Wheel of elements vs sigil of the devoted for HB SW with vorpal enchantment and owlbear.

jaime4312

Okay, so I saw @fernuu stating that wheel of elements is horrible for a hb sw as it only makes up for 2% - 4% of total dps but he didn't give a reason why, is it possible to get an answer from him or any other good warlocks out there? Why would the wheel of elements underperfom so horribly for a hb sw? Is the dc sigil the best option then? I really don't like the concept of depending on spamming daylies to deal some dps. Is it possible if anyone on pc could test the difference between those 2 in terms of damage boosting with ATC? @kolatmaster @etelgrin @kallephi#0836 @tom#6998 Maybe @thefabricant and/or @michela123 could help me out with this?

Or pehaps the way things are is dc sigil > trash and wheel > bosses?

Thanks in advance!

kallephi

I'm kinda dead on my SW, haven't played on her for like 2 months. I played on her 1 day for edemo runs to use my keys and that's it.
But what I can tell you is, you need Tyrannical Threat up for trash, so you will probably be better with sigil of the devoted. Not that you NEED, but you are losing a lot of dps and potential if you go wheel all the time.

For bosses, wheel is clearly better than 2M damage from a single daily in my opinion.

Wheel is 2-4% damage for Fernu because he uses it only on bosses. There's no reason for a HB Fury SW to use Wheel all the time.
Wheel is something around 7-9% of my damage on my dps GF, but I use it all the time.
Maybe if he used it all times wheel would be 6% of his damage even though his damage would be lower than the damage using TT.
Maybe if owlbear + PoP gets fixed wheel damage would be higher.

I'd stick with sigil of the devoted for trash and use wheel on bosses.

BUT, I've never used a wheel on my SW so I can't really tell you for sure.
@tom#6998 can give you a more accurate answer.

darthbane13

I second the OP's question, I'm in a similar state atm and running the wheel. I always wondered if the extra daily would be worth the loss of the almost 50% uptime on the bonus 30% dmg from the wheel. Especially since as a HB fury lock, AP gain tends to be pretty awesome.

jaime4312

kallephi#0836 said:

I'm kinda dead on my SW, haven't played on her for like 2 months. I played on her 1 day for edemo runs to use my keys and that's it.
But what I can tell you is, you need Tyrannical Threat up for trash, so you will probably be better with sigil of the devoted. Not that you NEED, but you are losing a lot of dps and potential if you go wheel all the time.

For bosses, wheel is clearly better than 2M damage from a single daily in my opinion.

Wheel is 2-4% damage for Fernu because he uses it only on bosses. There's no reason for a HB Fury SW to use Wheel all the time.
Wheel is something around 7-9% of my damage on my dps GF, but I use it all the time.
Maybe if he used it all times wheel would be 6% of his damage even though his damage would be lower than the damage using TT.
Maybe if owlbear + PoP gets fixed wheel damage would be higher.

I'd stick with sigil of the devoted for trash and use wheel on bosses.

BUT, I've never used a wheel on my SW so I can't really tell you for sure.
@tom#6998 can give you a more accurate answer.

@kallephi#0836 thank you very much for your answer, I appreciate your feedback. My guess was right then I guess, wheel > bosses and dc sigil > trash. I suppose fbi wouldn't be an exception, correct? Tc would provide some serious dps boost as the enemies are hp sponges.

One of the reasons I replaced the dc sigil and never bothered getting it back (it is now after reading your answer though) is because switching main artifacts and 1 encounter power before and after every boss fight that is not fbi would be a real pita.

I feel curious, even though it's off topic, how did you manage to balance out your arp after getting relic gear and orcus set for your sw? Maybe you get to 60% with special gear from fire archon? I want to have my base ri at 60% so I can switch mounts bonuses and stuff on my bonding companion (con artist) without losing it. I'm also concerned about my recovery, it will be around 1,6k so that's awfully low, my KF cooldown would be like 11,3 secs or so and that's horrible.

kallephi

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

I'm kinda dead on my SW, haven't played on her for like 2 months. I played on her 1 day for edemo runs to use my keys and that's it.
But what I can tell you is, you need Tyrannical Threat up for trash, so you will probably be better with sigil of the devoted. Not that you NEED, but you are losing a lot of dps and potential if you go wheel all the time.

