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Official Feedback Thread: PVP Changes

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  • whitestaruawhitestarua Member Posts: 175 Arc User
    @sgrantdev#8718

    Hey all,

    Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates

    1. Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.

    2. Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.

    3. CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.
    If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.
    What about Shadows of Demise? Is very overpowered atm in pvp.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    Why you add control resist in top of the control resist ?
    You could just put those 4 stacks but without control resistance included and the 4th to be immunity.
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    macjae said:

    Hey all,

    Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates

      Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.
    This sounds good, as long as it is a significant reduction.

    More in general, this phenomenon is in part a byproduct of the fact dailies have possibly become probably too prevalent given all the available boosts to AP gain added over time. HRs were originally launched with the idea that they would be the class that could use their 'dailies' more frequently, but currently they are the only class whose dailies are limited by a cooldown.

    Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.

    It is good that you keep acknowledging this. Certain items have over time proven quite toxic to PVP gameplay, and drains are close to the top of that list.

    CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.

    Do you have any specific additional tweaks currently being processed? It remains a completely excessive overall reduction in CC capability as it stands now.

    More specifically, it is a major concern the way that some powers add stacks and in some cases don't. Repel adds two stacks for some reason (though that could possibly be related to Icy Veins as well). Applying some powers in succession, like Griffon's Wrath or Break the Spirit, only applies one stack.

    One specific test was fairly troubling: An SW ran up to a CW and put some dots on. The procs from the very small pushes from the Severe Reaction feat pretty much instantly provided CC immunity. Not only is that CC extremely minor, the additional stamina regeneration it provides is a crucial survival tool for PVP CWs.

    If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.

    I am looking forward to this. There's a number of things I (and many others) hope you address in some way.

    The Feytouched and Barkshield Enchantments are currently bugged, and need to be addressed. The Feytouched damage boost now doesn't work as it should. Barkshield never wears off.

    If you are going to attempt to make Stronghold Siege somewhat played again, it is crucial that the companion active bonuses were removed. During the original testing of the mode, this was the predominant feedback from players, and one that was listened to -- the mode launched without companion bonuses, but these were added in later, and contributed to making it much worse in nearly every regard. Not only could they potentially be responsible for added lag in many cases, but they also tend not to be balanced around PVP. Many of the companion active bonuses have been and are pretty toxic (though the CC changes will certainly fix some, there will always be more).

    Please consider removing legendary mount active powers from PVP. These add an additional unfair advantage for some players (I have orange mounts, in case anyone wondered). It should be sufficient that the legendary mounts provide greater equip bonuses. Having essentially an additional power to play with is too much. (An alternative would be to add something as a PVP reward that could fill this slot for PVP only.)

    Shadow of Demise needs to be fixed in some way. The way it behaves takes the worst traits of massive piercing damage and adds a dose of inability to avoid the damage in any meaningful way on top of that. It also means that one TR paragon path completely outshines the other two in PVP (the CC immunity stacks will likewise probably provide an additional nerf to Scoundrels on top of that discrepancy). Reducing the effect of SoD against players, but increasing TR encounter damage in general would probably be the right direction to go in; part of the point being that relying more on encounter powers for damage also helps address perma-stealth (which continues to be a thing).

    Life Steal has been the biggest source of self-healing issues in PVP and so far these changes will make it relatively better. It needs to be toned down more than other sources of healing, particularly Endless Consumption and the Everfrost underwear set. In general, the changes to critical hits will create more opportunities for relatively larger hits, which can proc life steal and basically heal someone virtually to full in a single swing if they hit hard. Endless Consumption procs too often, and the multiplier effect on the Everfrost set is too strong; both act to multiply the effectiveness of life steal.
    Entire post quoted for extra visibility.
    Luusi sums up the major issues very well here for the dev(s) and represents the consensus of the more experienced pvp community interested in seeing a balanced and functional pvp platform.

    I disagree mainly only with the removal of the orange mount powers from pvp since players have already invested huge amount of AD in an orange mount specifically for pvp. Most of the mount powers are fine. The imbalance issue here is with the [Swift Golden Lion] mount bonus. The combination of the toss-and-prone (both a knockback and a prone) and instant temp HP every 60 seconds from the lion is a major significant advantage in pvp. One typical rule among players for 1v1 is "No lion". As an SW, it's better than all my dailies in pvp which is pathetic.

