Wow, Mod 11 looks GREAT for PvP

indylol

With all the class balancing, new dom maps, and a clear focus on getting more players excited about PvP with the new game types and rewards!

Or maybe its just a handful of new weapons and a skirmish... Atleast we can be optimistic for Mod12

crowdsourced

I bet players can grind daily quests for boons. Players love those tedious daily tasks. The recycled assets also make the environments more familiar so the players feel at home and aren't too distraught with all the changes.

kiraskytower

From a PvP point of view Mod 11 is really ....

1) New weapons for those who didn't grind out the Mod 10 ones (Could be good or bad, so far none looks to have an overpowering bonus for PvP).

2) New boons PvPers have to grind out to remain "BiS". Most look fairly innocuous, but I believe one stuns the enemy team on a kill and anther that heals a player 8000 HP on a successful deflection. I can see both of these being unpopular with the PvP community ...

3) New artifact (Tome of Ascendence) which provides yet another source of invisibility to non-rogues.

4) Coming in a few weeks/months (Mod 11.5?) Loadouts and DC changes. The loadouts are something the PvP community has been requesting for years. Increasing DC damage while nerfing AA probably isn't a bad thing for PvP either ....

If you are looking for a module to actually provide more PvP Content ... I wouldn't get my hopes up. The last 3 PvP content expansions (SH Siege, IWD PvP and Gautilgrym PvP) were generally unpopular in the PvP community and are all more or less abandoned now. The PvP community has continually shrunk due to balance issues and a somewhat toxic player base. A quick and dirty search on any given night shows that there maybe one or two domination instances active, while there are hundreds of dungeon instances active. There really is almost no incentive for the devs to put a lot of effort into anything for PvP given that the playerbase has proven impossible to please with their PvP expansions and has now shrunk down into the low single digits as a percentage of the playerbase.

sh00termcl0vin

@kiraskytower

The player base isn't impossible to please, the development team just completely disregards what their customers have asked for and they release boring broken pvp content. Instead of releasing laggy large scale maps, a simple 5 man capture the flag or arena style death matches with decent rewards would do wonders for the game.

Also the developers don't want to put any time into doing pvp balance passes because they don't want any ripple effects in pve. If you notice all the broken powers that were fixed were all powers that were trivializing pve content, not things that are being exploited in pvp. Piercing damage, permanent cc, runaway burst damage, and one shots haven't been addressed at all. For example no rogue powers have been touched since mod 6 launch and they are the biggest offenders in pvp in regards to cc (perma CB rogues) and one shots (SE rogue). Since this has zero impact on pve though, none of the developers seem to mind.

Finally IWD and SH siege were both an unmitigated disaster because of companion active bonuses (owlbear/shadow demon etc.) that are broken/impossible to balance, horrendous lag (for siege), and they were just plain boring. GG is also a failure because the map is too big and there really isn't a whole lot going on. This turns GG matches into snorefests of running around the map with very few player interactions. No one wants to queue for that.

Pvp is essentially dead because of neglect or ignorance on the part of the development staff (I don't want to say incompetence because I don't work there or know the issues they are dealing with) not "toxic" or impossible to please players. Please place the blame where it belongs.

kiraskytower

sh00termcl0vin said:

@kiraskytower



The player base isn't impossible to please, the development team just completely disregards what their customers have asked for and they release boring broken pvp content. Instead of releasing laggy large scale maps, a simple 5 man capture the flag or arena style death matches with decent rewards would do wonders for the game.



.....


Pvp is essentially dead because of neglect or ignorance on the part of the development staff (I don't want to say incompetence because I don't work there or know the issues they are dealing with) not "toxic" or impossible to please players. Please place the blame where it belongs.

I won't argue that much of the PvP content the developers have released has issues. Right now I am not sure that anything the developers could release would help PvP in it's current form. The current playerbase in PvP is extremely well geared and for the most part a member of a high end PvP guild running in a premade. I've seen players in my alliance and guild try to get into PvP ... usually a few matches where they are repeatedly abused by 4k+ monsters while being told repeatedly they have no business in PvP is enough for them to decide to never go back. The end result? Fewer and fewer PvP players ... (If you think otherwise, take a new level 70 into PvP solo - you will be repeatedly one shotted, verbally abused, then spawncamped until you give up).

There is some good news here - the Devs have been playing around with solo and duo queues for PvP. But so far these have only been as events, not a permanent addition to the game. Adding in queues based on item levels is another widely suggested fix by the players which would help here too. But the fact is that as long as the issues of premades and seriously unbalanced item levels drive new players off, it doesn't matter if you have more domination maps or a capture the flag map or a deathmatch map ... PvP will continue to decline with fewer and fewer players taking part and getting less and less developer attention.

sh00termcl0vin

@kiraskytower

Gear inequality has and always will exist. This is a free to play MMO where anyone can pay their way to maxed out gear. This is what makes the company money and keeps the lights on so others that don't or can't spend money can continue to play. It is possible however if you put enough time in to get to the point where you can compete effectively.

