wait and you will see the tome of something in new module and willl still say about drain:)
I'm sure, the Tome of Ascendance in Mod 11 will pretty quickly end up on many PvPer's list of broken items messing up PvP as it gives any class invisibility just like the ambush ring did. But ... how does this make drains less annoying? All it does is show the Devs are still putting items into the game without thinking about how they will affect PvP.
wait and you will see the tome of something in new module and willl still say about drain:)
I'm sure, the Tome of Ascendance in Mod 11 will pretty quickly end up on many PvPer's list of broken items messing up PvP as it gives any class invisibility just like the ambush ring did. But ... how does this make drains less annoying? All it does is show the Devs are still putting items into the game without thinking about how they will affect PvP.
and shadowclad gives to remind you. ALSO i didnt say that drains are not annoying. I just want to see equal bans.
IF WE get as example stronghold glyphs then you will see here exist and other things could be unfair in match. IF enemy team has a hunter ranger very strong you get 2 overload glyphs and reduce the damage against that class. ANYone say something about that ? or and the opposite the ranger to deal more damage( ranger a random example).
WE are free to buff our stamina with gas spore and elven battle and maybe and other stuff. Anyone say something about that? STAMina drain could be a counter in this case but no it not even a counter to the stamina buff because your enemy can use a ward.
THE argument you will fight a lower guild hall is not even valid at least against the drain. BY that i mean if i use a mark FOR wizards boost my damage against to low enemy guild they are dead no mattter what they will do 15% MORE DAMAGE and maybe and more ( since exist buildings to boost those marks) .
WAtch so far i used examples from stronghold only.\
NOW if i use drain and my enemy do not have a ward and he is in stronghold 20 then i am sorry you have ofcourse the free will to not carry a ward with you but you cant be hitler to me and command me to not use drain. ITS my free will too to use it.
STamina DRains yes ofcourse i will not disagree make the enemy to not moving but here is the thing and control make the enemy to not able to move both mechanisms are part of the game but the hate is only against the drain.
THE AP drain drains what poeple hate that we call daily spamming. WHAT is happening here? HATE for the drain ban drain and nerf shocking:).
INVESTments now ok someone got a legendary mount that can do 3 things in the same time ( lions) .Yes ofcourse they have a cooldown of 60 seconds but if all team have it there is no cooldown. THEY prevent enemy to get killed casting at the last moment a blue shield. GOOD for you you invested 5m? 10m? 15m? use it i dont care anymore.
BUT what about guild investments ? Maybe my guildy thought yes i will farm pvp till my eyes bleeding to help our stronghold to improve so i can use the stamina drain-ap drain and after this i will keep farming currency to donate to coffer. AND now they fixed the bug with unlmiited glyphs in the inventory from stronghold that player maybe will even run out of drains. BUT THE guy with the lion always will have that benefit after you give the millions you have it forever.
SKILL: drain an enemy is not skill. I dont disagree a drain has nothing to do with a build. BUT lets take a look if i cast my lion what connection has the prone that does with my build ? NO COnnection at all an extra prone from nowhere. OR breaking control with oghma is that skill? syphon away 18% of enemy damage and increase mine is it skill? ( feytouched). ARTIFACT PUSHing enemies is it skill?
BUG annointed army that is the most hilarious and MOST USED FROM PVP PLAYERS knowing is bugged but yes drains are not skill and gamebreaking.
SO play the game as it is have fun and stop accuse enemies when actually you are also part of the many problems using the above.
I will make this one last attempt at reason with you and move on. The things my guild bans, for instance, are class breaking or mechanics breaking. For example a ring of ambush gives you, freely, the mechanic of a TR. This should never happen in the same way that you should never get a free GF shield if you're a CW or GWF. The ring of vision gives you the ability to force a TR out of their defensive mechanism, this should never happen in the same way there should be no ring that causes GF's to drop their block. These things NEGATE mechanics of the game. Your class is made superfluous by certain pieces of gear. Drains NEGATE your opponents ability to dodge, block, sprint, shadowstep, or teleport. Simply put that means NO defensive mechanism, you leave your opponent unable to do anything but flail their weapon at you, but not even effectively because you can take away their daily also which NEGATES yet another in game mechanic. If you have no access to wards it doesn't simply knock you to the ground for not dodging (lion can be dodged, blocked, etc) it makes you a beating dummy like the ones in the ToB. This is why, these pieces of gear are generally hated. They make the game stupid plainly put. Not just offer a benefit but literally negate classes and reduce your enemy to a flailing dummy for the taking.
