My power is not so great on the build i play on my mof cw but ~(image)~
Active Bonus: On Encounter Use If you fail to critically hit, do an additional hit for damage equal to 50% of your power.
ISnt this similar to :
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
what is the difference? owlbear benefits from debuffs don't matter to you but demise matters?
IN both cases the 50% number get benefit from debuff so what is the problem?
Shadow of Demise deals damage based on the damage you dealt during the 6 seconds.
Owlbear deals damage equal to 50% of your Power rating (the stat that clerics buff)
Not similar at all.
If you deal 1000 damage with some attack that activates SoD, SoD will deal something like 500 damage (assuming it is actually 50% like it states). If you have 1000 power rating and you fail to crit, you will deal 500 damage on encounter use.
Now lets apply a 100% debuff (200% total effectiveness) and see what happens
You deal 2000 (1000) damage with the same attack as before, and then deal 2000 (1000) damage with SoD. You deal 1000 (500) damage with the same amount of power on a non-crit with the owlbear.
So how did that just work? Why did SoD proc for equal damage instead of 50%? It did proc for 50%, which was 1000 damage. However, it was then double AGAIN by the debuffs on the target. This is an exponential increase from debuffs, and will get more out of hand the higher the debuffs go.
Piercing damage will now be able to benefit from damage vulnerability debuffs on the target (such as the Lantern of Revelation debuff). dev statement. and
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
SInce demise is piercing it will be get benefit from the debuff no matter what i say what you say or someone else say.
Correct, that's not the issue ... oh wait I said this already. The issue isn't that SoD uses debuffs. The issue is that SoD uses debuff twice. The base damage for SoD should use the base damage of the powers that proc it just like every other power that works in this way.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
My power is not so great on the build i play on my mof cw but ~(image)~
Active Bonus: On Encounter Use If you fail to critically hit, do an additional hit for damage equal to 50% of your power.
ISnt this similar to :
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
what is the difference? owlbear benefits from debuffs don't matter to you but demise matters?
IN both cases the 50% number get benefit from debuff so what is the problem?
Shadow of Demise deals damage based on the damage you dealt during the 6 seconds.
Owlbear deals damage equal to 50% of your Power rating (the stat that clerics buff)
Not similar at all.
If you deal 1000 damage with some attack that activates SoD, SoD will deal something like 500 damage (assuming it is actually 50% like it states). If you have 1000 power rating and you fail to crit, you will deal 500 damage on encounter use.
Now lets apply a 100% debuff (200% total effectiveness) and see what happens
You deal 2000 (1000) damage with the same attack as before, and then deal 2000 (1000) damage with SoD. You deal 1000 (500) damage with the same amount of power on a non-crit with the owlbear.
So how did that just work? Why did SoD proc for equal damage instead of 50%? It did proc for 50%, which was 1000 damage. However, it was then double AGAIN by the debuffs on the target. This is an exponential increase from debuffs, and will get more out of hand the higher the debuffs go.
Piercing damage will now be able to benefit from damage vulnerability debuffs on the target (such as the Lantern of Revelation debuff). dev statement. and
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
SInce demise is piercing it will be get benefit from the debuff no matter what i say what you say or someone else say.
Correct, that's not the issue ... oh wait I said this already. The issue isn't that SoD uses debuffs. The issue is that SoD uses debuff twice. The base damage for SoD should use the base damage of the powers that proc it just like every other power that works in this way.
which other power works this way and uses the base damage?
My power is not so great on the build i play on my mof cw but ~(image)~
Active Bonus: On Encounter Use If you fail to critically hit, do an additional hit for damage equal to 50% of your power.
ISnt this similar to :
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
what is the difference? owlbear benefits from debuffs don't matter to you but demise matters?
IN both cases the 50% number get benefit from debuff so what is the problem?
Shadow of Demise deals damage based on the damage you dealt during the 6 seconds.
Owlbear deals damage equal to 50% of your Power rating (the stat that clerics buff)
Not similar at all.
If you deal 1000 damage with some attack that activates SoD, SoD will deal something like 500 damage (assuming it is actually 50% like it states). If you have 1000 power rating and you fail to crit, you will deal 500 damage on encounter use.
