I think the question is "If I use Focused Wizardry (+30% damage to Single Target, -10% damage to AoE)", does AoC benefit from the +30% buff (meaning it's counting as single target)? Does it depend on the power that triggered it?
I'm not certain about that answer... I can try to see if I can test with a CW friend over the weekend but recently it's been getting harder to find time to play.
Yeah you read my other thread, in general it'd be nice to know if AoC is an inherited proc or independent.
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
Yes, if you open the spoilers I have in the OP you can see how it appears in the combat log.
It's actually really nice for testing things on live, since it generates consistent damage numbers (no damage range).
If you get to it tonight that's excellent, otherwise I can try to do it this weekend
Wheel of Elements: Fire is an additional damage proc (similar to Aura of Courage itself) that is based on the original hit. Why is it listed as an exception to the damage buff rule, when it is not a damage buff?
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
AoC behaves as an inherited proc, meaning it is treated as single target or AoE based on the underlying power that proc'd it. It scales with Focused Wizardry accordingly.
(tested with disintegrate and steal time, with 0, 1, 2, and 3 points in focused wizardry)
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
AoC behaves as an inherited proc, meaning it is treated as single target or AoE based on the underlying power that proc'd it. It scales with Focused Wizardry accordingly.
(tested with disintegrate and steal time, with 0, 1, 2, and 3 points in focused wizardry)
Well, I was about to come in here saying the opposite, but after thinking about my test for a bit I think I realized why I got different results. I'll see if I can redo it the next time I can find a pally to afk next to me.
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
AoC behaves as an inherited proc, meaning it is treated as single target or AoE based on the underlying power that proc'd it. It scales with Focused Wizardry accordingly.
(tested with disintegrate and steal time, with 0, 1, 2, and 3 points in focused wizardry)
Well, I was about to come in here saying the opposite, but after thinking about my test for a bit I think I realized why I got different results. I'll see if I can redo it the next time I can find a pally to afk next to me.
My test was pretty rigorous (I tested more than I alluded to above, just to be sure), and i recorded hits for both single target and AoE spells for every focused wizardry condition.
I'm fairly confident in my claim above XD
However, do note that not all things that seem like they should count as AoE count as AoE. And similarly not all things that seem like they should count as single target count as single target. Makes testing confusing sometimes...
I'm definitely inclined to believe you, my test was pretty quick. My guildies are always helpful, but I still always feel guilty asking them to stand around during their gaming time.
I don't think it was the AoE/single target throwing me off, it was more likely me not accounting for my other feats which messed things up.
I wish they would have explained it A lot better because personally with the wording they used here is how I figured it (Should, have been) 1% of Max Health (of Paladin) Rank 2 + 10% of Max Health, Rank 3 + 10% Max Health, Rank 4 + 10% Max Health for a total of 31% of Max Health as Damage for AoC. If they wanted to be accurate shouldn't they have said + 10% of Rank 1? I'm probably one of the few people that expected it to be this way and maybe I'm a fool for thinking it would be but that IS what it sounds like. Further since it is the topic, does anyone know if AoC affects Companions? I know that in a lot of cases it wouldn't be a HUGE amount of extra damage but any little bit helps.
I wish they would have explained it A lot better because personally with the wording they used here is how I figured it (Should, have been) 1% of Max Health (of Paladin) Rank 2 + 10% of Max Health, Rank 3 + 10% Max Health, Rank 4 + 10% Max Health for a total of 31% of Max Health as Damage for AoC. If they wanted to be accurate shouldn't they have said + 10% of Rank 1? I'm probably one of the few people that expected it to be this way and maybe I'm a fool for thinking it would be but that IS what it sounds like. Further since it is the topic, does anyone know if AoC affects Companions? I know that in a lot of cases it wouldn't be a HUGE amount of extra damage but any little bit helps.
If it was 31% of max health instead of 1.3%, and it still scaled as it does today, then it most certainly would be HUGELY overpowered.
Right now I think it's generally strong to very strong with optimized setups. Increasing the damage by an order of magnitude would likely make it the leading source of all damage in end-game dungeons.
And not to defend the horrible tooltips too much (they are horrible), but it does say +10% damage (as with many other +rank effects). So if you start with 1% and you add +10% damage, it's not entirely misleading to expect 1.1%
But I also agree that the fact that it's based off each individual's HP is kind of misleading. And it's silly that allies hit for 0.9% of their Max HP rather than 1%. But again, it's already relatively strong in the current state, so I don't think it needs significant rework unless it's part of major reworks down the line.