    Adjusting the Golden lion bonus in line with the other orange mount active bonuses would be a reasonable compromise. The prone could be reworked into a shorter stationary prone (like my crappy SW harrowstorm prone) and the temp HP amount lowered.
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @sgrantdev#8718 said:
    > Hey all,
    >
    > Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates
    > * Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.
    >
    >
    > * Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.
    >
    >
    > * CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.
    >
    >
    > If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.
    _____________________
    @sgrantdev#8718
    You do understand that courage breaker slow ability as is currently is the only way we will ever have hope in hades to duelist flurry on a fast mobile opponent?

    By nerfing courage breaker you will be forcing more players to go the executioner shadow of demise path.

    Do not change courage breakers slow feature. (Too bad they never listen to me)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited September 2017


    @sgrantdev#8718

    You do understand that courage breaker slow ability as is currently is the only way we will ever have hope in hades to duelist flurry on a fast mobile opponent?
    By nerfing courage breaker you will be forcing more players to go the executioner shadow of demise path.

    Do not change courage breakers slow feature. (Too bad they never listen to me)

    @sgrantdev#8718

    Rogues: Whining about broken powers being appropriately nerfed since mod4
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    macjae said:


    If you are going to attempt to make Stronghold Siege somewhat played again, it is crucial that the companion active bonuses were removed. During the original testing of the mode, this was the predominant feedback from players, and one that was listened to -- the mode launched without companion bonuses, but these were added in later, and contributed to making it much worse in nearly every regard. Not only could they potentially be responsible for added lag in many cases, but they also tend not to be balanced around PVP. Many of the companion active bonuses have been and are pretty toxic (though the CC changes will certainly fix some, there will always be more).

    Please consider removing legendary mount active powers from PVP. These add an additional unfair advantage for some players (I have orange mounts, in case anyone wondered). It should be sufficient that the legendary mounts provide greater equip bonuses. Having essentially an additional power to play with is too much. (An alternative would be to add something as a PVP reward that could fill this slot for PVP only.)

    Shadow of Demise needs to be fixed in some way. The way it behaves takes the worst traits of massive piercing damage and adds a dose of inability to avoid the damage in any meaningful way on top of that. It also means that one TR paragon path completely outshines the other two in PVP (the CC immunity stacks will likewise probably provide an additional nerf to Scoundrels on top of that discrepancy). Reducing the effect of SoD against players, but increasing TR encounter damage in general would probably be the right direction to go in; part of the point being that relying more on encounter powers for damage also helps address perma-stealth (which continues to be a thing).

    Life Steal has been the biggest source of self-healing issues in PVP and so far these changes will make it relatively better. It needs to be toned down more than other sources of healing, particularly Endless Consumption and the Everfrost underwear set. In general, the changes to critical hits will create more opportunities for relatively larger hits, which can proc life steal and basically heal someone virtually to full in a single swing if they hit hard. Endless Consumption procs too often, and the multiplier effect on the Everfrost set is too strong; both act to multiply the effectiveness of life steal.

    These are all great feedbacks so I'm just quoting them to make it more visible.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    > @sgrantdev#8718 said:

    > Hey all,

    >

    > Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates

    > * Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.

    >

    >

    > * Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.

    >

    >

    > * CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.

    >

    >

    > If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.

    _____________________

    @sgrantdev#8718

    You do understand that courage breaker slow ability as is currently is the only way we will ever have hope in hades to duelist flurry on a fast mobile opponent?



    By nerfing courage breaker you will be forcing more players to go the executioner shadow of demise path.



    Do not change courage breakers slow feature. (Too bad they never listen to me)

    IF they just reduce the duration lets say to 5 seconds is fine only this should happen only.
    Tr has the class feats ( tactics) and good ap gain sources to apply courage breaker again to the target( before even the previous expire).

    For what duelist flury we talk about? I see the bloodbath to pop up after courage breaker ( daily after daily).
    If new courage breaker has duration 5 seconds ( i dont know i guessing) isnt enough to do your job on a slowed target?( still you have the daily after daily and again daily and again daly) .

    New system also favor rogue inflitrator since already a tr can have 75% deflection severity already have itc and in top of that get and the cc resist stacks + immunity at 4th stack.
    The only way to catch a rogue currently on live is to be lucky and cc him in a short window he dont have itc. IS this lie?.

    @sgrantdev i expected better system than the cc immunity.
    The only thing you will achieve is : To go from permanent controls to permanent immunities non of them are good.

