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Which Weapon Enchantments INCREASE AOC Damage?

niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
edited May 2017 in The Citadel
I hear some work and some do not.
Which are the best?
Any unique interactions?
Thank you for sharing what you know.

Niadain

Comments

  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    I remember from old Sharp's Compendium, that only Feytouched could increase it, not sure how about now (don't have one to test), but I think it should since Fey is 1.18 damage multiplier at Trans.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    I haven't re-tested recently, but following the WE changes I confirmed Fey was still buffing AoC (that's one of the reasons I run it on my Prot-OP)

    I don't believe any of the other WEs interact with it in any way, but haven't tested extensively to make sure.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    So plus damage effects are only buffs to AOC? Does AOC have any other interactions I should be aware of?
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    I'm really not an OP expert, but with some help from @veywiil here is the rundown.

    AoC is based on each individual's current max HP (not solely the OP's, as the misleading tooltip might lead someone to believe). It's affected by damage buffs on players/party and debuffs on enemies. It is affected by power. I am unsure if it's affected by attribute modifier on allies (OPs don't have a +dmg attrib), and I'd need a friend to test that.

    Edited for clarity and after being put in my place ;)
    Post edited by dupeks on
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    I'm not an OP expert, but not that I'm aware of. It's based on each individual's current max HP (not solely the OP's, UNLIKElike the tooltip implies). It's affected by damage buffs on players and debuffs on enemies. It IS not affected by power. I forget if it's affected by attribute modifier, but I don't think so. Constitution indirectly increases damage from the hp% gain.

    Let me fix this for you.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Does Wheel of Elements fire buff affect AOC damage? I heard it does not.
    Post edited by niadan on
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    dupeks said:

    I'm not an OP expert, but not that I'm aware of. It's based on each individual's current max HP (not solely the OP's, UNLIKElike the tooltip implies). It's affected by damage buffs on players and debuffs on enemies. It IS not affected by power. I forget if it's affected by attribute modifier, but I don't think so. Constitution indirectly increases damage from the hp% gain.

    Let me fix this for you.
    Thank you for corrections, especially about power impacting AoC. Big error on my part, and relatively easy to verify. Slipping up a bit recently, thanks for keeping me on my toes.

    Haha and rewording my parenthetical (although I will insist my way was also correct...)

    Proof of power below, based on very quick and dirty testing scenario.

    2,361 power 122,655 hp

    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 225 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2027 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 228 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2027 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 225 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:31] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2027 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.

    9,578 power 122,655 hp

    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 265 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2373 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 264 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2373 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 270 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:32] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2373 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.

    If you use Jannes tool, moving from 2,361 to 9,578 power should yield an incremental increase in dps of 17.074%. And 2373 / 2027 = 1.17069 which is 17.069%. Passes the sniff test for me.

    http://janne.coreside.com/mechanics/power
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    niadan said:

    Doew Wheel of Elements fire buff affect AOC damage? I heard it does not.

    Nope

    3,329 power 120,631 hp

    No Wheel
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 235 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2042 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 232 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2042 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.

    With Wheel
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 232 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2042 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Wheel of Elements: Fire deals 70 Fire Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 231 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2042 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [8:47] [Combat (Self)] Your Wheel of Elements: Fire deals 69 Fire Damage to Target Dummy.

    70/232 ~~ 30%. If AoC was included, Wheel would be hitting for way more.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Confirmed fey working.

    Quck and dirty testing 10,179 power 116,015 hp

    Fey equpped not proc'ed
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 2770 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 334 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 2973 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 285 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.

    Fey equipped proc'ed + CoP (2953/2271 = 1.30030823426 ~ 30% increase, as expected)
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 3754 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2953 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 380 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 4123 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2953 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 371 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.

    Templar's Wrath (CoP expired, so back to 2271)
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Templar's Wrath deals 12191 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Feytouched Weapon deals 897 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Templar's Wrath deals 6518 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 441 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Templar's Wrath deals 6261 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 510 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2271 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 451 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Templar's Wrath deals 6229 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.

    Fey Only (2680/2271 = 1.18009687362 ~ 18% increase, as expected)
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 3420 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2680 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 386 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 3149 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 2680 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:22] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 380 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.

    Fey + CoP (3484 /2271 = 1.53412593571 ~ (1.18*1.3=1.534) ~ 53.4% increase, as expected)
    [9:27] [Combat (Self)] Your Oath Strike deals 4192 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:27] [Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Courage deals 3484 Radiant Damage to Target Dummy.
    [9:27] [Combat (Self)] Your Feytouched Weapon deals 437 Psychic Damage to Target Dummy.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    In various testing scenarios I had different base cases. I was in SH, so no attrib changes (campfire always active) Do they pass the sniff test?

