause the bova makes it fun at hati/drufi
So you inform us that your SB does good by using Fey+brood+crystal+HG+Scorch ?
Yep my HB same as my SB are viable DPS specs, both are competetive in it's broken state, a HB by using Hellish reb+HG on bugged Brood also deal 500++ effectiveness same as scorch does, no huge gap between them.
But in the end it's a confirmed bug you talk of, nothing else.
Cut your focus DPS by 40%… that's about what the real damage will be like.
Maybe use FoP instead Brood and run vs a skilled GF, GWF vor Hunter?
In the past I did best results with dread enchant on a Soulbinder.
honestly im more intersted how you think a hb can finished orcus before the 1st jump like a soulbinder can(i say this cause you say they are simular dps big lol but i might be wrong just human), if it cant i dont see how hb is near competitive but ill take your word for it since im that bored i wil try play the hb dps to see for myself in combat
as far as other duns go you dont see the effectiveness bug, its only tong/craddle, so yes that rotation for sb/hb using brood in tong is bug should get fix, but other duns lol? that kf+hg+ss+brood at boss is way better then any rotation ive tried so far, no i dont think dread is worth it, if you use the aurgement ss does most % of damage overall i wil roll eyes, dread/vorp is only a option when/if the hg wil stop generation sparks on weapon damage enchants. i dont see why anyone would want to trade hadars gasp encounter for bova(cause thats what you have to do if youre gonna use dread/vorp), now think of this bova that has flaws(no need to name them you should already know them) generating sparks is one thing, doing decent encounter damage is something else(even a bonus if you can spam the encounter quickly), there are duns i would agree the bova is better then hg at boss fights, and thats the trash duns t1/t2, not fbi not msp not tong very bad idea unless youre bored or want a challenge cause the bova makes it fun at hati/drufi
So far I did not see any prove of that Soulbinder can do a first phase kill at Avatar of Orcus <- @finalfantasyac7 , but maybe I am wrong ? Same as I don´t think that a warlock with a legit setup is able to hold against most striker in this game on a same skillevel/setup, at least in mod 12b. If I do a dps check on a dummy, the dps my Soulbinder deals is mostly on par compared to my Hellbringer (+24% damagebuff+28% debuff), no huge difference. Hellbringer is using, PoP, HR, KF and HG. I don´t get that many occasions to run as 1. dps with a SB setup, but next time will try. Until then you are free to prove all wrong and show a competetive run beside a known GWF or GF? I honestly think a warlock in this game is by no means competetive vs. those classes in terms of focus dps, mod 13 has to show if anything did change about it. About Dread and Bova, yes that only works on static fights and indeed did better results in my case compared to Fey . -> Hati, turtle, also Storvald some others, talking about legit setup, no 550% effectiveness Soul Scorch. You get that 10% debuff and 80% critseverity, since your damage is near 90% encounter damage, my Fey was inferior. Sadly I traded my Dread for an Elven Battle, wich I traded by own fault vs a Frostburn ... I thought it was a "Frost" , my brain had a malfunction...
And, to expand on that argument regarding fey vs dread:
Yes, HG > BoVA in terms of damage and to "secure" sparks generation but, as SS + Warlock's curse > HG + Warlock's Curse and, like you said, most % of damage done is deal from encounters, dread > fey, at least with legit dps.
The way I see it is:
Dread: slightly more powerful SS but you actually have to try to play well.
Just finally went back to dps SB. I have to say I was impressed by the result. A 19 min run in which I had to stop for a minute before every boss to try to remember which powers I had to switch to. One thing I noticed and that I was expecting already was a not so impressive performance on orcus. It was a fast kill, but I'm sure I have seen much faster. Part of it is probably related to how bloody death works. While it's maybe 50% dmg on a gf (have no idea though, I know it turns up as 30 to 40% after the whole dungeon, and it was 20-25% for my sw), it ended up around 30 something for me. But on other bosses, speed was not an issue at all. 2nd boss was certainly among the fastest I've seen. As for Ras nsi I was a little worried about handling souls, but in the end I didn't have to worry at all, because he just didn't have time to summon them before exploding. The thing is, as a single dps the gameplay is quite easy, you can control the rhythym. Things would complicate if running alongside another dps, and I would certainly rather run as hellbringer then, possibly temptation, since at least you help with your buff.
