PVP is Disgusting and NEEDS CHANGE! Ridiculous. PC

lif3mare

Neverwinter pvp is ridiculous. If you don't have deep pockets, or fancy these "pvp" guilds on the game that are full of arrogant and stuck up players then you have no chance to even win a pvp match. Unless you grind out your "max ad refinement" on multiple characters each day and make your own guild and spend your life rushing the stronghold so you can get some boons and then grind ad out for the rest of your life to buy these overpriced enchantments or refining them yourself you have no damn chance what so ever. You get into these matches with these players with premade groups in their so called "pvp" guilds, and the group you got into the match with has one player with 3k gear score or item level whatever you people are calling it these days and the rest of your group are 2k or below. You're stuck in these absurd matches that you cannot win, yet alone gain any glory what so ever depending on whether or not the other group will allow you to "trade a point" with them in order to get your minimum amount of points needed to come out with anything. I don't have thousands of dollars to make a stronghold and get pvp boons and drain people or thousands of dollars to get all the rank 12's I'd need to be able to compete with these people and its definitely unfair. And instead of anything being done or changed to make it fair in any way possible to cater to everyone and not just to these specific individuals on welfare or spending their parents money or have no family to come home to and no bills you just deflect it and the community deflects it with bs like you're a crybaby or you suck at playing blah blah blah all of your bs. Neverwinter pvp is disgusting. On top of the unfair set up of the pvp system, you get stuck in these unbalanced matches and you're even punished for not wanting to waste your time in the match by leaving and being barred from queues for 30 minutes?? HOW RIDICULOUS IS THIS? I've played this game since shortly after it was released. I remember playing other games and getting messages to be a founder by spending $200 when this game was starting up. This games content, especially pvp was very fun in the beginning. Now it's not suitable for anybody but money bags. And it needs change. And I'm going to keep complaining about it until you take my account away from me or block me from posting. Why can't we work on this? Nobody wants to do campaigns over and over and run the same dungeons over and over. There's no break, to be able to escape the tedious dungeons and campaigns. No quests to run through with cool story lines. And definitely no pvp just to have a little change. It's not worth living your life on neverwinter. You can't do this without money, and I certainly won't be spending any money here any time soon.

disposablehero

I'm just curious, but how did you try getting into pvp? Did you just slap on your best gear and jump in, or did you get a set of green and blue AH gear first? If you just jumped in, that is likely the reason why you get beat up so badly. Giving yourself some tenacity before going in aside, you've got to be prepared to lose a great deal until you find a good team, and even then, you're still not guaranteed a win.

You mentioned running campaigns over and over, so I'm guessing you have those unlocked, right? That's already a huge advantage over anyone who just started a month ago, so all you're lacking is grinder time. Grab some AH gear, dive in and at least try. I managed to unlock 5/10 Dom campaign challenges in a week with absolutely no support and nobody holding my hand, it's not that hard.

drewhayes

disposablehero#5903 said:

I'm just curious, but how did you try getting into pvp? Did you just slap on your best gear and jump in, or did you get a set of green and blue AH gear first? If you just jumped in, that is likely the reason why you get beat up so badly. Giving yourself some tenacity before going in aside, you've got to be prepared to lose a great deal until you find a good team, and even then, you're still not guaranteed a win.

You mentioned running campaigns over and over, so I'm guessing you have those unlocked, right? That's already a huge advantage over anyone who just started a month ago, so all you're lacking is grinder time. Grab some AH gear, dive in and at least try. I managed to unlock 5/10 Dom campaign challenges in a week with absolutely no support and nobody holding my hand, it's not that hard.

when the difference in IL is more than 1k, blue battlescarrred gear is useless. Green battlescarred is worse than useless. No one is looking for a guaranteed win. Well, no one that isn't BiS, in a PvP guild is looking for a guaranteed win. Most players are looking for a chance at a fair fight. If you check out the forums, you will see that even some players that are at BiS, or close to it, but don't like the environments in the big guilds have to run thru 10 - 20 matches to find a fair fight.

as to the grind through the boon progression... if you read the original post, time was an issue for this, and many other players. Players that do not have many, many hours to play every day could spend months, if not years grinding their way thru the boons. Are these players supposed to sit out of PvP matches until they have completed all the other content? Why then does PvP unlock at (I think) level 12?

zephon91

drewhayes said:

Why then does PvP unlock at (I think) level 12?

