CW PVP control build: how to PvE as efficiently as possible ?

nezdin

Hi all,

I am a pvp-oriented controller CW. I am not Oppressor right now. I am Thaumaturge (with Icy Veins) to get some more DPS for PvE. Since I prioritise control in PvP I am a high recovery build so my DPS is still very low. I often end up last or next to last on dungeon runs. I have DPS armour (rather than recovery-oriented) for PvE. So: high recovery (silveries in offence); low crit (about 25%). And around 40% ArP in PvE.

The question is: given the constraints described above, what is the best configuration of encounters and passives to do PvE?

Things I have tried:

(1) Passives: Chilling Presence + Arcane Presence; Steal Time on tab (to get Combat Advantage) followed by RoE + Disintegrate and Chill Strike.
(2) Passives: CP + AP; Chil Strike on tab, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, RoE.
(3) Passive: CP + Eye of the Storm; encounters as above.

I know I won't be a DPS machine, but I would like to perform as best I can in terms of DPS in PvE, given the controller-path constraints I have chosen.

voidgift

Don't use ST on tab. Use a companion to gain CA. CoI is always on tab. With chilling precense, use icy terrain to freeze, then steal time.

urabask

A large portion of your stats in PvE come from your companion so unless you're willing to sink something like 12 million in bondings and 4 million into a comp/gear it won't make much difference.

nezdin

@voidgift why use CoI on tab when I have Icy Veins? I usually manage to get chill stacks on enemies in that way as I fight in close range.

@urabask it is true that I have completely neglected companions on this character (I have a healer which is still the companion you get at level 10). I do have the miniature apparatus of Gond obtained for free too (augment) but have no used it yet. Maybe I should focus on that one. But definitely not interested in spending millions of AD in bondings etc.

voidgift

Yea, you need bondings for that good dps. Usually icy terrain + steal time is enough to clear most mobs outside of dungeons and BHE.

For lesser geared toons, rotation matters even more. If you can't kill everything in one rotation or easily get oneshotted, control becomes very relevant.

I have a few alts geared with simple bta gear, that I sometimes bring out to do influence. If I didn't get the freeze from icy veins and the damage from chilling precense it would take forever. It is enough to kill most mobs in one or two rotations, and stay alive.

CoI on tab from distance, tp through the mobs to right behind them to get CA with companion, freeze with icy terrain, steal time for damage and control, throw disintegrate or SS depending on how many survivals, tp away and prepare for next attack.

voidgift

There are no good options for tab, but CoI becomes a good aoe. It is better to freeze with icy terrain, cause with the right timing, you can dodge attacks while you tp trough the mobs and freeze them before they have time to attack again. This is difficult with CoI and ST.

Steal time is just annoying on tab since the movement boost make it hard to position correctly.

nezdin

An thoughts on:

(a) which weapon enchant would be best for such a low crit build? I currently have lightning, but considered terror or plaguefire. (maybe smtg else?)

(b) what type of companion? I have a zhentarim warlock and the miniature apparatus of Gond augment. I am willing to buy relatively affordable runestones to equip them with if it would be useful.

c1k4ml3kc3

nezdin#5514 said:

Hi all,

I am a pvp-oriented controller CW. I am not Oppressor right now. I am Thaumaturge (with Icy Veins) to get some more DPS for PvE. Since I prioritise control in PvP I am a high recovery build so my DPS is still very low. I often end up last or next to last on dungeon runs. I have DPS armour (rather than recovery-oriented) for PvE. So: high recovery (silveries in offence); low crit (about 25%). And around 40% ArP in PvE.

The question is: given the constraints described above, what is the best configuration of encounters and passives to do PvE?

Things I have tried:

(1) Passives: Chilling Presence + Arcane Presence; Steal Time on tab (to get Combat Advantage) followed by RoE + Disintegrate and Chill Strike.
(2) Passives: CP + AP; Chil Strike on tab, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, RoE.
(3) Passive: CP + Eye of the Storm; encounters as above.

I know I won't be a DPS machine, but I would like to perform as best I can in terms of DPS in PvE, given the controller-path constraints I have chosen.

With that setup you can't be a good thaum and your survivability is going to be superlow.

Respec into Renegade and strictly speaking about AoE combat your ideal set of spells would be

(ST)[tab], Disintegrate [q], Icy Terrain [e] and Sudden Storm [r]

Concept is all about timing it properly. Great for stronghold farming. Collect the mobs, make sure that 20+ are following you.
Idea is to use Steal Time for the sake of Buff/Debuff value more than damage alone. It procs everything!
When they are in very close proximity one to another (15-30ft, a circle of Icy Terrain basically), unleash Icy Terrain, cast Oppressive Force, Steal Time and additional speed will make you to get into the position for the best possible sudden storm cast, taking no more than a fraction of a second. Whatever remains alive - finish with a disintegrate and several casts of at-wills.

Also, if you're a SpellStorm wizard (I didn't check), remove Arcane Presence and slot Storm Spell.
When facing tankier enemies like giants or beholders, switch steal time to conduit of ice and sudden storm with icy rays. You can even switch icy terrain with chill strike, although icy terrain builds up a nice amount of daily power. Your choice, basically.

nezdin

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

nezdin#5514 said:

Hi all,

I am a pvp-oriented controller CW. I am not Oppressor right now. I am Thaumaturge (with Icy Veins) to get some more DPS for PvE. Since I prioritise control in PvP I am a high recovery build so my DPS is still very low. I often end up last or next to last on dungeon runs. I have DPS armour (rather than recovery-oriented) for PvE. So: high recovery (silveries in offence); low crit (about 25%). And around 40% ArP in PvE.