I wish they would have explained it A lot better because personally with the wording they used here is how I figured it (Should, have been) 1% of Max Health (of Paladin) Rank 2 + 10% of Max Health, Rank 3 + 10% Max Health, Rank 4 + 10% Max Health for a total of 31% of Max Health as Damage for AoC. If they wanted to be accurate shouldn't they have said + 10% of Rank 1? I'm probably one of the few people that expected it to be this way and maybe I'm a fool for thinking it would be but that IS what it sounds like. Further since it is the topic, does anyone know if AoC affects Companions? I know that in a lot of cases it wouldn't be a HUGE amount of extra damage but any little bit helps.
If it was 31% of max health instead of 1.3%, and it still scaled as it does today, then it most certainly would be HUGELY overpowered.
Right now I think it's generally strong to very strong with optimized setups. Increasing the damage by an order of magnitude would likely make it the leading source of all damage in end-game dungeons.
And not to defend the horrible tooltips too much (they are horrible), but it does say +10% damage (as with many other +rank effects). So if you start with 1% and you add +10% damage, it's not entirely misleading to expect 1.1%
But I also agree that the fact that it's based off each individual's HP is kind of misleading. And it's silly that allies hit for 0.9% of their Max HP rather than 1%. But again, it's already relatively strong in the current state, so I don't think it needs significant rework unless it's part of major reworks down the line.
Just my 2 cents XD
While I understand what you mean about being OP, when you consider the fact that the base set up of a paladin (not just form my experience but from a guy who says he has 12,000 Gear Score) This is a direct quote from him (sorry I don't remember the gamer tag) "A tank should never have to be healed, and should always have the lowest dps in a group" Which I personally think isn't really fair I mean after all what if a tank just wants to go through the story (like everyone else does) I've sat down and fought a group for over 4 minutes and got them killed (no problem keeping my health up) but I've seen others (while the enemies are focused on me, come through and kill the same group in under 20 seconds flat...) How is that really fair? I mean a Healer Does more damage then I do... Last time I checked (In the real world a TANK, has one Big GUN on it that does Extremely Heavy Damage...) In short the math maybe correct but if it is then they really really took most of the fun out of being a "Tank" Just to give you something to think on Look at Survivors Gift (on mine with my hp being 131,376) it says "You are healed for 1.2% of your max hp over 4 seconds (246 hit points every second)" Alright so 131376 * .012 (that is 1.2% right, pretty sure but feel free to let me know if I'm wrong) = 1576.512 Or rounded 1576.51 (or if you don't like the .51) 1,577 / 4 (since this is for each second... and you get.. 394.25, with the rounded number) without rounding you get 394.128 Either number though doesn't look anything like 246... So somethings wrong here Oh and if 1,577 is 1.2% of max then how can "Barbarians Delight" (which says it gives .5% of your max hp (on my character with the hp being 131376) show up as "1971" like the game says it is? Because unless I've forgotten more then I think about math 1.2% is more then .5% cause if I remember correctly that means that it's saying 1% is 3942 which means that Survivors Gift (on my character) should be more along 3942 / 4 = 958.5 + per a second of healing not no 246. Sorry if it seems off topic (it probably is mostly, though I'm using this to show that if the math the game uses for AoC could be more then just a little... off
Side note (feel free to move this if needed) Barbarians Revelry "You are healed for 1.5% of your Maximum hit points (again My character) (1,971 hit points)" Barbarians Delight "You are healed for .5% of your Maximum hit points (again My Character) (1,971 hit points)"
So according to this game... 1.5% AND .5% of my Maximum hit points are 1,971 hit points. If I need more proof about how messed up this is... then please show me proof of that I'm wrong.
Any idea of how AoC works with some of the HR powers? Specifically:
* Does it proc from Bleed effects such as Rain of Swords or Gushing Wound? * Is it procced by Blade Hurricane? * Do you know if the damage from Careful Attack proc AoC? * Does damage from indirect attacks like Frozen Reflection proc AoC?
I've seen some discussion of HighHP CWs using AoC for a significant portion of their damage, I was curious if that same line of thought could be applied to other classes.
