Class roles

zenith

Hi. I was told that the queue system chooses a role for us depending on our paragon paths. I did a research about the paragon paths and their role but I didn't see many people confirming the roles. I made this topic with the hope to see opinions if I get the roles right.

CW, HR, TR, GWF, SW = DPS
DC = Healer
GF = Tank
OP = Tank or Healer

Someone said that the GWF can also tank a bit but I would like to know if it is placed as DPS only. Thanks in advance.

armadeonx

Yep that's how the system breaks them down. With the OP it decides based on your paragon path, Devoted gets the healer slot and Protection gets the tank slot.

mebengalsfan

armadeonx said:

Yep that's how the system breaks them down. With the OP it decides based on your paragon path, Devoted gets the healer slot and Protection gets the tank slot.

In one of my VT runs we ended up with a SW as our healer using the Temp build and had no DC or OP in the group.

I think it actually now looks at builds to ensure you can play said role with the exception of DC and GF.

dupeks

zenith#5318 said:

Hi. I was told that the queue system chooses a role for us depending on our paragon paths. I did a research about the paragon paths and their role but I didn't see many people confirming the roles. I made this topic with the hope to see opinions if I get the roles right.

CW, HR, TR, GWF, SW = DPS
DC = Healer
GF = Tank
OP = Tank or Healer

Someone said that the GWF can also tank a bit but I would like to know if it is placed as DPS only. Thanks in advance.

Edit: I HILARIOUSLY MISSED THE POINT. You are correct that the Queue system uses those designations. What follows is my tangent on how far real party composition deviates from the Queue system. So kind of off-topic.

The current system sucks because it doesn't account for possible "buff/support" roles. In my opinion, current end game meta favors buff/debuff in a party, as many can raise the party dps significantly more than the individual dps slot they are replacing. It's also worth noting that most classes have viable builds for more than one role (or for PVP, and that's usually separate and incompatible with PVE).

CW = DPS or buff/support (incl. off-heals)
HR = DPS or buff/support
TR = DPS
GWF = DPS
SW = DPS or buff/support (incl. off-heals)
DC = Healer or buff/support/off-tank (incl. off-heals)
GF = Tank or buff/support/off-tank
OP = Tank or Healer, both incl. buff/support

Most of those roles can to some extent be blended. So I could be a buff/support DC but sacrifice a little bit of group buffs for better heals resulting in a hybrid solution. Same can be said about tanks that can adjust to be more tanky or more supporty. Some of these hybrids require feat or boon changes that necessarily make them sub-optimal as their "primary" role, but in many cases that has little effect on the game (high level toons can take the hit and still effectively manage all current content). Others require just gear / power loadout changes, and can be hot-swapped as needed.

At very high levels, certain non-traditionally-dps classes can pack a significant punch. Notoriously, BiS GFs can be built to dish out massive damage while still providing some tanking and buff/support. Recent changes might results in similar possibilities for DCs, but that's still up in the air as folks digest the class rework. It's worth noting that these end-game builds are often a source of grief and bitterness as they upset class role "traditionalists". (Not entirely unjustified, as they can encourage lower level players to run builds that overextend themselves, unable to fill their primary role and not geared or experienced enough to contribute in the dps capacity. This also interferes somewhat with the pug q system, effectively resulting in tankless pug parties)

Final note: due to the large amount of self-healing through various sources (lifesteal stat, boons, insignia bonuses, and some gear) a dedicated party healer becomes less relevant with higher level parties. So you'll often see traditionally healing roles focus more on buff/support as they get up in ilvl, because that ends up bringing significantly more benefit to the party (because overhealing doesn't help anyone, and with enough dps all the baddies die before they can do much damage)

zenith

I'm leveling a DC but I'm worried if I will be viable if I pick Righteous talents and act as DPS because people accept DC mostly for healing and supporting. I really like this class but I don't feel like I want to be everyone's healbot.

dupeks

zenith#5318 said:

I'm leveling a DC but I'm worried if I will be viable if I pick Righteous talents and act as DPS because people accept DC mostly for healing and supporting. I really like this class but I don't feel like I want to be everyone's healbot.

I main a DC. Super versatile class, although soloing is a headache unless you are righteous (alleviated a little bit with the DC mod11 changes).