You've been defending drains for quite some time. You obviously feel they should be allowed "if" all the other OP items should be allowed. We. Get. It.
Now, on the other hand, the same way you have the freedom to use those drains and object to lions (because that's your opinion) we, most of the PVP community, have stated we hate the idea of drains. We are also entitled to that opinion. We can argue back and forth about how OP a lion, which gives you loads of benefits, is vs. a drain, which basically negates any opponent and makes pugs completely unable to do anything, who are without wards but at the end of the day, you have no intention of changing your mind.
So, the lay of the land is that since the drains are Highly disliked by the many, those that use them must be prepared to suffer their distaste. If you want to complain at someone or not offer GG to someone for using a Lion you are more than welcome to. It's your prerogative. It is our (collectively) prerogative to hunt down drain users in PVP and show them how we feel about them.
Making posts like this does not change anything for anyone on either side of this non-debate. You have your opinion, we have ours, we'll see you in domination.
Thanks.
IS the same community which is happy and have no problem to use a bug?( annointed army).
You mean every DC in the game from every guild everywhere? Yes.
The thing you will refuse to see bro, is the difference between negating and buffing/benefitting. If you negate a class mechanic or game mechanic you take away from the other players their ability to perform at their class to the best of their ability/gear. If you buff yourself or your team (i.e. slayer wards, mount abilities, dailies that overperform) you have not detracted from the other team being able to perform, you may have the advantage (which is all you're concerned about) but you haven't stopped them from moving, fighting, dodging, stealthing, running, and generally doing all the madness that players/pugs do in PVP.
I freely admit, and have, that gear is a HUGE issue in PVP, I've written about this multiple times. Gear includes things like lion mounts, access to slayer wards but it also includes fully refined artifact weapons and artifact 3 piece sets. Really strong artifacts like Oghma's and rank 12 enchants. One place I can't go is the feytouched and negation. They are literally WAI as stated by the devs who are now buffing other enchants to make them as useful. Literally you're the only person I've ever heard complain about that. Interesting.
However, there is a difference in overpowering your opponent through gear than making them simply unable to do anything. Despite having tried to inform you of the difference multiple times I feel I haven't been able to make you see it, so I can only assume that your subjective glasses and mine will differ here. Take note however, most everyone in PVP agrees to this end and acts accordingly.
Thanks.
IF YOU NEGate a class mechanic? THAT you do since the elven battle rework. do you wear elven? yes you wear even the whole party in a premade party ? what does the elven battle on live ? negate chill stacks incorectly.
and shadowclad gives to remind you. ALSO i didnt say that drains are not annoying. I just want to see equal bans.
None of these things are banned. Shadowclad, ambush rings, drains all seem to be working as intended by the developers right now and you are free to use them all. But that doesn't mean that other people will like it when you do ...
Some guilds may take it upon themselves to ban certain things that their leaders believe are exploits or things that do not represent they character of the guild. That hardly makes it a universal ban and each guild is free to do as they wish there. I can say I have seen no shortage of PvP guild members use items I know their guild has "banned" at one time or another so you should always be skeptical when someone says something is "banned" in PvP. So use whatever you want in PvP ... but if you choose to use something people don't like don't be surprised when people get annoyed with you.
IF WE get as example stronghold glyphs then you will see here exist and other things could be unfair in match. IF enemy team has a hunter ranger very strong you get 2 overload glyphs and reduce the damage against that class. ANYone say something about that ? or and the opposite the ranger to deal more damage( ranger a random example).
WE are free to buff our stamina with gas spore and elven battle and maybe and other stuff. Anyone say something about that? STAMina drain could be a counter in this case but no it not even a counter to the stamina buff because your enemy can use a ward.
THE argument you will fight a lower guild hall is not even valid at least against the drain. BY that i mean if i use a mark FOR wizards boost my damage against to low enemy guild they are dead no mattter what they will do 15% MORE DAMAGE and maybe and more ( since exist buildings to boost those marks) .
WAtch so far i used examples from stronghold only.\
NOW if i use drain and my enemy do not have a ward and he is in stronghold 20 then i am sorry you have ofcourse the free will to not carry a ward with you but you cant be hitler to me and command me to not use drain. ITS my free will too to use it.
STamina DRains yes ofcourse i will not disagree make the enemy to not moving but here is the thing and control make the enemy to not able to move both mechanisms are part of the game but the hate is only against the drain.
THE AP drain drains what poeple hate that we call daily spamming. WHAT is happening here? HATE for the drain ban drain and nerf shocking:).