Now lets apply a 100% debuff (200% total effectiveness) and see what happens
You deal 2000 (1000) damage with the same attack as before, and then deal 2000 (1000) damage with SoD. You deal 1000 (500) damage with the same amount of power on a non-crit with the owlbear.
So how did that just work? Why did SoD proc for equal damage instead of 50%? It did proc for 50%, which was 1000 damage. However, it was then double AGAIN by the debuffs on the target. This is an exponential increase from debuffs, and will get more out of hand the higher the debuffs go.
Piercing damage will now be able to benefit from damage vulnerability debuffs on the target (such as the Lantern of Revelation debuff). dev statement. and
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
SInce demise is piercing it will be get benefit from the debuff no matter what i say what you say or someone else say.
Correct, that's not the issue ... oh wait I said this already. The issue isn't that SoD uses debuffs. The issue is that SoD uses debuff twice. The base damage for SoD should use the base damage of the powers that proc it just like every other power that works in this way.
which other power works this way and uses the base damage?
Piercing Blade feat HR combat and the old Living Fire DC feat before it was reworked to not be piercing damage iirc.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
My power is not so great on the build i play on my mof cw but ~(image)~
Active Bonus: On Encounter Use If you fail to critically hit, do an additional hit for damage equal to 50% of your power.
ISnt this similar to :
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
what is the difference? owlbear benefits from debuffs don't matter to you but demise matters?
IN both cases the 50% number get benefit from debuff so what is the problem?
Shadow of Demise deals damage based on the damage you dealt during the 6 seconds.
Owlbear deals damage equal to 50% of your Power rating (the stat that clerics buff)
Not similar at all.
If you deal 1000 damage with some attack that activates SoD, SoD will deal something like 500 damage (assuming it is actually 50% like it states). If you have 1000 power rating and you fail to crit, you will deal 500 damage on encounter use.
Now lets apply a 100% debuff (200% total effectiveness) and see what happens
You deal 2000 (1000) damage with the same attack as before, and then deal 2000 (1000) damage with SoD. You deal 1000 (500) damage with the same amount of power on a non-crit with the owlbear.
So how did that just work? Why did SoD proc for equal damage instead of 50%? It did proc for 50%, which was 1000 damage. However, it was then double AGAIN by the debuffs on the target. This is an exponential increase from debuffs, and will get more out of hand the higher the debuffs go.
Piercing damage will now be able to benefit from damage vulnerability debuffs on the target (such as the Lantern of Revelation debuff). dev statement. and
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
SInce demise is piercing it will be get benefit from the debuff no matter what i say what you say or someone else say.
Correct, that's not the issue ... oh wait I said this already. The issue isn't that SoD uses debuffs. The issue is that SoD uses debuff twice. The base damage for SoD should use the base damage of the powers that proc it just like every other power that works in this way.
which other power works this way and uses the base damage?
Piercing Blade feat HR combat and the old Living Fire DC feat before it was reworked to not be piercing damage iirc.
How you can do that? actually that is my question. if you ignore the shadow demise those powers that build the demise damage is wai the fact they get benefit from buff-debuff.( lets say u use duelist flury lashing blade smoke dazing strike in 6 seconds)
Maybe will be overpowered ( in case you have good debuffer do you have every day?) but that doesnt mean is a bug.
My power is not so great on the build i play on my mof cw but ~(image)~
Active Bonus: On Encounter Use If you fail to critically hit, do an additional hit for damage equal to 50% of your power.
ISnt this similar to :
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
what is the difference? owlbear benefits from debuffs don't matter to you but demise matters?
IN both cases the 50% number get benefit from debuff so what is the problem?
Shadow of Demise deals damage based on the damage you dealt during the 6 seconds.
Owlbear deals damage equal to 50% of your Power rating (the stat that clerics buff)
Not similar at all.
If you deal 1000 damage with some attack that activates SoD, SoD will deal something like 500 damage (assuming it is actually 50% like it states). If you have 1000 power rating and you fail to crit, you will deal 500 damage on encounter use.
Now lets apply a 100% debuff (200% total effectiveness) and see what happens
You deal 2000 (1000) damage with the same attack as before, and then deal 2000 (1000) damage with SoD. You deal 1000 (500) damage with the same amount of power on a non-crit with the owlbear.