For bosses, wheel is clearly better than 2M damage from a single daily in my opinion.

Wheel is 2-4% damage for Fernu because he uses it only on bosses. There's no reason for a HB Fury SW to use Wheel all the time.
Wheel is something around 7-9% of my damage on my dps GF, but I use it all the time.
Maybe if he used it all times wheel would be 6% of his damage even though his damage would be lower than the damage using TT.
Maybe if owlbear + PoP gets fixed wheel damage would be higher.

I'd stick with sigil of the devoted for trash and use wheel on bosses.

BUT, I've never used a wheel on my SW so I can't really tell you for sure.
@tom#6998 can give you a more accurate answer.

@kallephi#0836 thank you very much for your answer, I appreciate your feedback. My guess was right then I guess, wheel > bosses and dc sigil > trash. I suppose fbi wouldn't be an exception, correct? Tc would provide some serious dps boost as the enemies are hp sponges.

One of the reasons I replaced the dc sigil and never bothered getting it back (it is now after reading your answer though) is because switching main artifacts and 1 encounter power before and after every boss fight that is not fbi would be a real pita.

I feel curious, even though it's off topic, how did you manage to balance out your arp after getting relic gear and orcus set for your sw? Maybe you get to 60% with special gear from fire archon? I want to have my base ri at 60% so I can switch mounts bonuses and stuff on my bonding companion (con artist) without losing it. I'm also concerned about my recovery, it will be around 1,6k so that's awfully low, my KF cooldown would be like 11,3 secs or so and that's horrible.

Ok, so I talked to a friend who plays his SW everyday (and I consider him better than me). He uses sigil for trash and wheel for bosses, but he said wheel is not that good for SW because the wheel doesn't proc from every SW hit. That's the answer then.

For arpen I follow a rule on every toon. I ignore the ability (str, dex, etc) that gives me arpen, probably getting 5 or 7% resistance ignored from the stat because it will be 15-17 since it's probably one of your secondary stats, plus 3% from Dread Ring boon, and a legendary striker companion with 1,150 arpen (mine has 1,153), plus 1,000 from lantern, 342 from shirt + pants, 225 from buffs (I don't remember what buffs =p) and 400 from a boon which I don't recall at the moment....all this for a total of 1,967 arpen.
Using 3 bondings rank 12, a single loyal avenger piece, I get to 6,000-6,200 arpen always. I use the other two companion item slots for brutality and dod.
Next mod I'll farm brutality +5 and a fierce ring of the companion +4

tom

well im a fan of both. I have the Sigl slotted for Trash mobs and at boss fights i switch in the Wheel from my inventory. That way u have the best of both worlds.

kolatmaster

tom#6998 said:

well im a fan of both. I have the Sigl slotted for Trash mobs and at boss fights i switch in the Wheel from my inventory. That way u have the best of both worlds.

sledneck220

So my question to all is:
What happens when you don't get the fire every time from the wheel? I know in CN it's impossible to "always" get the wheel unless it's a boss fight and even then i've had it glitch out and give me wind or earth. I know if you pop it near a wall you get whatever element gets put into the wall.
FBI I've found it fairly easy to keep fire up all the time but it's something you have to watch constantly.
I've especially found issues with it when the other 2 DPS in your group are using it. Seems like you always end up getting one of the scrub elements and then have to wait until you can pop your wheel. In that mean time, you could have used 2 or 3 dailies using the DC....
I'm getting a mythic sigil this 2xRP to do some testing so "wheel" see what comes of it.
Unless feeders go up to 200k again, at that point i'm selling but i doubt they go over 100k.

niadan

Jump forward and cast it so you always land on fire. Works everytime.

kallephi

niadan said:

Jump forward and cast it so you always land on fire. Works everytime.