    Why you dont increase the tenacity control resist to 60%, and all boons that give control resist 5% ? 10% for pvp and forget that cc immune system.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

    rayrdan said:

    still waiting for GFs damage nerf tho

    Ya, here you have all GFs trying to nerf TR. GF needs to be balanced for 12b.
    mind you, tr needs way more damage and definitely not in the form of piercing like sod.
    but their damage is now in line with GF one...is one is balanced so is the other.
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    rayrdan said:

    still waiting for GFs damage nerf tho

    Don't forget Paladins.

    Back on topic tho, guys.
  • texy1texy1 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Is the item-level of the Masterwork II Titansteel PvP set receiving the same "boost" as the rest?
    The stats are equal to the new Strategist, minus the equip bonus:


  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    I only speak the truth. Only DPS GFs think GF is balanced. The rest of us know it is overpowered. You want TR nerfed to the ground, heck you probably want HR, CW and GWF nerfed to the ground too. But, GF, it is perfectly balanced, so sad. hopefully the devs see through GF lies and make it a balanced class. PVP crit changes do not affect PVE, where GF is stupid overpowered as well. It is tank, not a Striker, I still think DPS GFs fail to understand that.

    You would not know truth if it came running as a truck and hit you right in the face lol.
    Still wearing that cape and T-shirt I see.

    defiantone99 is the most bias clueless poster that exist on these forum if he was spending as much time on climat changes instead the world would be a better place.....

    CC changes need to be tested in full scale, I do thing it will be different with premades vs premade and random queu.

    Hr trapper and control cw will ofc have a hard and seem more or less dead in pvp after these cc changes.

    Legendary mount needs to go same with drain glyphs.

    All in all I think moving tenacity from gear to player with cc changes will make pvp more attractive to players and together with 1 person queue has a chanse to revive it somewhat.

    Crit need to be fixed, Tr cc + SoD needs to be fixed as well as Tr redicules survivability, give Tr more base damage and some more damage on other powers etc instead.

    Bullcharge getting changing to stun instead of KB in pvp is probably a good idea also as lowering the lifesteal overall..
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User

    Hey all,

    Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates

    1. Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.

    2. Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.

    3. CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.
    If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.
    What sort of changes are this with Courage Breaker, it wont make any difference with the top TR's at the moment. They are running now with over 20-25k RECOVERY. Oooh yea, you have reduced its duration by HALF against pvp targets. By adding next module and new gems which will compensate by its amount of recovery stats. ( i mean more recovery the faster you can do your daily) .... its around 4 seconds on live atm..... which is over rediculous.

    WHY cant you just ADD a global cool down for Courage Breaker, just like you did for DC's for its Hallowed Grounds????

    Pls look into it.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    alfalolz said:

    Hey all,

    Just wanted to make a quick post with a couple of updates

    1. Courage breaker's duration has been lowered for PvP targets. The intent of courage breaker was not to allow a rogue to lock down someone movement wise. This is an initial change to see if it helps to balance out the concerns without significantly altering the utility of the power. If we still feel there is an issue we will make some other tweaks based on the feedback given.

    2. Drains/Wards are not being removed from the game as of now. This does not mean that we don't agree that they are an issue it just means that for this release there are several other things that are still being worked on in preparation for release. I can say that it is on the radar to be looked at. If we cannot find a good way to balance them out then we consider replacing them entirely. That cannot happen in time for 12b unfortunately.

    3. CC immunity system will continue to be tweaked based on internal and external feedback.
    If there are any other big PvP issues or updates related to 12b we will keep you posted. Thanks for all the great feedback so far.
    What sort of changes are this with Courage Breaker, it wont make any difference with the top TR's at the moment. They are running now with over 20-25k RECOVERY. Oooh yea, you have reduced its duration by HALF against pvp targets. By adding next module and new gems which will compensate by its amount of recovery stats. ( i mean more recovery the faster you can do your daily) .... its around 4 seconds on live atm..... which is over rediculous.

    WHY cant you just ADD a global cool down for Courage Breaker, just like you did for DC's for its Hallowed Grounds????

    Pls look into it.

    Can you finally stop attacking altenatives builds with recovery that they have lesser damage output ? Did anyone came here to talk about power penetration builds? please stop it and if i could i could and 40k recovery .

    I See here noone like diversity.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    macjae said:

    Control Wizards in particular remain extremely boned by these changes, as far as I can tell. Since this is one of my main classes, I will try and offer my insight on what the effects will be.

