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Should there be a limit to AH undercutting ?

lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User
edited January 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
Just asking.

I usually post sth in the same price as the last person posting the same item before me since I expect a buyer will buy the most recent item posted at the lowest available price. If it's two or three at the same price, they will buy the one posted last and at the top of the list, so there's no need to lower it any further.

I do this mainly cuz I don't like undercutting the person before me and I feel that I'm not contributing into extreme drops of prices in the AH.

Since it does bug me when I see someone post an item 10-20 and I've even seen 100K AD less than the last person, do you peepz think there should be some kind of limit to the lowest price of an item (depending on quality and number of posted items, not flat) in the AH ?

There's a similar system to another game I'm playing, where you just can't post below the lowest suggested market price, which I find good in my opinion, since it balances the cost of acquiring (running content for) the said items and maintaining the economy and content involvement to a healthy level.

Whatcha guys think ?

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    reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,435 Arc User
    And who sets the market price?
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    lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User
    reg1981 said:

    And who sets the market price?

    There's already a suggested price when you try to post an item.
    People take it from there and overprice or undercut bu 100's of K of AD.

    So I guess that would be the developer, same as the other game I'm playing.
    There's minimum price tag under which you are not allowed to post the item.
    It keeps the value of items relative to their means of acquiring or usefulness.

    Dunno how it could or would work in NW, just asking to see what the general feeling about undercutting prices in the AH is.
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    lowendus said:

    reg1981 said:

    And who sets the market price?


    There's already a suggested price when you try to post an item
    .
    People take it from there and overprice or undercut bu 100's of K of AD.

    So I guess that would be the developer, same as the other game I'm playing.
    There's minimum price tag under which you are not allowed to post the item.
    It keeps the value of items relative to their means of acquiring or usefulness.

    Dunno how it could or would work in NW, just asking to see what the general feeling about undercutting prices in the AH is.
    Which is based on what people are posting their items for.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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    lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User
    urabask said:

    lowendus said:

    reg1981 said:

    And who sets the market price?


    There's already a suggested price when you try to post an item
    .
    People take it from there and overprice or undercut bu 100's of K of AD.

    So I guess that would be the developer, same as the other game I'm playing.
    There's minimum price tag under which you are not allowed to post the item.
    It keeps the value of items relative to their means of acquiring or usefulness.

    Dunno how it could or would work in NW, just asking to see what the general feeling about undercutting prices in the AH is.
    Which is based on what people are posting their items for.
    So what ?

    Would setting a limit to the lowest price benefit the AH and item prices or not ? :)
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    lowendus said:

    urabask said:

    lowendus said:

    reg1981 said:

    And who sets the market price?


    There's already a suggested price when you try to post an item
    .
    People take it from there and overprice or undercut bu 100's of K of AD.

    So I guess that would be the developer, same as the other game I'm playing.
    There's minimum price tag under which you are not allowed to post the item.
    It keeps the value of items relative to their means of acquiring or usefulness.

    Dunno how it could or would work in NW, just asking to see what the general feeling about undercutting prices in the AH is.
    Which is based on what people are posting their items for.
    So what ?

    Would setting a limit to the lowest price benefit the AH and item prices or not ? :)
    It could have negative effects if they set it too high and don't adjust it regularly. I wouldn't trust Cryptic to handle it well.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,217 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    No, I don't mind people undercut me. If they (say) sell the same item 50% below me, good for them. I go for free market.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,093 Arc User
    I post to make sure I sell.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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    pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    The suggested price you see is most likely an average selling price. However the time frame it checks appears to be rather long, making the prices unrealistic. The only way it may be relevant that a great discrepancy may indicate a change in desirability due to bugs or an issue that makes acquisition easier or harder. The game is suggesting that price, but it is certainly not being set by a dev.

    As far as undercutting, the best strategy is to only post a lower than cuurent low price on slow moving items. For things that are bought in bulk such as RP, posting at a less competitive price usually sees good results if not always fast ones.

    As far as people wildly undercutting, if you have VIP, hold the line and let the market readjust. If the lit expires, repost it in lune with the current prices. If you don't have VIP fee-less posting, be patient and let the market readjust.

    If course if the undercutter goes low enough and you feel the demand is good, consider flipping the item yourself. Just remember that you will lose 10% of the sale price when deciding whether to buy! You will need at least a small window for profit, even if you are more concerned with protecting the value if your original item.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    I don't see any solution to undercutting...
    Well other than reducing the amount of items which are junk which I don't see realistic the way the game is set up.

    As kreatyve said, some people will always undercut. A limit won't solve the problem and in fact could make it worse. Better off just leaving it alone.
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    lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User
    urabask said:

    lowendus said:

    urabask said:

    lowendus said:

    reg1981 said:

    And who sets the market price?


    There's already a suggested price when you try to post an item
    .
    People take it from there and overprice or undercut bu 100's of K of AD.

    So I guess that would be the developer, same as the other game I'm playing.
    There's minimum price tag under which you are not allowed to post the item.
    It keeps the value of items relative to their means of acquiring or usefulness.

    Dunno how it could or would work in NW, just asking to see what the general feeling about undercutting prices in the AH is.
    Which is based on what people are posting their items for.
    So what ?

