Support Loadout?

artifleur

Has anyone made a loadout for support before?

I had this idea after doing the avatar of Orcus fight in ToNG. Since only one character is allowed to deal significant damage to Orcus, if this character isn't you it could make sense to switch to a support loadout to try and buff the main DPS.

I guess the basics would obviously be Longstrider's Shot and Swiftness of the Fox to reset its cooldown, but then what else?

- Commanding Shot is tempting but it takes a long time to fire so I'm not sure if it's worth it

- Hunter's Teamwork supposedly reduces the damage the target does but I don't know how much and if it even works (if anyone has some concrete info on it I'm all ears)

- Boar Hide, Hawkeye, Oak Skin, Stag Heart and fox's Cunning all give some more or less useful buff to the team

The best combination I've found so far is :
Longstrider -> Commanding -> Teamwork -> Stag Heart -> Oak Skin -> Careful Attack

The biggest problem is chosing feats since they basically all look irrelevant.

nirafelos

Thorn Ward offers another 10% DR debuff at max stacks. Even with diminishing returns that's probably better than Oak Skin.

wdj40

Oooo I have a PvE Support Loadout which I have not shared with anyone. Its the one i can carry 4 players through any of the content up to Master Spellplague (not actually ran that dungeon yet).

The main feature is Oak Skin with Maze Engine Boon. This procs on healing ticks and allows you to heal your Allies by substantial amounts. If you pair it with Fox's Cunning you can Tank Orcus (you have to know what you are doing) whilst healing your Allies. I have left some runs, like Illusionist Gambit, with over 10mil Healing which is nuts for a HR with 3k Lifesteal.

Anyhoo best set-up for a Trapper Support is Longstrider>Constricting>CoA for all the Mobs up to tough bosses. Then switch Longstrider for Fox's, Constricting for Binding Arrow (Oak Skin)... Unless your group is really struggling then just use Fox's and Oak all the way though a run. You can also switch CoA for Hindering HAMSTER/Strike which makes attacking etc a whole lot quicker.

I have 100% PUG success rate and generally only run PUG's, my Bio in-game even states I specialise in helping PUG's

One of the best Companions to Summon for a Support is the Helmite Paladin Ghost.

artifleur

@nirafelos : You are probably right. The only problem with thorn ward is the long animation and freeze.

@wdj40 : That's very interesting. I like the idea of using oak skin with the boon.

I've tried to refine this idea a little.

Here are a few observations :

- commanding strike and thorn ward both suffer from the diminishing returns for DR debuffs
- commanding strike has a horribly long animation
- thorn ward is cast instantly but freezes you for roughly one second after using it
- longstrider gives 40% more damage no matter what, which is a huge buff
- longstrider only lasts 4 seconds which is very very short

Due to all this I believe the main goal should be to keep longstrider running constantly which basically rules out commanding strike because by the time it activates longstrider will already be over. Thorn ward also is pretty bad when it comes to speed.

The simplest way to achieve that which came to my mind was to simply use longstrider followed by enough melee at-wills to reset it and no other encounter. The choice of melee at-wills, however is limited :

- careful attack and aimed strike have a casting time
- split strike requires a target in melee range but you shouldn't have one since you are shooting longstriders from afar
- rapid strike has 2 drawbacks, its animation bug makes it hard to know how many times you striked and it makes you move forward which is counter-productive
- that only leaves clear the ground

It takes me 5 ctg's to reset longstrider. But then I'm doing nothing else, so I tried adding 2 instant ranged encounters.

I picked fox's cunning and boar hide. With them I can still reset longstrider in less than 4 seconds.

Finally I tried using melee encounters. Since the melee counterpart of longstrider is gushing wounds (which is very slow and requires a target in melee range) you only get 2 melee encounters.

The best combo I've found is longstrider / binding arrow / constricting arrow. Grasping roots can reduce your cooldowns a little thanks to forestbond and oak skin is a decent buff. Using at-wills in-between encounters I can still reset longstrider just before it drops but it takes a lot more dedication.

So in summary, here are the 3 rotations I've found for perma-longstrider :

1 : longstrider -> clear the ground x5 -> longstrider

2 : longstrider -> fox's cunning -> boar skin -> clear the ground x5 -> longstrider

3 : longstrider -> electric shot -> binding arrow -> electric shot -> constricting arrow -> electric shot -> oak skin -> clear the ground -> steel breeze -> clear the ground -> longstrider

thefabricant

artifleur said:

Has anyone made a loadout for support before?

I had this idea after doing the avatar of Orcus fight in ToNG. Since only one character is allowed to deal significant damage to Orcus, if this character isn't you it could make sense to switch to a support loadout to try and buff the main DPS.