INVESTments now ok someone got a legendary mount that can do 3 things in the same time ( lions) .Yes ofcourse they have a cooldown of 60 seconds but if all team have it there is no cooldown. THEY prevent enemy to get killed casting at the last moment a blue shield. GOOD for you you invested 5m? 10m? 15m? use it i dont care anymore.
BUT what about guild investments ? Maybe my guildy thought yes i will farm pvp till my eyes bleeding to help our stronghold to improve so i can use the stamina drain-ap drain and after this i will keep farming currency to donate to coffer. AND now they fixed the bug with unlmiited glyphs in the inventory from stronghold that player maybe will even run out of drains. BUT THE guy with the lion always will have that benefit after you give the millions you have it forever.
SKILL: drain an enemy is not skill. I dont disagree a drain has nothing to do with a build. BUT lets take a look if i cast my lion what connection has the prone that does with my build ? NO COnnection at all an extra prone from nowhere. OR breaking control with oghma is that skill? syphon away 18% of enemy damage and increase mine is it skill? ( feytouched). ARTIFACT PUSHing enemies is it skill?
BUG annointed army that is the most hilarious and MOST USED FROM PVP PLAYERS knowing is bugged but yes drains are not skill and gamebreaking.
SO play the game as it is have fun and stop accuse enemies when actually you are also part of the many problems using the above.
I will make this one last attempt at reason with you and move on. The things my guild bans, for instance, are class breaking or mechanics breaking. For example a ring of ambush gives you, freely, the mechanic of a TR. This should never happen in the same way that you should never get a free GF shield if you're a CW or GWF. The ring of vision gives you the ability to force a TR out of their defensive mechanism, this should never happen in the same way there should be no ring that causes GF's to drop their block. These things NEGATE mechanics of the game. Your class is made superfluous by certain pieces of gear. Drains NEGATE your opponents ability to dodge, block, sprint, shadowstep, or teleport. Simply put that means NO defensive mechanism, you leave your opponent unable to do anything but flail their weapon at you, but not even effectively because you can take away their daily also which NEGATES yet another in game mechanic. If you have no access to wards it doesn't simply knock you to the ground for not dodging (lion can be dodged, blocked, etc) it makes you a beating dummy like the ones in the ToB. This is why, these pieces of gear are generally hated. They make the game stupid plainly put. Not just offer a benefit but literally negate classes and reduce your enemy to a flailing dummy for the taking.
You've been defending drains for quite some time. You obviously feel they should be allowed "if" all the other OP items should be allowed. We. Get. It.
Now, on the other hand, the same way you have the freedom to use those drains and object to lions (because that's your opinion) we, most of the PVP community, have stated we hate the idea of drains. We are also entitled to that opinion. We can argue back and forth about how OP a lion, which gives you loads of benefits, is vs. a drain, which basically negates any opponent and makes pugs completely unable to do anything, who are without wards but at the end of the day, you have no intention of changing your mind.
So, the lay of the land is that since the drains are Highly disliked by the many, those that use them must be prepared to suffer their distaste. If you want to complain at someone or not offer GG to someone for using a Lion you are more than welcome to. It's your prerogative. It is our (collectively) prerogative to hunt down drain users in PVP and show them how we feel about them.
Making posts like this does not change anything for anyone on either side of this non-debate. You have your opinion, we have ours, we'll see you in domination.
Thanks.
IS the same community which is happy and have no problem to use a bug?( annointed army).
You mean every DC in the game from every guild everywhere? Yes.
The thing you will refuse to see bro, is the difference between negating and buffing/benefitting. If you negate a class mechanic or game mechanic you take away from the other players their ability to perform at their class to the best of their ability/gear. If you buff yourself or your team (i.e. slayer wards, mount abilities, dailies that overperform) you have not detracted from the other team being able to perform, you may have the advantage (which is all you're concerned about) but you haven't stopped them from moving, fighting, dodging, stealthing, running, and generally doing all the madness that players/pugs do in PVP.
I freely admit, and have, that gear is a HUGE issue in PVP, I've written about this multiple times. Gear includes things like lion mounts, access to slayer wards but it also includes fully refined artifact weapons and artifact 3 piece sets. Really strong artifacts like Oghma's and rank 12 enchants. One place I can't go is the feytouched and negation. They are literally WAI as stated by the devs who are now buffing other enchants to make them as useful. Literally you're the only person I've ever heard complain about that. Interesting.
However, there is a difference in overpowering your opponent through gear than making them simply unable to do anything. Despite having tried to inform you of the difference multiple times I feel I haven't been able to make you see it, so I can only assume that your subjective glasses and mine will differ here. Take note however, most everyone in PVP agrees to this end and acts accordingly.
