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thefabricant
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
Credits:
@chemodan007 for sharing his own testing of hr, which I used to check mine. He had also already found values for clear the ground which I was missing and pointed out that hawk shot has a maximum (which I didn't notice.) He also pointed out the seeker's vengeance offhand. He also pointed out that Plant growth has a 0th rank.
@gylnar killed me a few times to test gloaming cut.
@michela123 corrected my test for Thorn Strike and pointed out inconsistencies with Clear the Ground and Cold Steel Hurricane. Also pointed out I was missing the third hit of Rapid Strike. Also pointed out the second hit of Relentless Avenger was missing. Also pointed out the values for Flame Strike and Divine Glow were incorrect and that Brood of Hadar's AoE splash damage was missing.
@micky1p00 provided the original formula I used to do this test, as well as suggested methods to get more accurate results.
@rjc9000 pointed out I missed 2 GF at wills plus indomitable strength and was the pedantic person who noticed that not all classes use strength for their damage bonus. Tested Supremacy of Steel.
An unmentioned credit, to the people who helped with Level Based Weapon Damage. You know who you are.
Explanation:
Recently, fixed damage weapons were provided to us on preview. This made it possible to test how damage and healing scales, at a fundamental level, far more accurately and easily than before. This thread explains at a basic level, how all skills function. The complete function for damage is as follows:
(Credits to @micky1p00 for providing this picture, please note, not all classes use strength.)
This thread focuses on this part:
(Level Based Weapon Damage+Weapon Damage)*Ability Coefficient*Skill Type Bonus*Rank Modifier
The Level Based Weapon Damage is determined by 2 things primarily, the first being the level of your character and the second is your class. The exception is HR, where they have a different Level Based Weapon Damage depending on stance and GWF, which has a different number for some skills. The skill Type Bonus is a multiplier that is dependent on the skill type. At wills are multiplied by 1, Encounters are multiplied by 3 and daily powers are multiplied by 5. Here is a list of all coefficients for each class at level 70:
The Rank Modifier is different per skill and is denoted in that document as, "Rank Type Bonus."
It has the general form of ((1-Rank Bonus)+Rank Bonus*Rank)
For example, if a skill gains 10% damage per rank, the formula is: ((1-0.1)+Rank*0.1)
Using this information, it is possible to calculate the tooltips (and actual damage/healing dealt) for abilities before any other bonuses are applied. For example, if we look at a CW with the following stats:
and 1 rank in disintegrate.
The test orb has 1000 fixed damage, so it always does a roll of 1000.
If we take the values from the spreadsheet we get the following:
(144.425+1000)*3*1.09(Because our character has 19 int.) = 3742.26975
The actual damage dealt is:
The final value at the end is the value before the mobs DR is applied.
Bugs Features and Notable Exceptions:
The first thing you need to do is note your attribute bonuses, so you can factor them out. If you are testing a heal, then whatever attribute boosts your healing needs to be factored out and if you are testing a damaging encounter, then whatever boosts your damage needs to be factored out.
Example:
Dexterity is a HR's damage attribute. With 19 Dexterity, there is a 9% damage boost, or a multiplier of 1.09.
You also need to use a weapon with fixed damage, these can be found on preview, in the Wondrous Bazaar. Make sure when testing this your character has no gear on.
In this example, we will find the values using Careful Attack. With Careful Attack at rank 3, there should be a 1.2 multiplier for Careful Attack. To make sure of this, you need to get a hit at each rank to ensure they are increasing by 10% each rank. In this example, we will work with rank 3 careful attack. You need 1 hit with and without your weapon on. To get a value without your weapon on, apply careful attack in melee stance with the fixed damage weapons, switch stance, remove your daggers and get 1 hit with a bow. Since Careful Attack scales off your melee weapon and not your ranged weapon, you now got a value without weapon damage.
Example:
The value 639.6 was with the fixed damage weapon and the value 51 was without it. To get the exact values, right click on either of those entries and press, "select this action in view logs."
Example:
Now, copy these exact values down and head over to here:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/widgets/view.jsp?id=ae438682ce61743f90d4693c497621b7
Input the following:
Equation #1: (X+1000)*Y*1.09*1.2=639.605
Equation #2: X*Y*1.09*1.2=51.0051
You should then get these results:
Since you are simply solving an equation, it is fairly easy to get these values. To check these values, now stick on any weapon of your choice (that doesn't have power to make it easier) and now substitute in the values you have, but with a new weapon damage, to check the range matches.
I have since added skill base CDs to this spreadsheet, so here is a cursory explanation of how recharge speed increase works.
Recharge Speed Increase:
Different sources of recharge speed increase add together. The final CD of your skill is determined by the base CD divided by the sum of all recharge speed increase bonuses. For example if you have 10% recharge speed increase from attributes and 2000 recovery, a skill with a 20 second CD will have a CD of:
20/(1+0.1+0.1) = 16.6666666667
@chemodan007 for sharing his own testing of hr, which I used to check mine. He had also already found values for clear the ground which I was missing and pointed out that hawk shot has a maximum (which I didn't notice.) He also pointed out the seeker's vengeance offhand. He also pointed out that Plant growth has a 0th rank.