As for fey or dread, before doing these tong runs, I was calculating what the ratio [encounter/(encounter+feyable damage)] had to be for choosing dread over fey. At 100% crit chance and my current 120% severity, I got that the figure had to be around 55%. After the first run without dread, I found my ratio to be around 60%, which indicated that switching to dread would be an upgrade. Then went for dread on the second run. Performance was very similar, but with a slightly slower feeling, which my friends also felt, even before looking at the ACT data.
Switching to dread, I would have expected the [encounter/(encounter+feyable damage)] to increase to about 67%. Turns out it went to about 62% only (will check again as soon as I get home. If it's actually 62% as I recall, it means dread was a decrease in damage). The amount of data is way too low of course to conclude anything and I will run many more tests over the weekend, and also to get used to the play style again. The increased encounter damage from dread might have been offset by lower spark generation resulting in no dps gain. At a first glance, fey felt more comfortable and faster. But either way, the class felt really good as it hasn't felt in a long time.
I know a lot can be improved as I was half asleep when I made the build and did the runs, and afterwards I could barely read the ACT data. Artifact powers weren't changed and I don't even recall what class features I used (could easily have been shadow walk and deadly curse).
Sorry for the poorly presented "data", but I won't go as far as saying "we can be good", but we can certainly be quite decent if we are solo dps. It also probably takes a little more IL than other dps classes to start shining. First thing I would change about the class though is the cast times specially on KF and Soul Scorch.
I will be gathering more data over the weekend and possibly present build suggestions in case anyone is interested.
It all depends on your Critseverity and maybe if or if not another player runs dread. If not your dread spends a 8-10% debuff on top of that Fey. Did anything change in the procrate of AoC in those runs? I did not many runs using ACT but monitored 24% dps done by AOC on my Templock, maybe due to better procs from HG/BoVA/DT , or maybe because I simply never run templock that much.. I also tested SB (Fey) on Orcus and I did not see a significant better outcome in terms of speed , tbh it felt slower. The utility of HB is superior in many cases but I will try more runs. What I thougt lately is using NPNM plus FoE at that boss, since NPN = double impact of that At Will + double damage of Bloody Death by that, the DOT simply does not proc BD. It´s hard to test anything outside a dungeon, since all those dummies are just bugged completely, really annoying
Anyway, my last results in a OP-DC-DC- TR(debuffing ) group showed a far better outcome runnig HB than SB at every encounter. So outside a pretty good stuffed "full buff group" SB is not my choice at no time, only two scenarios are viable I think 1. you are the only dps and the rest deals near nothing but runs a good buff/debuff setup, 2. you run beside a Hellbringer/templock. I allready did pretty fast kills as HB setup also, depends on the group.
I’m A 16K SW and mad that my character has been so nerfed, but……….. It’s a good thing for the game so I can live with it. We had to take a nerf because no other classes were being played due to low DPS output. I understand the Dev’s reasoning. I don’t whine about it. I’m still usually am in the top 2 DPS. Especially when there are only 2 DPS. Lol. I like the fact HR’s CW’s and even (DPS) GF are doing damage now. TR’s still have a ways to go. Anybody who is still complaining should start a new character and transfer your enchantments. I personally will always run my SW as my main regardless of the nerfs. Now it’s a challenge to be top DPS. I love it.
Hmm, I missed this happening.
6 months later, it is rare to see a SW top paingiver. They are brought into dungeons as templocks now.
SWs and CWs are no longer top paingiver as of writing this. We are now primarily used as support classes. GG Cryptic.