Thanks.
IF YOU NEGate a class mechanic? THAT you do since the elven battle rework. do you wear elven? yes you wear even the whole party in a premade party ? what does the elven battle on live ? negate chill stacks incorectly.
Firstly only certain classes benefit the most from elven. I am only using one on my CW atm. I don't take full PMs in with elven because they don't all want to wear elven.
Elven does not negate chill stacks incorrectly, it negates them for CC purposes, the same way lifting your shield or going unstoppable or shadowslipping would. However the devs are changing it so that CWs will recoup their damage lost from chill stacks. The problem was in coding the chill stacks to be both CC and DPS. The devs have talked at length about this and so have we.
Also it doesn't negate their abilities to perform, it hampers their damage inadvertantly. Trust me friend, fight my oppressor with an elven on live and I'll laugh at your "cc resist" XD. However this is off topic. You asked about the vitriol surrounding the drains. We've told you, now you're just meandering through a concocted list in your head of what is broken and what is not.
I don't claim anything to be broken, just ridiculous. Drains are ridiculous. Stealth from rings is ridiculous. This is what the community has said with an overwhelming majority. You are an outspoken voice for those poor wretched souls who are so wrongly persecuted for using these items. You've said your peace, we've said ours, obviously we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Which means drain users and ring users will still be hated and hunted.
Thanks for your reply
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
It's up to the community to decide on that since Cryptic keeps on introducing broken mechanics and takes too long to balance it out. I'm only 1 person and I don't represent the entire community. We shall see what happens. I won't make a careless statement about "equal bans" but I would like a more balanced PVP as well.
I can safely state that while you can be part of the community and have a voice in it, I'm going to predict that you aren't going to have any authoritative powers over the decision the community makes due to your personal, character, reputation, credibility and attitude limitations so I hope you don't go into that thinking you have an army behind you and be disappointed if you do not get your way.
Whatever the decision is won't affect the current stance on drains though so in the meantime, I'm sure you know the drill based on what I previously posted
However, there is a difference in overpowering your opponent through gear than making them simply unable to do anything.
Sorry, but on this i have to agree with him too: AA doesn't just "over buff your team". It, literally, makes your team immortal because, as far as i tested it, it reduces the damage before it (the damage) enters into the "normal way to calculate" . That must end for good too as "Bubbledins" were broken OP in the days: Once it (the bubble) was up, you made enemy team unable to do a thing.
I didn't disagree with what you're saying, when you have AA on you, you're not going to die. I would also say, everyone here and everyone in the entire game is taking advantage of it in PVE and PVP atm sooo....
As far as immortality I believe the devs are looking at a work around for that as well. However, I don't run with DPS DC's very frequently who can spam AA every 10 seconds.
Long and short, none of this has anything to do with the OPs original statement. Drains = bad, whether anything else in the game is broken or not. Drains are bad even if everyone uses the most broken thing they can find. Drains are bad regardless of any other mechanism that is OP in the game.
People who use drains don't want a fight, they want a beating dummy. They want their opponent to stare at them wide eyed as the die helplessly to an item that has no ability to be dodged or countered if they don't already have wards.
That is the issue.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I was a regular pvp'er for my first year in NW. I played 1 -2 hours per day and enjoyed it a lot. Sure there were imbalances but if you knew what you were doing it was mostly skill v skill.
I stopped playing pvp just after the introduction of drains and wards as they are so patently unfair. A 'good' pvp match is one where you are challenged but also have the ability to effectively compete.
Drains/wards as well as invisibility rings have turned pvp into a ridiculous affair and as I predicted at the time, the pvp community has shrunk dramatically.
If Cryptic were to introduce an arena where overloads, rings, companions and mount powers didn't apply (and tenacity applied to piercing damage...) my guess is it would become the new 'go-to' arena and the pvp community would grow again.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Malebot here all! you know me if you pvp, DRAINS are the only thing that bring balance to people who lets seee.... DO NOT HAVE(I HAVE NONE OF THESE)
-have 32000k more hp - have 8k power - have 20 million a/d mounts(with mount powers)and then another bonus after mount power with insignia bonuses - -IF YOUr a sw or cw how can u kill a gaurdian fighter u ask thats fully geared...(or 3k+ with boons) u NEED drains or else NO MATTER WHAT U DO you will get 3 button rotated(devs wont balance so we have too ourselfs) - you want drains gone then TAKE GUILD BOONS/MOUNT POWER/STATS - because they make up alot more imbalance and pissed off people then a simple drain that the DEVS actually changed to 2% instead of 5% waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
I'm just tired of all the kill jacking CW waiting for me to do the work and come in with a disintegrate for the steal. My only complaint with pvp is my own teammates....