@gylnar killed me a few times to test gloaming cut.
@michela123 corrected my test for Thorn Strike and pointed out inconsistencies with Clear the Ground and Cold Steel Hurricane. Also pointed out I was missing the third hit of Rapid Strike. Also pointed out the second hit of Relentless Avenger was missing. Also pointed out the values for Flame Strike and Divine Glow were incorrect and that Brood of Hadar's AoE splash damage was missing.
@micky1p00 provided the original formula I used to do this test, as well as suggested methods to get more accurate results.
@rjc9000 pointed out I missed 2 GF at wills plus indomitable strength and was the pedantic person who noticed that not all classes use strength for their damage bonus. Tested Supremacy of Steel.
An unmentioned credit, to the people who helped with Level Based Weapon Damage. You know who you are.
Explanation:
Recently, fixed damage weapons were provided to us on preview. This made it possible to test how damage and healing scales, at a fundamental level, far more accurately and easily than before. This thread explains at a basic level, how all skills function. The complete function for damage is as follows:
(Credits to @micky1p00 for providing this picture, please note, not all classes use strength.)
This thread focuses on this part:
(Level Based Weapon Damage+Weapon Damage)*Ability Coefficient*Skill Type Bonus*Rank Modifier
The Level Based Weapon Damage is determined by 2 things primarily, the first being the level of your character and the second is your class. The exception is HR, where they have a different Level Based Weapon Damage depending on stance and GWF, which has a different number for some skills. The skill Type Bonus is a multiplier that is dependent on the skill type. At wills are multiplied by 1, Encounters are multiplied by 3 and daily powers are multiplied by 5. Here is a list of all coefficients for each class at level 70:
- CW: 144.42482
- DC: 144.42482
- GF: 173.309784
- GWF: 173.309784
- HR (Melee Stance): 86.65489
- HR (Ranged Stance): 144.42482
- OP: 173.309784
- SW: 144.42482
- TR: 86.65489
The Rank Modifier is different per skill and is denoted in that document as, "Rank Type Bonus."
It has the general form of ((1-Rank Bonus)+Rank Bonus*Rank)
For example, if a skill gains 10% damage per rank, the formula is: ((1-0.1)+Rank*0.1)
Using this information, it is possible to calculate the tooltips (and actual damage/healing dealt) for abilities before any other bonuses are applied. For example, if we look at a CW with the following stats:
and 1 rank in disintegrate.
The test orb has 1000 fixed damage, so it always does a roll of 1000.
If we take the values from the spreadsheet we get the following:
(144.425+1000)*3*1.09(Because our character has 19 int.) = 3742.26975
The actual damage dealt is:
The final value at the end is the value before the mobs DR is applied.
- The tooltip for the minimum value of Scorching Burst is incorrect.
- The tooltip for disintegrate is incorrect, the way it works is it adds (2.6+Rank*0.4)*Weapon Damage off tab and (4.6+Rank*0.4)*Weapon Damage on tab. That extra value is not modified by the 1.15 rank bonus and is the damage dealt when the target is on low enough HP. It is modified by buffs however. It is worth noting it is supposed to be 4.8 and 2.8 and not 2.6 and 4.6, but oh well, poor tooltips.
- If storm spell procs off an entity, it does not have Level Based Weapon Damage.
- The tooltip for bastion of health counts 3x the initial heal and 6x the HoT, for whatever reason.
- The tooltip for Healing Word counts 3x the initial heal and 6x the HoT.
- The Level Based Weapon Damage for Indomitable Strength and Hidden Daggers is 207.572 for some reason.
- I can only get Come and Get It to deal damage from Punishing Charge.
- Bear Trap uses 144.425 for Level Based Weapon Damage despite being a Melee Power.
- Aimed Shot and Thorn Ward use 86.655 for Level Based Weapon Damage despite being ranged powers.
- Cold Steel Hurricane has no Level Based Weapon damage.
- Cordon of Arrows and Plant Growth have a rank 0, unlike other skills.
- Valorous Strike and Oath Strike Deal 20% more damage than the tooltip states.
- Cleansing Touch Heals for 8.6% more than the tooltip states.
- Most OP Skills have no tooltips, I suppose this is probably for the best.
- The damage bonus for Smite also increases the heal component.
- The damage bonus for Accursed Souls also boosts the heal component.
- Tab Curse Boosts Curse Bite's damage by 30%, not 20%.
- The Soul Link component of Warlock's Bargain deals a hidden tick of damage which does not scale with Rank.
- The heal component of the Soul Link from Warlock's Bargain scales incorrectly and gains 65% healing at rank 2, a further 75% healing at rank 3 and another 85% healing at rank 4, for a total multiplier of 3.25.
- The maximum value for the tooltip of Killing Flames is incorrect.
- Smoke Bomb has a damage range with fixed damage weapons.
