What is wrong with some of the classes in this game calling for nerfs to their fellow classmates that chose the better paragon path for the current mod? SW did it to the puppet builds, OP Healidins did it to the bubble (currently trying to get SoF + CoP looked at), DO DCs trying to nerf AA. You know who never pulls this HAMSTER, GWF? Lol you never see a Iron Vanguard/ Instigators crying about SM Destroyers having some OP power. The GWF community comes together and says "please look at the other 2 paths".
The fact is, even if you removed AA from the game entirely AC would still be more requested than a DO in PvE. What makes a DO "more fun" than an AC @putzboy78 I'm dying to know? PoD or Terrifying Insight? PoD doesn't even work.. That's what should be the topic of a rage thread. Also people want fully empowered BtS not PoD, and terrifying insight only increases your personal DPS 17.5% whereas the AC can raise the DPS of the party by ?% with a single cast of an At Will (BoB) with a base power of 30-35k.
I enjoy min/max builds. I don't follow builds I invent them. If I wanted a flat out DPS cleric maybe I'd go back to my mod 5 DO build. AC is hands down a better group player and probably a better solo player as well with or without AA.
I don't think DO's are crying to nerf AC. I think most of the posters on this thread are not even DCs, they are just coming here to spread their agenda. I think what most the DC community would like to see is a tolerant community that would accept healers/follow mechanics and DO, but that's not what they are seeing.
All dps communities pretty much work differently than support communities. DPS communities try to keep their secrets close in the interest of competitiveness. GWF included. DC community is the most supportive in the game.
DO is more fun that AC for me because:
1) BotS 2) No one is demanding they run the same rotation repetitively. I could replace doing a dungeon with a keybind and a /follow command at this point. This is no different than when we were nothing but AP generators. You want AP, you want AA, do it yourself.
Who said PoD?
And you are free to your opinion and to do what you want. Come together with me to support the DO community, don't attack me because I don't enjoy your "invented" build which I don't see posted anywhere (wonder why).
This thread started on that pretense. A DC wanting the party to work together, not just be carried by the DC and wanted flexibility in how we can approach content.
BTW BIS in an MMO is pointless. MMOs are about social interactions. If you want good game play you go to FPS or RPG. Game play is better in both those environments. MMOs are only as good as the community you socialize in and for me that community needs to be supportive of peoples builds and tastes. I'd much rather play with people who are having fun, than people who are bored because they are running the meta and have max/min'd. Thankfully I run in an alliance and a guild that share that tolerance
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
whem righous came in in mode 5 i think. players had L60 max. one crit hit of fire of gods and u kill someone in PVP (no tenacity as well) stat was hard to get. today jarl's Gaze give u 3K power, (=4xR12 radiant)
its diffrent story now. today all build on linear stat and power wins all. AC rule now and with the new weapon enchants AC will continue to be the beast of PVE.
yes it was mod 5, noone was ever getting killed one shot by Fire of the Gods
Power does not rule all, its popular at the moment thanks to a few mechanics that can multiply it which you cannot do with stats atm. If we could go back to perma-dailys through hastening light, everyone would be demanding that instead or in addition.
People will demand whatever can be manipulated to ensure fast success, because any failure is met with rage. Gamers have 2 mods. Stroking self ego and raging on others. That's one of the reason NW is such a great place for many, you can't loose, if the dev's look at success rates on dungeon runs, I'm sure its much higher than would be targeted than in a pen/paper D&D environment.
It is kinda funny how AA is getting such blame for game breaking mechanics . When one of the biggest issue in this game is players that can spam dailys every 3 seconds no matter what class they are that is whats broken. Daily power's should not be able to just pop like an atwill yet so many have set that as there build. And when you can POP AA every 3 seconds then you have unkillable parties. Pretty much all daily's should have some set CD that can not just simply be spammed by having stacked AP gain. I really feel that is the issue at hand as many dailys are so OP and was never intending by the Devs to be used so often. They should be well planned out as to when it is best to use them. Look at most classes and you will see if it is in PvP or PVE that is how they manage best to exploit their builds.