    Base Case
    3,329 power 120,631 hp
    2042 damage

    Case 1
    10,179 power 116,015 hp
    2271 damage
    Theoretical increase: 115.843% from power * 96.17% from HP difference = 1.11410214994 ~ 11.41% expected
    Real increase 2271/2042 = 1.11214495593 ~ 11.21% actual

    Case 2
    9,578 power 122,655 hp
    2373 damage
    Theoretical increase: 114.453% from power * 101.6778% from HP difference = 1.16373342798 ~16.37% expected
    Real increase 2373/2042 = 1.16209598433 ~ 16.21% actual

    With the way this game rounds, I find the results credible. Hopefully I've redeemed myself <3
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    dupeks said:

    With the way this game rounds, I find the results credible. Hopefully I've redeemed myself <3</p>

    Thank you for doing this so I don't have to. +1 Agree status earned.
    Results look fine at a mere glance.

    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    dupeks said:

    With the way this game rounds, I find the results credible. Hopefully I've redeemed myself <3</p>

    Thank you for doing this so I don't have to. +1 Agree status earned.
    Results look fine at a mere glance.

    Threw a reference doc up so we don't have to do this again. If you end up doing any more testing with it, maybe give a shout there:

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231530/reference-aura-of-courage/p1

    I'm throwing in the towel for today I think :)

    Cheers,

    Pickles
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    I am not an OP but a bored maxed out old time CW that decided to try a new Pally stalking build focusing on max AOC damage. I am currently at 232K HP and will be close to 240k un buffed once I fully level my Protectors set. Anyways, thought I would learn from the source of my obsession....lol. Any advise is well received!

    PS. If you think you see a CW stalking you out of the corner of your eye....it is probably me....your biggest fan! Lol
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    niadan said:

    I am not an OP but a bored maxed out old time CW that decided to try a new Pally stalking build focusing on max AOC damage. I am currently at 232K HP and will be close to 240k un buffed once I fully level my Protectors set. Anyways, thought I would learn from the source of my obsession....lol. Any advise is well received!



    PS. If you think you see a CW stalking you out of the corner of your eye....it is probably me....your biggest fan! Lol

    Ha, I'm doing something similar. I actually recently had a pally tell me they hated running with CWs because they couldn't see red areas underneath icy terrain. Broke my heart.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    dairyzeus said:

    niadan said:

    I am not an OP but a bored maxed out old time CW that decided to try a new Pally stalking build focusing on max AOC damage. I am currently at 232K HP and will be close to 240k un buffed once I fully level my Protectors set. Anyways, thought I would learn from the source of my obsession....lol. Any advise is well received!



    PS. If you think you see a CW stalking you out of the corner of your eye....it is probably me....your biggest fan! Lol

    Ha, I'm doing something similar. I actually recently had a pally tell me they hated running with CWs because they couldn't see red areas underneath icy terrain. Broke my heart.
    Tell that Paladin to git gud and watch the enemies, instead of watching their encounter cooldowns.

  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    Tell that Paladin to git gud and watch the enemies, instead of watching their encounter cooldowns.

    This is actually a very interesting thing to talk about, and that's the eye positioning of a paladin. My eyes fall directly on the tip of my stamina bar as the focus point. I can see in peripheral red area's as well as the stance of the boss. I am looking directly at AP meter, and stamina meter, as well as my character and where he is in the current animation so I know when to animation cancel. My Encounters are close enough to my vision that I know what cooldown timers they have measured in seconds, and red areas that effect me are also in line of sight.

    I do agree though icy terrain messes with you when you are fighting mobs and not a boss, its much harder to keep track of which many mobs doing which skills unless there are HUGE leads on them, like the fire bomb demons (Zythlars?)

    Maybe I need to 'git gud', but this is a serious concern.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    @veywiil#8685 BTW, how do you cancel animations exactly?
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited June 2017

    @veywiil#8685 BTW, how do you cancel animations exactly?

    Tapping shift

    It's helpful to cancel many animations, including stuff like BO and TW, but especially stuff with long silly animations like dragon heart artis.

    Some animations can be cancelled at precisely the right time to shave a fraction of a second off of the end, without cancelling or reducing the power effectiveness. Almost all animations can be cancelled very early to "cancel" the currently casting power, and that usually means the power doesn't actually get cast and goes on cooldown. But you'd still want to cancel a long cast power to get out of the way when there's a big hit or AoE coming up.
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited June 2017

    @veywiil#8685 BTW, how do you cancel animations exactly?

