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PvP "match" making - needs a fix pronto
ibz4ez
Member Posts: 117 Arc User
I'm sure just about everyone is sick one way or another of constantly unbalanced matches.
Whether you've got a bad team, they have a bad team or your just bad yourself; most players will often find themselves stuck in matches where your team of the other team simply refuses to even fight - and rightfully so! Why should they bother to take up arms against such unbalanced matches?
To be honest this style of matchmaking shouldn't have even made it past the beta of this game. Even Call Of Duty does it better than neverwinter.
Most players find that they have to "force feed" 2 premade matches of friends to play each other just to have the intense and enjoyable PvP experience everyone craves.
So my complaint here is simple.
1) This frankly HAMSTER matchmaking system needs to be replaced pronto.
2) There are more people in this PvP Discussion worried about class imbalances that will NEVER get resolved.
3) The developer's haven't replied to a single thread in this discussion for ages - more worried about pumping out repetitive campaigns in PvE to satisfy the already bored BiS player base who will find it no challenge at all.
But I'm not without solutions.
Here are some solutions, in rank order of best to worst fixes:
1) Permanent Solo Queue where players in it and standard domination Queue CANNOT be matched with anyone anymore than 2k gearscore higher than them (In premade this should be extended to 3k). (This should scale with LvL of course. E.g. for PvP lvls 60-69 threshold should be 1,5k Gearscore Difference rather than 2k).
2) PvP "Gear" should be removed as the stats gained by wearing it either make no difference at all to some classes (Like Paladins + GFs) and make other weaker classes stupidly hard to kill (HRs with high HP or CWs).
3) For PvP only, there needs to be diminishing returns for Power, Crit and Defence.
Here are some solutions, in rank order of easiest to implement:
1) Permanent Solo Queue Event.
2) Remove Tenacity stats from all armour
3) Remove PvP gear altogether and replace it with something more suitable AND stylish (Let's be honest the grim sets look GRIM AF).
4) Diminishing Returns for Power, Crit and Defence.
5) Rework the matchmaking such as players of higher gearscore CANNOT be in matches with players of 2k gearscore lower.
Anyone else who wishes to contribute to this discussion just put your thoughts down, with any luck eventually someone in PWE might read this discussion and realise how stupid they've been for being unable to sort this stuff out years ago and get right to it.
I mean come on, they custom coded a 3D mount with a 2D image behind it or in it. Everyone saw that developer stream that was challenging AF. They should find these fixes EASY compared to that.
Whether you've got a bad team, they have a bad team or your just bad yourself; most players will often find themselves stuck in matches where your team of the other team simply refuses to even fight - and rightfully so! Why should they bother to take up arms against such unbalanced matches?
To be honest this style of matchmaking shouldn't have even made it past the beta of this game. Even Call Of Duty does it better than neverwinter.
Most players find that they have to "force feed" 2 premade matches of friends to play each other just to have the intense and enjoyable PvP experience everyone craves.
So my complaint here is simple.
1) This frankly HAMSTER matchmaking system needs to be replaced pronto.
2) There are more people in this PvP Discussion worried about class imbalances that will NEVER get resolved.
3) The developer's haven't replied to a single thread in this discussion for ages - more worried about pumping out repetitive campaigns in PvE to satisfy the already bored BiS player base who will find it no challenge at all.
But I'm not without solutions.
Here are some solutions, in rank order of best to worst fixes:
1) Permanent Solo Queue where players in it and standard domination Queue CANNOT be matched with anyone anymore than 2k gearscore higher than them (In premade this should be extended to 3k). (This should scale with LvL of course. E.g. for PvP lvls 60-69 threshold should be 1,5k Gearscore Difference rather than 2k).
2) PvP "Gear" should be removed as the stats gained by wearing it either make no difference at all to some classes (Like Paladins + GFs) and make other weaker classes stupidly hard to kill (HRs with high HP or CWs).
3) For PvP only, there needs to be diminishing returns for Power, Crit and Defence.
Here are some solutions, in rank order of easiest to implement:
1) Permanent Solo Queue Event.
2) Remove Tenacity stats from all armour
3) Remove PvP gear altogether and replace it with something more suitable AND stylish (Let's be honest the grim sets look GRIM AF).
4) Diminishing Returns for Power, Crit and Defence.
5) Rework the matchmaking such as players of higher gearscore CANNOT be in matches with players of 2k gearscore lower.
Anyone else who wishes to contribute to this discussion just put your thoughts down, with any luck eventually someone in PWE might read this discussion and realise how stupid they've been for being unable to sort this stuff out years ago and get right to it.
I mean come on, they custom coded a 3D mount with a 2D image behind it or in it. Everyone saw that developer stream that was challenging AF. They should find these fixes EASY compared to that.