That´s one of a million reasons why PVP is unbearable atm, TR´s chains dailies, "permacouragebreaked" "perma-SE´d" About AA I think it is by sure too much. Having a daily that spends a high powerbuff+rebuff, a big defensebuff + damageimmunity + cc-immunity on top ...has to reworked or fixed imo. Tbh, it is not about that daily everyone rages, it´s more about the lack in deversity. After the inevitable nerf there will be a next meta. Maybe AC again, maybe DO with a fixed PoD + eBtS + xy , who knows. I am pretty sure after one year everyone will be bored again and call for a nerf or rework
@putzboy78 devs needed 3 years to fix TT and that puppet. 3 years for a rework, and still several powers doesn´t work correctly...
I play PS4. My AC cleric is lvl 3600. I started this one during Black Friday sale. I transferred all my stuff from my main GWF and GF, but still spent a ton of money to get her to where I want her.
Stop changing the character powers. AA is fine. If you think it needs change then stop your bitching and look at your own character's weak spots and fix it.
I PVP constantly with my DC and hate the TR's, smoke bombs, disappearing acts and the like. Do I cry and call for a nerf so I can do better? No. I learn different strategies.
If you change my cleric, you think ARC will reimburse my $3000 I've spent on this game on my 3 mains since July? Will you? I have no problem spending money in this game, but if the rules keep changing, why spend any more?
AA is not broken. I die a HAMSTER ton in FBI, trying to help others out that are not wallet builds. I help guild mates and total stranger pug groups. I love helping people. I just took 3 pug groups in CN. 40% of them have never been in there. I'm trying to build this gaming community up. Not tear it down with complaints and nerfs.
Clerics are helping you. They are a support build. I don't see any reason to change. BTW I played AD&D in the 80's.
Then you should examine what you are doing wrong. Plenty of DCs using the broken AA as the god-mode, we WIN! button. You probably think this should be normal and enjoy feeling like a god carrying a bunch of min iLvl newbies through CN by yourself.
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dravendrow76Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 38Arc User
Plenty of DCs using the broken AA as the god-mode, we WIN! button
...and for whom??? ...and why??? Because all little crybaby DDs are not able to finish any content without it. Look at what people are looking for! Hours of Hours they cry lf AA DC instead of trying to do by their own. Look at all the msva threads, all claiming about brainless DDs who only have one goal, get paingiver. Who saves players? Who pick them up? Who buffs the HAMSTER out of these brainless Conans?? And why?? Because they want it no other way. Where are you nerf AA guys all when not BIS Players looking for groups?? Where are you? When normal playing Guys look for groups MSVA/FBI. All of you who shout for a nerv... where are you to help the Base Player to do Content??? Never seen only one post like : lf9m players 3.1k not exp to do MSVA/FBI with you.
whem righous came in in mode 5 i think. players had L60 max. one crit hit of fire of gods and u kill someone in PVP (no tenacity as well) stat was hard to get. today jarl's Gaze give u 3K power, (=4xR12 radiant)
its diffrent story now. today all build on linear stat and power wins all. AC rule now and with the new weapon enchants AC will continue to be the beast of PVE.
yes it was mod 5, noone was ever getting killed one shot by Fire of the Gods...
at mod 5 ppl didnt had tenacity and at level 60 players had 20-40K HP fire of the gods did 1-2K damage a sec for 15 sec... in PVP DO was a monster (i still have several triple kills from that time) keep in mind that stat was hard to get, and 20% damage reduction of HG was considered a game breaking.
ppl expect DO to be good as it was one year ago. but this path is not good at the moment, with the recent changes it is a weak path with limited buff options and annoying cool down on daily cast. (TR can cast 4 daily a min in PVP while DO can hardly reach 2 in PVE)
you are knocinkg on the wrong door, you need to ask for DO update.
Then you should examine what you are doing wrong. Plenty of DCs using the broken AA as the god-mode, we WIN! button. You probably think this should be normal and enjoy feeling like a god carrying a bunch of min iLvl newbies through CN by yourself.
Wow talk about condescending.
I don't carry min levels though CN. These are 2800-3k players that don't know mechanics. Most people don't have the patience to help. First time I went Cn took 4x as long as it does now.