I'm guilty of this exact thing, sorry buddy. I tend to fire all of my powers at anything that comes in range, or I die horribly. There was a match last night between two GFs that I was watching while taking a node, and the GF from the other team paused their duel for a moment to rip my face off and then proceeded to sit on my dying body. I tried to fight back of course, but he was well geared and I am very squishy even in my PVP gear. So now I don't even observe from afar, if I'm in range they're getting zapped and I will likely be rolled for it, but that's alright with me. Got to get knocked down in order to stand up again anyway.
Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited February 2017
AND i want to add how normal some play lately with composition 2 annointed army and a gf with permanent "wai" immunities to kill poeple:). 2 GF 2 CW troll compositions are nothing compare to this. BUT dont worry we pretend those are "wai" and we fighting back.
AND i want to add how normal some play lately with composition 2 annointed army and a gf with permanent "wai" immunities to kill poeple:). 2 GF 2 CW troll compositions are nothing compare to this. BUT dont worry we pretend those are "wai" and we fighting back.
Like it has been stated before, you are free to use whatever bugged items you want just remember that the 'GG' rule is not working as intended either. Cryptic didn't program their PVP matches to automatically stop whenever someone types a word on say chat. Cryptic intended PVP matches to keep going on until the match ends. This means players are allowed and encourage to attack enemies throughout the duration of the match. That is how Cryptic intended PVP matches to be.
AND i want to add how normal some play lately with composition 2 annointed army and a gf with permanent "wai" immunities to kill poeple:). 2 GF 2 CW troll compositions are nothing compare to this. BUT dont worry we pretend those are "wai" and we fighting back.
AA Immunity is obviously not "WAI" ... the developers are already planning to nerf AA by making each charge of it absorb a maximum of 20% of the target's hit points. Of course, doing more than 20% of a geared "BiS" PvPer's hit points in a single hit to get past the AA absorption may still be a challenge for many characters ...
and shadowclad gives to remind you. ALSO i didnt say that drains are not annoying. I just want to see equal bans.
None of these things are banned. Shadowclad, ambush rings, drains all seem to be working as intended by the developers right now and you are free to use them all. But that doesn't mean that other people will like it when you do ...
Some guilds may take it upon themselves to ban certain things that their leaders believe are exploits or things that do not represent they character of the guild. That hardly makes it a universal ban and each guild is free to do as they wish there. I can say I have seen no shortage of PvP guild members use items I know their guild has "banned" at one time or another so you should always be skeptical when someone says something is "banned" in PvP. So use whatever you want in PvP ... but if you choose to use something people don't like don't be surprised when people get annoyed with you.
Let's be realistic... having the BiS PvP guilds decide that any team that uses an item they don't like to get any points IS a universal ban.
Firstly, nothing but whining in this thread. Should be closed.
Secondly, I have commented in the past, PvP should not allow any bonus other than what is added to the character sheet tab. Yeah that means drains and such, oh well, have your character drop a pair. Disable the companion/mount tabs. Open world PvP is a major fail and if that was an attempt to give us 'more maps', what a shotty (add the i) failure.
How do we expect those fighting upstream to compete with BiS or near it? If it was up to me, I would have a 3300+ iL queue. Anyone below that is welcome to queue/sample the tougher players. Anyone wanting to sample the lower group will have to slot accordingly.
As it currently stands, I don't care who uses what. It is what it is. Put together a comp to meet the demand and be on MIC.
Firstly, nothing but whining in this thread. Should be closed.
Secondly, I have commented in the past, PvP should not allow any bonus other than what is added to the character sheet tab. Yeah that means drains and such, oh well, have your character drop a pair. Disable the companion/mount tabs. Open world PvP is a major fail and if that was an attempt to give us 'more maps', what a shotty (add the i) failure.
How do we expect those fighting upstream to compete with BiS or near it? If it was up to me, I would have a 3300+ iL queue. Anyone below that is welcome to queue/sample the tougher players. Anyone wanting to sample the lower group will have to slot accordingly.
As it currently stands, I don't care who uses what. It is what it is. Put together a comp to meet the demand and be on MIC.
AND i want to add how normal some play lately with composition 2 annointed army and a gf with permanent "wai" immunities to kill poeple:). 2 GF 2 CW troll compositions are nothing compare to this. BUT dont worry we pretend those are "wai" and we fighting back.
