Tank Etiquette

remfdt

Hi all-

A purely hypothetical situation...
You get a cold-call invite to a FBI run with equivalent and relatively high ilvl toons (14-15k), but a less than optimal class mix... 3 gwf and a dps/buff spec dc. Since loadouts are awesome, you switch into your tanky spec (80%+ DR, 30pct deflect, 25% lifesteal, all before bonding procs) and swap in a few defensive-effect companions, a decent selection of consumables and you are gtg. You get asked to "mark everything" (i.e. use ET on packs), and to please use KV and ITF of course, so your encounter set up is decided too.

The ramp up the hill is painful, even after swapping gear to buff your resist up (~65%), as there is little healing and significant AoE-induced KV damage incoming. A slow motion, low-dps fail on the first boss nets you a "thanks, but you aren't cutting it" vote kick. A post-event ACT check shows you as the primary healer for the group, due to FR, lots of lifesteal, and disturbingly large number of healthstone heals...

So the etiquette questions: What, if any, response is appropriate? When, if ever, is it okay to dump KV in favor of personal survival? Is it purely "your" fault for agreeing to go in the first place?

rjc9000

remfdt said:

Hi all-

A purely hypothetical situation...
You get a cold-call invite to a FBI run with equivalent and relatively high ilvl toons (14-15k), but a less than optimal class mix... 3 gwf and a dps/buff spec dc. Since loadouts are awesome, you switch into your tanky spec (80%+ DR, 30pct deflect, 25% lifesteal, all before bonding procs) and swap in a few defensive-effect companions, a decent selection of consumables and you are gtg. You get asked to "mark everything" (i.e. use ET on packs), and to please use KV and ITF of course, so your encounter set up is decided too.

The ramp up the hill is painful, even after swapping gear to buff your resist up (~65%), as there is little healing and significant AoE-induced KV damage incoming. A slow motion, low-dps fail on the first boss nets you a "thanks, but you aren't cutting it" vote kick. A post-event ACT check shows you as the primary healer for the group, due to FR, lots of lifesteal, and disturbingly large number of healthstone heals...

So the etiquette questions: What, if any, response is appropriate? When, if ever, is it okay to dump KV in favor of personal survival? Is it purely "your" fault for agreeing to go in the first place?

easymodo? Health Stones? only elementary school kids are allowed to use Stones of Health!

The hill climb... probably the hardest or easily top 3 hardest parts of FBI.

If your team insists on aggroing mutiple enemies, there's only so much you can do, because it's pure chaos. Attacks flying, team formation split up, frantic dodging... it's a mess. I can keep track of multiple enemies, but having to keep track of 15 tough enemies, all of their animations, keep an eye where my team is, what I have aggro'd, what I have on cooldown, what I have available, and what I need to mark is sensory overload for me.

If you sense a DPSer is about to get hit by the boulder attack (ex: I see a DPSer getting proned and a red circle appears under him out of the corner of my eye), turn off KV immediately. Only a Paladin with millions of tempHP can survive that, so having one Great Compensating For Something Fighter down is better than having a GCFSF and a tank down.

If your team is willing to listen rather than "run in kill things to bump my epeen level", you can strategically pull mobs one by one and fight them in an area with lots of room to run. Dealing with 5 tough enemies with lots of room to move is manageable for me, but I'm not sure most teams will like that pace.

The first boss is not your problem unless you're failing to defend his attacks (which, you would know this already). The first boss is actually pretty easy to tank, as he's just a warmup/test to see if you have what it takes. If those GCFSFs insist on standing in red zones (especially when near the cliff), how is it your fault?

You should thank them for kicking you because they aren't wasting any more of your time.

And something tells me that this actually happened, given how oddly specific everything is...

remfdt

No, it was a total fabrication. Honest... and grr, I *luvs* my healthstones, dammit!

Er...

dread4moor

@remfdt
"So the etiquette questions: What, if any, response is appropriate?"
You lost me at " 3 GWF"
This is not an etiquette question.
Unless letting yourself be the beeyatch of 3 colorblind selfish GWFs is good manners.
That is a lose/lose composition for the tank.
If the run fails, you are responsible.
If the run succeeds, they are responsible... then go on to demand the same beeyatch slave service from the rest of us tanks.
HAMSTER that nonsense.

The appropriate response?
Put all three on ignore.
Be more selective in your party composition hereafter.
You forget: YOU are the scarce resource here, not them.

dupeks

Kind of mirroring the sentiments here... Tanks and healers usually aren't primarily responsible for party failure, I wouldn't apologize unless I know of something specific (disconnect, lag out, mistake that causes me to drop / team to wipe), especially if folks were not polite.

FWIW, I'm generally impressed if a GF KVarries the team up the mountain. I certainly don't expect it. If a team is relying on KV to stay up, they probably have no business in FBI anyhow...

santralafax

OTOH, I have run FBI as a GWF with 2 others, all high ilevel, and triumphed fairly easily/quickly. As a LFG PUG. Perhpas we were just lucky to have skilled Pally and cleric, but it was quite fun. High ilevel GWFs tend to have burned off alot of the run-ahead nonsense that mid-tier GWFs fall prey to.

GWFs are all colorblind, though. I wouldn't recommend KV in such a situation. Just lots of ITF.