It´s not that the class is weak regarding the templock. Running CoDG or Tong as a templock shows this class does a pretty good job atm. The runs are smooth and the buffs are strong, with solid dps and heals on top. I wished PoP would not only be restricted to the group, not sure what temptation capstone is actually about (group/raid/allies?)... forgot. I know that DC´s can buff the hole universe by HG/AA/BoB/WoL/DG/AS/ and so on... so tehre are points to ask for improvements.
In terms of dps the occasions I am reminded that other classes are far above warlocks are pretty rare due to the small number of top GWF/GF. BUt they exist, like yesterday in a random run (DC-DC-Temp-Devo-GF). If I meet those "40 mio+ IBS and GW-guys" I know immidiately what´s missing. Those classes stack tons of selfbuffs to unload them with 2-3 "high-hitting-encounter" (+ At Wills) -> IBS, Griffons Wrath deal 50-80% of their damage on single targets like that. Chainig 40mio GW in a row is not that easy at all, but nothing a warlock can hold against, since his selfbuffs/-debuffs are not that high. One step could be to "unchain" Killing Flame, the only encounter that has a potential to work that way. We do not get a complete rework, never ever, but we might ask for improvements.
It´s not that the class is weak regarding the templock. Running CoDG or Tong as a templock shows this class does a pretty good job atm.
The runs are smooth and the buffs are strong, with solid dps and heals on top.
I wished PoP would not only be restricted to the group, not sure what temptation capstone is actually about (group/raid/allies?)... forgot.
I know that DC´s can buff the hole universe by HG/AA/BoB/WoL/DG/AS/ and so on... so tehre are points to ask for improvements.
In terms of dps the occasions I am reminded that other classes are far above warlocks are pretty rare due to the small number of top GWF/GF. BUt they exist, like yesterday in a random run (DC-DC-Temp-Devo-GF).
If I meet those "40 mio+ IBS and GW-guys" I know immidiately what´s missing.
Those classes stack tons of selfbuffs to unload them with 2-3 "high-hitting-encounter" (+ At Wills) -> IBS, Griffons Wrath deal 50-80% of their damage on single targets like that. Chainig 40mio GW in a row is not that easy at all, but nothing a warlock can hold against, since his selfbuffs/-debuffs are not that high.
One step could be to "unchain" Killing Flame, the only encounter that has a potential to work that way.
We do not get a complete rework, never ever, but we might ask for improvements.
I have been thinking about the current meta, and yes, the self-buffs and to a lesser extent the debuffs are what set the classes apart. Especially when stats are limited in the end-game, and have diminishing returns. The % buffing capability are what sets these classes apart, because the % buffing especially does not have a diminishing return.
Is it right though that classes can hit 40 million hits, even if it takes certain powers and buffing/debuffing to align, when no other class can reach it?
I think the templock improved a lot because it was given these powers and buffing capabilities. But yes, it does not have certain powers or self-buffs to match the examples you provided.
I’m glad that the templock is viable in endgame content so SWs will finally be able to run t9g more regularly, but it’s still a sad state to see what is advertised as a pure dps class have very little dps utility in game when compared to other classes, even GFs. I did a cn run just last night with a bunch of lower il people (I’m 17k, they had a 14k gwf and everyone else was 12k), so I was looking forward to showing off a bit as an end game character and finally being at the top of the dps list instead of the usual limping/begging my way into end game dungeons. Well guess what. The 14k gwf out dps-ed me, by a lot. I even used consumables! It’s just depressing to be so far behind everyone else in dps, when that was the selling point of the SW- damage. Ugh
I’m glad that the templock is viable in endgame content so SWs will finally be able to run t9g more regularly, but it’s still a sad state to see what is advertised as a pure dps class have very little dps utility in game when compared to other classes, even GFs. I did a cn run just last night with a bunch of lower il people (I’m 17k, they had a 14k gwf and everyone else was 12k), so I was looking forward to showing off a bit as an end game character and finally being at the top of the dps list instead of the usual limping/begging my way into end game dungeons. Well guess what. The 14k gwf out dps-ed me, by a lot. I even used consumables! It’s just depressing to be so far behind everyone else in dps, when that was the selling point of the SW- damage. Ugh
They should take a hard look at the performance of the classes - I am pretty sure they have these statistics on their dungeon runs, and equalise the damage of their supposedly striker classes by bumping up the base damage of them. A little tweaks here and there, to make the DPS classes comparable.