    The sole bright spot is that removal of the base Tenacity control resistance should make some CC effects a little stronger when they hit a target without any CC reduction stacks; Entangling Force might do more than make someone jump up and down.

    As it stands, however, CWs are being deprived both of their main value to a team as it stands, but their defensive capabilities are also being nerfed both directly and indirectly.

    Control has always been an important defense for CWs; incapacitating a foe prevents them from killing you. The changes so far will drastically reduce this line of defense. More indirectly, the changes will also have additional knock-on effects: (1) it reduces the value of the Elven Battle enchantment (which is currently favored for its combination of CC resistance and stamina regeneration); (2) it means taking the Severe Reaction feat will prove a liability in many cases. Together, these two things mean CWs may be faced with a situation where they will be faced with much stronger incentives to use armor enchantments like Negation, Shadowclad or even Barkshield to shore up their base squishiness. While more variety is good, this is borne out of weakness. Overall, it will mean CWs will be less mobile and have fewer dodges. (Of course, with CC being basically removed, fewer dodges may be necessary.)

    Overall, it should leave CWs more vulnerable than they currently are. That isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, as CWs should be the squishiest class around, but it builds in even more reliance on using Shield (which means that the core CW mechanic of having a fourth encounter with additional effects on tab will continue to be dead in the water), and it is definitely not justified in what else they can bring to the table now.

    Presently, CWs are quite valuable to a team because they have very strong node defense abilities through Repel, combined either with very strong control and being basically immortal (oppressor) or fairly decent damage and/or buffs (thaumaturge or renegade). In addition, their control makes for the ability to set up combination attacks with teammates to take someone out. Their damage on its own is not particularly exceptional; pretty much every other class will beat CWs in a 'let's just beat each other to death'-style contest without any CC involved (but blocking/dodging etc being allowed).

    Another important consideration is that one important reason for the prevalence of CC-based builds isn't strength, but weakness: How hard it has gotten to kill a lot of PVP toons because of all the defensive mechanisms and healing going around, often making CC a better means of taking and holding nodes than killing someone. For CWs in particular, Repel-bots aren't just borne out of the fact that it's effective at holding a node, but because of CW weakness in other areas. While it's obviously frustrating to keep being repelled away, it's even less fun to be pretty much helpless to actually win a fight against an equally geared opponent, which is where these changes will land CWs as they stand now.

    Thus, the CC system has to change to some degree to not completely obliterate CW viability in PVP. The other alternative would be to greatly increase their damage output and defensive abilities, but that would just be wiping out the class role entirely in favor of full-on pew-pew. Keep in mind, I think it's entirely reasonable to tone down the impact of CC, but not to the extent it's being done so far.

    The CC immunity system needs to be adjusted to have an ICD on how often stacks can be acquired (like 2s), it might need more stacks and possibly different numbers of stacks depending on the effect. Regardless, the window during which characters can be CC immune should be drastically smaller; like 3-5 seconds every 10-15 seconds at most. Another twist on this could actually be this: Rather than increasing CC resistance, adding stacks grants a bonus to damage reduction while being controlled, before switching to immunity. This would conserve the effectiveness of control effects while making sure that there are windows of opportunity to act and counterplay, and it would mean that a CC chain would be less deadly (but still deadly). Regardless of the precise details, CWs need to be effective with their CC, but opponents also need an opportunity for counterplay. The current system has swung far too wide in the second direction.

    It would also be nice to see a few changes to CWs to increase variety in how they play. Specifically, Shield always being the best choice for the tab spell isn't the most fun option around, and there's an over-reliance on chill stacks.

    Magic Missile ought to add an arcane stack with each cast, and have 5-10% additional resistance ignored per stack. That would make it a valuable spell for fighting toons with high Damage Reduction, and it would make it a quicker process to get arcane stacks, making it a better option against the current completely chill stack-dominated, Ray of Frost-only CW playstyle in PVP. It would also match the source material in D&D of magic missile being the spell that never misses.

    Shield ought to be toned down. Make the defensive features on tab equal to the defensive features of the normal version, but make the burst effect stronger when it gets popped, possibly adding an area stun effect. That would simultaneously make its defensive utility lower and also make it more of a consideration to use it offensively in some cases, making it more interesting and less of a completely passive spell.