This free route however is a huge time investment which many new players don't understand and so they complain about gear inequality. They complain about 4k toons when they continuously queue wearing subpar gear and enchants without making any efforts to advance. Going into pvp as a fresh 70 has always been a bad idea since this game has been released.

The real problems are broken class mechanics, a queue system that prefers matching of pugs against premade, and the total lack of game modes that players actually want to play (which is why SH siege and GG are dead queues)

disposablehero

sh00termcl0vin said:

@kiraskytower






Also the developers don't want to put any time into doing pvp balance passes because they don't want any ripple effects in pve. If you notice all the broken powers that were fixed were all powers that were trivializing pve content, not things that are being exploited in pvp. Piercing damage, permanent cc, runaway burst damage, and one shots haven't been addressed at all. For example no rogue powers have been touched since mod 6 launch and they are the biggest offenders in pvp in regards to cc (perma CB rogues) and one shots (SE rogue). Since this has zero impact on pve though, none of the developers seem to mind.

Generally speaking, Rogues aren't too bad to deal with if you can land a stun and bust their grape wide open, but that also applies to everyone else. I think their sneak sneak, stab stab strategy works pretty well. If you think about it without their burst damage they would be far less useful. Sure it's annoying when I get stunned and then shanked, but shame on me for not protecting my kidneys. I won't disagree with you about balancing, as my perspective has been entirely shaped by playing matches from the teens up to just before lvl 70 so I haven't gotten the pleasure of experiencing the worst of it, but I'm almost there and I can't wait.

Too much WoW has made me a HAMSTER.

goodyearbadday

sh00termcl0vin said:

@kiraskytower



Gear inequality has and always will exist. This is a free to play MMO where anyone can pay their way to maxed out gear. This is what makes the company money and keeps the lights on so others that don't or can't spend money can continue to play. It is possible however if you put enough time in to get to the point where you can compete effectively.



This free route however is a huge time investment which many new players don't understand and so they complain about gear inequality. They complain about 4k toons when they continuously queue wearing subpar gear and enchants without making any efforts to advance. Going into pvp as a fresh 70 has always been a bad idea since this game has been released.



The real problems are broken class mechanics, a queue system that prefers matching of pugs against premade, and the total lack of game modes that players actually want to play (which is why SH siege and GG are dead queues)

How many years do you think would be an acceptable amount of grind before new players are allowed to enter PvP?

sh00termcl0vin

It doesn't take years. Talk to some people and do a little bit of research in here or on the NW reddit. Pvp gear is available for tradebars and on the ah (warborn). There really is no excuse for going into pvp with pve gear. Also with the new key changes artifacts are relatively easy to come by. Using things like the "globe of the third eye" when there are free artifacts like class ones that are better is also pretty nonsensical. But you see guys continually queue using this stuff.

Wander's fortune is a good way to get RP for artifact equipment. Refining for enchants can be done during double refinement. Also running skirmishes and low level dungeons are a good way to get daily AD. Like I said it takes time (not years) but if you do the grind you will be rewarded. The matchmaking system however is a different story.

dmcewen

The match making system is so bad that groups of known 4K pvp players are syncing queues in solo domination.

The only way to make pvp better is to take away all the fluff, but it won't happen we all know.

disposablehero

sh00termcl0vin said:

It doesn't take years. Talk to some people and do a little bit of research in here or on the NW reddit. Pvp gear is available for tradebars and on the ah (warborn). There really is no excuse for going into pvp with pve gear. Also with the new key changes artifacts are relatively easy to come by. Using things like the "globe of the third eye" when there are free artifacts like class ones that are better is also pretty nonsensical. But you see guys continually queue using this stuff.



Wander's fortune is a good way to get RP for artifact equipment. Refining for enchants can be done during double refinement. Also running skirmishes and low level dungeons are a good way to get daily AD. Like I said it takes time (not years) but if you do the grind you will be rewarded. The matchmaking system however is a different story.