During the discussion on the new SW changes for Mod 13, it was stated that this is not a full re-work of the class, just a buff. They know that we need some closer attention (spell cast time...etc.) but that is for a future update.
During the discussion on the new SW changes for Mod 13, it was stated that this is not a full re-work of the class, just a buff. They know that we need some closer attention (spell cast time...etc.) but that is for a future update.
Haha this is so funny. Remember i was the first one started to complain about SW being nerfed to the ground and way underpowered before Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes thread was created and devs started to do something about it. You say it will get better and better in the future ? I'd say me and so many others will stop playing this game in the future ! Soon neverwinter will not be the only #MMO game on ps4 and xboxone (if you know what im talking about.#bdo)
Cryptic should work harder to make things better because there is not much time left !!
During the discussion on the new SW changes for Mod 13, it was stated that this is not a full re-work of the class, just a buff. They know that we need some closer attention (spell cast time...etc.) but that is for a future update.
Haha this is so funny. Remember i was the first one started to complain about SW being nerfed to the ground and way underpowered before Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes thread was created and devs started to do something about it. You say it will get better and better in the future ? I'd say me and so many others will stop playing this game in the future ! Soon neverwinter will not be the only #MMO game on ps4 and xboxone (if you know what im talking about.#bdo)
Cryptic should work harder to make things better because there is not much time left !!
So many threats were written during the last 4 years concerning warlocks problems, lot´s of actual problems last for >3 years now, you are definitely not the first
During the discussion on the new SW changes for Mod 13, it was stated that this is not a full re-work of the class, just a buff. They know that we need some closer attention (spell cast time...etc.) but that is for a future update.
Haha this is so funny. Remember i was the first one started to complain about SW being nerfed to the ground and way underpowered before Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes thread was created and devs started to do something about it. You say it will get better and better in the future ? I'd say me and so many others will stop playing this game in the future ! Soon neverwinter will not be the only #MMO game on ps4 and xboxone (if you know what im talking about.#bdo)
Cryptic should work harder to make things better because there is not much time left !!
So many threats were written during the last 4 years concerning warlocks problems, lot´s of actual problems last for >3 years now, you are definitely not the first
Ok fine.. i wasn't the first one lol. But i see more and more players leaving for another mmo. I care because most of them are pvp players and lately pvp feels kinda more ... dead lol.
Ok fine.. i wasn't the first one lol. But i see more and more players leaving for another mmo. I care because most of them are pvp players and lately pvp feels kinda more... dead lol.
You play PvP in THIS game? Hahahahahaahahahahahaa!
Sorry if it hurt you somewhere, but did you REALLY expect playing PvP from THIS Neverbalancedwinter? As PvP is all about players skill, and that without system balance there isn't any skill, so...
Comments
Sorry i had to LOL there. The reason why sw can still do "decent" dps is because of the OBC comp and dc/gf/pally buffs. Now take all that away and compare with other striker class and even support class such as GF and pally (LOLOL)... you'll see how big sw are nerfed.
Oh btw... are you aware that too many stuff/things are broken af (not working properly) hehe.
I wish i could find a way to get all my money back that i've spend on my sw. This amount of nerfs is unacceptable !!
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
I think we talk about different ways to build a warlock in general, crit vs noncrit.
I run a 100% crit. The only reason I bought OBC was the fact, that i use PoP to buff. There is no other benefit in my build from OBC except this proc by running PoP. Not sure what percentage it deals, maybe 10%...forgot.
Warlocks dps is inferior to most other striker I think, but hard to tell how much.
It is a fact that most top WL on PC stopped posting and/or stripped their locks to switch to another class or left the game. That's enough evidence to prove : Warlock is worse in most aspects as a striker, despite what some forummember state.
Maybe they simply get out-dps'd by a better player and assume warlock is fine?