Any idea of how AoC works with some of the HR powers? Specifically:
* Does it proc from Bleed effects such as Rain of Swords or Gushing Wound? * Is it procced by Blade Hurricane? * Do you know if the damage from Careful Attack proc AoC? * Does damage from indirect attacks like Frozen Reflection proc AoC?
I've seen some discussion of HighHP CWs using AoC for a significant portion of their damage, I was curious if that same line of thought could be applied to other classes.
Thanks
I dun have an HR, but I can try to pull a friend to help me test.
My gut is that it behaves similarly to weapon enchantments in many regards, meaning that it gets proc'd by powers, but not procs (that's how it appears to work for CW as well, it just so happens that CWs have significant self-buffs and rotate a lot of encounters quickly = significant AoC damage).
Anecdotally in FBI, I've seen AoC make up less of an HR's damage than CW's damage, but still a significant portion.
While I understand what you mean about being OP, when you consider the fact that the base set up of a paladin (not just form my experience but from a guy who says he has 12,000 Gear Score) This is a direct quote from him (sorry I don't remember the gamer tag) "A tank should never have to be healed, and should always have the lowest dps in a group"
Couple thoughts here. First, even though it doesn't matter much for this discussion, my tank is over 15,000 GS, and I've completed all end-game content with that tank (also with other characters while running along side competent prot-OP tanks). So maybe I'm not completely clueless here XD.
With that in mind, I generally agree that tanks should not have to be healed. They should self-heal sufficiently and prot-OPs especially should have temp HP stacked to the sky and for the most part don't dip into real health at all (save for niche oath-building for power share burst).
But I absolutely disagree that tanks should have the lowest dps in a group. Prot-OPs don't have as many options for hard taunts as GFs, and so we need to keep up damage to maintain threat. If you're not doing at least ~1/5 of the top DPS's damage then you may find you're struggling to keep the boss's attention. And in most parties, that would put you somewhere in the middle of the party in terms of damage contribution.
BTW I saw what you mentioned about the % max HP insignia bonuses. I would confirm first that it's actually healing you the wrong amount, rather than just displaying the wrong tooltip.
Most HRs who run FBI are trappers; I run a combat build, and if AoC can proc off of Blade Hurricane, that could result in a really sizable boost in damage. If you need a combat HR to test things out look me up in-game @rubytrue. If needed, veywiil and a few other know where to find me.....
Has anyone tested to see if the Damage Bonus from the Demonlord's Immortality set impacts AoC?
According to @thefabricant in CW mechanics guide - no.
BTW, who calls Orcus set like that?
To clarify, I tested if my AoC damage as a CW was increased by me wearing the Orcus set. I did not test if an OPs AoC damage is increased by the OP wearing the Orcus Set. I did test if an OP wearing the Orcus set increased my AoC damage though and that didn't work either.
Based on each individual's current max HP, including temporary sources of HP like food (but not "temporary HP"). AoC is not based solely on the OP's HP (the tooltip is unclear and could be interpreted wrong).
Ok so I know somebody that says he tests stuff for cryptic, and he said that it has been corrected and that AoC is now based on the pally HP (and not on each invidual HP anymore). Is that complete BS ?
Ok so I know somebody that says he tests stuff for cryptic, and he said that it has been corrected and that AoC is now based on the pally HP (and not on each invidual HP anymore). Is that complete BS ?
Most days it feels like we all just test stuff for Cryptic. It's complete BS XD
That guy is wrong about AoC working based on Pally HP too.
Comments
Does AoC damage show up in the combat log in game? If so I might be able to test exactly focused wizardry tonight if I can get a pally to stand next to me for a few minutes.
It's actually really nice for testing things on live, since it generates consistent damage numbers (no damage range).
If you get to it tonight that's excellent, otherwise I can try to do it this weekend Fixed the OP to be more clear, thanks
AoC behaves as an inherited proc, meaning it is treated as single target or AoE based on the underlying power that proc'd it. It scales with Focused Wizardry accordingly.
(tested with disintegrate and steal time, with 0, 1, 2, and 3 points in focused wizardry)
I'm fairly confident in my claim above XD
However, do note that not all things that seem like they should count as AoE count as AoE. And similarly not all things that seem like they should count as single target count as single target. Makes testing confusing sometimes...
I don't think it was the AoE/single target throwing me off, it was more likely me not accounting for my other feats which messed things up.