So how did that just work? Why did SoD proc for equal damage instead of 50%? It did proc for 50%, which was 1000 damage. However, it was then double AGAIN by the debuffs on the target. This is an exponential increase from debuffs, and will get more out of hand the higher the debuffs go.
Piercing damage will now be able to benefit from damage vulnerability debuffs on the target (such as the Lantern of Revelation debuff). dev statement. and
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
SInce demise is piercing it will be get benefit from the debuff no matter what i say what you say or someone else say.
Correct, that's not the issue ... oh wait I said this already. The issue isn't that SoD uses debuffs. The issue is that SoD uses debuff twice. The base damage for SoD should use the base damage of the powers that proc it just like every other power that works in this way.
which other power works this way and uses the base damage?
Piercing Blade feat HR combat and the old Living Fire DC feat before it was reworked to not be piercing damage iirc.
How you can do that? actually that is my question. if you ignore the shadow demise those powers that build the demise damage is wai the fact they get benefit from buff-debuff.( lets say u use duelist flury lashing blade smoke dazing strike in 6 seconds)
Maybe will be overpowered ( in case you have good debuffer do you have every day?) but that doesnt mean is a bug.
As I stated before, it isn't my call to say it is a bug or not, but I would guess it is unintended and hope it gets fixed quickly, since double-dipping is a well known phenomenon in gaming in general, and very rarely is it a healthy mechanic.
EDIT - the "fix" I stated does this: you dealt 2000 (1000) damage with powers instead of taking the 2000 for calculating the base damage of Shadow of Demise, you need to take the base damage, which is 1000. Shadow of Demise would then deal the properly doubled 1000 (500), since it would be taking 50% of the base damage instead of 50% of the debuffed damage.
This is properly doubled damage: 1000 with 500 2000 (1000) with 1000 (500)
This is NOT properly doubled damage (how it currently works): 1000 with 500 2000 (1000) with 2000 (1000)
Are we back to this it is not a bug thing again? Yes, it is a bug. A game-breaking bug at that. Murderous Flames was doing almost this exact same thing, and it only hit for 300 mill+. This new bug hits for 500 mill+
Murderous Flames were double-dipping buffs, which is the same mechanic, but with a much more drastic and game-breaking effect. Debuffs are capped, and no longer multiply off of eachother. We know EXACTLY the extent of Shadow of Demise's strength, since the debuff limit is in place.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Are we back to this it is not a bug thing again? Yes, it is a bug. A game-breaking bug at that. Murderous Flames was doing almost this exact same thing, and it only hit for 300 mill+. This new bug hits for 500 mill+
Show us the ACTs, because I saw some, and the issue is at different place all together. More correctly 2 issues. One has to do with power stacking and fundamental one, and another is a very specific to mod 12 new dungeon, the Orcus buff is a separate hit.
Now show me a single ACT of a TR single target for 500mil+ SoD on not Orcus. You know what, lets not go for 500mil, lets start for over 100mil, and remember for that you need 66mil damage in 6 seconds. For added proof do it without the power issue, meaning single target only, no WoB.
ofc with all the debuffs you can stack (still capped, so bring as many as you want), no problem, I've counted as x3 damage, but maybe you can squeeze some more.
This is capped, it has nothing to do with flames.
Call it a bug, call it not a bug, whatever... but, please, enough of the half truths, and those selective numbers choices...
BTW: Anyone want to check how tyrannical threat is affected by debuffs? And I don't remember it being game breaking overpowered on live right now, or the entire SW class actually....
I guess if they fix the powerlooping on TR they could leave sod as it is without it beeing op. Just the new dungeon is so perfect to "abuse" this. All bosses have adds so a TR can pretty easy stack up to 1+mio power. If you then combine that with SoD scaling u will get numbers in the 100+ mio range easily. The only limiting factor to this is how long the boss/trash stays alive cause u could scale your dmg till infinity. I dont want to sound like im campaigning for TR nerfes but that mechanic isnt good for the game. Its as broken as mod 9 weapons of light where the dcs could stack u up to negative power numbers.