It unlocks at Level 10.
So the PvP-ranges are:
10-19 (Only Domination)
20-29 (Only Domination)
30-39 (Only Domination)
40-49 (Only Domination)
50-59 (Only Domination)
60-69 (Domination, Gauntl and Stronghold)
70 (Domination, Gauntl and Stronghold)

I agree with your meaning.
It is very hard to get a round to win, cause if the enemy team isn't premade (in lvl 60 up to 70 PvP) you can even face a "one army" player, that guaranteed your lose.
I played PvP in every game before, so I do here. And I play a lot of PvP.

Most of the players get in a round, nearly getting there 2k IL and getting oneshoted.
Here is, where my idea came through.
Equalized PvP

It could be a very good option for the game and the PvP-System, I think.

Greetings
Zeph

disposablehero

drewhayes said:

when the difference in IL is more than 1k, blue battlescarrred gear is useless. Green battlescarred is worse than useless. No one is looking for a guaranteed win. Well, no one that isn't BiS, in a PvP guild is looking for a guaranteed win. Most players are looking for a chance at a fair fight. If you check out the forums, you will see that even some players that are at BiS, or close to it, but don't like the environments in the big guilds have to run thru 10 - 20 matches to find a fair fight.

as to the grind through the boon progression... if you read the original post, time was an issue for this, and many other players. Players that do not have many, many hours to play every day could spend months, if not years grinding their way thru the boons. Are these players supposed to sit out of PvP matches until they have completed all the other content? Why then does PvP unlock at (I think) level 12?

Battlescarred gear is still a valid starting point, which is what I was saying. I also read the post thanks, but I have to disagree with both it and you. Whining about progression if you've been playing the game for so long is ridiculous, but the fact that you question why pvp unlocks at a low level explains everything. You realize you're both part of the problem, right? The system rewards effort, and whether it takes you a month or two years to reap the benefits, you're playing the game either way.

So our problem boils down to certain individuals not wanting to put in the grinder time that others already have. That's too bad, man.

yashiensingh

I agree having taken months to grind out simple campaigns i went to PvP as it was something new to try and more challenges but damn. playing against a premade team with 1 or more players maxed out was just impossible, and after alot of matches (most loses) and very little glory to even think of buying better gear i left it. its just too unfair and unbalanced to even try.

zephon91

yashiensingh said:

I agree having taken months to grind out simple campaigns i went to PvP as it was something new to try and more challenges but damn. playing against a premade team with 1 or more players maxed out was just impossible, and after alot of matches (most loses) and very little glory to even think of buying better gear i left it. its just too unfair and unbalanced to even try.

Let me guess... You got the normal (battlescared or the low Guild PvP Armor) to fight against them?
To be honest, IL 3600+ is the magic border. Anything above it will change a bit, but not much.
Sure rank 12 enchants are better than rank 10's, but it is just a small step.
My main got barely 3500 IL and is a GF. And I got no problem with fighting against IL 4.2 players. The one thing that kills me are gangbangs. The most lvl 70 players didn't have the gear and also didn't know how to teamplay.
You can also see this in PvE when someone is just doing the Leeroy Jenkins in a Dungeon.

Another very intresting example are low geared players in low PvP. I know alot of players and sometimes I am very suprised of a level 28 player with 205 IL (My IL is 500+ in this gearrange, cause i have the items and the AD for it) and those guys are shredding others with a higher gearscore. Also Players like me.

Now is the question: How do those guys do it?
Simple trick! Know your character, know the necessary stats, know your skills and know how to teamplay.
It is not that far away, that I won a round with randoms against a full 4.3k IL Raid of EoA.
Not kind of a problem, cause the teamplay made the win. 3 on 1 and a gs 4.3 is down.
But ONLY! if the players exactly know, how to stun, hold and shred an enemy.
If not, the game is over.

plavia

it's just getting worse and worse since mod 9 when guilds got strong.

here is my stat as DC player with 3.2-3.5 GS full PVP armor, rings, enchants, mount, artifacts, and artifact set.
all boons open, encluding PVP. all used powers maxed to rank 4.
solo pvp since i remember, started to play at Nov 2013 (never prebuild)

95% of the matches are not competitive. now only 1/20 matches the result is not determined from start.
50% of the times i can't even reach 600 points to get AD or glory. (that result should come up in the stat analysis)
5% matches there is bot. (at least make Q system with very low G and let noobs train on them)

I guess a fresh player rely only on luck to win today. the result does not depend on his play/build or what ever.
if he got lucky to be with saber, poak, minimi etc. he might have a chance.
else he is a marshmallow by the fire.

threat

Warborn.