    Please make Shard of the Endless Avalanche useful again. This spell was once what Shield is now: The preferred tab spell for PVP CWs. However, it was pretty much nerfed into oblivion by taking away its damage and changing a few other things about it like velocity and control effect. Most importantly, this spell was *fun* to play with in its original state, and actually required some degree of skill to handle properly. Please consider greatly increasing the damage this spell inflicts so it becomes competitive again, and rolling back some of the other changes about it as well. It shouldn't necessarily be as strong as it was in module 3, but it's pretty much extinct as it stands now.

    Tone down Chilling Presence. Specifically, the double damage against frozen targets thing should be more like +50% at most. At present, it makes the interaction of this class feature and the Icy Veins feat pretty ridiculous and mandatory. CWs could rather use a general damage boost to compensate for this change.

    While some of these things have PVE consequences, only the last one would possibly have negative repercussions there.

    Most of all, make sure that Repel only adds one CC immunity stack and that Severe Reaction doesn't add any. Getting CC immunity stacks for very minor pushes is just ridiculous.

    How long stays a target freezed and 2nd with new cc immune system will dare a cw to stand at 15 feet to apply icy veins?
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    Is time to put also 1 class per team so we dont have abuse of this new system..
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    There is also the issue of Knight's Challenge. It is not fitting for the current game. There is no threat that you will take double damage, because the enemy is usually dead by the time he notices you and/or because GF is too tanky, and backed up by DCs and OPs anyway.

    KC is what makes Gf do massive damage against boss mobs IF THEY DONT TANK. There is nothing like Gf tanking and doing high damage.

    Gf cong path with powersharing using KC getting high damage output with buffs being culmelative is the major culprit to redicules damage numbers but that is for pve not pvp. And yes remaking KC might not be a bad thing but what has that to do in a pvp thread ?

    Keep it civil - Ambisinisterr
    Post edited by ambisinisterr on
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    The key to balancing GF is to make it a Defender/Controller like it was designed to be. The best solution is to remove the Conqueror tree and replace it with an Instigator/Oppressor-type tree.

    The post is about absolutly broken things not classes but you are so far from objective that you cant see the forrest for the trees.

    If you think Gf do more damage TANKING in pve then Gwf, Tr, CW, Hr then you just can not play your class right and suffer from other things like lack of knowledge.

    Tr SoD. smoke CB, surviability is more broken in pvp the all other things combine hence the many threads about it.

    Gf class it is has it strenght but also some weakness built into it Tr do not have any weakness and its funny how you complain about the Gf as a TANK when Tr as CLOTH has 10x as much survivability..

    Gf 1-2 will die as they need to drop shield to attack and then are have no defence against being cced all over the place I know as I play Gf HR OP and Gwf myself, Gwf on the other hand just wait for unstoppable to pop and can run away if going gets to tough.

    Most post (not all) in here are to improve existing pvp and come with some form of constructive input yours are only a bias nonsence about NEEERRFFF THE GFs filled with false information at best.....
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    A properly built GF takes almost no damage. Shield is 80% RID, you can build for 80% DR. So, you take 4% damage. This 4% can be negated as well. For a class with so much damage, it is obscene that it takes that little damage.

    Ok so Itc need to go for Tr then I understand, how about remove bubble from Cw, remove temp Hp from Pal and while we are at it get rid of astral shield also...

    No Gf that does good damage in pvp has more then base top 35% DR, stats has to go to other places to optimize the damage output.

    Hide for Tr need to go also while we are mention things that make you take zero damage...

    Be careful what you wish for it might come true ......
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    marnival said:

    A properly built GF takes almost no damage. Shield is 80% RID, you can build for 80% DR. So, you take 4% damage. This 4% can be negated as well. For a class with so much damage, it is obscene that it takes that little damage.

    Ok so Itc need to go for Tr then I understand, how about remove bubble from Cw, remove temp Hp from Pal and while we are at it get rid of astral shield also...

    No Gf that does good damage in pvp has more then base top 35% DR, stats has to go to other places to optimize the damage output.

    Hide for Tr need to go also while we are mention things that make you take zero damage...

    Be careful what you wish for it might come true ......
    Your bias is showing. Nerf everybody except GF, gotcha.
    I just showed you what you where actually writing when you say no CLASS shoud be able to take so little damage while doing so much damage...

    Well maby we can keep ITC just make it frontal same as shield and that you can see the TR from behind then is that ok for you....

    I did not put up the examples out there you did when you as usal write with out a clue about just about anything...
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