Edit: We need the TR rework so they can fix broken stuff and compensate for the dmg loss at the same time
Edit2: i dont want TR share the same faith as SW where they balanced the class around scaling TC and later decided to remove the scaling and thus overnerfing it. Same could happen to TR if you have bad luck.
I am late to the party, one thread already got closed before i saw it. I guess im in time to share my opinion here.
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to it by the Rogue. Piercing damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
Current SoD in Live server does exactly what it says it does, except not counting in some Weapon Enchantments and AoC. Counts the damage in the 6 second window and applies it to target as Piercing (unmitigated) damage. It is based on mitigated damage which was done in 6 second window since that damage was benefiting from debuffs. SoD hit itself as unmitigated damage hit didnt benefit from debuffs. It was exactly half of the total damage done.
In Preview server we have a change which allows Piercing damage to benefit from debuffs. When SoD was designed Piercing damage wasnt benefiting from debuffs and now with change to Piercing damage we have a conflict. SoD tooltip doesnt apply anymore if it doesnt get updated with additional line: It is further increased by debuffs on target.
I dont know how they will handle this but current SoD tooltip and change to Piercing damage cannot coexist. If SoD is changed back to how it is in Live server then the change to Piercing damage doesnt apply to it and makes it not wai. In preview it benefits from Debuffs and is further increased and that is wai. Problem is it doesnt do anymore what tooltip says it does, it is not 50% of the damage dealt anymore. If SoD gets a change and is based on unmitigated damage during 6 second window that would mean a nerf and it would be weaker than it currently is in Live.
It is weird for SoD to be higher than the damage it is based on (since its not what the tooltip says) but we have to thank Piercing damage change for that.
If this was done on purpose and this is their solution for TR balance then it is really poorly done. Scoundrel was dead, now this is death sentence for Saboteur as well. Also, big SoD hits are happening because of WoB stacking. You will not see insane SoD hits without stacking WoB. Dont blame SoD for it.
Personally i dont like this change. I have nothing against SoD being back to normal as it is in Live (even tho that would not be wai due to Piercing damage change), if they can do proper class balance.
Post edited by blur#5900 on
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I guess if they fix the powerlooping on TR they could leave sod as it is without it beeing op. Just the new dungeon is so perfect to "abuse" this. All bosses have adds so a TR can pretty easy stack up to 1+mio power. If you then combine that with SoD scaling u will get numbers in the 100+ mio range easily. The only limiting factor to this is how long the boss/trash stays alive cause u could scale your dmg till infinity. I dont want to sound like im campaigning for TR nerfes but that mechanic isnt good for the game. Its as broken as mod 9 weapons of light where the dcs could stack u up to negative power numbers.
Edit: We need the TR rework so they can fix broken stuff and compensate for the dmg loss at the same time
Edit2: i dont want TR share the same faith as SW where they balanced the class around scaling TC and later decided to remove the scaling and thus overnerfing it. Same could happen to TR if you have bad luck.
I agree. I'll rather see the powerloop removed and SoD reworked altogether.
My point that the SoD numbers are not the core of the issue. The big numbers in this case are a combination of things, specifically the orcus buff and power-loop. The debuff thing just made the interaction more obvious. And no I'm not saying it needs to stay, but at the same time I don't agree with the "game breaking bug". It was changed with all the piercing damage, now it needs to be decided if it will be an exception, or the source will be calculated pre-debuffs, or a different approach. Design choices (and balance issues) and bugs are not the same.
Of course, TRs will say it is not game-breaking. SWs told me that MF was WAI when I reported it. GFs told me Commander's Strike was WAI. Most GWFs claim Steel Blitz is WAI, because they use it. There are probably DCs who would say WoL power-looping into negative numbers is WAI.
Because it is not game-breaking. You will never see insane SoD numbers in normal party run without stacking Whirlwind of Blades. Either SoD is not wai or the change to piercing damage is not wai. Up to the devs to decide. Both cannot be active at the same time as they are now and in the same time be wai.
If SoD gets a change and is based on unmitigated damage during 6 second window that would mean a nerf and it would be weaker than it currently is in Live.