That

jaime4312

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

I'm kinda dead on my SW, haven't played on her for like 2 months. I played on her 1 day for edemo runs to use my keys and that's it.
But what I can tell you is, you need Tyrannical Threat up for trash, so you will probably be better with sigil of the devoted. Not that you NEED, but you are losing a lot of dps and potential if you go wheel all the time.

For bosses, wheel is clearly better than 2M damage from a single daily in my opinion.

Wheel is 2-4% damage for Fernu because he uses it only on bosses. There's no reason for a HB Fury SW to use Wheel all the time.
Wheel is something around 7-9% of my damage on my dps GF, but I use it all the time.
Maybe if he used it all times wheel would be 6% of his damage even though his damage would be lower than the damage using TT.
Maybe if owlbear + PoP gets fixed wheel damage would be higher.

I'd stick with sigil of the devoted for trash and use wheel on bosses.

BUT, I've never used a wheel on my SW so I can't really tell you for sure.
@tom#6998 can give you a more accurate answer.

@kallephi#0836 thank you very much for your answer, I appreciate your feedback. My guess was right then I guess, wheel > bosses and dc sigil > trash. I suppose fbi wouldn't be an exception, correct? Tc would provide some serious dps boost as the enemies are hp sponges.

One of the reasons I replaced the dc sigil and never bothered getting it back (it is now after reading your answer though) is because switching main artifacts and 1 encounter power before and after every boss fight that is not fbi would be a real pita.

I feel curious, even though it's off topic, how did you manage to balance out your arp after getting relic gear and orcus set for your sw? Maybe you get to 60% with special gear from fire archon? I want to have my base ri at 60% so I can switch mounts bonuses and stuff on my bonding companion (con artist) without losing it. I'm also concerned about my recovery, it will be around 1,6k so that's awfully low, my KF cooldown would be like 11,3 secs or so and that's horrible.

Ok, so I talked to a friend who plays his SW everyday (and I consider him better than me). He uses sigil for trash and wheel for bosses, but he said wheel is not that good for SW because the wheel doesn't proc from every SW hit. That's the answer then.

For arpen I follow a rule on every toon. I ignore the ability (str, dex, etc) that gives me arpen, probably getting 5 or 7% resistance ignored from the stat because it will be 15-17 since it's probably one of your secondary stats, plus 3% from Dread Ring boon, and a legendary striker companion with 1,150 arpen (mine has 1,153), plus 1,000 from lantern, 342 from shirt + pants, 225 from buffs (I don't remember what buffs =p) and 400 from a boon which I don't recall at the moment....all this for a total of 1,967 arpen.
Using 3 bondings rank 12, a single loyal avenger piece, I get to 6,000-6,200 arpen always. I use the other two companion item slots for brutality and dod.
Next mod I'll farm brutality +5 and a fierce ring of the companion +4

@kallephi#0836 thanks for your answer. We don't have loyal avenger gear on console though, any suggestions? I guess I will have to rank 1 or 2 dark enchantments to 12, holy cow that will be expensive. I really wanted to have 60% base ri but seeing how much arp I will lose when switching to orcus set and relic gear (have vivified boots already but keep getting the recovery variants for the rest in fbi) I think I have no choice but to reply on my bonding companion to get to the cap. I also took armour pen boons whenever possible.

Companion gear looks promising by the way, can't wait to see adorable bites or whatever is called getting its value drecreased to hilarious ammounts of ad, from 8 million ad each to like 5k ad each, oh yeah!

You'll farm brutality for your toon rather than your companion, right?

kallephi

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

I'm kinda dead on my SW, haven't played on her for like 2 months. I played on her 1 day for edemo runs to use my keys and that's it.
But what I can tell you is, you need Tyrannical Threat up for trash, so you will probably be better with sigil of the devoted. Not that you NEED, but you are losing a lot of dps and potential if you go wheel all the time.