Like it has been stated before, you are free to use whatever bugged items you want just remember that the 'GG' rule is not working as intended either. Cryptic didn't program their PVP matches to automatically stop whenever someone types a word on say chat. Cryptic intended PVP matches to keep going on until the match ends. This means players are allowed and encourage to attack enemies throughout the duration of the match. That is how Cryptic intended PVP matches to be.
OH the gg. When my enemy has no chance and even die from a boon proc i am the first one i stop. IF he want to go on and fight and i will continue because he want to fight even if he cant do it. WHEN you respect yourself you are the first you stop unlike: when bis players asking undergear to say gg that is very funny.
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited March 2017
It's ego stroking.... pvp is nothing nut ego stroking... bis vs non bis... Guild boon vs non guild boon... all ego stroking to make someone feel amazing while others feel useless...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Bingo. It's a freakin' joke and don't, for one minute, believe anyone that comes here telling you otherwise.
This goes right back to what I say about the hypocrisy of gaming sociopaths. No matter what people say here, no matter their claims for the betterment of PvP, the lowest common denominator always shows its face in game.
Without developers that are invested in cultivating a proper PvP environment, it's chaos and kiddos.
I agree with your last statement, that "without developers that are invested in cultivating a proper PVP environment it's chaos and kiddos"... which is one of the reasons people run PMs. So their team is not chaotic and they don't have to deal with Kiddos.
Interestingly, we are all here discussing PVP talking about how bad matches are and how things should improve so that BIS players fought BIS players and Pugs fought similar IL pugs and we all agree on that. However, when a solution is offered like... doing exactly that and trying to form Premades to fight each other, it gets dismissed out of hand and the insults begin flying again. This goes right back to what I say about people who sling names, they are upset that things don't go in their favor but immediately back down when asked for a fair fight.
I.E. When asked for PMvsPM of equal level BIS toons which will keep those BIS players occupied and hopefully out of some pug matches, Solo Qers whine and run away from the real fight and resort to name calling.
@demonmonger Says it's all ego stroking, interestingly I come on here and it's the same. People turn up here to complain about the state of the game and place all the blame on BIS players and Premades and console each other. They don't come here to try and solve the issue, nor do they come here to try and form a community. If you can't PVP in game... might as well PVP in the forums?
The hypocrisy is noted. On one hand ask premading BIS players to stop fighting pugs, then turning down the opportunity for a fair fight and further hurling insults. This is the Toxicity that I talk about. It's just anger and vitriol, mixed with frustration. It's not an answer, nor is it objective.
You guys want a PVP community? Form one, ask for groups, ask for equal IL premades, talk with other guilds and make GG groups and Domi groups. I try and all I'm met with is resistance, name calling, and excuses. So, until that changes, or until the Devs step in.. this is, and will be, the face of PVP.
Addendum: If you want things to change, be a catalyst. Most importantly it's better to use the carrot rather than the stick. Honey attracts more bees and all the other cliches are true. If you want to cap nodes it's best if you don't say things like "GG hamsterhole" and then expect to be treated well. If you want to solve BIS or Premade problems calling everyone who is BIS or who Premades names will NOT solve issues. It's human nature to say.. "oh you wanna call names now? Fine... we'll see what happens next".
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
OH the gg. When my enemy has no chance and even die from a boon proc i am the first one i stop. IF he want to go on and fight and i will continue because he want to fight even if he cant do it. WHEN you respect yourself you are the first you stop unlike: when bis players asking undergear to say gg that is very funny.
That was not really my point.
My point is, all this backlash against the use of rings and drains is just from the PVP community. You are free to use them because you argued 'they are working as intended'. You will not be banned, your account will not be revoked, nobody will sue you.
All I'm saying this, the 'GG rule' is a custom practice created by this same PVP community. The majority of the people (who include the best players and relevant PVP guilds in the game) decided on a given set of practices and bans. If you are going to go against these agreed upon principles, then you cannot expect these agreed upon benefits including a 'GG'. Remember, calling GG is not working as intended. Cryptic intended and allowed players to keep killing players on the opposite team while the match is going on.
OH the gg. When my enemy has no chance and even die from a boon proc i am the first one i stop. IF he want to go on and fight and i will continue because he want to fight even if he cant do it. WHEN you respect yourself you are the first you stop unlike: when bis players asking undergear to say gg that is very funny.
That was not really my point.
My point is, all this backlash against the use of rings and drains is just from the PVP community. You are free to use them because you argued 'they are working as intended'. You will not be banned, your account will not be revoked, nobody will sue you.