Out of curiosity, why do you think it would be weaker than live if it were changed to this?
actual damage: 1000 unmitigated damage: (1000)
Live (100% effective): 1000 with 500 damage sod
Using Base (100% effective): 1000 with 500 damage sod
Live (200% effective): 2000 (1000) with 1000 damage sod
Using Base (200% effective): 2000 (1000) with 1000 (500) damage sod
Live (300% effective): 3000 (1000) with 1500 damage sod
Using Base (300% effective): 3000 (1000) with 1500 (500) damage sod
As long as the same debuffs were on at the end, it should be identical to the strength it was on live. It also removes the issue where it is now double mitigated by tenacity in pvp.
@darthtzarr You are right, i wrote that with Live in mind, without thinking about effect it would have in Preview. Anyway, even with that change it would be no different than current SoD in Live. If current state in Preview is intended as TR buff then with change to base it on unmitigated damage would nullify the buff. Another thing, we have no guarantee debuffs will be the same in moment when SoD hits as they were during the 6 counting seconds, which could make it go up and down and that would mean not working what it says in tooltip. Also it would mean changing the feat to accommodate the changes to Piercing damage so the feat could be same as in Live atm. I dont know if any HR piercing abilities are being changed so they stay the same as they are in Live.
@darthtzarr You are right, i wrote that with Live in mind, without thinking about effect it would have in Preview. Anyway, even with that change it would be no different than current SoD in Live. If current state in Preview is intended as TR buff then with change to base it on unmitigated damage would nullify the buff. Another thing, we have no guarantee debuffs will be the same in moment when SoD hits as they were during the 6 counting seconds, which could make it go up and down and that would mean not working what it says in tooltip. Also it would mean changing the feat to accommodate the changes to Piercing damage so the feat could be same as in Live atm. I dont know if any HR piercing abilities are being changed so they stay the same as they are in Live.
I doubt it was supposed to be a buff or a nerf to specific classes, but rather a correction on the behavior of piercing damage in general, since it wasn't working as the tooltip described.
Looking at how it's implemented, the first thing that jumps out at me is that it really doesn't work the way the tooltip says, which is "Piercing damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor". The part about deflection is true, but really piercing damage is built to ignore any kind of damage mod on the target at all. So if the if the target is vulnerable due to Lantern of Revelation, piercing doesn't get the bonus. And if the target has damage resist from Tenacity, piercing ignores that as well. It ignores pretty much everything but GF/P shields (which are built in a completely different way -- they are not technically a kind of damage resist, so piercing doesn't get a chance to ignore them).
I'd like to make piercing work like the tooltip says, and just ignore deflection and armor (as opposed to ignoring almost everything). That will make it worse (but, I suspect, still good, given the underlying numbers on a lot of these powers) in PvP, where Tenacity is such a huge factor. It will make it better in PvE, where there's no Tenacity, but damage vulnerability stacking is very important. When the smoke clears, it might also make sense to tweak the numbers on some individual powers (the one that comes to mind is the +50% from Piercing Blade, which might turn out to be high in a world where you get normal bonus damage also). But I think if piercing had this basic functionality (as described in the tooltips) it would be a core mechanic that could work with some number tuning -- as it is, it's just messed up in its underlying logic.
Well, they said they were going to do a rework of TR. So, now can we please get GWF and CW reworks? We need nice bugs to one-shot bosses too.
GWF? really? 30M+ IBS and Holy Avenger dealing 25% of your total dmg isnt enough for u?
I do not use Holy Avenger, it is stupid overpowered, it is overpriced and needs a tonedown. And I do not run full buff parties, that is just silly and makes the game too easy. Any class in a full buff party does massive damage. TR in a week will be the strongest class NW has ever seen, if the bug goes live. GWF and CW are up next for reworks. TR just got his.
Why would you use the heart of the black dragon then? That just adds to the debuffing pool. Also, why use the destroyer tree on your gwf? Sentinel has way more reasonable damage and things don't die too fast, even on a full buff party.
UPDATE: NeverwinterPreview (Americas and Europe public test shard) and Lurker (Russian language public test shard) are both updated with the build: NW.85.20170711b.4. This build is ostensibly a release candidate, though we'll still keep our eyes open for things that may change our mind on the matter.
The original posts of this thread have been updated, with changes in light blue text.
General: Sorry again about the lack of response to feedback on my side!