For bosses, wheel is clearly better than 2M damage from a single daily in my opinion.

Wheel is 2-4% damage for Fernu because he uses it only on bosses. There's no reason for a HB Fury SW to use Wheel all the time.
Wheel is something around 7-9% of my damage on my dps GF, but I use it all the time.
Maybe if he used it all times wheel would be 6% of his damage even though his damage would be lower than the damage using TT.
Maybe if owlbear + PoP gets fixed wheel damage would be higher.

I'd stick with sigil of the devoted for trash and use wheel on bosses.

BUT, I've never used a wheel on my SW so I can't really tell you for sure.
@tom#6998 can give you a more accurate answer.

@kallephi#0836 thank you very much for your answer, I appreciate your feedback. My guess was right then I guess, wheel > bosses and dc sigil > trash. I suppose fbi wouldn't be an exception, correct? Tc would provide some serious dps boost as the enemies are hp sponges.

One of the reasons I replaced the dc sigil and never bothered getting it back (it is now after reading your answer though) is because switching main artifacts and 1 encounter power before and after every boss fight that is not fbi would be a real pita.

I feel curious, even though it's off topic, how did you manage to balance out your arp after getting relic gear and orcus set for your sw? Maybe you get to 60% with special gear from fire archon? I want to have my base ri at 60% so I can switch mounts bonuses and stuff on my bonding companion (con artist) without losing it. I'm also concerned about my recovery, it will be around 1,6k so that's awfully low, my KF cooldown would be like 11,3 secs or so and that's horrible.

Ok, so I talked to a friend who plays his SW everyday (and I consider him better than me). He uses sigil for trash and wheel for bosses, but he said wheel is not that good for SW because the wheel doesn't proc from every SW hit. That's the answer then.

For arpen I follow a rule on every toon. I ignore the ability (str, dex, etc) that gives me arpen, probably getting 5 or 7% resistance ignored from the stat because it will be 15-17 since it's probably one of your secondary stats, plus 3% from Dread Ring boon, and a legendary striker companion with 1,150 arpen (mine has 1,153), plus 1,000 from lantern, 342 from shirt + pants, 225 from buffs (I don't remember what buffs =p) and 400 from a boon which I don't recall at the moment....all this for a total of 1,967 arpen.
Using 3 bondings rank 12, a single loyal avenger piece, I get to 6,000-6,200 arpen always. I use the other two companion item slots for brutality and dod.
Next mod I'll farm brutality +5 and a fierce ring of the companion +4

@kallephi#0836 thanks for your answer. We don't have loyal avenger gear on console though, any suggestions? I guess I will have to rank 1 or 2 dark enchantments to 12, holy cow that will be expensive. I really wanted to have 60% base ri but seeing how much arp I will lose when switching to orcus set and relic gear (have vivified boots already but keep getting the recovery variants for the rest in fbi) I think I have no choice but to reply on my bonding companion to get to the cap. I also took armour pen boons whenever possible.

Companion gear looks promising by the way, can't wait to see adorable bites or whatever is called getting its value drecreased to hilarious ammounts of ad, from 8 million ad each to like 5k ad each, oh yeah!

You'll farm brutality for your toon rather than your companion, right?

Instead of the 435 arpen you get from loyal avenger you can use a Vicious Rank 12 on offense slot (420 arpen, 420 power).
You can either buy one adorable bites ring, try your luck with brutality +5 or greater ostorian ring of dod...or you can wait for mod 11 when we are having new companion gear with 2 offense slots. I'm waiting for that so I can get 100% crit on my GF

chimerax

I just hope the new Loyal gear along with the nerf of Underdark rings on companions, Will open up a greater variety of usable Companions...I want my Shadow Demon back !

xs13red

Shadow Demon is getting its damage nerfed to match other companions.

chimerax

xs13red said:

Shadow Demon is getting its damage nerfed to match other companions.

It already is after last patch. I just want more variety of viable summoned companions instead of Fire Archon, Con Artist.