@finalfantasyac7 I don't know anything about pvp since I stopped with insigna's income but I know your pve spells aren't optimized at all !
Then, you outdps a GWF ok but he isn't even in party...
Assuming you were already outdpsing him before he left, your party doesn't seem to be really good in average (which can be seen by the slow boss kill).
So, I don't think you're mastering your class more than anyone else. You're just not playing at bis level. (In pve, one more time)
PS : You're on Xbox. Which means you're not on mod 11 and have WE enhancement.
I agree, as pvp specced i can't actually out dps a pve dps class (unless they are low IL or have a bad build) By saying i mastered the class, i know what stats requires to do damage. Its not only power, crit and armor pen. Here is an hint ; Hellbringer, using owlbear, air and fire archon (other 2 comp is for you to choose), 5k crit or less, use proper dps insignias, armor pen around 6 or 7k, combat advantage damage 2k. Power as much you can stack, make use of lesser curse, have fun using pop. You'll do insane dps and with dc/gf or both buffs you'll melt enemies with pop and dreadtheft combo.
PC and xBox , two different galaxies. I run a DC, a Warlock and a GF in mSVA. From all those runs I can tell that GWF is the topscorer and GF...sometimes. It is not valid to say all those warlocks are scrubs and do not know how to build their char. At the last mSVA a 4.3 Conqueror GF, using Knights Challenge, Kneebreaker and Commander Strike vs Boss, dealt >1/3 more than a top equipped GWF and CW and double of some other striker in that raid, near 30 times more than the DC (me). Sure he knew what he was doing and he did not run ITF, but his build showed tank equip, >200k HP and a lot of power. Maybe the rest were scrubs, but he tanked and dealt damage same time protected by AA.
About PVP I only can estimate from the vids PavlosT and PinkPanther showed. Soulbinder looks like a Nodeholder tank-setup and can´t be killed 2-3 vs 1 but can´t kill 1 vs 1 at endlevel. Hellbringer is more squishy but able to beat classes 1 vs 1 but needs some mobility to avoid big hits.
@finalfantasyac7 I don't know anything about pvp since I stopped with insigna's income but I know your pve spells aren't optimized at all !
Then, you outdps a GWF ok but he isn't even in party...
Assuming you were already outdpsing him before he left, your party doesn't seem to be really good in average (which can be seen by the slow boss kill).
So, I don't think you're mastering your class more than anyone else. You're just not playing at bis level. (In pve, one more time)
PS : You're on Xbox. Which means you're not on mod 11 and have WE enhancement.
I agree, as pvp specced i can't actually out dps a pve dps class (unless they are low IL or have a bad build) By saying i mastered the class, i know what stats requires to do damage. Its not only power, crit and armor pen. Here is an hint ; Hellbringer, using owlbear, air and fire archon (other 2 comp is for you to choose), 5k crit or less, use proper dps insignias, armor pen around 6 or 7k, combat advantage damage 2k. Power as much you can stack, make use of lesser curse, have fun using pop. You'll do insane dps and with dc/gf or both buffs you'll melt enemies with pop and dreadtheft combo.
Sorry for my bad english, im dutch
I see what you are saying, but the point here is still true: SW is supposed to be at least top 3 DPS without that person having to be in the top 5% in skill level. Right now MOST CW, HR, GWF, and GF all beat SW MOST of the time. There's simply no reason that someone sould be able to build a primarily tank class and be top DPS by a large margin. Just like SW should never be able to outbuff a DC, since even temp SW also contributes good damage. Basically the problem is there are at least 2-3 classes that do something better than SW does. I don't count heals because I still maintain that most people that care about min/max runs (and that's really what we're talking about here) don't give a HAMSTER about heals.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
@finalfantasyac7 I don't know anything about pvp since I stopped with insigna's income but I know your pve spells aren't optimized at all !
Then, you outdps a GWF ok but he isn't even in party...
Assuming you were already outdpsing him before he left, your party doesn't seem to be really good in average (which can be seen by the slow boss kill).
So, I don't think you're mastering your class more than anyone else. You're just not playing at bis level. (In pve, one more time)
PS : You're on Xbox. Which means you're not on mod 11 and have WE enhancement.
I agree, as pvp specced i can't actually out dps a pve dps class (unless they are low IL or have a bad build) By saying i mastered the class, i know what stats requires to do damage. Its not only power, crit and armor pen. Here is an hint ; Hellbringer, using owlbear, air and fire archon (other 2 comp is for you to choose), 5k crit or less, use proper dps insignias, armor pen around 6 or 7k, combat advantage damage 2k. Power as much you can stack, make use of lesser curse, have fun using pop. You'll do insane dps and with dc/gf or both buffs you'll melt enemies with pop and dreadtheft combo.