For leveling, I would go full righteous for full dps (with mod11 changes DO Righteous for lower geared DC, AC Righteous if you have solid gear + bondings).

Once you hit 70, if you are in a guild / alliance with solid groups, you can stay righteous with some tweaks. You'll still be able to heal a bit with divine glow, and you'll provide solid mitigation and enemy damage debuffs which contribute to the party significantly. And damage buffs, which are always desirable.

If you intend to pug / lfg a lot, switching over to a more heal-focused build is probably better until you get your ilvl up. Virtuous and Faithful are both viable, with 15 points in righteous for weps of light. You're right people will expect you to heal, and until you get power/crit up on a righteous build, you won't be healing enough to meet expectations.

Once you get above say... 3.5k ilvl (randomly pulled out of my hat) many folks switch back to righteous, because you're able to provide enough off-heals for most parties of a similar level.

That said, my main is a 4k+ AC Virtuous with 15 points in righteous for power sharing. So I focus on passive heals, and stacking power + recovery for frequent dailies and power stacking. I can reliably drop both HG + AA on bosses (after mod11 changes), provide huge HoTs and various party utilities (like move speed and defense via shep's devo insignia bonus that benefits from my high power). I find that this strikes the right balance of group utility as well as the ability to shepherd virtually any lower-geared group through any of the T1/T2 content. I also perfectly synergize with a Righteous DO buffer, and if we ever do 2DC runs everything melts like cheese. So there are plenty of viable builds in end-game.

Remember you can get a respec from the 3rd eye campaign, during winter festival, and you can respec boons and feats for AD (assuming you don't need to change DO vs AC). You don't need to stay the same build during your whole progression as a DC

mebengalsfan

zenith#5318 said:

I'm leveling a DC but I'm worried if I will be viable if I pick Righteous talents and act as DPS because people accept DC mostly for healing and supporting. I really like this class but I don't feel like I want to be everyone's healbot.

The Righteous path has some good debuff and buffs in there that it is worth taking that path over the other two paths. The other two paths are for healing only. One is for HoT and the other is for burst healing. Both end up changing how your heals work to ensure that you give a burst or a HoT. To me Righteous is the only path any DC should play in the current game state, regardless if you are a DO or AC.

mebengalsfan

dupeks said:

zenith#5318 said:

I'm leveling a DC but I'm worried if I will be viable if I pick Righteous talents and act as DPS because people accept DC mostly for healing and supporting. I really like this class but I don't feel like I want to be everyone's healbot.

I main a DC. Super versatile class, although soloing is a headache unless you are righteous (alleviated a little bit with the DC mod11 changes).

For leveling, I would go full righteous for full dps (with mod11 changes DO Righteous for lower geared DC, AC Righteous if you have solid gear + bondings).

Once you hit 70, if you are in a guild / alliance with solid groups, you can stay righteous with some tweaks. You'll still be able to heal a bit with divine glow, and you'll provide solid mitigation and enemy damage debuffs which contribute to the party significantly. And damage buffs, which are always desirable.

If you intend to pug / lfg a lot, switching over to a more heal-focused build is probably better until you get your ilvl up. Virtuous and Faithful are both viable, with 15 points in righteous for weps of light. You're right people will expect you to heal, and until you get power/crit up on a righteous build, you won't be healing enough to meet expectations.

Once you get above say... 3.5k ilvl (randomly pulled out of my hat) many folks switch back to righteous, because you're able to provide enough off-heals for most parties of a similar level.

That said, my main is a 4k+ AC Virtuous with 15 points in righteous for power sharing. So I focus on passive heals, and stacking power + recovery for frequent dailies and power stacking. I can reliably drop both HG + AA on bosses (after mod11 changes), provide huge HoTs and various party utilities (like move speed and defense via shep's devo insignia bonus that benefits from my high power). I find that this strikes the right balance of group utility as well as the ability to shepherd virtually any lower-geared group through any of the T1/T2 content. I also perfectly synergize with a Righteous DO buffer, and if we ever do 2DC runs everything melts like cheese. So there are plenty of viable builds in end-game.

Remember you can get a respec from the 3rd eye campaign, during winter festival, and you can respec boons and feats for AD (assuming you don't need to change DO vs AC). You don't need to stay the same build during your whole progression as a DC

Faithful and Virtu. paths are really not needed. Righteous can heal just fine by swapping out encounters, dailies, or personals for the extra healing.