I guess the basics would obviously be Longstrider's Shot and Swiftness of the Fox to reset its cooldown, but then what else?

- Commanding Shot is tempting but it takes a long time to fire so I'm not sure if it's worth it

- Hunter's Teamwork supposedly reduces the damage the target does but I don't know how much and if it even works (if anyone has some concrete info on it I'm all ears)

- Boar Hide, Hawkeye, Oak Skin, Stag Heart and fox's Cunning all give some more or less useful buff to the team

The best combination I've found so far is :
Longstrider -> Commanding -> Teamwork -> Stag Heart -> Oak Skin -> Careful Attack

The biggest problem is chosing feats since they basically all look irrelevant.

@artifleur you can find information about the debuff on Hunter's Teamwork here.

artifleur

@thefabricant Thanks!

durugudesu

if you are a trapper, you can support but still do massive damage, if you are not the main dps, try using longstrider, constricting and thornward. Go in and out, and only recast thorn ward when it's duration is almost up, not need to keep recasting every rotation.

wdj40

durugudesu said:

if you are a trapper, you can support but still do massive damage, if you are not the main dps, try using longstrider, constricting and thornward. Go in and out, and only recast thorn ward when it's duration is almost up, not need to keep recasting every rotation.

Exactly this... you can be a Support and the front line of attack at the same time. This is why I love the HR so much, so much variety to the class. I would quite literally have 8-10 Loadouts if I had the slots

jonkoca

I think I used to use Fox and Hawkeye when I was a trapper to reset longstrider. Was a long time ago though.

oldbaldyone

Question: Would the buffs really be that much better than just having the second DPS hit Orcus?

Obviously if you have the zombie buff the point is moot, but I have found if I'm the second DPS, I just don't take any buffs (let the healers take the buff), and tell the group to ignore the zombies. AOEs will generally take them out pretty fast.

artifleur

You are probably right in most cases.

The red curse seems to give 60% extra damage.

With longstrider : 1.6*1.4=224%

Do deal as much damage by attacking Orcus, you'll have do at least 2.24-1.6=64% of the damage done by the main DPS.

However you can also deal some damage while spamming longstrider. When I tried today, I did about 17% of the damage done by the other DPS who was vastly stronger than me. Total : 2.24+0.17=241%. In this case I would have only done better by doing more than 2.41-1.6=81% of his damage.

With 2 DPS with similar potentials, it seems to be better to go full frontal.

kleineryoda

I'm playing my (PF) archery loadout as support/debuffer, using commanding shot, longstriders and thron ward.

Right before combat I often use stag heart (commanding shot melee) and then switch to ranged stance - note that stag heart rank 4 is somewhat buggy , enabling procs on stance change.

Placing the thorn ward at the beginning of the fight gives it the time to build stacks (up to 10 stacks at 2% debuff each), it is very easily maintainable, as long as you recast it before, or *very* shortly after it runs out (better before). Thorn ward of 2 HRs does not stack but refreshes the duration of each other.

Then I go with longstrider, as by the time I placed my thorn ward all close range fighters have reached the target/boss. (Sometimes it's worth to just "ping" the target with a shot of hunters teamwork, to get your companion running beforehand).

3rdly the commanding shot, which as you noticed takes some time - I use this time to double tab, which enables/refreshes feats that proc on stance change. With longstriders up and prey applied this one does hit rather hard, so it's worth the wait.

I continue to shoot aimed shots, reducing cooldowns further (archery feat: unflinching aim, in addition to bottomless quiver).

This way I can keep longstriders cooldown around 6 seconds, note that you only have to refresh thorn ward from time to time, not every rotation. Having a DC helps with the cooldowns obviously. I only run this loadout in groups, and I almost only run groups in this loadout.

When there's time and I don't have to refresh thorn ward (in addition to a quick disruptive shot as "4th" encounter and my HR artifact), I'll use the speed buff after a longstriders to get closer to the target, applying careful attack, gushing wound and potentially aimed strike. You can also try to apply a fresh stag heart while you are close to your group.

For small enemies/easier bosses I start out with longstriders, notice how in fast runs with "easy" content speed is valued - so people prefer 60% run speed, to get to the next group, over the 40% damage, when they are already mowing (mawing?) down everything (same for Into The Fray, notice your tank firing it *after* the trash mob went down).

You can also place the thorn ward quite in advance, to where the boss will spawn (interesting for lostmauth, syndrith and the malabog dragon, whose name escpaed my mind).

Pay attention to the lonstrider's symbol, the written text doesn't always show up. That's especially important for groups with more than 1 HR. Longstriders also doesn't seem to work if it kills the target, so best to aim for something bigger (if not in a boss fight).

In squishy groups I'll exchange the commanding shot for fox's cunning, to keep them alive (mainly master svardborg).