I think the class is more balanced atm but needs buffs if it wants to compete vs overpowered ones.
PVP is dead , so no need to discuss the weakness of the class at this point.
Some players utilize Pop as buff element.
Some utilize as debuff + dps.
Some utilize as dps, buff and debuff all in one.
And some have gameplay around PoP. Thats mean, when they fight regardless if they are fury or tempatation builds. They try keep enemies within PoP effect area as long they can.
And since PoP where unable to land crit, it where 100% assurance to trigger PoP regardless if you have full crit build or not.
So different gameplay lead to different outcome OBC provide.
For some OBC nerf lead to 35~40% dmg lose.
For some OBC nerf lead to just ~10% dmg lose.
So different gameplay lead to different outcome and eventually different feedback
you maybe Pop provide buffs, but for other players even non templocks, PoP provide Buffs, debuffs + dps. This part mostly depend on players gameplay.
So you can hear that for one SW OBC nerf = 30/40% over all dmg lose. For some just ~10% dmg lose. And difference of gameplays lead to different outcomes and eventually different feedback
As for pvp side, I agree on that by default. Neverwinter online pvp is overbroken..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Ind'a Nie, 16,5k SW left the boat. Have fun guys and good luck for the future of SW
Boring cryptic, and to some degree selfsdestructive.
Yep my HB same as my SB are viable DPS specs, both are competetive in it's broken state, a HB by using Hellish reb+HG on bugged Brood also deal 500++ effectiveness same as scorch does, no huge gap between them.
But in the end it's a confirmed bug you talk of, nothing else.
Cut your focus DPS by 40%… that's about what the real damage will be like.
Maybe use FoP instead Brood and run vs a skilled GF, GWF vor Hunter?
In the past I did best results with dread enchant on a Soulbinder.
The actlog shows high numbers for: Soul Scorch, Hellish rebuke, Hadar grasp, and all associated Lesser curse and creeping death procs as far as I remember.
All other powers act normal and show normal values 200 +/- %, same as warlock is the only class in those runs showing these numbers, nothing from any other class , none. How could that be? I can´t think of any other explanation and am 100% sure that those powers bug out, but I am not aware of how this happens exactly but can tell you eaxctly what to do, saem as Mirajane can , running a warlock that way in a run with my DC same as all other warlocks I met, who claimed to be hdps
And that´s what I saw all through mod 12b/12. Solo nothing like that can be found.
I could post some actlogs from my next run, did not run dps-lock in mod 13 so far, not sure what warlock will look like, obviously better than before but far away from anything a GF can dish out with the right setup.
We can do a run together, you run temp i run HB/SB and we can match that actlogs later?
All in all, there is no first phase Orcus kill from any warlock, doesn´t exist so far... but there are from GF, GWF, that´s hard to denie, right?
I also don´t think that a Hellbringer compared to a Soulbinder will show a huge difference in terms of speed.
Soulbinder running beside a HB will win that race, that´s true.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=mx0lkRv9uT8 TR?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uxkmT11KAHQ GF
https://youtube.com/watch?v=TAiEfWdTWGs GWF
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hu9qRqHb5hI GF
https://youtube.com/watch?v=o2lpkv_XqAw GWF Ras NI
https://www.youtube.com/ empty,to be filled by MiraJane warlock
Warlock can deal high numbers with one power atm, Killing flame on a near dead mob.
But I doubt there are warlocks active atm that can chain 30 mio IBS/hits on a boss in a row like i witnessed myself from a GWF in a random FBI- buffrun -> random: no communication, no perfect setup, nothing like that. OP-DC-DC-GF-GWF, hastening light/flash of light/aura of wisdom = encounter spamming.
The point is, my GF not perfectly equipped at all, talking of suboptimal silverys in offenceslots etc. deals up to 65k base- or encounterdamage with Griffons Wrath at full selfbuffs, that´s 65k x 2.1=136.500 activating Knight`s Challenge, in the end on a dummy up to 600k+ hits
My warlock, far better equipped all 13 brutals/Crits, archons etc., deals about 32k basedamage at full selfbuffs with Killing Flame, towards a mob near death 96k, leading to 400k hits on that near dead dummy and poor effects on the lev 73 boss dummy at full health... really poor.