The thing will be the update landing soon to PS4. When we get the DC update if your power is below 30K rom what I have seen you want to be a DO path but if your power is around 30K than you would want to be a AC.

I am going to wait and see how all of this plays out when it lands on PS4 and adjust my main as needed.

dupeks

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

dupeks said:

zenith#5318 said:

I'm leveling a DC but I'm worried if I will be viable if I pick Righteous talents and act as DPS because people accept DC mostly for healing and supporting. I really like this class but I don't feel like I want to be everyone's healbot.

I main a DC. Super versatile class, although soloing is a headache unless you are righteous (alleviated a little bit with the DC mod11 changes).

For leveling, I would go full righteous for full dps (with mod11 changes DO Righteous for lower geared DC, AC Righteous if you have solid gear + bondings).

Once you hit 70, if you are in a guild / alliance with solid groups, you can stay righteous with some tweaks. You'll still be able to heal a bit with divine glow, and you'll provide solid mitigation and enemy damage debuffs which contribute to the party significantly. And damage buffs, which are always desirable.

If you intend to pug / lfg a lot, switching over to a more heal-focused build is probably better until you get your ilvl up. Virtuous and Faithful are both viable, with 15 points in righteous for weps of light. You're right people will expect you to heal, and until you get power/crit up on a righteous build, you won't be healing enough to meet expectations.

Once you get above say... 3.5k ilvl (randomly pulled out of my hat) many folks switch back to righteous, because you're able to provide enough off-heals for most parties of a similar level.

That said, my main is a 4k+ AC Virtuous with 15 points in righteous for power sharing. So I focus on passive heals, and stacking power + recovery for frequent dailies and power stacking. I can reliably drop both HG + AA on bosses (after mod11 changes), provide huge HoTs and various party utilities (like move speed and defense via shep's devo insignia bonus that benefits from my high power). I find that this strikes the right balance of group utility as well as the ability to shepherd virtually any lower-geared group through any of the T1/T2 content. I also perfectly synergize with a Righteous DO buffer, and if we ever do 2DC runs everything melts like cheese. So there are plenty of viable builds in end-game.

Remember you can get a respec from the 3rd eye campaign, during winter festival, and you can respec boons and feats for AD (assuming you don't need to change DO vs AC). You don't need to stay the same build during your whole progression as a DC

Faithful and Virtu. paths are really not needed. Righteous can heal just fine by swapping out encounters, dailies, or personals for the extra healing.

The thing will be the update landing soon to PS4. When we get the DC update if your power is below 30K rom what I have seen you want to be a DO path but if your power is around 30K than you would want to be a AC.

I am going to wait and see how all of this plays out when it lands on PS4 and adjust my main as needed.

Passive heals can help a lot for certain boss fights / lag, and scale better for large group content where you can't keep track of everyone, which is why I go virt. Sure Righteous can manage heals, especially if they are high ilvl, but it's silly to suggest that their heals are as good as virt. You can argue whether dedicated heals are needed or not (many people claim they are not in end-game content), but I run with a lot of mixed groups that definitely benefit from the passive safety net I put out.

Most higher geared groups hit debuff cap with a variety of other classes, so I bring a frost + sellsword (don't respect cap) to help on that account. Beyond that my whole build is based on providing power sharing / passive mitigation / defensive utilities as well as dailyspam.

I've tried full righteous and it just wasn't performing as I'd like for lower geared groups. But hey, I don't claim to be the optimal build or anything like that, just a build that can easily trivialize anything T2 and seriously help with FBI/SVA runs. I also synergize with a RiDO perfectly, whereas if I was full righteous a lot of our benefits would overlap and not stack.

To each their own, and you're not going to convince me that Righteous is better for how I want to play. I really like my build, but I also don't try to advertise it as optimal or anything. Just viable, because it is.

Edit: regarding the 30k bar for AC vs DO. Be careful, because the math used to arrive at that number was calculated with the assumption that is your "base power" for sharing. There are numerous power sources (some boons, twisted set, UD rings) that do not contribute to "base power" (rule of thumb is anything with a buff icon by your portrait doesn't count). If you are interested in optimizing for power sharing, check out this reference:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1227832/reference-power-sharing