That's how you start.

It's frustrating at first, no doubt. But just getting enough tenacity to soft cap the PvP stats makes a big difference. I think it's just over 2k or so. Then you can at least hang in a match.

Also, you should know how to PvP, that helps a lot. Even experience from other games, particularly games with capture arena modes like GW2, helps with concepts like map rotation and such.

Start with some tenacity, work from there. Take off some of your fancy PvE gear and it will help overall. You don't need rank 12 enchantments.

At least to start. That was my experience.

elrondknight

threat#0783 said:

Warborn.



That's how you start.



It's frustrating at first, no doubt. But just getting enough tenacity to soft cap the PvP stats makes a big difference. I think it's just over 2k or so. Then you can at least hang in a match.



Also, you should know how to PvP, that helps a lot. Even experience from other games, particularly games with capture arena modes like GW2, helps with concepts like map rotation and such.



Start with some tenacity, work from there. Take off some of your fancy PvE gear and it will help overall. You don't need rank 12 enchantments.



At least to start. That was my experience.

If i'm gonna save up a half-million AD, i'm probably not gonna waste it on the warborn set. I'll go for the VIP instead.

threat

Warborn comes from trade bars. So ya, get your VIP, then get 2 Warborn pieces.

yourenext2die

You have to grind man, I'll admit. I've spent a little cash but 85% of my build is from grinding. Hardly pay to play. I've been playing since the first week NW dropped for XB1. If you want to have more fun in PVP then you're going to have to suffer through losses while you gain gear that gives you Tenacity and set bonuses. Then get into a guild that PVP's. Get your IL up then get into a higher tier guild. Most of the better guilds around no longer have an entrance fee.

Domination solo was a great start, bring it back permanently. I've played in the top guilds and not everyone is arrogant and stuck up. They may seem it if you're an outsider but if you're in the guild they're more than happy to help you out. In general you're going to want at least a 3-3.2 IL and you can get into the majority of decently geared guilds granted FBI and etc are unlocked or close to it. Many of them will have a couple PVP groups that run outside of PVE content. Other guilds like the ones I run with will want you to be at least a 3.5 for DPS and a 3.2 as a tank. If you're a 4K tank expect the red carpet rolled out for you.

nameexpired

My inventory has no place for 15 tenacity items.
The idea to have to wear special PvP gear (but still admit entrance without tenacity) or instantly die must come from a great mind!
It certainly increases the number of casual PvP players.

kalina311

nameexpired said:

My inventory has no place for 15 tenacity items.
The idea to have to wear special PvP gear (but still admit entrance without tenacity) or instantly die must come from a great mind!
It certainly increases the number of casual PvP players.

Umm where exactly do you get this list of 15 tenacity items exaggerate much do you ?
hmmm boots arms armor helm and 2 optional rings my math says 6 items at most
you seem misinformed friend ...

Question how many items are needed for pve then dozens ? it would seem to me the greater percentage of your inventory space is filled with pve items and tons of semi needless ones as well

what about the idea to wear special black ice gear or vanderblood gear or die instantly to do pve content same thing no ?>>
does your inventory have space for those items >>>

threat

Yup. Inventory isn't the issue. You either decide to dedicate a few spots to PvP gear, or you don't. But you can't complain if you enter PvP without at least SOME gear and get 1-shot.

It truely is frustrating to start. I can appreciate that. I had to grind enough AD for VIP, then wait for trade bars to get the Warborn. That sucked. Also, I had to spend way more time doing PvE campaign content that I wouldn't normally do in a game. But it helps a lot getting some of those boons.

I've only been playing around 6 months and I've never put a dollar into this game. TBH, I never will. PvP is so broken, imo, compared to other games, and I see no input from the devs to suggest it will change. I have 3 characters that I solo PvP with and I do okay. Enough that it's isn't frustrating. I obviously lose a 1v1 vs a BiS, and a premade will roll my pug team, but I can win some matches every day.

But to be completely fair, "relatively competitive" PvP is not unattainable.

It just requires some effort.

wintersmoke

kalina311 said:

nameexpired said:

My inventory has no place for 15 tenacity items.
The idea to have to wear special PvP gear (but still admit entrance without tenacity) or instantly die must come from a great mind!
It certainly increases the number of casual PvP players.