@miserinha - Regarding Portuguese localization: Unfortunately, we've stopped official support for localization in this language. If there are some egregiously bad / misleading translations, I can remove localized strings on a case-by-case basis (which will cause them to revert to English text), but it's unfortunately a bit of a taller order to get appropriate changes made in Portuguese. Sorry for the disappointment.
Yes, please delete the portuguese version. It is actually going to be really helpful to the Portuguese speaking community. Many people are forced into it the first time they play, and the disappointment of being offered such a poor quality work might actually drive them away. And those that stay can take a while to realize that the most of the mechanics, boons, powers aren't actually what they think they are.
Well, they said they were going to do a rework of TR. So, now can we please get GWF and CW reworks? We need nice bugs to one-shot bosses too.
GWF? really? 30M+ IBS and Holy Avenger dealing 25% of your total dmg isnt enough for u?
I do not use Holy Avenger, it is stupid overpowered, it is overpriced and needs a tonedown. And I do not run full buff parties, that is just silly and makes the game too easy. Any class in a full buff party does massive damage. TR in a week will be the strongest class NW has ever seen, if the bug goes live. GWF and CW are up next for reworks. TR just got his.
This effect can only activate every 45 seconds. duration 15 seconds.
with zen market price a transcended enchant should cost 9m ad if you think 7.2m is overpriced.
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Also when you call that fangbreaker island-master spellplague and tomb of the nine gods " dungeons" you have to add a stronghold quest for dungeoneering shards. That would be one more reason to unlock these dungeons for more shards.
@terramak Please revert the piercing change, and go back to the drawing board to make something that does not break the game.
Repeat after me. "This SoD change is a good change" "We embrace this change"
LOL
It is a few forum TRs vs the rest of the community on this. This bug will be unhealthy for the game and the TR.
Not that I disagree with the action taken on the issue, but I don't think this issue is decided by forum pvp. The devs either have already seen it and are taking action (or inaction), or will see it and take action (or inaction). I'm fairly sure the number of TRs on the forum has absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this issue. If it did, I would be very concerned for the future of the game (and not because of this issue specifically).
Comments
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
if you ignore the shadow demise those powers that build the demise damage is wai the fact they get benefit from buff-debuff.( lets say u use duelist flury lashing blade smoke dazing strike in 6 seconds)
Maybe will be overpowered ( in case you have good debuffer do you have every day?) but that doesnt mean is a bug.
EDIT - the "fix" I stated does this:
you dealt 2000 (1000) damage with powers
instead of taking the 2000 for calculating the base damage of Shadow of Demise, you need to take the base damage, which is 1000.
Shadow of Demise would then deal the properly doubled 1000 (500), since it would be taking 50% of the base damage instead of 50% of the debuffed damage.
This is properly doubled damage:
1000 with 500
2000 (1000) with 1000 (500)
This is NOT properly doubled damage (how it currently works):
1000 with 500
2000 (1000) with 2000 (1000)
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
One has to do with power stacking and fundamental one, and another is a very specific to mod 12 new dungeon, the Orcus buff is a separate hit.
Now show me a single ACT of a TR single target for 500mil+ SoD on not Orcus. You know what, lets not go for 500mil, lets start for over 100mil, and remember for that you need 66mil damage in 6 seconds.
For added proof do it without the power issue, meaning single target only, no WoB.
ofc with all the debuffs you can stack (still capped, so bring as many as you want), no problem, I've counted as x3 damage, but maybe you can squeeze some more.
This is capped, it has nothing to do with flames.
Call it a bug, call it not a bug, whatever... but, please, enough of the half truths, and those selective numbers choices...
BTW: Anyone want to check how tyrannical threat is affected by debuffs? And I don't remember it being game breaking overpowered on live right now, or the entire SW class actually....
I guess if they fix the powerlooping on TR they could leave sod as it is without it beeing op. Just the new dungeon is so perfect to "abuse" this. All bosses have adds so a TR can pretty easy stack up to 1+mio power. If you then combine that with SoD scaling u will get numbers in the 100+ mio range easily. The only limiting factor to this is how long the boss/trash stays alive cause u could scale your dmg till infinity. I dont want to sound like im campaigning for TR nerfes but that mechanic isnt good for the game. Its as broken as mod 9 weapons of light where the dcs could stack u up to negative power numbers.