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so how are you planning on enforcing locking this gear lol ??/ the player can Q with low item level then just switch to a different spec at the campfire///
I would like to see the Solo Q be permanent. It's almost like some of the players (and guilds) are in there as paid employees to prevent anyone from ever getting a win for their shards or even think about coming back...dollars to the zen store cause that is ONLY place you are getting those shards....conspiracy theory in the making.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
you dont get it it will "read you item level while you are in pve " in Q and not necessarily in pvp gear / mode
people still want to adventure and do thier dailies while in Q you cant lock thier equipment if not they will be gimped for pvp and unable to switch
also item level does not necessarily mean skill and people at the top of the bracket would never find a match with such strict ranges ...some classes also perform better at mid item levels then others and some need to be maxed out
this would not be reflected in such a system
having a high item level does not mean a persone has optimal Pvp powers or gear either and would sabotage a team of experienced high item level players in such a system
What's the point of your 4th suggestion? If players don't hit as hard and don't have as much defence I see no change there.
Probably complicated but it's about the only option for decent matchmaking. That or a leaderboard where you can not go down in rank....wins equal higher rank with no way to reduce it.
I stll prefer by wins tho that way all the afker bots and scrubs eventually all end up in the same Q where they deserve each other
to repeat myself ..
ITEM LEVEL IS NOT A RELIABLE INDICATOR OF SKILL OR POWER SECTION OR BUILD FOR PVP THAT A PLAYER MIGHT HAVE and some classes work better and survive / kill better even not maxed out and vise vesra
BY bracketing you can twink yourself to be just below the max it a bracket and pown everyone ..
and have no incentive to play / upgrade gear/ boons etc
an experienced co ordinated team with mikes will always Destroy the other team regardless of bracketing or item levels ... people and premades will gear down on purpose .... then where is your balance >>
also like I warned in feedback the devs chose not to include any potions or buffs in item level
so someone buffed and potted to the max entering the lowermost level bracket will destroy everyone as well due to the buffs being equivalent of approx 38 level 12 enchants !!!
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1230908/fully-potted-pvp
Essentially there are no defined roles for these classes in PvP. Like a SW can tank if he wants (using high lifesteal) GFs do damage so do paladins so do DCs.
But complaining about class mechanics won't help because the devs don't give a sh*t.
But hopefully fixing the matchmaking will go a long way to making PvP a better experience and attracting some old players back to the game.
I'm sorry that's just wrong. Doesn't matter how skilled you are if you don't have near BiS gear you die end of story.
Also people at the top bracket probably will find matches because there will be more people joining them as the pugs become geared through sensible matchmaking.
why? now first PvP gear can be found in tarmalune bar store. What's problem?
I think that people without some tenecity level shoudn't ably to join PvP. Why no regulated tenecity level ? No regulated TIL ?
this is your topic and YOUR suggestions ...
your comment ..
"I'm sorry that's just wrong. Doesn't matter how skilled you are if you don't have near BiS gear you die end of story".
this is a truthful statement that you know to be true and we all know to be true ... it is the cause for your suggestion but not the end result of what will happen with brackets ... it does not invalidate any of my arguments it only makes you look like to are grasping for straws or are not articulating yourself enough ....
its true in context (if you don't have near BiS gear you die end of story) but if you are close you wont ..and you dont always encounter someones like that they are not the majority of the population
I think you are living on another planet the premiss here is that you want to have some sort of brackets. and that pvp match making needs a fix it has nothing to do with high end fully geared players that is the minority of the population... and is the problem you are attempting to "SOLVE" by introducing brackets no ??
if there were to be brackets or matching by item level ... then you would not be encountering THESE near BIs players
YOU WOULD BE ENCOUNTERING OTHER (bis ) ONES THAT ARE BEST IN THIER BRACKET and forever trapped there to troll
It does not matter how skilled you are and even if you are bis if you have a bad build or crummy pve power slotted you will die ... and then where is your item level balance there???????
again i will say item level is not a reliable indicator of skill especially if there were to by hypothetical mid and low tier brackets... you would have a mix of experienced players on their alts (with potentially better pvp guild boons) .. and players that have no clue what they are doing all with the same item level ..
why should these experienced / average / players on alts .(players of low item levels ) matches be sabotaged by being be lumped with players that dont try and like to lose or are there to make quick ads and be forever lumped in a bracket with them
and by the opposite token/ argument why should new player that are just learning their powers(any may have less power points) be put into high pressure / stakes matches with players that are fully knowledgeable / built just not geared ... and then get owned
your bracketing does not solve the disparity in power points/ selection that a player may have over another regardless of item level .. which is also big deal
matchmaking need to be by wins.. to match determined players together .. and afkers / kickers and scrubs together ... eventually if the elo is working properly
a low geared determined player that knows what he is doing can still be invisible defensive and help cap a node etc
wheras a high gear player that is not fighting on node and not helping cap can be a boat anchor and useless and sabotaging high item level matches and then constantly getting kicked ..
just lol dude of corse pot issues can be undone with hypothetical fixes I am just stating how it is now and how they (devs )chose to ignore them .. and by the way all stats would have to be adjusted not just the ones you listed ..