Umm where exactly do you get this list of 15 tenacity items exaggerate much do you ?
hmmm boots arms armor helm and 2 optional rings my math says 6 items at most
you seem misinformed friend ...

Question how many items are needed for pve then dozens ? it would seem to me the greater percentage of your inventory space is filled with pve items and tons of semi needless ones as well

what about the idea to wear special black ice gear or vanderblood gear or die instantly to do pve content same thing no ?>>
does your inventory have space for those items >>>

1) Boots
2) Off-hand
3) Main-hand
4) Chest
5) Helm
6) Neck
7) Ring#1
8) Ring #2
9) Waist

plus you also need @ least one open spot to change out enchants... and some PvP enchants are not going to be used in Pve & vice versa. 15 is actually a low estimate of what it would require to run 2 full sets of gear. Oh, my aching bags. Can I borrow a runic bag until Thursday?

yourenext2die

wintersmoke said:

kalina311 said:

nameexpired said:

My inventory has no place for 15 tenacity items.
The idea to have to wear special PvP gear (but still admit entrance without tenacity) or instantly die must come from a great mind!
It certainly increases the number of casual PvP players.

Umm where exactly do you get this list of 15 tenacity items exaggerate much do you ?
hmmm boots arms armor helm and 2 optional rings my math says 6 items at most
you seem misinformed friend ...

Question how many items are needed for pve then dozens ? it would seem to me the greater percentage of your inventory space is filled with pve items and tons of semi needless ones as well

what about the idea to wear special black ice gear or vanderblood gear or die instantly to do pve content same thing no ?>>
does your inventory have space for those items >>>

1) Boots
2) Off-hand
3) Main-hand
4) Chest
5) Helm
6) Neck
7) Ring#1
8) Ring #2
9) Waist

plus you also need @ least one open spot to change out enchants... and some PvP enchants are not going to be used in Pve & vice versa. 15 is actually a low estimate of what it would require to run 2 full sets of gear. Oh, my aching bags. Can I borrow a runic bag until Thursday?

Helm
Chest
Arms
Boots
Ring#1

Gives me more than 3,600 Tenacity. You don't need more than that. Ring #2 over 4K total. Anything else is pretty much a waist. Still not sure how he got 15 though.

wintersmoke

yourenext2die said:

wintersmoke said:

kalina311 said:

nameexpired said:

My inventory has no place for 15 tenacity items.
The idea to have to wear special PvP gear (but still admit entrance without tenacity) or instantly die must come from a great mind!
It certainly increases the number of casual PvP players.

Umm where exactly do you get this list of 15 tenacity items exaggerate much do you ?
hmmm boots arms armor helm and 2 optional rings my math says 6 items at most
you seem misinformed friend ...

Question how many items are needed for pve then dozens ? it would seem to me the greater percentage of your inventory space is filled with pve items and tons of semi needless ones as well

what about the idea to wear special black ice gear or vanderblood gear or die instantly to do pve content same thing no ?>>
does your inventory have space for those items >>>

1) Boots
2) Off-hand
3) Main-hand
4) Chest
5) Helm
6) Neck
7) Ring#1
8) Ring #2
9) Waist

plus you also need @ least one open spot to change out enchants... and some PvP enchants are not going to be used in Pve & vice versa. 15 is actually a low estimate of what it would require to run 2 full sets of gear. Oh, my aching bags. Can I borrow a runic bag until Thursday?

Helm
Chest
Arms
Boots
Ring#1

Gives me more than 3,600 Tenacity. You don't need more than that. Ring #2 over 4K total. Anything else is pretty much a waist. Still not sure how he got 15 though.

Probably for enchants... fey blessing, dragon horde, & quartermaster. Plus silvers or cruels.

kiraskytower

wintersmoke said:

Probably for enchants... fey blessing, dragon horde, & quartermaster. Plus silvers or cruels.

First of all, there are not nearly as many critical enchants in all of that as you think. The Chest will have a defensive enchant and an armor enchant (You will want a different armor enchant for PvP anyhow ... the PvE standard Soulforged just means your opponents get a lot of double kills). The Helm, Arms and Boots have Utility enchant slots. These are "nice to have" but not really important for PvP (You are not going to make enough kills for Fey Blessings/Dragon Hoards/QM enchants to gain you much). Assuming you have a PvP type rosegold ring, that's 2 more enchants, 1 offensive and 1 defensive. So in the end, you have 4 enchants devoted to your PvP gear:

1 Armor Enchant
2 Defensive Enchants
1 Offensive Enchant

Assuming you don't swap them back and forth between sets of armor everytime you PvP ...

nameexpired

kalina311 said:

Umm where exactly do you get this list of 15 tenacity items exaggerate much do you ?
hmmm boots arms armor helm and 2 optional rings my math says 6 items at most
you seem misinformed friend ...

