> @commanderdata002 said: > Not to mention nowaday dps players attitude and skillset. > They can't even dodge, position or kite. They blame the tank for every dmg and aggro. > Or constantly crying if they don't get any buffs. > > I even heard GWFs arguing with tanks after getting aggro after using daring shout. > > Glass cannon dps paper classes can't even do anything if they don't get it on a silver plate... > > Not to mention classes which weren't even that good before this buff maddness(since mod 9) like HRs. > > And no I didn't think simply nerfing DCs would be a solution.
Lol just because you haven't seen decent HRs before doesnt mean they didnt exist before this mod 9 that you mentioned.
@talon1970 In that run we didn't use BtS and FF, they gave almost 50% damage increase before they broke them
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited September 2017
As a BIS GF, I have successfully run T9G over 40 times. The argument in this thread is that 4 support + 1 dps is the BEST way to finish the dungeon (I use T9G because it is arguably the most difficult). BEST means FASTEST it seems, and the thread is arguing that nerfing a support class's buffs so that a dps class added in a party will be equal.
So far, the FASTEST I have done T9G is with me, 2 DCs, and 2 GWFs.
Combinations where I have failed to complete T9G in under an hour, or not at all: basically the same list above.
Failure to finish in a timely manner or not at all was due to several reasons: 1) Lag from one or more players who could not (in a timely manner) react to mechanics of mobs or bosses (especially the balls on first boss) 2) New players who did not know mechanics of bosses and did not have an adequate build to perform their party function (whether support or dps). This also includes those players who want to be carried through the content. There is no being carried in T9G. 3) Play style of veteran players who ignore the party make up or do not have loadouts for best synergy. This is ESPECIALLY true with dps classes who favor NON BUFFING weapon enchants. The fastest run I had was when the GWF had a Trans Holy, I ran Bronzewood , the 2nd GWF ran a Trans Terror, the first DC ran Trans Plague, and the 2nd DC ran Trans Frost. But, when I am invited into a party and I see everyone using vorpals and lightnings, I get nervous. Stacking the weapon enchants actually DOES something. Also, not using loadouts to CHANGE to fit the party. I run T9G as a Tact GF, full buff build. I do 5% to 20% of damage of top dpser. In most other content, I switch loadout, companions, offhand artifact power, mount insignia bonuses, and my encounters, class powers, etc.. I don't need to buff a group to finish elol in 10-15min. I can just go straight PvE setup. But, if you bring in a solo burn mindset into top content without PLANNING how to get the best synergy, the result is a long or failed run.
BUT, you may say, we don't have multiple enchantments, companions, mount bonuses or loadouts.
And THIS is the issue more than party makeup. The TIL ranking to enter the dungeon is worthless. I have completed T9G in under 1 hour with average party TIL of 14k, and failed to finish with avergage TIL of 15K. What you bring to the party in terms of buffing, debuffing, healing, tanking, and dps is more important. If you are a vanilla build that can get you through eTOS and elol, but you have not yet explored how you can maximize your party synergy (without going after more TIL), then the top content (FBI, T9G, mSP) will be a frustrating experience.
To help make FBI, mSP, or T9G easier, I would ask the devs to change the following: 1) Remove the cost in AD to swap artifact OH and MH powers. We used the cube to unlock it, we should not have to pay for it again to use it. 2) Remove the cost in gold to swap out enchants. Loadouts don't help unless you are rich enough (**cough cough**).
Also, before you go Roscoe Jenkins on that first mob of Yuan Ti 1) TALK to your party members before you start. Find out who has what companion, loadout, weapon, etc. This is why I run with friends more than pugs. I am much more comfortable talking with people I know, than people I don't.
But, I wanna play how I want as the supreme solo whatever.... Sorry, I can't help you there.
This thread is about the current group meta ,wich obviuosly is Tank-Tank-heal-heal-1 dps, right? The fact that every single endcontent group calls for DO-DC, AA-DC, OP, GF speaks for itself. The combination from powershare OP/AA-DC combined with direct damagebuffs from GF/DO-DC is insane, and was toned down a bit last mods, DO excludet wich got buffed. Now they nerf bondings, thinking this will bring back things in line? We all know exactly since ages that our bondings are the biggest buffer concerning powersharing , every buff x 2.85 redirected atm. If powersharing (by nerfing bondings) will get lowered to some degree we might feel the gap getting toned down a bit...maybe. I only hope the devs do any kind of testings to check the viability of a striker in NWO with the new bondings setup (wich doesn´t work correctly). I do not want to be forced to run 24/7 with my supporter class, boring. I fear the bondings changes will lead to a small impact on group setup, only effect will be a huge drop in dps and in the end a lot of player will be excludet from endcontent.
All of this can change if you are ready to accept a higher calling.. if you can play your class to the best of your abilities nothing can stop you. The real treasure or reward I've found a long time back was bumping into these rare adventurers who mysteriously also vanish
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mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited September 2017
After many many TONG runs, it turns out the cleanest and fastest runs I have been a part of took only ONE DC and 2 DPS. Asking devs to chase problems that DONT exist takes away time that they should be spending on proper, quality skirmishes, dungeons and raids, which this game is sorely in need of.
