Tyrannical Curse noob question

chimerax

It is sad that I have been playing for 6 months and not knowing some basics. When you apply Tyrannical Curse to a target, is it consumed just like regular curses? Does it have a duration that you have to refresh or does it stay on till the target is dead? Do you have to reapply it in circumstances like Lostmauth or Orcus when the fight is interrupted for a period, then you have to re-engage the Boss?

Also After applying Tyrannical Curse, do you still need to keep casting warlocks curse on the same target?

toflux78

There are a lot of sw guru here, but short answer from a student
- TC have a duration, when the TC it is applied, you do not need to cast curse
- TC > Curse : this means that you are not able to curse a target that have TC applied. On the contrary if you cast TC to a cursed foe, TC will be applied and the curse goes.

(PS: hope that this is clear... sorry for my english not my first language)

chimerax

was hoping for a detailed discussion on the mechanics of this.

toflux78

So waiting for the guru, I can only answer your questions.

chimerax

I appreciate the help toflux78

schietindebux

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

toflux78

chimerax said:

I appreciate the help toflux78

Np I'm a noob too... waiting for some reply to understand little more

chimerax

schietindebux said:

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

Thank you, it is nice to have it all layed out sometimes

naoqueroforum

schietindebux said:

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

TC is actually ineffective on single targets only after mod 10.5. At the beginning of Mod 10, it was still good on single targets as well since it added a huge unintended damage bonus, removed at 10.5. But even early mod 10, I think it blocked WC for SS purposes iirc. But given how huge the bonus from TC could be, it was worth it even for SS spamming.

schietindebux

naoqueroforum said:

schietindebux said:

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

TC is actually ineffective on single targets only after mod 10.5. At the beginning of Mod 10, it was still good on single targets as well since it added a huge unintended damage bonus, removed at 10.5. But even early mod 10, I think it blocked WC for SS purposes iirc. But given how huge the bonus from TC could be, it was worth it even for SS spamming.

right they fixed it two times, forgot about that mod 10 to 10.5
I did not test TC vs WC on singel target since then, but my testing showed TC<WC

I also want to add , that following this list, TC is not capped at 200%, but WC will stay superior since it´s ab buff and not mitigated
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10120093-patch-notes:-storm-king's-thunder-class-balance

Tyrannical Curse

The initial damage dealt by this power will now properly be affected by damage buffs, debuffs, and immunities.
Was actually increasing the damage you deal to the target by ~40%, instead of the stated 20%. Now properly only increases your damage by 20%.
Your regular Warlock's Curse can be placed alongside this power now. However, the damage increase caused by Tyrannical Curse and Warlock's Curse do not stack.

Tyrannical Threat: Renamed to Tyrannical Curse. No longer causes your normal Warlock's Curse to be replaced by Tyrannical Curse. Instead, immediately casts Tyrannical Curse on your target. This means you can no longer have multiple targets affected by Tyrannical Curse at the same time.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10253573-patch-notes:-storm-king's-thunder:-sea-of-moving-ice

Scourge Warlock

Tyrannical Curse: The damage-increasing effect of this power no longer incorrectly scales with the player's power.
The effect now consistently increases the damage affected enemies take by 20%, as indicated in the daily power.

jaime4312

schietindebux said:

naoqueroforum said:

schietindebux said:

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

TC is actually ineffective on single targets only after mod 10.5. At the beginning of Mod 10, it was still good on single targets as well since it added a huge unintended damage bonus, removed at 10.5. But even early mod 10, I think it blocked WC for SS purposes iirc. But given how huge the bonus from TC could be, it was worth it even for SS spamming.

right they fixed it two times, forgot about that mod 10 to 10.5
I did not test TC vs WC on singel target since then, but my testing showed TC

@schietindebux I think what he means is that tc was better than wc for single target in mod 10, you may not know but @thefabricant himself pointed that out on another website and here as well that, even with mod 10 "fixes", tc wasn't working as intended (overperforming still, scaling with power, afffected by crit severity, etc) and was indeed providing a damage boost greater than 20%, more in the 40% range (so yeah, the patch notes you copy pasted did not match at all the way tc worked in mod 10), if I remember well, when tc's changes were announced for mod 10.5 he said something like "I estimate good warlocks (as in, top ones, that's how I understood it) will lose around 40% - 60% of their dps". Always keep in mind that cryptic's tooltips and patch notes usually don't don't match the way stuff works in nw!!

Mod 10.5 is another story for tc though, that's why I agree with you it shouldn't be used for boosting single target damage.

schietindebux

jaime4312#3760 said:

schietindebux said:

naoqueroforum said:

schietindebux said:

If you apply TC, wich is ineffective on singel targets since mod 10 btw., you should apply WC in case you are a Soulbinder.
Soul Scorch Dot only ticks in case it consumes WC. So it is allways SS-WC-SS-WC in case you want to profit from that DOT wich is 60% burning damage.
A lot of abilities and powers work with "curses" (TC, LC, WC, DC etc), Creeping Death procs from every curse as far as I know, that´s why ACC is the most important classfeature combined with high critrates.

