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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Temple

Three DC Questions

chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
edited August 2017 in The Temple
1. I have read that 30k base power is the break point for effectiveness of buffs between DO and AC clerics. Is that 30k number a result of math, or just a rule of thumb?
2. Is it possible to have divinity gain so fast so as to be able to cast empowered Forgemaster's Flame *and* empowered Break the Spirit? If so, how?
3. When casting Break the Spirit, if the target dies before the BtS buff has ended, does the buff also go away or does it persist?


Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    chemjeff said:

    1. I have read that 30k base power is the break point for effectiveness of buffs between DO and AC clerics. Is that 30k number a result of math, or just a rule of thumb?
    2. Is it possible to have divinity gain so fast so as to be able to cast empowered Forgemaster's Flame *and* empowered Break the Spirit? If so, how?
    3. When casting Break the Spirit, if the target dies before the BtS buff has ended, does the buff also go away or does it persist?


    Thanks in advance.

    Take these with a grain of salt because I haven't retested in a while..
    1. 30k base power is a rule of thumb, and it's based on TI (20% buff) vs power sharing. The actual math is difficult because the increase to party damage from power sharing depends heavily on how much power your party's Damage Dealers have, and what level bonding stones they have. Even at 40k+ base power, I might still switch to DO if I'm going to be running with a party with lower level bondings or augments. You can do actual math for any particular party... but good luck with trying to generalize the results based on so many specific assumptions XD
    2. I would imagine it's possible, but not with 100% uptime and it might not be practical. You'd need to stack all of the + divinity generation (fotg and da), and use something like BotS. If I remember, Emp BtS has an 8 sec uptime, so you'd need to regenerate divinity, spam 3x something fast and emp FF. Which sounds possible, but you'd be giving up some stuff (including being less careful with spell positioning) which I think might turn out a net loss to party effectiveness.
    3. I believe the buff on allies and debuff on baddies are separate. So the buff persists as normal even if the original target dies.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    chemjeff said:

    1. I have read that 30k base power is the break point for effectiveness of buffs between DO and AC clerics. Is that 30k number a result of math, or just a rule of thumb?
    2. Is it possible to have divinity gain so fast so as to be able to cast empowered Forgemaster's Flame *and* empowered Break the Spirit? If so, how?
    3. When casting Break the Spirit, if the target dies before the BtS buff has ended, does the buff also go away or does it persist?


    Thanks in advance.

    Take these with a grain of salt because I haven't retested in a while..
    1. 30k base power is a rule of thumb, and it's based on TI (20% buff) vs power sharing. The actual math is difficult because the increase to party damage from power sharing depends heavily on how much power your party's Damage Dealers have, and what level bonding stones they have. Even at 40k+ base power, I might still switch to DO if I'm going to be running with a party with lower level bondings or augments. You can do actual math for any particular party... but good luck with trying to generalize the results based on so many specific assumptions XD
    2. I would imagine it's possible, but not with 100% uptime and it might not be practical. You'd need to stack all of the + divinity generation (fotg and da), and use something like BotS. If I remember, Emp BtS has an 8 sec uptime, so you'd need to regenerate divinity, spam 3x something fast and emp FF. Which sounds possible, but you'd be giving up some stuff (including being less careful with spell positioning) which I think might turn out a net loss to party effectiveness.
    3. I believe the buff on allies and debuff on baddies are separate. So the buff persists as normal even if the original target dies.
    Good write up Dupeks, to add a little bit

    1. I don't think you can come up with a concrete answer. Many other challenges about power sharing also come up. You can assume Weapons of Light is a wash, so your really trying to balance Hallowed Ground Terrifying Insight vs Anointed Army and Blessing of Battle buffs. Yes both trees have access to Hallowed Ground, but generally your going to use one or the other. Then you have to consider the range, since Terrifying Impact is a flat buff without concern to positioning it's easy to calculate. Power buffs from Anointed Army and Blessing of Battle is much more difficult. For example, it's much more important to buff the party members companions (assuming good bonding) than the actual party member. So positioning needs to be considered for both the companion and the party member. And since Anointed Army and Blessing of Battle goes away upon companion death, there survive-ability is also a consideration. Then as since Anointed Army goes away on damage received you also have to be aware of the situation to ensure your Anointed Army doesn't get dispelled early. Then you have to consider your Action Point/Recovery gain and how frequently you can cast your daily's. Basically there is no good way to measure the power buffing meta you just have to read the situation and adjust accordingly (thanks loadouts). There certainly isn't a set rule, but 30K is the generally accepted threshold, after that its just based on experience and reading the situation. Below 30K power, power buffing is basically not in consideration.

    2. I'd venture to assume that it's not possible or would only have very little overlap. It's not worth trying. Assume it takes 3 at-wills to get to full divinity. Then you need 3 divine casts to build empowerment, then you need to cast the empowered spell. So just say that's 1s per cast, your at 7s so far while racing the 8s BtS timer. That's 1s of possible overlap and doesn't include the use of any non-empowered or divine encounters or using a daily, no dodging, no re-positioning, you can't be stunned. So you're better off trying to be at near perma on one than using both withh a 1s overlap. Using Gift of the Gods you may be able to cut 1s off of the divinity gathering but you'd be giving up so much more to unlock the feat.

    3. Current the buff is assigned to the party (in range) not the target, so it will persist after target death.



  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    People quote the 30k power but forget to mention that constant uptime of AA requires a decent investiment in gear, pets and enchants. If you aren't capable of 100% uptime on a target dummy, DO is going to be the better option for buffing. Actually, even if you can do it there, if you are borderline then it might not be feasible in a dungeon.

    I tend to go DO until the final boss on T1 or T2 and switch to AC then. Trash dies too quickly in those dungeons to maintain my rotation. FBI and better may be different, but then you get to the pet & bonding issue that has already been discussed.

    Of course all the new dungeons and Svardborg have pet eating bosses. I have run DO at T9G final boss because our main DPS' pet kept getting an all expenses paid trip to the sub basement. It can also help there as a solo DC when you can't always run your rotation... Partial Paralysis KNOWS what you are up to...
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Completely agree with the points that both Putz and Pitshade made above. I really ought to be comparing

    BoB (w/ feat) + AA vs. TI + HG

    To add some more complications: I sometimes run my AC with BoB and HG as daily in fights that are going to include too many baddies hitting my damage dealers and wiping out AA too quickly. With the right setup and end-game gear, you can even get an AC to have partial overlap on AA + HG for nutso burst. But that's not usually practical / reliably achievable outside of specific setups.

    I agree that DC builds / loadouts are very situational.

    As Putz alluded, DO is a bit more forgiving in terms of positioning and inexperienced teams (where the damage dealers and their companions are needlessly spread out or tank has trouble controlling boss positioning), or when everyone is getting hit often, because the buffs don't require precise positioning and don't fall off after getting hit.

    But power sharing has halo benefits by way of insignia bonuses like Shepherd's Devotion and Artificer's Persuasion, which can add significant utility to the party. Playing AC is definitely a bit less forgiving, but in my opinion also offers a little more flexibility in terms of how you support the team. Power sharing also doesn't require a party (TI does) so it's effective in group content without forming parties.

    Decisions... decisions... haha
  • almondumalmondum Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    I'm not the threat author, but want to thank pitshade dupeks and putzboy, very informative answers! I had a question 2 dilema another day too.
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