Plenty of DCs using the broken AA as the god-mode, we WIN! button
...and for whom??? ...and why??? Because all little crybaby DDs are not able to finish any content without it. Look at what people are looking for! Hours of Hours they cry lf AA DC instead of trying to do by their own. Look at all the msva threads, all claiming about brainless DDs who only have one goal, get paingiver. Who saves players? Who pick them up? Who buffs the HAMSTER out of these brainless Conans?? And why?? Because they want it no other way. Where are you nerf AA guys all when not BIS Players looking for groups?? Where are you? When normal playing Guys look for groups MSVA/FBI. All of you who shout for a nerv... where are you to help the Base Player to do Content??? Never seen only one post like : lf9m players 3.1k not exp to do MSVA/FBI with you.
Exactly! BIS players that have their own click. Own MSVA groups. They don't have the time or energy to help someone they don't know learn about the game.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
whem righous came in in mode 5 i think. players had L60 max. one crit hit of fire of gods and u kill someone in PVP (no tenacity as well) stat was hard to get. today jarl's Gaze give u 3K power, (=4xR12 radiant)
its diffrent story now. today all build on linear stat and power wins all. AC rule now and with the new weapon enchants AC will continue to be the beast of PVE.
yes it was mod 5, noone was ever getting killed one shot by Fire of the Gods...
at mod 5 ppl didnt had tenacity and at level 60 players had 20-40K HP fire of the gods did 1-2K damage a sec for 15 sec... in PVP DO was a monster (i still have several triple kills from that time) keep in mind that stat was hard to get, and 20% damage reduction of HG was considered a game breaking.
ppl expect DO to be good as it was one year ago. but this path is not good at the moment, with the recent changes it is a weak path with limited buff options and annoying cool down on daily cast. (TR can cast 4 daily a min in PVP while DO can hardly reach 2 in PVE)
you are knocinkg on the wrong door, you need to ask for DO update.
Tenacity was introduced in module 3, so yes we had tenacity in mod 5 when the DC was reworked.
The cool downs on dailys for DO is the same as it is for AC, no difference whatsoever, so i'm not sure what your referring to.
What we need is a fix for the stuff that is broken, im not saying nerf, but if you think that people can spend all day looking for one specific power to join a SVA party and dev's aren't going to change it, you are sadly mistaken. If you read back at the thread, you will see what I'm saying is the easy mode mechanics (not just DCs) are taking away from the fun of the game.
Exactly! BIS players that have their own click. Own MSVA groups. They don't have the time or energy to help someone they don't know learn about the game.
First off you don't teach SVA in MSVA, you do the easy one first to learn, then go to MSVA. Also there are very good guides on the mechanics of SVA, how many people bother to do regular SVA and read the guides before they go?
How many times has a party wiped in MSVA because me (the DC) gets frozen in phase 1 and no one breaks the ice. That only happens because people don't know the mechanics and don't bother to learn. Not everyone expects to be carried, but I dare say a high percentage of the players who haven't completed their SVA farming yet are the type of players looking to be carried. Almost all the max/min crowd are done with SVA.
Well I guess if I had a Divine Oracle build thread on this forum that was falling further and further into obscurity I'd be upset about Annointed Champion as well.
Btw, I wasn't attacking you @putzboy78 , I was asking you as an advocate of DO who claims AC is not fun, what makes DO more fun to play? We are using almost identical powers with the exception of BoTS, Terrifying Insight, and possibly PoD. I personally kept the exact same stats, gear, and companions as I did when I was a DO. I play my AC as a DPS/buff/debuff cleric using the same rotation and powers as I did as a DO and the fact is even without AA my AC build out performs my DO in both group play and solo play. Mainly from Blessings of Battle power sharing with R12 bondings, but also Annointed Armor for the versatility of a Tank spec. Yes Brand of the Sun is nice, so is having TI, and freeing up those 10 points in Virtuos path to go full Righteous, just not enough to compete with AC.
Yes, when groups request an DC with AA these days they are doing it more for the 4 hit mitigation rather than the power sharing to avoid 1 shot (a ridiculous game mechanic if you ask me), just as when groups request a SW they are looking for a DPS not a healing Templock, or when they ask for a CW they want a MoF and not a CC build, and when they asked for an OP they wanted the bubble and not a Healidins. Yes it sucks that people only ask for those things when grouping but that's only because they are looking for quick runs in an otherwise grind fest of a mod, or they lack the survival tools to stay alive themselves. (With one shot game mechanics that includes everyone but the 2 tank classes)
From longterm player and a tank, I hope they balance AA to something that is acceptable. Right now it trivialises content much like when CWs just CCed everything, or GWFs being invunerable and dealing huge damage or that time when paladins just perma bubbled everything.