I already addressed in the previous post how players can twink just at the level of thier solo Q / normal Q bracket by experience and power selection alone essentially gaming these pvp brackets ..
your suggestions are just not thought out for the big pvp picture and the nature of players to try to circumvent and get around and game a system / screw other players over and the need for Cryptic to make money by selling power
you are trying to bring balance by creating further imbalance ..
I still have responses left to some of your other "suggestions" too dont worry lol
as simple / difficult as 3d coding a mount
ibz4ez#9773 said:
"Remove PvP gear altogether and replace it with something more suitable AND stylish (Let's be honest the grim sets look GRIM AF)"
cosmetics is going to fix pvp LOL
Problem is developer's don't care no matter what you do so might as well focus on other aspects.
Addressing the bottom half:
It does not matter how skilled you are and even if you are bis if you have a bad build or crummy pve power slotted you will die ... and then where is your item level balance there???????
Yes for players that are newbies that haven't a clue what they're doing with feats or powers the matches will be difficult because they will be up against players that know what they're doing. However, that isn't the fault of the players. In a perfect world (no pun intended) it wouldn't matter which ability combos you used because each class would be well balanced and have a wide range of usefull and adequately powered abilities to choose from.
But actually by wins doesn't really work. Because the stats are reset for PvP very often. And also it doesn't account for the large population of BiS or nearly BiS players that lose lots of matches because they're against premades.
What would be IDEAL. The very best solution they could possibly make.
Would be do create a PvP Item Level Stat. SO that depending on what gear you have and how well you perform in PvP you get a number ranging from 1-14k just like iLevel works for PvE.
But because I'm trying to go with solutions that won't make the Devs get too far off their bums to do some work, solutions that won't involve lots of configuration and testing (because let's be honest, remaking the entire matchmaking system based on such a PvP item level statistic will take the devs years to get right), is a much more appropriate solution to go with as going just by Item Level requires less time on the devs behalf and is easier to get right.
It's a leap in the right direction is the point I'm making.
And besides as much as I'd like to create a solution that works for every single player out there, I believe that there are more BiS PvP players in this game currently (at least for PC) than there are complete newbies. So it's better to work for the majority.
^^
Hope this helps you understand my decision for suggesting a matchmaking system based on gear level alone rather than anything else.
Yes there are better solutions like as I replied to his/her comment ^^
However, my suggestions are designed to be what's easiest and best to implement into the game, not what is going to make it perfect. Because quite simply the Developer's don't care what you or I make of any of their game. The best we can do is present plausible options to them that are easy to implement and make *some* difference. Your suggestion that some players might decide to go down brackets in an attempt to cheat the system. This is probably true. However, that is FAR better (in terms of balancing) than having lower tier brackets face that player AT THEIR FULL STRENGTH.
Hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from with this.
For that reason I'm going to choose to ignore everything else you say, because at the end of the day people who cannot find something useful to say aren't useful at all - period
funny for someone that thinks I do not have useful things to say you sure devoted a lot of time to responding to all my good points thx bro this is a Pvp Forum if you cant take a friendly jab here and there .. come on lighten up ..
And I am the few player left here that will actually devote time to the pvp forums
"But actually by wins doesn't really work. Because the stats are reset for PvP very often. And also it doesn't account for the large population of BiS or nearly BiS players that lose lots of matches because they're against premades. "
my guildy ayroux already explained how such a win system would work in this thread
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1231983/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-changes-and-pvp
bis players play more matches then average pve player therefore achieve more wins on average regardless if they go against premades and would be lumped together in the upper brackets anyways
and if some one was in the solo Q system and it was ranking you by wins premades dont exsist
ibz4ez said
"What would be IDEAL. The very best solution they could possibly make.
Would be do create a PvP Item Level Stat. SO that depending on what gear you have and how well you perform in PvP you get a number ranging from 1-14k just like iLevel works for PvE."
oh you you mean elo / the status quo // or basically what i said ..
ya i dont care it can put wins and gear together .. and use gear as some starting point where to put a player on the match ranking chart
my guildy already explained how such a win system would work in this thread
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1231983/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-changes-and-pvp