Now take into account that a Crystal is THE perfect setup for that GF, unloading his Cascade of Doom at once.
My highesthitting encounter is 4 times less effective most of the time, than GF´s ones, -> 32.000 vs 136.500, GF worse equipped !
The moment that boss is near dead I can hit for higher numbers but 75% of the fight I simply succ.
I don´t even know what this discussion is about exactly? Warlock top dps, could we be that wrong all the time?
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
as far as other duns go you dont see the effectiveness bug, its only tong/craddle, so yes that rotation for sb/hb using brood in tong is bug should get fix, but other duns lol? that kf+hg+ss+brood at boss is way better then any rotation ive tried so far, no i dont think dread is worth it, if you use the aurgement ss does most % of damage overall i wil roll eyes, dread/vorp is only a option when/if the hg wil stop generation sparks on weapon damage enchants. i dont see why anyone would want to trade hadars gasp encounter for bova(cause thats what you have to do if youre gonna use dread/vorp), now think of this bova that has flaws(no need to name them you should already know them) generating sparks is one thing, doing decent encounter damage is something else(even a bonus if you can spam the encounter quickly), there are duns i would agree the bova is better then hg at boss fights, and thats the trash duns t1/t2, not fbi not msp not tong very bad idea unless youre bored or want a challenge cause the bova makes it fun at hati/drufi
Same as I don´t think that a warlock with a legit setup is able to hold against most striker in this game on a same skillevel/setup, at least in mod 12b.
If I do a dps check on a dummy, the dps my Soulbinder deals is mostly on par compared to my Hellbringer (+24% damagebuff+28% debuff), no huge difference. Hellbringer is using, PoP, HR, KF and HG.
I don´t get that many occasions to run as 1. dps with a SB setup, but next time will try.
Until then you are free to prove all wrong and show a competetive run beside a known GWF or GF?
I honestly think a warlock in this game is by no means competetive vs. those classes in terms of focus dps, mod 13 has to show if anything did change about it.
About Dread and Bova, yes that only works on static fights and indeed did better results in my case compared to Fey . -> Hati, turtle, also Storvald some others, talking about legit setup, no 550% effectiveness Soul Scorch.
You get that 10% debuff and 80% critseverity, since your damage is near 90% encounter damage, my Fey was inferior. Sadly I traded my Dread for an Elven Battle, wich I traded by own fault vs a Frostburn ... I thought it was a "Frost" , my brain had a malfunction...
And, to expand on that argument regarding fey vs dread:
Yes, HG > BoVA in terms of damage and to "secure" sparks generation but, as SS + Warlock's curse > HG + Warlock's Curse and, like you said, most % of damage done is deal from encounters, dread > fey, at least with legit dps.
The way I see it is:
Dread: slightly more powerful SS but you actually have to try to play well.
Fey: easy mode.
The thing is, as a single dps the gameplay is quite easy, you can control the rhythym. Things would complicate if running alongside another dps, and I would certainly rather run as hellbringer then, possibly temptation, since at least you help with your buff.
As for fey or dread, before doing these tong runs, I was calculating what the ratio [encounter/(encounter+feyable damage)] had to be for choosing dread over fey. At 100% crit chance and my current 120% severity, I got that the figure had to be around 55%. After the first run without dread, I found my ratio to be around 60%, which indicated that switching to dread would be an upgrade. Then went for dread on the second run. Performance was very similar, but with a slightly slower feeling, which my friends also felt, even before looking at the ACT data.
Switching to dread, I would have expected the [encounter/(encounter+feyable damage)] to increase to about 67%. Turns out it went to about 62% only (will check again as soon as I get home. If it's actually 62% as I recall, it means dread was a decrease in damage). The amount of data is way too low of course to conclude anything and I will run many more tests over the weekend, and also to get used to the play style again. The increased encounter damage from dread might have been offset by lower spark generation resulting in no dps gain. At a first glance, fey felt more comfortable and faster. But either way, the class felt really good as it hasn't felt in a long time.