Sure it is not on those levels, but calling for nerfs is not because one build is overpowered compared to the other, it's just the one daily that ruins the balance of the game. Ive done multiple runs with DO or healadin through FBI and it was fine, requiring people to actually play with the mechanics than just play in snooze mode.
I'd not like to see it nerfed so it is useless but balanced to something that does not ruin the current gameplay, make it a 80% absorb, block AP gain when it is up or remove the CC component to it. Just anything to make it so it is in-line with other daily powers.
But hey, I'm a different kind of player to most of the community. I like to play a game than is fun and challenging, not a game where I just press buttons for digital shinies.
AA is fine, if you don't like spamming it then don't use it. If you don't like people calling for it then don't run with them. Play how you want to play; if its fun and you aren't a team sink, then you are doing it right.
Comments
All dps communities pretty much work differently than support communities. DPS communities try to keep their secrets close in the interest of competitiveness. GWF included. DC community is the most supportive in the game.
DO is more fun that AC for me because:
1) BotS
2) No one is demanding they run the same rotation repetitively. I could replace doing a dungeon with a keybind and a /follow command at this point. This is no different than when we were nothing but AP generators. You want AP, you want AA, do it yourself.
Who said PoD?
And you are free to your opinion and to do what you want. Come together with me to support the DO community, don't attack me because I don't enjoy your "invented" build which I don't see posted anywhere (wonder why).
This thread started on that pretense. A DC wanting the party to work together, not just be carried by the DC and wanted flexibility in how we can approach content.
BTW BIS in an MMO is pointless. MMOs are about social interactions. If you want good game play you go to FPS or RPG. Game play is better in both those environments. MMOs are only as good as the community you socialize in and for me that community needs to be supportive of peoples builds and tastes. I'd much rather play with people who are having fun, than people who are bored because they are running the meta and have max/min'd. Thankfully I run in an alliance and a guild that share that tolerance
Power does not rule all, its popular at the moment thanks to a few mechanics that can multiply it which you cannot do with stats atm. If we could go back to perma-dailys through hastening light, everyone would be demanding that instead or in addition.
People will demand whatever can be manipulated to ensure fast success, because any failure is met with rage. Gamers have 2 mods. Stroking self ego and raging on others. That's one of the reason NW is such a great place for many, you can't loose, if the dev's look at success rates on dungeon runs, I'm sure its much higher than would be targeted than in a pen/paper D&D environment.
Look at the mount bonus on the next lockbox, they are cashing in on it before they change it
About AA I think it is by sure too much. Having a daily that spends a high powerbuff+rebuff, a big defensebuff + damageimmunity + cc-immunity on top ...has to reworked or fixed imo.
Tbh, it is not about that daily everyone rages, it´s more about the lack in deversity.
After the inevitable nerf there will be a next meta. Maybe AC again, maybe DO with a fixed PoD + eBtS + xy , who knows.
I am pretty sure after one year everyone will be bored again and call for a nerf or rework
@putzboy78 devs needed 3 years to fix TT and that puppet. 3 years for a rework, and still several powers doesn´t work correctly...
Stop changing the character powers. AA is fine. If you think it needs change then stop your bitching and look at your own character's weak spots and fix it.
I PVP constantly with my DC and hate the TR's, smoke bombs, disappearing acts and the like. Do I cry and call for a nerf so I can do better? No. I learn different strategies.
If you change my cleric, you think ARC will reimburse my $3000 I've spent on this game on my 3 mains since July? Will you? I have no problem spending money in this game, but if the rules keep changing, why spend any more?
AA is not broken. I die a HAMSTER ton in FBI, trying to help others out that are not wallet builds. I help guild mates and total stranger pug groups. I love helping people. I just took 3 pug groups in CN. 40% of them have never been in there. I'm trying to build this gaming community up. Not tear it down with complaints and nerfs.
Clerics are helping you. They are a support build. I don't see any reason to change. BTW I played AD&D in the 80's.