Don't say that is not how you make a dps sw if you haven't tried yet. Owlbear + CA damage will do more dps then crit alone. Use legendary air or fire archon as your main and try to get power as high as possible. WIth dc and op power share you will out dps gwf, hr, tr and gf. Make sure your both con and cha are 25, with campfire buff it will be 26. Use Elixir of fate which gives 1 point to all your abilities. use power glyps and see the difference in dps. Dont use vorpal or dread.. try feytouch
Note: if owlbear ever gets another nerf then this build will become kinda useless
On console (pre-weapon enchant changes), you can't compete in DPS by stacking power to take advantage of the Owlbear. Sure, you may beat some players here and there, and you will do quite well on trash AoE, but you will also get utterly destroyed in single target and/or by any other knowledgable player with equivalent gear.
Many of you are talking about DPS companions, insignias, and ability scores that provide base damage buffs which do not affect Infantile Compensation, so it's clear you may be a bit confused on how it works.
If you really want to hang with the big boys (console), you're looking at a crit build using dread or vorpal. This is especially true in the newer content that heavily favors single target builds.
Don't say that is not how you make a dps sw if you haven't tried yet.
In fact, I have found another explanation. It is in your signature : "Member of JHSF - GH20" With max guild power boons, you can beat more easily anyone equally-geared because you will deal around 20% more damage (perhaps less if there is a dimishing return but I don't know much about it).
The weapon buffing has not yet reached xbox : maybe you will be right then (as they scale with power) but I am not convinced for the moment, even if I understand your strategy.
I can´t tell how much power a warlock can stack in the end, far less than a GWF btw. But I also doubt that a critbuild will loose to a power setup. The way is allways crit till 100% and than power imo, I also did not have any better results with my T Feytouched so far, but I am SB, so maybe PoP+owlbear will do better... the moment that owlbear drops, I am sure it is fixed. Really want to run a HB setup again. Atm my SB Warlock can hold against equally geared/skilled GWF on single target (talking abot the normal average GWF). Sure no way to hold against some extraordinary GWF´s - @thefabricant posted an 33.000.000 IBS last week from that Duck, guess it was FBI.... crazy┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
I can´t tell how much power a warlock can stack in the end, far less than a GWF btw. But I also doubt that a critbuild will loose to a power setup. The way is allways crit till 100% and than power imo, I also did not have any better results with my T Feytouched so far, but I am SB, so maybe PoP+owlbear will do better... the moment that owlbear drops, I am sure it is fixed. Really want to run a HB setup again. Atm my SB Warlock can hold against equally geared/skilled GWF on single target (talking abot the normal average GWF). Sure no way to hold against some extraordinary GWF´s - @thefabricant posted an 33.000.000 IBS last week from that Duck, guess it was FBI.... crazy┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
My guess is that the owlbear multiprocs with DT, so with max guild boons (8k power) and max power stacking on the gear, finalfantasyac7 can do some interesting additional damage.
But still, crit builds are more frequent and have proven to be efficient. However, I would say a 2:1 power/crit ratio is good until you reach 100% crit chance. Indeed, it is a waste (and a big loss in damage) to invest on crit if you only have 10k total power for example.
I got an owlbear in tiamat a few weeks ago, but I only got 2 respec tokens during the winter festival, so I cannot test either (I am SB too).
I can´t tell how much power a warlock can stack in the end, far less than a GWF btw. But I also doubt that a critbuild will loose to a power setup. The way is allways crit till 100% and than power imo, I also did not have any better results with my T Feytouched so far, but I am SB, so maybe PoP+owlbear will do better... the moment that owlbear drops, I am sure it is fixed. Really want to run a HB setup again. Atm my SB Warlock can hold against equally geared/skilled GWF on single target (talking abot the normal average GWF). Sure no way to hold against some extraordinary GWF´s - @thefabricant posted an 33.000.000 IBS last week from that Duck, guess it was FBI.... crazy┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
People comparing the way they are in the thread will never understand. Of course I dealt once 255 milions damage with murderous flames when it was possible to stack 1870% effectiveness. Being 3k+ can as well basically say that you are best in slot for PvE dps, anything over is meaning you either upgraded utility or defense which in neglected in PvE anyway due to Annointed Army and other tanking means if neccesarry people can go back to OP+GF with KV and the outcome will be the same.
Im aware that what Im writing is unpopular many disagree some rage, but this is merely an opinion of some random warlock.
WickedDuck is my favourite example I remember very well reading as he was rejected from running mSVA because he was not 4.3k GWF yet Im absolutely sure that WickedDuck would outperform any of their best DPS in server easily.