    There are a ton of tricks, the short of it is finding animations that override other ones. For example, your Shift (Sanctuary) will cancel MOST animations psuedo-instantly, so what you do is use encounter power 1, wait until you receive the benefit, but the animation isn't done... CoP is a great example, then animation cancel by giving shift the lightest of taps, and then using encounter power 2...

    Optimizing the chaining of animation cancelings together is one of the most mechanically intensive things to do. But instead of pressing buttons, your hands look like they are now dancing on the keyboard, and you get a DPS increase out of it as well.

    EDIT: Alot of people argue this is a bannable offense, but if you go back to MOD 6 patch notes, I do believe you can find the dev's PURPOSEFULLY put it into the game.

    EDIT2: @dupeks has annihilated me because I was being wordy.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    EDIT: Alot of people argue this is a bannable offense, but if you go back to MOD 6 patch notes, I do believe you can find the dev's PURPOSEFULLY put it into the game.

    I also very recently reached out to the moderation team to get clarity about animation cancelling for this very reason.

    Animation cancelling per se is not currently considered an exploit by the devs, even though it is a hot-button emotional issue. That bears repeating: animation cancelling as of right now is WAI and not exploiting. However, it's possible that some existing exploits make use of animation cancelling, and that's officially not cool.
  • thrilk#9892 thrilk Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    I am not a fan of the concept that, rather than fixing bugs, developers just label things as an exploit (see dungeon key peak incident). Fix your game guys.
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    @veywiil#8685 @dupeks That's what I thought. Shift on PC... Not gonna happen on consoles with L3 button unfortunately, my pad wouldn't survive long, and L3 is not that responsive as it can be on PC with Shift. If only I'd have a custom controller like Cinch with additional buttons I could re-map to L3 I'd try that. My animation cancelling is limited to using Wheel of Elements mid jump for fire buff.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    Tell that Paladin to git gud and watch the enemies, instead of watching their encounter cooldowns.

    This is actually a very interesting thing to talk about, and that's the eye positioning of a paladin. My eyes fall directly on the tip of my stamina bar as the focus point. I can see in peripheral red area's as well as the stance of the boss. I am looking directly at AP meter, and stamina meter, as well as my character and where he is in the current animation so I know when to animation cancel. My Encounters are close enough to my vision that I know what cooldown timers they have measured in seconds, and red areas that effect me are also in line of sight.

    I do agree though icy terrain messes with you when you are fighting mobs and not a boss, its much harder to keep track of which many mobs doing which skills unless there are HUGE leads on them, like the fire bomb demons (Zythlars?)

    Maybe I need to 'git gud', but this is a serious concern.
    The joke was that the Paladin in question needs to stop staring at their cooldown tab 24/7, and maybe watch where and when the enemies are attacking. Instead of just standing in front of enemies and mashing Templar's as fast as the Paladin can, the Paladin should try moving around, making choices on whether to dodge or facetank.

    I'm not sure that this is a very "Paladin-like" thing to do when tanking, but if you're not doing that on a GF, you pretty much die.

    And animation canceling Sacred Weapon is a pain, I know it's awesome for Paladin DPS, but seriously, that animation cancel kills me... literally sometimes.

  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    rjc9000 said:

    The joke was that the Paladin in question needs to stop staring at their cooldown tab 24/7, and maybe watch where and when the enemies are attacking


    *This is a limerick*
    I try not feign, the carpet stain
    with lack of a brain, you'll be in pain.
    The red circles are plenty fine;
    look, I'm not trying to whine...
    but, Icy Terrain is still a pain.

    Edit Interpretation for those who want it:
    I don't disagree with anything @rjc9000 is saying. I agree, that skill is important in playing and doing well as a paladin. But listen... Icy Terrain has caused even above average players to wipe thanks to complete and total visual obfuscation of the red circles, regardless of skill or attention.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Member Posts: 304 Arc User

    Icy Terrain has caused even above average players to wipe thanks to complete and total visual obfuscation of the red circles, regardless of skill or attention.

    Yeah, especially when controll wizards like myself put it down in the center of the lostmauth platform...
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    dairyzeus said:

    Icy Terrain has caused even above average players to wipe thanks to complete and total visual obfuscation of the red circles, regardless of skill or attention.

    Yeah, especially when controll wizards like myself put it down in the center of the lostmauth platform...
    Heh, a friend SW was once vote kicked because he used Pillar of Power there.
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