Because all little crybaby DDs are not able to finish any content without it.
Look at what people are looking for! Hours of Hours they cry lf AA DC instead of trying to do by their own.
Look at all the msva threads, all claiming about brainless DDs who only have one goal, get paingiver.
Who saves players? Who pick them up? Who buffs the HAMSTER out of these brainless Conans??
And why??
Because they want it no other way.
Where are you nerf AA guys all when not BIS Players looking for groups?? Where are you?
When normal playing Guys look for groups MSVA/FBI.
All of you who shout for a nerv... where are you to help the Base Player to do Content???
Never seen only one post like : lf9m players 3.1k not exp to do MSVA/FBI with you.
fire of the gods did 1-2K damage a sec for 15 sec... in PVP DO was a monster (i still have several triple kills from that time)
keep in mind that stat was hard to get, and 20% damage reduction of HG was considered a game breaking.
ppl expect DO to be good as it was one year ago.
but this path is not good at the moment, with the recent changes it is a weak path with limited buff options and annoying cool down on daily cast.
(TR can cast 4 daily a min in PVP while DO can hardly reach 2 in PVE)
you are knocinkg on the wrong door, you need to ask for DO update.
I don't carry min levels though CN. These are 2800-3k players that don't know mechanics. Most people don't have the patience to help. First time I went Cn took 4x as long as it does now.
The cool downs on dailys for DO is the same as it is for AC, no difference whatsoever, so i'm not sure what your referring to.
What we need is a fix for the stuff that is broken, im not saying nerf, but if you think that people can spend all day looking for one specific power to join a SVA party and dev's aren't going to change it, you are sadly mistaken. If you read back at the thread, you will see what I'm saying is the easy mode mechanics (not just DCs) are taking away from the fun of the game. First off you don't teach SVA in MSVA, you do the easy one first to learn, then go to MSVA. Also there are very good guides on the mechanics of SVA, how many people bother to do regular SVA and read the guides before they go?
How many times has a party wiped in MSVA because me (the DC) gets frozen in phase 1 and no one breaks the ice. That only happens because people don't know the mechanics and don't bother to learn. Not everyone expects to be carried, but I dare say a high percentage of the players who haven't completed their SVA farming yet are the type of players looking to be carried. Almost all the max/min crowd are done with SVA.
Btw, I wasn't attacking you @putzboy78 , I was asking you as an advocate of DO who claims AC is not fun, what makes DO more fun to play? We are using almost identical powers with the exception of BoTS, Terrifying Insight, and possibly PoD. I personally kept the exact same stats, gear, and companions as I did when I was a DO. I play my AC as a DPS/buff/debuff cleric using the same rotation and powers as I did as a DO and the fact is even without AA my AC build out performs my DO in both group play and solo play. Mainly from Blessings of Battle power sharing with R12 bondings, but also Annointed Armor for the versatility of a Tank spec. Yes Brand of the Sun is nice, so is having TI, and freeing up those 10 points in Virtuos path to go full Righteous, just not enough to compete with AC.
Yes, when groups request an DC with AA these days they are doing it more for the 4 hit mitigation rather than the power sharing to avoid 1 shot (a ridiculous game mechanic if you ask me), just as when groups request a SW they are looking for a DPS not a healing Templock, or when they ask for a CW they want a MoF and not a CC build, and when they asked for an OP they wanted the bubble and not a Healidins. Yes it sucks that people only ask for those things when grouping but that's only because they are looking for quick runs in an otherwise grind fest of a mod, or they lack the survival tools to stay alive themselves. (With one shot game mechanics that includes everyone but the 2 tank classes)
Sure it is not on those levels, but calling for nerfs is not because one build is overpowered compared to the other, it's just the one daily that ruins the balance of the game. Ive done multiple runs with DO or healadin through FBI and it was fine, requiring people to actually play with the mechanics than just play in snooze mode.
I'd not like to see it nerfed so it is useless but balanced to something that does not ruin the current gameplay, make it a 80% absorb, block AP gain when it is up or remove the CC component to it. Just anything to make it so it is in-line with other daily powers.
But hey, I'm a different kind of player to most of the community. I like to play a game than is fun and challenging, not a game where I just press buttons for digital shinies.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
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