There were more examples when not everybody understood conception of Conqueror GF and even those who run it didnt exactly knew what happened when the player called "Freya" with the handle @d66723225 outperformed at 3k til every other GF in GF only tiamat run, including some 4,3k GFs with same spec and bondings in a 25 Tiamat GF run. Every once in a while someone exceptional comes and with the crazy idea he has burns a new path and creates a meta.
I stopped pursuing my DPS which I call chasing the carrot, I dont really need to think about switchin vorpal for dread for the sake of doing some dps more or not, vice versa if valid. Since in PvP all measurements are different than whats in PvE this isnt really hard to build DPS toon, just got your bondings up high, put it on your sellsword, equip him with IG's new +4 double offense slotted stuff, put into it brutals or radiants, all radiants in offense on your toon and you are basically bis with 3k. I dont really need to run content in 10 minutes either to exclude someone weaker from my group, Im fine with 40 minutes FBI or even 1 hour, really.
If anyone mistakenly read this thread as SW sucks in DPS and came in here to give awsome examples of his uber build with his uber numbers, sorry to be saying this Im hardly impressed, you havent brought anything "new" like some of the examples mentioned earlier. I believe people who suck from time to time cause they try and change build are way more valuable anyday over those who copy and are able to pull out some crazy numbers although congrats on that too.
To me people saying you dont do dps this way you have to it another way or my IBS did more damage than yours is like comparing your HAMSTER size to your friends..
I do no min/max and my glasscanon crit-build sometime sucks, sqishy and oneway, not able to tank some Big HE´s in Stronghold etc., but it is the only build that deals sufficient damage atm.. That´s what I play PVE for, same as you play PVP, to be "competetive", no matter if PVE content is trivial or PVP is boring and broken and near dead as long as no drastical rework is done. PVP is the same "my Hamster is bigger than yours" in ever aspect, if not worse imo.
Btw, there are a lot of buggy thing in NWO, me and you maybe don´t know about. Warlock was a heavily bug related itself, I think even now TC is not 100% bugfree. We knew about broken combination of KC+CS from GF. There definitely is a buggy thing about TR and powerstacking somehow. Hunter owns bugs. No clue about CW if it´s still in the favor of 100% crit by one power/feat, not to talk about some buffs that seem to stack or simply are buggy leading to super high effectiveness in a group. OP is/was buggy... too manny bugs or broken things involved. Lately that critsevereity bug was an issue, reminds me of that jagged blade years ago, lot´s of ingame stuff is not mentioned in the forum, since you shortcut dungeons and bossfights by using bugs. I am sure some player keep secrets because they want thing like they are.
I appreciate every new idea, but there is not much happening about crazy new setups tbh. New Weapon enchants don´t work for a striker warlock, sadly we are bound to crit/vorp, and from what I saw Lightning/Bilethorn is good for aoe, but definitely sucks on single target. Powerbuilds ... never saw any prove for being valid. I am curious about it but won´t try myself, as long as that owlbear doesn´t drop. Btw. Owlbear is said to proc only on the first hit from DT ?
I can´t tell how much power a warlock can stack in the end, far less than a GWF btw. But I also doubt that a critbuild will loose to a power setup. The way is allways crit till 100% and than power imo, I also did not have any better results with my T Feytouched so far, but I am SB, so maybe PoP+owlbear will do better... the moment that owlbear drops, I am sure it is fixed. Really want to run a HB setup again. Atm my SB Warlock can hold against equally geared/skilled GWF on single target (talking abot the normal average GWF). Sure no way to hold against some extraordinary GWF´s - @thefabricant posted an 33.000.000 IBS last week from that Duck, guess it was FBI.... crazy┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
People comparing the way they are in the thread will never understand. Of course I dealt once 255 milions damage with murderous flames when it was possible to stack 1870% effectiveness. Being 3k+ can as well basically say that you are best in slot for PvE dps, anything over is meaning you either upgraded utility or defense which in neglected in PvE anyway due to Annointed Army and other tanking means if neccesarry people can go back to OP+GF with KV and the outcome will be the same.
Im aware that what Im writing is unpopular many disagree some rage, but this is merely an opinion of some random warlock.
WickedDuck is my favourite example I remember very well reading as he was rejected from running mSVA because he was not 4.3k GWF yet Im absolutely sure that WickedDuck would outperform any of their best DPS in server easily.
There were more examples when not everybody understood conception of Conqueror GF and even those who run it didnt exactly knew what happened when the player called "Freya" with the handle @d66723225 outperformed at 3k til every other GF in GF only tiamat run, including some 4,3k GFs with same spec and bondings in a 25 Tiamat GF run. Every once in a while someone exceptional comes and with the crazy idea he has burns a new path and creates a meta.