All I'm saying this, the 'GG rule' is a custom practice created by this same PVP community. The majority of the people (who include the best players and relevant PVP guilds in the game) decided on a given set of practices and bans. If you are going to go against these agreed upon principles, then you cannot expect these agreed upon benefits including a 'GG'. Remember, calling GG is not working as intended. Cryptic intended and allowed players to keep killing players on the opposite team while the match is going on.
Cryptic also changed the rules to TRY to end the pug-stomping by removing any rewards from a match where one team didn't score any points.
I don't think that's entirely true. Most players tend to agree that the best matches are those that are the most challenging, also the Solo Queue event is very popular, which is the same principle.
PMvPM would be a lot easier to do if the pvp community was larger, which it won't be until Cryptic address all the above mentioned bs.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I agree with you.
Many items create unfair advantages and unfortunately most F2P games are like that.
People keep saying how using drains is skilless but how about a BiS HR using lion + rod which almost always guarantees you to die in 1 rotation? I personally don't use drains but people should really stop being hypocrites and hate on drains when they themselves are using other P2W items.
Well said. Drains are bad, but it doesn't stop there applying the reasoning of some. This for me is part of a larger issue anyway. Difference between the haves and havenots is just too big atm. We need way lower gear requirements for "BIS" PVP to make skill that much more important.
Let's face the truth - except few players there is literally no one who really wants equal matches.
Otherwise people would ask for sync'd premades.
Silence and/or excuses are big when people ask for PMvsPM because slaugthering pugs is more easy and the safe route to boost k/d.
This is why although I would love to see a 5v5 only queue, I don't think apart from 1-2 guilds, people will use it. I actually think it will be used for inhouses a lot more. I know enough about the community to realize that certain players from guilds will not willingly fight if they have a comp disadvantage or one of their players isn't fully up to par. Just 2 days ago, I have suggested 2 guilds compete with one another and who would've guessed, one backed off.
I don't think that's entirely true. Most players tend to agree that the best matches are those that are the most challenging
Some players tend to go for solo queues because no egos are hurt. There is always going to be bragging rights involved in premade vs premade matches whether people are gracious superficially after the match on public chat channels like 'pmvspm'. I can personally vouch that the conversation going on in alliance chat is different and less polite.
Comments
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Some guilds may take it upon themselves to ban certain things that their leaders believe are exploits or things that do not represent they character of the guild. That hardly makes it a universal ban and each guild is free to do as they wish there. I can say I have seen no shortage of PvP guild members use items I know their guild has "banned" at one time or another so you should always be skeptical when someone says something is "banned" in PvP. So use whatever you want in PvP ... but if you choose to use something people don't like don't be surprised when people get annoyed with you.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Elven does not negate chill stacks incorrectly, it negates them for CC purposes, the same way lifting your shield or going unstoppable or shadowslipping would. However the devs are changing it so that CWs will recoup their damage lost from chill stacks. The problem was in coding the chill stacks to be both CC and DPS. The devs have talked at length about this and so have we.
Also it doesn't negate their abilities to perform, it hampers their damage inadvertantly. Trust me friend, fight my oppressor with an elven on live and I'll laugh at your "cc resist" XD. However this is off topic. You asked about the vitriol surrounding the drains. We've told you, now you're just meandering through a concocted list in your head of what is broken and what is not.
I don't claim anything to be broken, just ridiculous. Drains are ridiculous. Stealth from rings is ridiculous. This is what the community has said with an overwhelming majority. You are an outspoken voice for those poor wretched souls who are so wrongly persecuted for using these items. You've said your peace, we've said ours, obviously we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Which means drain users and ring users will still be hated and hunted.
Thanks for your reply
I can safely state that while you can be part of the community and have a voice in it, I'm going to predict that you aren't going to have any authoritative powers over the decision the community makes due to your personal, character, reputation, credibility and attitude limitations so I hope you don't go into that thinking you have an army behind you and be disappointed if you do not get your way.
Whatever the decision is won't affect the current stance on drains though so in the meantime, I'm sure you know the drill based on what I previously posted
As far as immortality I believe the devs are looking at a work around for that as well. However, I don't run with DPS DC's very frequently who can spam AA every 10 seconds.
Long and short, none of this has anything to do with the OPs original statement. Drains = bad, whether anything else in the game is broken or not. Drains are bad even if everyone uses the most broken thing they can find. Drains are bad regardless of any other mechanism that is OP in the game.
People who use drains don't want a fight, they want a beating dummy. They want their opponent to stare at them wide eyed as the die helplessly to an item that has no ability to be dodged or countered if they don't already have wards.
That is the issue.
I stopped playing pvp just after the introduction of drains and wards as they are so patently unfair. A 'good' pvp match is one where you are challenged but also have the ability to effectively compete.