There are some abiliies and powers that needs WC to work (tooltip helps), beside the fact that WC is a 20% damageboost and should ALLWAYS be applied 3 times

WC is needed in case of:
1. Soul Scorch spamming , IMPORTANT
2. Vampiric Embrance - noone uses this
3. Dark ones blessing - +10% LS rarely used, PVP, Templock maybe
4. deadly curse - only to squeeze the last 3 dps out of your warlock forget it
5. warding curse - not needed, used in PVP since mod 8 or 9
6. Harrow storm prone effect - not needed, maybe PVP
7. Wraith Shadow - worthless power, since debuff doesn´t work
8. BoVA - " flying dagger " - from minor interest
9. Hadar grasp - from minor interest for PVE

So there is only one power wich is important in PVE, to be used with WC-->Soul Scorch
If you apply TC on a target, WC effect (20%+damage) doesn´t work any more (read the patchnotes mod 9 to 10), you lower the single target damage but spread 30% damage to nearby targets (damagelink).
Beside that TC has the ability to crit , wich sometimes leads to some silly numbers running trash, but in my testings on a single target WC was allways superior in dps vs TC, that´s why we do not cast TC on single targets since mod 10, not being a Hellbringer and not being a Soulbinder ..... except some player who runs Curse Bite and use TC to not reapply WC

In my case Curse Bite 4/4 has a 7.1 sec CD and deals 13.725 damage (1933 damage per second)
FB 9.4sec, 17.256 (1835 d/s)
HS 9.4sec, 21.438 (2280 d/s
WB 12.6sec, 30.626 (2430 d/s)
Arms of Hadar 2.5sec 13725 (5490 d/s)
If you check the CD/damageratio it is AoH>>>WB>HS>CB>FB
Being a Hellbringer Arms of hadar is the go imho (PoP+AoH+KF), Curse bite is far behind in my math, if not CB has anything else to know about? Imo CB is HAMSTER to use, since it only works with TC or WC, HAMSTER to target since it has a short range, sry
Running beside a DC, AoH get´s resetted by hastening light -4sec, so you may spam it somehow.
Some switch to WB in some fights, in case the boss is hard to target with AoH -> Drufi, or lifts in the sky Hati.
If you read the tooltips and the power/damage value you will get to the same point.

TC is actually ineffective on single targets only after mod 10.5. At the beginning of Mod 10, it was still good on single targets as well since it added a huge unintended damage bonus, removed at 10.5. But even early mod 10, I think it blocked WC for SS purposes iirc. But given how huge the bonus from TC could be, it was worth it even for SS spamming.

right they fixed it two times, forgot about that mod 10 to 10.5
I did not test TC vs WC on singel target since then, but my testing showed TC

@schietindebux I think what he means is that tc was better than wc for single target in mod 10, you may not know but @thefabricant himself pointed that out on another website and here as well that, even with mod 10 "fixes", tc wasn't working as intended (overperforming still, scaling with power, afffected by crit severity, etc) and was indeed providing a damage boost greater than 20%, more in the 40% range (so yeah, the patch notes you copy pasted did not match at all the way tc worked in mod 10), if I remember well, when tc's changes were announced for mod 10.5 he said something like "I estimate good warlocks (as in, top ones, that's how I understood it) will lose around 40% - 60% of their dps". Always keep in mind that cryptic's tooltips and patch notes usually don't don't match the way stuff works in nw!!

Mod 10.5 is another story for tc though, that's why I agree with you it shouldn't be used for boosting single target damage.

Thx , I know that TC was bugged after mod 10, it was obviuos, like written in the patch node it scaled with power. I used that bug myself, reaching effectiveness like 400%+ on single target doing so and much higher in parties.
I only forgot about the fact that the change was from mod 10 to 10.5

tyrtallow

Curse Bite also affects targets with Lesser Curse. It's for that reason that it's my go-to power for squishy mobs because of Accursed Souls->shadow sip cancel->Curse Bite. It also works very well with ACC. Main problem with it is that it seems to have a target cap (possibly the standard 5, hopefully that gets buffed). Obviously mobs too squishy can just be at-willed to death.

TC is just that - a curse. By itself, it has nothing to do with basic SW class mechanics like Curse Consume and Curse Synergy. A Curse Synergy effect on a power occurs as long as the target has a curse (TC, WC, LC, Warlock's Bargain, etc) like the ones on Dark Spiral Aura or Curse Bite. A Consume Consume effect specifically requires WC, removing it while boosting the encounter power in some way (like the previously mentioned Soul Scorch). There are exceptions, like how Harrowstorm's Curse Synergy effect works.
It's all actually pretty intuitive if you just read the tooltips. You won't want to depend on tooltips for more complex mechanics like debuff stacking, but atm they're a little better at telling you what these powers actually do.

Curse stacking is complicated business. The bottomline is that curses DO stack (you can cast Warlock's Curse on something with Tyrannical Curse) but some effects can get suppressed. The most shocking example of this is the fact that SB can still spam WC->SC on something with Tyrannical Curse. Yes, SC gets Curse Consume-empowered. No, I have no idea which curse effects are suppressed/used. Yes, TC turns your SB spam DoT into an AoE.
If you're hearing about this just now it's because people are probably still testing this stuff. That's the whole point of why people keep testing stuff all the time.

schietindebux

tyrtallow said:

Curse Bite also affects targets with Lesser Curse. It's for that reason that it's my go-to power for squishy mobs because of Accursed Souls->shadow sip cancel->Curse Bite. It also works very well with ACC. Main problem with it is that it seems to have a target cap (possibly the standard 5, hopefully that gets buffed). Obviously mobs too squishy can just be at-willed to death.

MOd 10 Patchnode: " However, the damage increase caused by Tyrannical Curse and Warlock's Curse do not stack."

I never used Curse bite, because targetting, range etc. are unhandy to me.
I don´t know how a rotation with Curse Bite should work fluently running trash.
You run into those mobs, WC targets, but you need LC applied to get enough cursed target in range, so only way is Accrused souls (long animation, can be canceled)etc. , by that time most mobgroups are allready dead.
The use of CB for singel target doesn´t make sense and the use for FBI mSVA ... no way.
Maybe someone know how to get any benefit from that spell, to me it is from minor importance.

terrasight

I tested CB myself and imho theres no way to use it over FB or HG...

xs13red

I use pop then arms then curse bite on mobs. With ACC sloted.