I stopped pursuing my DPS which I call chasing the carrot, I dont really need to think about switchin vorpal for dread for the sake of doing some dps more or not, vice versa if valid. Since in PvP all measurements are different than whats in PvE this isnt really hard to build DPS toon, just got your bondings up high, put it on your sellsword, equip him with IG's new +4 double offense slotted stuff, put into it brutals or radiants, all radiants in offense on your toon and you are basically bis with 3k. I dont really need to run content in 10 minutes either to exclude someone weaker from my group, Im fine with 40 minutes FBI or even 1 hour, really.
If anyone mistakenly read this thread as SW sucks in DPS and came in here to give awsome examples of his uber build with his uber numbers, sorry to be saying this Im hardly impressed, you havent brought anything "new" like some of the examples mentioned earlier. I believe people who suck from time to time cause they try and change build are way more valuable anyday over those who copy and are able to pull out some crazy numbers although congrats on that too.
To me people saying you dont do dps this way you have to it another way or my IBS did more damage than yours is like comparing your HAMSTER size to your friends..
I do no min/max and my glasscanon crit-build sometime sucks, sqishy and oneway, not able to tank some Big HE´s in Stronghold etc., but it is the only build that deals sufficient damage atm.. That´s what I play PVE for, same as you play PVP, to be "competetive", no matter if PVE content is trivial or PVP is boring and broken and near dead as long as no drastical rework is done. PVP is the same "my Hamster is bigger than yours" in ever aspect, if not worse imo.
Btw, there are a lot of buggy thing in NWO, me and you maybe don´t know about. Warlock was a heavily bug related itself, I think even now TC is not 100% bugfree. We knew about broken combination of KC+CS from GF. There definitely is a buggy thing about TR and powerstacking somehow. Hunter owns bugs. No clue about CW if it´s still in the favor of 100% crit by one power/feat, not to talk about some buffs that seem to stack or simply are buggy leading to super high effectiveness in a group. OP is/was buggy... too manny bugs or broken things involved. Lately that critsevereity bug was an issue, reminds me of that jagged blade years ago, lot´s of ingame stuff is not mentioned in the forum, since you shortcut dungeons and bossfights by using bugs. I am sure some player keep secrets because they want thing like they are.
I appreciate every new idea, but there is not much happening about crazy new setups tbh. New Weapon enchants don´t work for a striker warlock, sadly we are bound to crit/vorp, and from what I saw Lightning/Bilethorn is good for aoe, but definitely sucks on single target. Powerbuilds ... never saw any prove for being valid. I am curious about it but won´t try myself, as long as that owlbear doesn´t drop. Btw. Owlbear is said to proc only on the first hit from DT ?
I had heard the same about DT and decided to settle it for myself. I tested on a dummy and found that it was proccing on every non-crit on console (Xbox). I can post a screenshot on Wednesday when I'm home.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
It procs on console on every (edit) non-crit tick of DT and BoVA.
It procs on console on every tick of PoP.
Sounds nice but I also don´t think it´s benefitial to lower your critrate to let´s say 50% , only to benefit some more from that bearcup ? Would be great to test a powerbuild with owlbear/feytouched against a critbuild somedays. Owlbear procs 50% Weapondamage, a crit by using Vorp is an 2.7 multiplicator (using Wild Storm Elixir 2.8) for that DT tick ! Not to beat imo.
Feytouched vs Dread? I run both as SB, feytouched only for a short period for now doing FBI and some others If I hit a dummy with my test weapon using vampiric embrance, having 100% critseverity:
8617 crit without Enchant 10168 crit with T Fey +18% 11889 crit with T Dread +38% (37,5% on paper)--- if you take into that Dread buffs your group and yourself 4% + 4%, I guess it´s more than 40% +dps (having 100% critseverity).
Vorp will be in between like 10771 +25%
On Paper Dread wins the race definitely for a critbuild, especially if you use encounter all time. A nice benefit from Fey is the synergy with HG - sparkgain- (someone told me ingame, thx), like multiprocs on Bilethorn and Lightning. I have to do more runs, but atm won´t recommand Fey over Dread for a SB, because I deal near all damage with encounter. If you run a HB, using Owlbear and stack power over crit, it might beat Vorp, beside the nice debuff making you more tanky, but vorp also procs a 2% debuff for the hole group. Hard to tell above wich critchance Vorp > Fey, since Fey also buff your owlbear I guess, so maybe you need near 100% Critchance to beat that Fey being an Owlbringer? Someone else needs to check it I guess.
I agree with @etelgrin about the SW getting weaker, especially after @amenar left. It appears @amenar unfortunately balanced the SW class around bugged Tyrannical Curse behavior. In hindsight, Tyrannical Curse should have been balanced more effectively along with a base increase in our encounter damage coefficient.