I want to troll you and say I want to play with 3 toons @ 5 tenacity items
No, It was a gross exageration. You caught me red handed. Guilty as charged.

But that does not change my opinion that it is a terrible design that you have to wear special PvP gear.
Before Mod3 (before tenacity) you could enter with any gear.
A player doning PvP gear certainly had an edge, but that was it. It was possible to enjoy yourself in PvP dom without having to buy and carry around your gear, have extra enchantments for that gear etc.

Cryptic could easily mod all gear to have some base tenacity, this might get some players back to PvP.
Alas, they show their commitment to PvP with all the new domination maps added since beta.

I also have to admit that only entered domination once since April 2016.

forumnamesuxs

15 is actually not that much of an exaggeration, especially for those of us who use situation specific equipment. Rings, artifacts (OMG, so many artifacts), extra armor with different armor enchant (negation/elven), weapons..

kalina311

.

kalina311

forumnamesuxs said:

15 is actually not that much of an exaggeration, especially for those of us who use situation specific equipment. Rings, artifacts (OMG, so many artifacts), extra armor with different armor enchant (negation/elven), weapons..

He said 15 pieces of tenacity gear

and the only thing needed in pvp utility slots are enchantments for extra glory or enchants for extra speed
that dont get swapped around say rank 7s or something

also they needed tenacity gear as rewards to encourage for pvp as well and to tie it in to elemental empowerment from black ice .. in the early days good design for high population rewards playing
now you can just get what you need with a few trade bars also good design for lower population easier to obtain

no design flaw there you do million of damage to monsters in pve with powers .. you cant do millions of damage to players in pvp .. .. even the dev in the latest stream said that ... thus tenacity was born


yes they could make power different for pve vs pvp if they wanted to but it was easier to code in tenacity as a band aid

elrondknight

.

forumnamesuxs

When someone who doesn't PvP say "tenacity gear", I assume they mean anything pvp related, meaning anything they probably would only use for PvP.

Back on topic:
I am quite aware of why they added tenacity, and what it does.
However, its continued existence is a solid example of Cryptic's fondness of taking shortsighted shortcuts, rather than creating something that actually works for everyone.
The tenacity mechanic could easily have been a "flagged for PvP" thing, instead of a part of gear stats. The only thing it does and ever did, was segregate casuals from dedicated PvP'ers, and from what I can tell, is one of the many aspects of this game, that makes it difficult for new players to experience the fun part of PvP.

I haven't gotten to watch the stream recording yet, since I'm on work travels, but I am looking forward to it.

Bottom line: I agree with OP, but I also sympathize a bit with the current dev team, because the task to dig this game out of the rotting hole it is in now, is probably far from an easy task.

nameexpired

kalina311 said:

no design flaw there you do million of damage to monsters in pve with powers .. you cant do millions of damage to players in pvp .. .. even the dev in the latest stream said that ... thus tenacity was born

I guess you would not see a design flaw if you wrote a master thesis that proves there is a massive design flaw.

forumnamesuxs

@kreatyve
I got ambushed by the spam filter when editing a post, probably.
Are you able to bring it back?

panteleelee

NWO is actual pve game...the base of the game is pve.
Dont cry for pvp...
No1 come in NWO to play pvp, if you want pvp go play CS:GO - LoL- Dota 2 and so many other games...
In whole game at least 50 ppl play pvp the others is bot or pugs
No hard feelings just saying!

yourenext2die

kiraskytower said:

wintersmoke said:

Probably for enchants... fey blessing, dragon horde, & quartermaster. Plus silvers or cruels.

The Helm, Arms and Boots have Utility enchant slots. These are "nice to have" but not really important for PvP ...

Movement isn't important for PVP? lol K.

kreatyve

forumnamesuxs said:

@kreatyve

I got ambushed by the spam filter when editing a post, probably.

Are you able to bring it back?

It's been retrieved from the bowels of the spam queue. Please don't ask me to do that too often, it's disgusting in there. *shivers*

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