Edit: We need the TR rework so they can fix broken stuff and compensate for the dmg loss at the same time
Edit2: i dont want TR share the same faith as SW where they balanced the class around scaling TC and later decided to remove the scaling and thus overnerfing it. Same could happen to TR if you have bad luck.
Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to it by the Rogue. Piercing damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor.
Current SoD in Live server does exactly what it says it does, except not counting in some Weapon Enchantments and AoC. Counts the damage in the 6 second window and applies it to target as Piercing (unmitigated) damage. It is based on mitigated damage which was done in 6 second window since that damage was benefiting from debuffs. SoD hit itself as unmitigated damage hit didnt benefit from debuffs. It was exactly half of the total damage done.
In Preview server we have a change which allows Piercing damage to benefit from debuffs. When SoD was designed Piercing damage wasnt benefiting from debuffs and now with change to Piercing damage we have a conflict. SoD tooltip doesnt apply anymore if it doesnt get updated with additional line: It is further increased by debuffs on target.
I dont know how they will handle this but current SoD tooltip and change to Piercing damage cannot coexist.
If SoD is changed back to how it is in Live server then the change to Piercing damage doesnt apply to it and makes it not wai.
In preview it benefits from Debuffs and is further increased and that is wai. Problem is it doesnt do anymore what tooltip says it does, it is not 50% of the damage dealt anymore.
If SoD gets a change and is based on unmitigated damage during 6 second window that would mean a nerf and it would be weaker than it currently is in Live.
It is weird for SoD to be higher than the damage it is based on (since its not what the tooltip says) but we have to thank Piercing damage change for that.
If this was done on purpose and this is their solution for TR balance then it is really poorly done. Scoundrel was dead, now this is death sentence for Saboteur as well.
Also, big SoD hits are happening because of WoB stacking. You will not see insane SoD hits without stacking WoB. Dont blame SoD for it.
Personally i dont like this change. I have nothing against SoD being back to normal as it is in Live (even tho that would not be wai due to Piercing damage change), if they can do proper class balance.
My point that the SoD numbers are not the core of the issue. The big numbers in this case are a combination of things, specifically the orcus buff and power-loop. The debuff thing just made the interaction more obvious. And no I'm not saying it needs to stay, but at the same time I don't agree with the "game breaking bug". It was changed with all the piercing damage, now it needs to be decided if it will be an exception, or the source will be calculated pre-debuffs, or a different approach.
Design choices (and balance issues) and bugs are not the same.
500 mil SoD?
I think with a good PT, this might be almost the total DPS of a TR in the FBI
Either SoD is not wai or the change to piercing damage is not wai. Up to the devs to decide. Both cannot be active at the same time as they are now and in the same time be wai.
actual damage: 1000
unmitigated damage: (1000)
Live (100% effective):
1000 with 500 damage sod
Using Base (100% effective):
1000 with 500 damage sod
Live (200% effective):
2000 (1000) with 1000 damage sod
Using Base (200% effective):
2000 (1000) with 1000 (500) damage sod
Live (300% effective):
3000 (1000) with 1500 damage sod
Using Base (300% effective):
3000 (1000) with 1500 (500) damage sod
As long as the same debuffs were on at the end, it should be identical to the strength it was on live. It also removes the issue where it is now double mitigated by tenacity in pvp.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Anyway, even with that change it would be no different than current SoD in Live. If current state in Preview is intended as TR buff then with change to base it on unmitigated damage would nullify the buff.
Another thing, we have no guarantee debuffs will be the same in moment when SoD hits as they were during the 6 counting seconds, which could make it go up and down and that would mean not working what it says in tooltip.
Also it would mean changing the feat to accommodate the changes to Piercing damage so the feat could be same as in Live atm.
I dont know if any HR piercing abilities are being changed so they stay the same as they are in Live.
As per rgutscheradev's words
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
duration 15 seconds.
with zen market price a transcended enchant should cost 9m ad if you think 7.2m is overpriced.
"This SoD change is a good change"
"We embrace this change"
"This SoD change is a good change"
"We embrace this change"
LOL
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John