On console, there are a few decent SWs that can compete with other classes. Mind you, these SWs typically have 6 offensive slots on their companion along with legendary mounts for +4000 power or crit coupled with the Tenser's disk mount combat power. In other words, it is much more costly for a SW to compete for top DPS. (Yes, I am aware anything would appear more costly after Soul Puppets and Murderous Flames are basically free.)
The top SWs, however, do not compare against the top HR, TR, GWF, or even GF in Lostmauth, Castle Never, Demogorgon, Fangbreaker, mSVA, etc. Other classes have better ways of melting single targets than we do currently.
For the past month I have been running a 23% crit chance buff templock as support using DT, BoVA, and PoP coupled with ACC for DT debuff synergy. Power of the Nine Hells and Dark Revelry provide an uncapped damage bonus to the group which is much more beneficial once your groups get to the point you can bo longer buff/debuff. The SW damage output and buffs make for a balanced character and is very useful in endgame content.
PoP+Dark Revelry. That´s maybe a 6-7% dps buff from DR and a 12% buff from PoP...sure not capped, but if you compare this with other open buffs like: -ITF 35% from Tactitian-GF, apart from this heavy mitigation that class can offer (up to 85% if you combine KV+KC) -AA+BoB+WoL powerbuff >100k power not capped -DC -Hollowed ground 30% + dps - DC -Longstrider Shot is 40% dps buff, not capped, from Hunter ... no clue about the other classes, but I guess OP, CW beat your lock, only TR and GWF stay below him in terms of buffs. Building a party, I pick a GF or OP, a DC, a CW, a Hunter and another striker, maybe a HB Fury or GWF or a SS CW
But take this as a measure for "if or if not your warlock is a good buffer/debuffer" and I also take into account DT debuff, wich only lasts for 8 seconds!! uptime about 30% We end where we started, it needs to happen something about temptation and some other stuff
CW buffs/debuffs are capped and pure CW MoF buff/debuff builds put out pitiful damage as a consequence.
Longstrider's Shot (LSS) is not comparable due to the downtime.
Of course DC buffs are superior to SW, and every other class, too.
PoP is a 10% debuff.
DT is a 25% debuff.
(I run a Dread and Con Artist for additional debuffs).
Dark Revelry is a 4-5% damage bonus depending on recipient's base 'Items' power stat.
PoP is a 18% (I believe) party base damage buff if Power of the Nine Hells feat is chosen. Basically 100% uptime unless you have a HR Archer in your party.
DT uptime of 8 seconds is enough to wipe out any T2 (or lower) mob pack or boss. Beyond that, if you have a DC and or OP, cooldown reductions are so extreme that it's a non-issue.
Couple these factors with the ability to out-heal any other class along with the ability to output respectable damage (albiet potentially non-WAI Owlbear damage), and the class is quite beneficial. No other support class can come close to matching the damage output. Healing is appreciated in FBI during hill climb and can save your party in mSVA.
As a non-standardized benchmark, my templock AoE DPS is +/- 20% relative to the best player you can find (yes, +20%). My single target DPS is between 25% and 50% (very low) of the best player you can find. This is a non-issue because the bosses melt so quickly nobody thinks twice or cares.
CW buffs/debuffs are capped and pure CW MoF buff/debuff builds put out pitiful damage as a consequence.
Longstrider's Shot (LSS) is not comparable due to the downtime.
Of course DC buffs are superior to SW, and every other class, too.
PoP is a 10% debuff.
DT is a 25% debuff.
(I run a Dread and Con Artist for additional debuffs).
Dark Revelry is a 4-5% damage bonus
depending on recipient's base 'Items' power stat.
PoP is a 18% (I believe) party base damage buff if Power of the Nine Hells feat is chosen. Basically 100% uptime unless you have a HR Archer in your party.
DT uptime of 8 seconds is enough to wipe out any T2 (or lower) mob pack or boss. Beyond that, if you have a DC and or OP, cooldown reductions are so extreme that it's a non-issue.
Couple these factors with the ability to out-heal any other class along with the ability to output respectable damage (albiet potentially non-WAI Owlbear damage), and the class is quite beneficial. No other support class can come close to matching the damage output. Healing is appreciated in FBI during hill climb and can save your party in mSVA.
As a non-standardized benchmark, my templock AoE DPS is +/- 20% relative to the best player you can find (yes, +20%). My single target DPS is between 25% and 50% (very low) of the best player you can find. This is a non-issue because the bosses melt so quickly nobody thinks twice or cares.
Not sure about that CW mof, but he can push effectiveness of the group above 200%. That´s what i saw on ACT several times and this can´t be done by capped buffs, despite what you read and what is said. I don not believe all i get told, and about that CW there has to be a reason why he performs that way.