- The tooltip for the extra damage on Gloaming Cut as the target's HP diminishes is wrong. It actually starts at 5% and gains 20% per rank, rather than starting at 20% and gaining 5% per rank.
The first thing you need to do is note your attribute bonuses, so you can factor them out. If you are testing a heal, then whatever attribute boosts your healing needs to be factored out and if you are testing a damaging encounter, then whatever boosts your damage needs to be factored out.
Example:
Dexterity is a HR's damage attribute. With 19 Dexterity, there is a 9% damage boost, or a multiplier of 1.09.
You also need to use a weapon with fixed damage, these can be found on preview, in the Wondrous Bazaar. Make sure when testing this your character has no gear on.
In this example, we will find the values using Careful Attack. With Careful Attack at rank 3, there should be a 1.2 multiplier for Careful Attack. To make sure of this, you need to get a hit at each rank to ensure they are increasing by 10% each rank. In this example, we will work with rank 3 careful attack. You need 1 hit with and without your weapon on. To get a value without your weapon on, apply careful attack in melee stance with the fixed damage weapons, switch stance, remove your daggers and get 1 hit with a bow. Since Careful Attack scales off your melee weapon and not your ranged weapon, you now got a value without weapon damage.
Example:
The value 639.6 was with the fixed damage weapon and the value 51 was without it. To get the exact values, right click on either of those entries and press, "select this action in view logs."
Example:
Now, copy these exact values down and head over to here:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/widgets/view.jsp?id=ae438682ce61743f90d4693c497621b7
Input the following:
Equation #1: (X+1000)*Y*1.09*1.2=639.605
Equation #2: X*Y*1.09*1.2=51.0051
You should then get these results:
Since you are simply solving an equation, it is fairly easy to get these values. To check these values, now stick on any weapon of your choice (that doesn't have power to make it easier) and now substitute in the values you have, but with a new weapon damage, to check the range matches.
I have since added skill base CDs to this spreadsheet, so here is a cursory explanation of how recharge speed increase works.
Recharge Speed Increase:
Different sources of recharge speed increase add together. The final CD of your skill is determined by the base CD divided by the sum of all recharge speed increase bonuses. For example if you have 10% recharge speed increase from attributes and 2000 recovery, a skill with a 20 second CD will have a CD of:
20/(1+0.1+0.1) = 16.6666666667
Post edited by thefabricant on
14
Comments
jkjk mad scientist, great work as per usual.
This makes perfect sense to me in some cases, but in other cases, I can't quite figure it out why something with a similar coefficient has drastically different damage. Sudden storm does much less damage than disintegrate, even factoring in the bonus type and focused wizardy it doesn't cover the damage difference. A GWF in our guild also is trying to figure out indomitable battle strike and crescendo, even with executioner's style it doesn't seem to cover the gap in indomitable battle strike being a ton better than crescendo.
SS:
3*1.3*0.9=3.51
Dis:
3*1.45*1.3=5.655
Which is a substantial difference, dealing 61% more damage just off those 2 differences alone. fixed @rjc9000.
I also added the base cd for every skill that has a cd, removed the second blitz and disruptive shot is no longer an encounter.
I'm wondering if I should try to calculate AP Gain or simply wait for you to calculate AP Gain so I can cite you a million times on that thing I'm working on.
(If you're wondering, it was approaching somewhere near completion, but then my laptop's hard drive broke and the file was un-recoverable, so... I only have a partially finished version).
SS = coef * (0.9 + rank * 0.1 damage per rank)
= 3 * (.9 + (4 * .1))
= 3 * 1.3 = 3.9
Dis = coef * (0.85 + rank * 0.15 damage per rank)
= 3 * (.85 + (4 * .15))
= 3 * (.85 + .6)
= 3 * 1.45 = 4.35
Where do the .9 and 1.3 in the third part of the formula come from @thefabricant ?
And for Clear the Ground, are the "minmum/maximum" hits are stand in for the first/third hits, or are they actually accounting for the minimum/maximum distances?
And how would I account for the distance scaling, if, say, I attack my target at point blank range?
Also, you are correct about the number of ticks on thorn ward, the way it works is it ticks (5+rank*2) times, so at rank 1 it ticks 7 times, rank 2 9, rank 3 11, etc.
It should be 2.40, according to my math/hand testing. Here is the data in the event you'd like to check my math:
Exact Damage: 3807.16
Uses (0.9 +0.1 *Ability Rank), so in this case, 1.4 is our rank bonus
Lvl70 GF Level Base, 1000 damage via fixed damage weapon, and 1.04 for ability bonus due to 14 STR .
I assure you I had no feats or boons equipped, although the "Featless IV" is probably a misnomer...
Math:
Ability Damage = (Lvl Base + Wpn Damage) * (1+ ([STR-10]/100)) * (Ability Coefficient) * (Rank Bonus)
3807.16 = (173.31 + 1,000) * (1 + [(14-10)/100]) * (?) * (0.9 + 0.1 * 4.0)
3807.16 = 1173.31 * (1.04) * (1.3) * ?
2.40 =?