If it is ground targetted, then it does not proc, e.g., Flame Strike.
There is an OP Point Blank AoE (where you are the target) that procs it. Do other PBAoE's proc it as well?
Right now I think it's generally strong to very strong with optimized setups. Increasing the damage by an order of magnitude would likely make it the leading source of all damage in end-game dungeons.
And not to defend the horrible tooltips too much (they are horrible), but it does say +10% damage (as with many other +rank effects). So if you start with 1% and you add +10% damage, it's not entirely misleading to expect 1.1%
But I also agree that the fact that it's based off each individual's HP is kind of misleading. And it's silly that allies hit for 0.9% of their Max HP rather than 1%. But again, it's already relatively strong in the current state, so I don't think it needs significant rework unless it's part of major reworks down the line.
Just my 2 cents XD
Just to give you something to think on Look at Survivors Gift (on mine with my hp being 131,376) it says "You are healed for 1.2% of your max hp over 4 seconds (246 hit points every second)" Alright so 131376 * .012 (that is 1.2% right, pretty sure but feel free to let me know if I'm wrong) = 1576.512 Or rounded 1576.51 (or if you don't like the .51) 1,577 / 4 (since this is for each second... and you get.. 394.25, with the rounded number) without rounding you get 394.128 Either number though doesn't look anything like 246... So somethings wrong here Oh and if 1,577 is 1.2% of max then how can "Barbarians Delight" (which says it gives .5% of your max hp (on my character with the hp being 131376) show up as "1971" like the game says it is? Because unless I've forgotten more then I think about math 1.2% is more then .5% cause if I remember correctly that means that it's saying 1% is 3942 which means that Survivors Gift (on my character) should be more along 3942 / 4 = 958.5 + per a second of healing not no 246. Sorry if it seems off topic (it probably is mostly, though I'm using this to show that if the math the game uses for AoC could be more then just a little... off
Barbarians Revelry "You are healed for 1.5% of your Maximum hit points (again My character) (1,971 hit points)"
Barbarians Delight "You are healed for .5% of your Maximum hit points (again My Character) (1,971 hit points)"
So according to this game... 1.5% AND .5% of my Maximum hit points are 1,971 hit points. If I need more proof about how messed up this is... then please show me proof of that I'm wrong.
* Does it proc from Bleed effects such as Rain of Swords or Gushing Wound?
* Is it procced by Blade Hurricane?
* Do you know if the damage from Careful Attack proc AoC?
* Does damage from indirect attacks like Frozen Reflection proc AoC?
I've seen some discussion of HighHP CWs using AoC for a significant portion of their damage, I was curious if that same line of thought could be applied to other classes.
Thanks
My gut is that it behaves similarly to weapon enchantments in many regards, meaning that it gets proc'd by powers, but not procs (that's how it appears to work for CW as well, it just so happens that CWs have significant self-buffs and rotate a lot of encounters quickly = significant AoC damage).
Anecdotally in FBI, I've seen AoC make up less of an HR's damage than CW's damage, but still a significant portion. Couple thoughts here. First, even though it doesn't matter much for this discussion, my tank is over 15,000 GS, and I've completed all end-game content with that tank (also with other characters while running along side competent prot-OP tanks). So maybe I'm not completely clueless here XD.
With that in mind, I generally agree that tanks should not have to be healed. They should self-heal sufficiently and prot-OPs especially should have temp HP stacked to the sky and for the most part don't dip into real health at all (save for niche oath-building for power share burst).
But I absolutely disagree that tanks should have the lowest dps in a group. Prot-OPs don't have as many options for hard taunts as GFs, and so we need to keep up damage to maintain threat. If you're not doing at least ~1/5 of the top DPS's damage then you may find you're struggling to keep the boss's attention. And in most parties, that would put you somewhere in the middle of the party in terms of damage contribution.
BTW I saw what you mentioned about the % max HP insignia bonuses. I would confirm first that it's actually healing you the wrong amount, rather than just displaying the wrong tooltip.
BTW, who calls Orcus set like that?
Is that complete BS ?
That guy is wrong about AoC working based on Pally HP too. According to @greyjay1 Orcus set on OP affects OP's AoC damage, so at least there's that (but allies don't)
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231686/pve-paladin-guide-by-greyjay1-slappdaniel-and-its-viraaal/p3