Apart from DR 5-7%, PoP is only from bigger value in static fights. Even a TR can debuff 21% and I guess the uptime is better than DT, wich is also capped, not sure about the so said "multiplier" effect this debuff should have? Sry but I do not agree about warlock being a better buffer/debuffer compared to other classes, tbh he is inferior to GF/DC/OP/CW in my eyes, can´t tell about uptime of longstrider, but as you said, DC with hastening light reduces CD and by that a 40% dps buff is nothing a warlock can spend even taking all his buff at once. Only thing he spends on top is healing ability.
It's not so much about whether or not a CW can boost effectiveness by 50%, 100%, 200%, 200%+, etc.
It's more that a good 5-person group can achieve 250%-285% effectiveness (highest I have seen, but I am sure it can go higher) without a CW while pushing out more DPS from their "support" classes.
Effectiveness is great, but so are passives such as Aura of Courage and base damage bonuses.
Damage and debuffs/buffs... Take a Conqueror GF, I witnessed several runs for now in mSVA, different player some of them I know from forum. In case a second GF is in the party running KV/ITF he can go for KC/CS/KB, otherwise he drops CS or KB. That way he outdamages the hole raid significantly, dealing 2 or 3 times the damage of the involved warlock ... by blocking most of the time, lol. Knights Challenge on the boss reduces incoming damage 50% for the raid and ITF 30% buff 24/7 beside debuffing the target up to 18% for the hole raid by CP+mark. This might stop when DC rework is done, but I guess at 4.2 IL you might still run a pretty tanky setup and out dps most other striker by that. I did an FBI lately with a random group (GF-DC-CW-warlock-guess another CW) , my warlock dealt an average effec. by 270% upwards, the spike effect. was 400%, the only class that is allways involved in those runs is the mof-CW. No clue how that works, but you won´t be told in forum I guess...maybe it´s that multiplier thing It was the fastest run since far, since I did my first run with my PVP-lock and got pulled through FBI by one of @thefabricant max buff groups before the setboni got deleted, thx again. I did not "investigate" anything later, only watched my ACT and was clueless about that numbers.
A HB-templock might be a good support/heal, but I think if you run that Hellbringer as fury, picking "power of the nine hells" (in case it works on live) and skipping DR, you will be from more value in a max-buff party by dealing damage, despite I would like to play the supporter role with my templock and like green numbers. Lately on preview that "power of the nine hells"-feat gave me 24% +damage, no matter if feated or not, but I could not see a benefit for my companion feated, no icon, no buff. Noone checked that on live so far ?
Comments
By saying i mastered the class, i know what stats requires to do damage. Its not only power, crit and armor pen.
Here is an hint ; Hellbringer, using owlbear, air and fire archon (other 2 comp is for you to choose), 5k crit or less, use proper dps insignias, armor pen around 6 or 7k, combat advantage damage 2k. Power as much you can stack, make use of lesser curse, have fun using pop.
You'll do insane dps and with dc/gf or both buffs you'll melt enemies with pop and dreadtheft combo.
Sorry for my bad english, im dutch
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I run a DC, a Warlock and a GF in mSVA. From all those runs I can tell that GWF is the topscorer and GF...sometimes. It is not valid to say all those warlocks are scrubs and do not know how to build their char.
At the last mSVA a 4.3 Conqueror GF, using Knights Challenge, Kneebreaker and Commander Strike vs Boss, dealt >1/3 more than a top equipped GWF and CW and double of some other striker in that raid, near 30 times more than the DC (me). Sure he knew what he was doing and he did not run ITF, but his build showed tank equip, >200k HP and a lot of power.
Maybe the rest were scrubs, but he tanked and dealt damage same time protected by AA.
About PVP I only can estimate from the vids PavlosT and PinkPanther showed.
Soulbinder looks like a Nodeholder tank-setup and can´t be killed 2-3 vs 1 but can´t kill 1 vs 1 at endlevel.
Hellbringer is more squishy but able to beat classes 1 vs 1 but needs some mobility to avoid big hits.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
Owlbear + CA damage will do more dps then crit alone. Use legendary air or fire archon as your main and try to get power as high as possible. WIth dc and op power share you will out dps gwf, hr, tr and gf.
Make sure your both con and cha are 25, with campfire buff it will be 26. Use Elixir of fate which gives 1 point to all your abilities. use power glyps and see the difference in dps.
Dont use vorpal or dread.. try feytouch
Note: if owlbear ever gets another nerf then this build will become kinda useless
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Many of you are talking about DPS companions, insignias, and ability scores that provide base damage buffs which do not affect Infantile Compensation, so it's clear you may be a bit confused on how it works.