I know a lot can be improved as I was half asleep when I made the build and did the runs, and afterwards I could barely read the ACT data. Artifact powers weren't changed and I don't even recall what class features I used (could easily have been shadow walk and deadly curse).
Sorry for the poorly presented "data", but I won't go as far as saying "we can be good", but we can certainly be quite decent if we are solo dps. It also probably takes a little more IL than other dps classes to start shining. First thing I would change about the class though is the cast times specially on KF and Soul Scorch.
I will be gathering more data over the weekend and possibly present build suggestions in case anyone is interested.
If not your dread spends a 8-10% debuff on top of that Fey.
Did anything change in the procrate of AoC in those runs? I did not many runs using ACT but monitored 24% dps done by AOC on my Templock, maybe due to better procs from HG/BoVA/DT , or maybe because I simply never run templock that much..
I also tested SB (Fey) on Orcus and I did not see a significant better outcome in terms of speed , tbh it felt slower. The utility of HB is superior in many cases but I will try more runs.
What I thougt lately is using NPNM plus FoE at that boss, since NPN = double impact of that At Will + double damage of Bloody Death by that, the DOT simply does not proc BD.
It´s hard to test anything outside a dungeon, since all those dummies are just bugged completely, really annoying
Anyway, my last results in a OP-DC-DC- TR(debuffing
I allready did pretty fast kills as HB setup also, depends on the group.
6 months later, it is rare to see a SW top paingiver. They are brought into dungeons as templocks now.
SWs and CWs are no longer top paingiver as of writing this. We are now primarily used as support classes. GG Cryptic.
The runs are smooth and the buffs are strong, with solid dps and heals on top.
I wished PoP would not only be restricted to the group, not sure what temptation capstone is actually about (group/raid/allies?)... forgot.
I know that DC´s can buff the hole universe by HG/AA/BoB/WoL/DG/AS/ and so on... so tehre are points to ask for improvements.
In terms of dps the occasions I am reminded that other classes are far above warlocks are pretty rare due to the small number of top GWF/GF. BUt they exist, like yesterday in a random run (DC-DC-Temp-Devo-GF).
If I meet those "40 mio+ IBS and GW-guys" I know immidiately what´s missing.
Those classes stack tons of selfbuffs to unload them with 2-3 "high-hitting-encounter" (+ At Wills) -> IBS, Griffons Wrath deal 50-80% of their damage on single targets like that. Chainig 40mio GW in a row is not that easy at all, but nothing a warlock can hold against, since his selfbuffs/-debuffs are not that high.
One step could be to "unchain" Killing Flame, the only encounter that has a potential to work that way.
We do not get a complete rework, never ever, but we might ask for improvements.
Is it right though that classes can hit 40 million hits, even if it takes certain powers and buffing/debuffing to align, when no other class can reach it?
I think the templock improved a lot because it was given these powers and buffing capabilities. But yes, it does not have certain powers or self-buffs to match the examples you provided.
You say it will get better and better in the future ? I'd say me and so many others will stop playing this game in the future !
Soon neverwinter will not be the only #MMO game on ps4 and xboxone (if you know what im talking about.#bdo)
Cryptic should work harder to make things better because there is not much time left !!
#truestory.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/552694/sw-pointless-annoying-slow-class
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1200623/now-that-youre-finally-doing-something-about-mod-6-how-many-more-months-to-correcting-the-sw/p1
So many threats were written during the last 4 years concerning warlocks problems, lot´s of actual problems last for >3 years now, you are definitely not the first
Ok fine.. i wasn't the first one lol. But i see more and more players leaving for another mmo. I care because most of them are pvp players and lately pvp feels kinda more ... dead lol.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Hahahahahaahahahahahaa!
Sorry if it hurt you somewhere, but did you REALLY expect playing PvP from THIS Neverbalancedwinter?
As PvP is all about players skill, and that without system balance there isn't any skill, so...