    Would setting a limit to the lowest price benefit the AH and item prices or not ? :)
    It could have negative effects if they set it too high and don't adjust it regularly. I wouldn't trust Cryptic to handle it well.
    I'd have to indeed agree with you on the Cryptic handling part.
    That would be my only concern
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    lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    No.
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    waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Some items are extremely overpriced and not only thanks to rarity. Come on, 30 000 000 for a mount? I dont care if there is only one on the whole server, that price is absurd. I had the RNG smile on me recently and drop a legendary manticore from a box. Its price was in the 20+ mil range. I cut it nearly in half and sold it. Surely the one who bought it probably just relisted for a higher price. And im fine with that since I actually wanted to sell it not keep in storage in the AH.
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    nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    >Should there be a limit to AH undercutting ?
    Not at all, never, in any way.
    If you think someone undercut you I suggest to buy their item and try to sell it at the appropriate price.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
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    hammbo1969hammbo1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 165 Arc User
    I once dropped a Token of Chromatic Storm from a lockbox. One was posted on AH for 15M, so I put mine on for 12M as I thought 15M was an obscene amount of AD, and 12M was slightly less obscene. Mine sold, his didn't.
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    adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    If I am selling something cheap, like refinement stones in the 300-3000 range, I just take the suggested prices and adjust them down a bit - I don't even bother to check if I am undercutting or not - it's not worth the time. If I am selling something really expensive (100.000 or more), I may take some days to study price fluctuations and supply/demand - then I pick a price. If things do not sell, I just relist - I have the VIP level that basically allows me to relist for free - something which actually encourages higher prices.

    As for setting a "floor" for undercutting - no way...it's a free market - however, it might be a good idea to have an undercutting warning, if you are, say 50% or more below the current market value - just in case you forgot one "0" or something like that.
    Hoping for improvements...
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    asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    No limit, please. While I dont like it, when ppl undercut prices and devalue items, there are some reasons, when undercutting is needed. For example:

    1. The guys posting are greedy HAMSTER and their prices are unrealistic high. I want to sell, so I post at an reasonable price.
    2. Drop rates changed, devaluing the items bc supply became higher, then demand.
    3. New items making other items obsolete. Supply stays the same, but no demand.
    4. Changes are announced, that have a massive effect on the value of the item (price of a GMOP was changed from 100k to 25k, with a cap ppl would have had to wait until they can sell them for realistic prices or wold have had to keep them until they lose 75% of their worth).
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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    mistranmistran Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    they just shoot themselfs into their foot, loosing ad, the next guy will undercut them anyway so theres no point in undercutting with 100k or something, your item won't sell faster, nor will it take longer to be undercut
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    cerberusxllcerberusxll Member Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    as frustrating as it is for the seller, undercutting is what ultimately brings the price down to a more realistic level that is affordable to everyone in general.

    I've posted items that have been undercut by 100k and more pretty quickly. it happens, while it is sometimes annoying, it happens. on the flip side of the coin, I have bought some items that have been on sale at a massively undercut rate, so what I may have lost to being undercut, I have benefited and then some from others doing it.

    I don't see any reason why a there should be a limit to it, someone loses by it, as I have, but many reap the benefits.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
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    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    BAD IDEA. If someone under cut's you who care's... IF I see something listed at 35k AD for example but see a consistent pattern at 50k I'd still list closer to the top end even if mine won't be the first to sell. Market only works because people are free to buy and sell for what they are willing. If the item doesn't sell within the first few hours it's likely I need to rethink what I'm asking for it as well. :)

    Just because someone is asking a set price doesn't mean that's the value either...
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,217 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    BAD IDEA. If someone under cut's you who care's... IF I see something listed at 35k AD for example but see a consistent pattern at 50k I'd still list closer to the top end even if mine won't be the first to sell. Market only works because people are free to buy and sell for what they are willing. If the item doesn't sell within the first few hours it's likely I need to rethink what I'm asking for it as well. :)

    Just because someone is asking a set price doesn't mean that's the value either...

    +1. The price of the same item varies within 24 hours. There is certain item I post everyday. The suggested price usually is lower than I post and the lowest price usually is at least 1000 AD lower than my 2600 AD item. I sold that 2600 AD item without problem everyday. I am thinking I should post that at 3000 AD now. :)
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    diloul31diloul31 Member Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I always undercut 25% if there is many items available. (40% for useless blue rings)

    I get instant da and "poor" players make a a good deal.

    And i dont know if it's a bug but when you cancel an auction because the price "base" changed overnight, i don't get refund for fees... (ps4)

    So instead of loosing fees multiple time, i prefer undercut from the begining.
    Post edited by diloul31 on
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    namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    diloul31 said:

    I always undercut 25% if there is many items available. (40% for useless blue rings)



    I get instant da and "poor" players make a a good deal.



    More likely, someone got a good arbitrage opportunity to make 15%.
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    nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    diloul31 said:

    [...]And i dont know if it's a bug but when you cancel an auction because the price "base" changed overnight, i don't get refund for fees... (ps4)[...]

    You never get the posting fee refunded when cancelling, except if the item is bought/won. In this case you pay 10% AH tax minus posting fee.
    You don't pay a posting fee with the appropriate VIP Level.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
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    wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    some buys undercut items and then resells same items.
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    cerberusxllcerberusxll Member Posts: 387 Arc User
    wylonus said:

    some buys undercut items and then resells same items.

    I've done that more than the odd occasion.

    when lightfoot thief was one of the must have companions, and were listed at 1 million+AD, someone posted one for 500k. I snapped it up and immediately reposted it and ended up almost doubling my AD.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
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    silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Absolutely not.. undercutting makes things cheaper.. which helps alot of players..

    You might be pissed about it personally.. but overall its a good thing.

    Jeebus.
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