If you really want to hang with the big boys (console), you're looking at a crit build using dread or vorpal. This is especially true in the newer content that heavily favors single target builds.
With max guild power boons, you can beat more easily anyone equally-geared because you will deal around 20% more damage (perhaps less if there is a dimishing return but I don't know much about it).
The weapon buffing has not yet reached xbox : maybe you will be right then (as they scale with power) but I am not convinced for the moment, even if I understand your strategy.
But I also doubt that a critbuild will loose to a power setup.
The way is allways crit till 100% and than power imo, I also did not have any better results with my T Feytouched so far, but I am SB, so maybe PoP+owlbear will do better... the moment that owlbear drops, I am sure it is fixed. Really want to run a HB setup again.
Atm my SB Warlock can hold against equally geared/skilled GWF on single target (talking abot the normal average GWF). Sure no way to hold against some extraordinary GWF´s - @thefabricant posted an 33.000.000 IBS last week from that Duck, guess it was FBI.... crazy┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
But still, crit builds are more frequent and have proven to be efficient.
However, I would say a 2:1 power/crit ratio is good until you reach 100% crit chance. Indeed, it is a waste (and a big loss in damage) to invest on crit if you only have 10k total power for example.
I got an owlbear in tiamat a few weeks ago, but I only got 2 respec tokens during the winter festival, so I cannot test either (I am SB too).
Btw, there are a lot of buggy thing in NWO, me and you maybe don´t know about. Warlock was a heavily bug related itself, I think even now TC is not 100% bugfree.
We knew about broken combination of KC+CS from GF. There definitely is a buggy thing about TR and powerstacking somehow. Hunter owns bugs. No clue about CW if it´s still in the favor of 100% crit by one power/feat, not to talk about some buffs that seem to stack or simply are buggy leading to super high effectiveness in a group. OP is/was buggy... too manny bugs or broken things involved. Lately that critsevereity bug was an issue, reminds me of that jagged blade years ago, lot´s of ingame stuff is not mentioned in the forum, since you shortcut dungeons and bossfights by using bugs.
I am sure some player keep secrets because they want thing like they are.
I appreciate every new idea, but there is not much happening about crazy new setups tbh.
New Weapon enchants don´t work for a striker warlock, sadly we are bound to crit/vorp, and from what I saw Lightning/Bilethorn is good for aoe, but definitely sucks on single target.
Powerbuilds ... never saw any prove for being valid. I am curious about it but won´t try myself, as long as that owlbear doesn´t drop. Btw. Owlbear is said to proc only on the first hit from DT ?
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
It procs on console on every tick of PoP.
Would be great to test a powerbuild with owlbear/feytouched against a critbuild somedays.
Owlbear procs 50% Weapondamage, a crit by using Vorp is an 2.7 multiplicator (using Wild Storm Elixir 2.8) for that DT tick ! Not to beat imo.
If I hit a dummy with my test weapon using vampiric embrance, having 100% critseverity:
8617 crit without Enchant
10168 crit with T Fey +18%
11889 crit with T Dread +38% (37,5% on paper)--- if you take into that Dread buffs your group and yourself 4% + 4%, I guess it´s more than 40% +dps (having 100% critseverity).
Vorp will be in between like 10771 +25%
On Paper Dread wins the race definitely for a critbuild, especially if you use encounter all time.
A nice benefit from Fey is the synergy with HG - sparkgain- (someone told me ingame, thx), like multiprocs on Bilethorn and Lightning.
I have to do more runs, but atm won´t recommand Fey over Dread for a SB, because I deal near all damage with encounter.
If you run a HB, using Owlbear and stack power over crit, it might beat Vorp, beside the nice debuff making you more tanky, but vorp also procs a 2% debuff for the hole group.
Hard to tell above wich critchance Vorp > Fey, since Fey also buff your owlbear I guess, so maybe you need near 100% Critchance to beat that Fey being an Owlbringer?
Someone else needs to check it I guess.
On console, there are a few decent SWs that can compete with other classes. Mind you, these SWs typically have 6 offensive slots on their companion along with legendary mounts for +4000 power or crit coupled with the Tenser's disk mount combat power. In other words, it is much more costly for a SW to compete for top DPS. (Yes, I am aware anything would appear more costly after Soul Puppets and Murderous Flames are basically free.)
The top SWs, however, do not compare against the top HR, TR, GWF, or even GF in Lostmauth, Castle Never, Demogorgon, Fangbreaker, mSVA, etc. Other classes have better ways of melting single targets than we do currently.
For the past month I have been running a 23% crit chance buff templock as support using DT, BoVA, and PoP coupled with ACC for DT debuff synergy. Power of the Nine Hells and Dark Revelry provide an uncapped damage bonus to the group which is much more beneficial once your groups get to the point you can bo longer buff/debuff. The SW damage output and buffs make for a balanced character and is very useful in endgame content.