Drains/wards as well as invisibility rings have turned pvp into a ridiculous affair and as I predicted at the time, the pvp community has shrunk dramatically.
If Cryptic were to introduce an arena where overloads, rings, companions and mount powers didn't apply (and tenacity applied to piercing damage...) my guess is it would become the new 'go-to' arena and the pvp community would grow again.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
DO NOT HAVE(I HAVE NONE OF THESE)
-have 32000k more hp
- have 8k power
- have 20 million a/d mounts(with mount powers)and then another bonus after mount power with insignia bonuses
- -IF YOUr a sw or cw how can u kill a gaurdian fighter u ask thats fully geared...(or 3k+ with boons) u NEED drains or else NO MATTER WHAT U DO you will get 3 button rotated(devs wont balance so we have too ourselfs)
- you want drains gone then TAKE GUILD BOONS/MOUNT POWER/STATS
- because they make up alot more imbalance and pissed off people then a simple drain that the DEVS actually changed to 2% instead of 5% waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
PS4 characters:
Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
Ginger Christ needs no introductions
BUT dont worry we pretend those are "wai" and we fighting back.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Character: Vendetta
Secondly, I have commented in the past, PvP should not allow any bonus other than what is added to the character sheet tab. Yeah that means drains and such, oh well, have your character drop a pair. Disable the companion/mount tabs. Open world PvP is a major fail and if that was an attempt to give us 'more maps', what a shotty (add the i) failure.
How do we expect those fighting upstream to compete with BiS or near it? If it was up to me, I would have a 3300+ iL queue. Anyone below that is welcome to queue/sample the tougher players. Anyone wanting to sample the lower group will have to slot accordingly.
As it currently stands, I don't care who uses what. It is what it is. Put together a comp to meet the demand and be on MIC.
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
Interestingly, we are all here discussing PVP talking about how bad matches are and how things should improve so that BIS players fought BIS players and Pugs fought similar IL pugs and we all agree on that. However, when a solution is offered like... doing exactly that and trying to form Premades to fight each other, it gets dismissed out of hand and the insults begin flying again. This goes right back to what I say about people who sling names, they are upset that things don't go in their favor but immediately back down when asked for a fair fight.
I.E. When asked for PMvsPM of equal level BIS toons which will keep those BIS players occupied and hopefully out of some pug matches, Solo Qers whine and run away from the real fight and resort to name calling.
@demonmonger Says it's all ego stroking, interestingly I come on here and it's the same. People turn up here to complain about the state of the game and place all the blame on BIS players and Premades and console each other. They don't come here to try and solve the issue, nor do they come here to try and form a community. If you can't PVP in game... might as well PVP in the forums?
The hypocrisy is noted. On one hand ask premading BIS players to stop fighting pugs, then turning down the opportunity for a fair fight and further hurling insults. This is the Toxicity that I talk about. It's just anger and vitriol, mixed with frustration. It's not an answer, nor is it objective.
You guys want a PVP community? Form one, ask for groups, ask for equal IL premades, talk with other guilds and make GG groups and Domi groups. I try and all I'm met with is resistance, name calling, and excuses. So, until that changes, or until the Devs step in.. this is, and will be, the face of PVP.
Addendum: If you want things to change, be a catalyst. Most importantly it's better to use the carrot rather than the stick. Honey attracts more bees and all the other cliches are true. If you want to cap nodes it's best if you don't say things like "GG hamsterhole" and then expect to be treated well. If you want to solve BIS or Premade problems calling everyone who is BIS or who Premades names will NOT solve issues. It's human nature to say.. "oh you wanna call names now? Fine... we'll see what happens next".
My point is, all this backlash against the use of rings and drains is just from the PVP community. You are free to use them because you argued 'they are working as intended'. You will not be banned, your account will not be revoked, nobody will sue you.
All I'm saying this, the 'GG rule' is a custom practice created by this same PVP community. The majority of the people (who include the best players and relevant PVP guilds in the game) decided on a given set of practices and bans. If you are going to go against these agreed upon principles, then you cannot expect these agreed upon benefits including a 'GG'. Remember, calling GG is not working as intended. Cryptic intended and allowed players to keep killing players on the opposite team while the match is going on.
PMvPM would be a lot easier to do if the pvp community was larger, which it won't be until Cryptic address all the above mentioned bs.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Well said. Drains are bad, but it doesn't stop there applying the reasoning of some. This for me is part of a larger issue anyway. Difference between the haves and havenots is just too big atm. We need way lower gear requirements for "BIS" PVP to make skill that much more important.