Comments
> Not to mention nowaday dps players attitude and skillset.
> They can't even dodge, position or kite. They blame the tank for every dmg and aggro.
> Or constantly crying if they don't get any buffs.
>
> I even heard GWFs arguing with tanks after getting aggro after using daring shout.
>
> Glass cannon dps paper classes can't even do anything if they don't get it on a silver plate...
>
> Not to mention classes which weren't even that good before this buff maddness(since mod 9) like HRs.
>
> And no I didn't think simply nerfing DCs would be a solution.
Lol just because you haven't seen decent HRs before doesnt mean they didnt exist before this mod 9 that you mentioned.
So far, the FASTEST I have done T9G is with me, 2 DCs, and 2 GWFs.
Combinations that I have successfully completed T9G in under an hour:
1. OP, GF, 2 DCs, TR.
2. OP, GF, 2 DCS, GWF
3. OP, GF, 2 DCs, HR
4. OP, GF, 2 DCs, CW
5. OP, GF, 2 DCs, SW (yes really)
6. OP, GF, 1 DC, CW, SW
7. OP, GF, 1 DC, CW, GWF
8. OP, GF, 1 DC, CW, HR
9. OP, GF, CW, SW, GWF (yes, no DC).
10. GF, 2 DCs, CW, GWF
11. GF, 2 DCs, 2 GWFs
12. OP, GF, 1 DC, CW, TR
13. GF, 1 DC, CW, SW, GWF
Combinations where I have failed to complete T9G in under an hour, or not at all: basically the same list above.
Failure to finish in a timely manner or not at all was due to several reasons:
1) Lag from one or more players who could not (in a timely manner) react to mechanics of mobs or bosses (especially the balls on first boss)
2) New players who did not know mechanics of bosses and did not have an adequate build to perform their party function (whether support or dps). This also includes those players who want to be carried through the content. There is no being carried in T9G.
3) Play style of veteran players who ignore the party make up or do not have loadouts for best synergy. This is ESPECIALLY true with dps classes who favor NON BUFFING weapon enchants. The fastest run I had was when the GWF had a Trans Holy, I ran Bronzewood , the 2nd GWF ran a Trans Terror, the first DC ran Trans Plague, and the 2nd DC ran Trans Frost. But, when I am invited into a party and I see everyone using vorpals and lightnings, I get nervous. Stacking the weapon enchants actually DOES something. Also, not using loadouts to CHANGE to fit the party. I run T9G as a Tact GF, full buff build. I do 5% to 20% of damage of top dpser. In most other content, I switch loadout, companions, offhand artifact power, mount insignia bonuses, and my encounters, class powers, etc.. I don't need to buff a group to finish elol in 10-15min. I can just go straight PvE setup. But, if you bring in a solo burn mindset into top content without PLANNING how to get the best synergy, the result is a long or failed run.
BUT, you may say, we don't have multiple enchantments, companions, mount bonuses or loadouts.
And THIS is the issue more than party makeup. The TIL ranking to enter the dungeon is worthless. I have completed T9G in under 1 hour with average party TIL of 14k, and failed to finish with avergage TIL of 15K. What you bring to the party in terms of buffing, debuffing, healing, tanking, and dps is more important. If you are a vanilla build that can get you through eTOS and elol, but you have not yet explored how you can maximize your party synergy (without going after more TIL), then the top content (FBI, T9G, mSP) will be a frustrating experience.
To help make FBI, mSP, or T9G easier, I would ask the devs to change the following:
1) Remove the cost in AD to swap artifact OH and MH powers. We used the cube to unlock it, we should not have to pay for it again to use it.
2) Remove the cost in gold to swap out enchants. Loadouts don't help unless you are rich enough (**cough cough**).
Also, before you go Roscoe Jenkins on that first mob of Yuan Ti
1) TALK to your party members before you start. Find out who has what companion, loadout, weapon, etc. This is why I run with friends more than pugs. I am much more comfortable talking with people I know, than people I don't.
But, I wanna play how I want as the supreme solo whatever....
Sorry, I can't help you there.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
The fact that every single endcontent group calls for DO-DC, AA-DC, OP, GF speaks for itself.
The combination from powershare OP/AA-DC combined with direct damagebuffs from GF/DO-DC is insane, and was toned down a bit last mods, DO excludet wich got buffed.
Now they nerf bondings, thinking this will bring back things in line?
We all know exactly since ages that our bondings are the biggest buffer concerning powersharing , every buff x 2.85 redirected atm.
If powersharing (by nerfing bondings) will get lowered to some degree we might feel the gap getting toned down a bit...maybe.
I only hope the devs do any kind of testings to check the viability of a striker in NWO with the new bondings setup (wich doesn´t work correctly).
I do not want to be forced to run 24/7 with my supporter class, boring.
I fear the bondings changes will lead to a small impact on group setup, only effect will be a huge drop in dps and in the end a lot of player will be excludet from endcontent.