That´s maybe a 6-7% dps buff from DR and a 12% buff from PoP...sure not capped, but if you compare this with other open buffs like:
-ITF 35% from Tactitian-GF, apart from this heavy mitigation that class can offer (up to 85% if you combine KV+KC)
-AA+BoB+WoL powerbuff >100k power not capped -DC
-Hollowed ground 30% + dps - DC
-Longstrider Shot is 40% dps buff, not capped, from Hunter
... no clue about the other classes, but I guess OP, CW beat your lock, only TR and GWF stay below him in terms of buffs.
Building a party, I pick a GF or OP, a DC, a CW, a Hunter and another striker, maybe a HB Fury or GWF or a SS CW
But take this as a measure for "if or if not your warlock is a good buffer/debuffer" and I also take into account DT debuff, wich only lasts for 8 seconds!! uptime about 30%
We end where we started, it needs to happen something about temptation and some other stuff
Longstrider's Shot (LSS) is not comparable due to the downtime.
Of course DC buffs are superior to SW, and every other class, too.
PoP is a 10% debuff.
DT is a 25% debuff.
(I run a Dread and Con Artist for additional debuffs).
Dark Revelry is a 4-5% damage bonus
depending on recipient's base 'Items' power stat.
PoP is a 18% (I believe) party base damage buff if Power of the Nine Hells feat is chosen. Basically 100% uptime unless you have a HR Archer in your party.
DT uptime of 8 seconds is enough to wipe out any T2 (or lower) mob pack or boss. Beyond that, if you have a DC and or OP, cooldown reductions are so extreme that it's a non-issue.
Couple these factors with the ability to out-heal any other class along with the ability to output respectable damage (albiet potentially non-WAI Owlbear damage), and the class is quite beneficial. No other support class can come close to matching the damage output. Healing is appreciated in FBI during hill climb and can save your party in mSVA.
As a non-standardized benchmark, my templock AoE DPS is +/- 20% relative to the best player you can find (yes, +20%). My single target DPS is between 25% and 50% (very low) of the best player you can find. This is a non-issue because the bosses melt so quickly nobody thinks twice or cares.
Apart from DR 5-7%, PoP is only from bigger value in static fights.
Even a TR can debuff 21% and I guess the uptime is better than DT, wich is also capped, not sure about the so said "multiplier" effect this debuff should have?
Sry but I do not agree about warlock being a better buffer/debuffer compared to other classes, tbh he is inferior to GF/DC/OP/CW in my eyes, can´t tell about uptime of longstrider, but as you said, DC with hastening light reduces CD and by that a 40% dps buff is nothing a warlock can spend even taking all his buff at once. Only thing he spends on top is healing ability.
It's more that a good 5-person group can achieve 250%-285% effectiveness (highest I have seen, but I am sure it can go higher) without a CW while pushing out more DPS from their "support" classes.
Effectiveness is great, but so are passives such as Aura of Courage and base damage bonuses.
Take a Conqueror GF, I witnessed several runs for now in mSVA, different player some of them I know from forum. In case a second GF is in the party running KV/ITF he can go for KC/CS/KB, otherwise he drops CS or KB.
That way he outdamages the hole raid significantly, dealing 2 or 3 times the damage of the involved warlock ... by blocking most of the time, lol.
Knights Challenge on the boss reduces incoming damage 50% for the raid and ITF 30% buff 24/7 beside debuffing the target up to 18% for the hole raid by CP+mark. This might stop when DC rework is done, but I guess at 4.2 IL you might still run a pretty tanky setup and out dps most other striker by that.
I did an FBI lately with a random group (GF-DC-CW-warlock-guess another CW) , my warlock dealt an average effec. by 270% upwards, the spike effect. was 400%, the only class that is allways involved in those runs is the mof-CW. No clue how that works, but you won´t be told in forum I guess...maybe it´s that multiplier thing
It was the fastest run since far, since I did my first run with my PVP-lock and got pulled through FBI by one of @thefabricant max buff groups before the setboni got deleted, thx again. I did not "investigate" anything later, only watched my ACT and was clueless about that numbers.
A HB-templock might be a good support/heal, but I think if you run that Hellbringer as fury, picking "power of the nine hells" (in case it works on live) and skipping DR, you will be from more value in a max-buff party by dealing damage, despite I would like to play the supporter role with my templock and like green numbers.
Lately on preview that "power of the nine hells"-feat gave me 24% +damage, no matter if feated or not, but I could not see a benefit for my companion feated, no icon, no buff.
Noone checked that on live so far ?