You are quite right, it doesn't take years to get to the point where you can be competitive in pvp. I managed to snag a full set of green/blue stuff from the AH and have been replacing it with the higher tier pieces available for Glory. I'm about halfway through the Dom pvp challenges, and while I only have one pvp boon (plus a few others) unlocked the playing field is quite level aside from the few dudes who already have everything unlocked and like to demonstrate how awesome they are by crushing people who can't possibly beat them. Or a whole team of them, which is beyond silly. At that point I just dance in the spawn area and refuse to help them bump their kdr.

overdriver13

null

If the PvP population is such a tiny fragment of player population overall, I don't think their purchases are "keeping the lights on". To save PvP and make it more profitable to them overall, they really do need to make it so small purchases will get you competitive gear. No one wants to spend a ton of money or play pve grind like a full time job. A ton of people making small transactions pays better than a few people making huge transactions. If you know of how to get full BIS in under 40 hours (a work week), please to link the guide here. I'd love to be proven wrong about how long it takes to grind out gear even in the same dimension as BIS.

finalfantasyac7

I remember when i first created my scourge warlock ( 1 year ago ) after playing other classes for ages. Only did pvp from level 10 to 70.
Tried the level 70 pvp and got wrecked in second. Took me 1 year to max my sw, ofcourse i spend some money here and there but spend more time on grinding for everything such as boons, gears, etc. Now since i am maxed, i only pvp and it's really fun playing with a maxed sw hehe.

Sorry for my bad english, im dutch lol.

ayroux

sh00termcl0vin said:

@kiraskytower



Gear inequality has and always will exist. This is a free to play MMO where anyone can pay their way to maxed out gear. This is what makes the company money and keeps the lights on so others that don't or can't spend money can continue to play. It is possible however if you put enough time in to get to the point where you can compete effectively.



This free route however is a huge time investment which many new players don't understand and so they complain about gear inequality. They complain about 4k toons when they continuously queue wearing subpar gear and enchants without making any efforts to advance. Going into pvp as a fresh 70 has always been a bad idea since this game has been released.



The real problems are broken class mechanics, a queue system that prefers matching of pugs against premade, and the total lack of game modes that players actually want to play (which is why SH siege and GG are dead queues)

I think I would have to disagree on these points. Here is why.

"Gear inequality has and always will exist...This is what makes the company money and keeps the lights on" - Is this true? Does it HAVE to be true? What would happen if INSTEAD of having a "pay for power" business model, they DIDNT do that and put more work into rare cosmetics? My case example that I will offer is Path of Exile. They have a staff of 90+ people in a 100% F2P game, and have zero Paytowin. The only transactions are cosmetic. They were genius in the fact that they made most "normal" gear look very bland, then let you buy transmutes for a decent $. I played POE for just 1 season (a few months) and broke down and bought a cool Axe transmute for like $20-30. Point being, "selling power" isnt actually the best business model. If you go back in time to mod 0 days, there wasnt AS MUCH "selling power" in PVP and the game made A LOT more money than it did now.

"The real problems are broken class mechanics, a queue system that prefers matching of pugs against premade, and the total lack of game modes that players actually want to play" - I think the BIGGER issue aka "real problem" is the lack of population this game has. There arent ENOUGH 4k+ players on at a time for any real matchmaking to work. They have already stated when they increase the "restraints" on matchmaking, it takes too long and people get mad.

The REAL problem is actually the gear gap. We have a monster gear gap between the "average" and the BIS player. So combined with low population, that is where we are at today.

So we cn either increase population or decrease gear gap.

This is why I advocate for gear normalization aka stat normalization in PVP. Creating "set stats" for each class as a default everyone gets regardless of gear outside PVP. Every GWF zones in with the SAME stats all pre-determined.

What CAN change your stats, is your item level. For every 100 points above 3,000, you get an extra 1% of all those stats.

This would reduce gear gap and remove the problems of matchmaking.


NOW the issue is, you need to focus on cool cosmetics for people to buy. Mounts are good ones, but so are "rare/unique" weapons for each class. Give them a SUPER low drop rate from dungeons, as well as a purchase option via zen. People will pay for them

gomok72

The real problem that has persisted through this game from the beginning is the developers give a test server to test these bugs and issues, people go there to find these bugs and issues and not report it out. The bugs and issues found and reported to the developers go unnoticed and ignored for months/years on end until people either re-roll or quit the game in hopes of the "BUGS and ISSUES" being fixed upon their return.

As far as PvP SH, Dom and GG goes, none of them started out good because things for PvP did not have enough people testing and giving feed back on it, all the guilds that exploited SH zergged and dominated it first day to get PvP gear cutting it off from the rest of the 2/3kers, certain companions pushed the gap even farther for them.

Population will never increase for this game because none of the "GOOD" ideas are being implemented, they lost all their veteran coders/programmers and are scared to make any real major changes because it would be hard for them (Classes are still broken, and havent been fixed).

This game by nature is one that is majorly a PvE game and if people are playing it for the PvP fix, then they are most certainly dry at heart.