The question is: given the constraints described above, what is the best configuration of encounters and passives to do PvE?

Things I have tried:

(1) Passives: Chilling Presence + Arcane Presence; Steal Time on tab (to get Combat Advantage) followed by RoE + Disintegrate and Chill Strike.
(2) Passives: CP + AP; Chil Strike on tab, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, RoE.
(3) Passive: CP + Eye of the Storm; encounters as above.

I know I won't be a DPS machine, but I would like to perform as best I can in terms of DPS in PvE, given the controller-path constraints I have chosen.

With that setup you can't be a good thaum and your survivability is going to be superlow.

Respec into Renegade and strictly speaking about AoE combat your ideal set of spells would be

(ST)[tab], Disintegrate [q], Icy Terrain [e] and Sudden Storm [r]

Concept is all about timing it properly. Great for stronghold farming. Collect the mobs, make sure that 20+ are following you.
Idea is to use Steal Time for the sake of Buff/Debuff value more than damage alone. It procs everything!
When they are in very close proximity one to another (15-30ft, a circle of Icy Terrain basically), unleash Icy Terrain, cast Oppressive Force, Steal Time and additional speed will make you to get into the position for the best possible sudden storm cast, taking no more than a fraction of a second. Whatever remains alive - finish with a disintegrate and several casts of at-wills.

Also, if you're a SpellStorm wizard (I didn't check), remove Arcane Presence and slot Storm Spell.
When facing tankier enemies like giants or beholders, switch steal time to conduit of ice and sudden storm with icy rays. You can even switch icy terrain with chill strike, although icy terrain builds up a nice amount of daily power. Your choice, basically.

Hey, thank you for your answer!

The thing is I am not aiming to be a good thaumaturge, but sticking with this build that I am making for pvp (and therefore low DPS, low crit). My aim is also not to be a PvE monster but rather, given the constraint of my build, how to do the most DPS as I can in PvE (so it is a secondary aim only). I used to be Renegade but now I want both Icy veins and Spell-twisting so this makes the Renegade path a "no" for me, as good as it is for buffs.

Some interesting observations you make:
ST on tab for the buffs --> I guess fewer buffs for Thaum than for Renegade, but would you say it is still the best option? (I have Icy Veins)
Sudden Storm --> I have put no points in that one! Maybe indeed it is an interesting power to consider for PvE. Its cooldown seems quite low too which makes it interesting for my high recovery build. I'll give your rotation a try for big mobs using it; it sounds effective!

I have more points in Eye of the Storm than Storm Spell simply because my crit is so low (I think it is around 25-30% in PvE). So that alone made me think that it is not worth using. I thought it was the most effective for high crit builds, but maybe I am wrong?

voidgift

Sudden Storm, I think is an underestimated spell in many cases. In particular in lower dps builds in highly populated areas. The area it strikes is small, but there is no target limit. Many people don't use it because it is tricky, or because they are all in on focused wizardry. If not always slotted, it still good to have in the arsenal. It is bugged, tho, with EotS, unless it has been fixed. If on mastery, it can transfer the 100% crit chanse to the next mobs you hit.

niadan

The only way to make what you want to work is to max out crit and arp on a good bonding companion so that you crit enough for Storm Spell to proc. Your arp and crit are way too low to be effective in pve as dps. Understand that most of your potential damage as a SS Thaum comes from CP and SS. High crit and powers that proc SS a lot will help you, thus the real reason for running coi on tab, IT, and Steal Time.

c1k4ml3kc3

I think that it would be the best idea to have a seperate PvP and PvE characters.

Otherwise, always, and always opt for the damage builds rather than recovery since you get more bang for the buck.

Unless there's a GWF who marks targets or a Trickster Rogue, you can use ST on tab to add a bit extra CA bonus, especially on the THAUM build. CoI tends not to be highly effective for quick combat, but it's amazing once you hit very high crit numbers. ST procs faster than CoI, so it's a great asset for buff/debuff value. It sucks in 1v1 situations, though.
When you attack tankier groups, use CoI. When you clear the mobs, use the ST (especially on tab). More so given that it can be canceled, so up to two or three procs will happen and CD is then either 4 or 6 sec depending upon your build.

urabask

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

I think that it would be the best idea to have a seperate PvP and PvE characters.

Otherwise, always, and always opt for the damage builds rather than recovery since you get more bang for the buck.

Unless there's a GWF who marks targets or a Trickster Rogue, you can use ST on tab to add a bit extra CA bonus, especially on the THAUM build. CoI tends not to be highly effective for quick combat, but it's amazing once you hit very high crit numbers. ST procs faster than CoI, so it's a great asset for buff/debuff value. It sucks in 1v1 situations, though.
When you attack tankier groups, use CoI. When you clear the mobs, use the ST (especially on tab). More so given that it can be canceled, so up to two or three procs will happen and CD is then either 4 or 6 sec depending upon your build.

His build doesn't matter. Armor/rings is easy to get, you only get 6300 crit from the enchants slotted in armor, and he's going to have to make his enchants for his companion anyways. If he does get bondings and comp gear he could easily hit high enough crit to justify going thaum. It won't be BiS but it'll let him clear pretty much any content anyways.

niadan

Wise advise.