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Dungeon Chart Adjustments
burndownxmas
Member Posts: 84 Arc User
So as we all know our favorite chart the DPS classes look to when first starting this game The "paingiver" isn't exactly the most accurate source for our DPS measurement just a description of our damage lump for the dungeon. So i've been wondering why we haven't updated this chart to reflect DPS or Healing per second (hps), all it really needs is to be outfitted with is a formula to take overall damage dealt and divide it with overall time in combat, same equally for healing. I for one think this should be implemented so we can see our field of ability along with our average growth, as well this would be a good tool for the devs to get ideas where builds, powers, and classes lie in effectiveness.
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Players look to paingiving, execution numbers and evaluate players commitments to party run. While ignoring facts that debuffing, tactical movements within field, also including CC effects are not calculated.
This measurement system killing team gameplay. Since dungeon starts,, mostly players do is rushing to build as highest paingiver numbers they can.. Players brainlessly rush to group enemies, die, and latter complain about game balance or chat got red from messages like healer su**er,
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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With the OP suggestion it will be less skewed by who rushed to the mobs first and will be more accurate.
Also not everyone changing spec, gear, or rotation every run.
Because it will NOT help everyone. Just a select few of HDPS or HDPS wannabees competing for paingiver. It irritates all the rest of us, ruins the fun in the dungeon for everyone except the two or three jerks in a pissing contest.
The rest of us (especially support class) are sick of the "I'm paingiver, your DPS sucks" race. It leads to selfish play.
Numbskulls sprinting ahead of the tank to get INB4 the competition then bragging about it. People not rezzing teammates so they can pull ahead on the scoreboard.
We already have that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And you propose more?
D&D is supposed to be about teamwork. Co-operation. Strategy. Synergy. Everyone contributing in some meaningful way that contributes to the goal.
@burndownxmas#7201 I sincerely respect that you want to improve your performance. OK. That's fine. There's an app for that. Advanced Combat Tracker. Enjoy.
The atmosphere in NW is toxic enough as it is. Add more intra-party competition? Hell no.
@greywynd said it best "Because of the attitudes it causes."
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
But seriously, add me to the list of ppl that would rather have all the charts removed. Calling for a bigger better e-peen meter is maybe not the best idea I've ever heard. A good measurement for how effective your build is? Easy. No charts necessary: Are you having fun playing? Did your team win? How smooth was the run? Did you die a lot?
In the end, it is not a build so much as knowing the game that gets you through.
@l0th4ri0 I'm glad the idea of improving the game makes you giggle; people scream day and night in the game for balance and someone proposes an idea that could possibly help that. Also I'm just gonna throw a counter point on your build theory there, go ahead go make a tank class any of your choosing then just slop points a little in each category just make a messy but ineffective build then go try tanking Orcus with it and tell me how it goes. A strong build that has synergy within itself, along with knowledge, and lastly your team synergy get you through.
And to make a counterpoint to your counterpoint, take a very well built tank into orcus and put that tank into an inept player's hands and watch that tank do very very poorly. This game is not just math. In fact, most of this game can be conquered with a completely random build or so-called trash classes/specs. Try it sometime. Play a "non-viable" build and see how viable it actually is. Don't believe everything you read on the forums.
Clearly over OPs head. But the rest of us got that reference.
[Insert Captain America gif]
OP also wants PC players to shut up because he is talking about console only...
"[Don't] put your two cents in off a half gathered idea; otherwise you'd realize console can't get ACT "
... which means this post violates Forum rules by excluding format comments without a prefix:
"PREFIX YOUR DISCUSSION TITLE WITH [PC], [XBOX], OR [PS4]"
But even if OP ignores experienced player's opinions, the basic problem with this proposal is the same.
In game charts do not improve the game experience for the team, just for a few individuals.
The best NW theory-crafter and game - statistician ever was Kaelac @theosymphony . Even Kaelac, who set the NW data-analysis standard, in his "PvE Party Class Role Guide" dismissed the value of the scoreboard. He did not believe it added to team synergy or efficiency.
Let me repeat that, OP. The man who invented NW theory-crafting said scoreboards don't help the team.
But Kaelac played on PC. You don't want PC players opinions. Sorry, forgot.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
You know that you are shooting your own argument in the foot.
The OP says the current scoreboard is not useful and propose how to change it.
You try to argue against him by saying "Kaelec said that the scoreboard has no value".
You do realize that by that you provide support for a scoreboard change. Any change.
Second:
The claim that consoles have no access to ACT is not discriminatory against PC player opinion. It's a simple fact that console players can't get the data PC players get using ACT, so the answer use ACT is irrelevant as counter argument for the OP proposal.
Third, to your point:
Even if the improvement is for the individual, what is wrong about it? As of now it is useless to the individual (shows who runs first to the mobs and not actual combat time). And useless to the group - per your own statement.
The OP offers how to make it more useful to the individual, so it's at least useful in some way. So where is the problem? To the group there is no change, it's still the same non-useful chart (per your claim too).
I would like to point out that the OP at least had good intentions, which is more than we can say for a lot of the drama queens and exaggerators that inhabit the forums from time to time.
Be great if there a tab that measures party efficiency/ team play.
Therefore is very competitive for dps which normally comes in 3 of them..
Meanwhile tank/healer which normally not much competition as its normally one of each on average party.
All it takes is one of the dps rushes in trying to out perform others ... the others dps will need to rush in to keep up to his dps / back him / picks him up.
Tank will be left behind or struggling when he reaches the battlefield to gain back aggro.
Healer will takes the blame dps dies or trying hard to keep them alive.
An OP tried to vote kick my renegade HV CW in a FBI run, bc he died more then the thraum CW running with current gear and did 50% less dmg. There are even BIS geared idiots, who dont get, that a 50% dmg boost for the party is better, then 50% more personal dmg.
That being said, the charts are useful and should not get removed, IMO. Someone with a bit of understanding knows, that buffs and debuffs rule atm. No one in his right mind would kick the only DC, to get another GWF for more dps. I want to see, what ppl contributed to the run. I know the classes and their value as buff/debuff. I wont compare MOF rene CWs dmg with a SS thraum CW, but if I run with a random party the charts show, if the GF has a conqueror build or not, if the DDs have a PvE or a PvP spec and generaly, if ppl know how to play and how they are geared (IL shows max 50% of the relevant stuff) to some degree.
1. An option for someone creating a queue to turn off the charts, same way you can fine-tune what gets auto-picked-up vs. what gets offered to whole party.
2. A playing style preference on your profile, similar to what XBox Live has. If you're set up as a 'casual' you won't see the after-game charts, if you're set up as 'achievement hound' or 'stat nerd' or something you do. And then in the background the PUG reinforcements logic tries to match with your playing style as much as possible.
Honestly though the far and away best way to guarantee you're going to get a dungeon group that is compatible with your playing style is to be in a guild that is compatible with your playing style and do runs with them. Which, in an MMO, is pretty much how it should be.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
This is why the charts don't help, man. Your point about an MoF doing less damage? How do you know he is debuffing well or debuffing AT ALL? That "data" at the end of the run is mostly useless -- although an argument could be made for the one thing that could be considered useful and that is the number of downs for the team. Did everyone die a lot? That can actually mean something, can be used to point out playstyle issues like not avoiding red enough. Or it may not mean much at all and that the group composition was not ideal... needing a DC or more DPS or what-have-you. Even this needs to be taken in context. A well-built crew can get their asses kicked if the players don't know what to do with boss mechanics sometimes. No chart can tell you these important things.