Why do we have armor penetration resistance?

finalfantasyac7

So i've noticed some classes have almost 0 to 1k armor pen such as CW, HR and TR. Why?
I've seen many cw's running around in pvp doing insane dps with 0 armor pen... can anyone tell me how that's possible?
Hr's and Tr's don't need armor pen because they rely on their piercing damage.
Dps clerics can kill you without the need of armor pen.

So.... umm... can anyone please tell me why we have or need armor penetration resistance? (LOL)

icyphish

because we have apple pen and pineapple pen, why not add armorpen (๑˙ー˙๑)

finalfantasyac7

icyphish said:

because we have apple pen and pineapple pen, why not add armorpen (๑˙ー˙๑)

ppapap? kinda too long tho lol.
What i am saying is why we have armor penetration resistance if its get ignored by piercing and other powers anyway
Piercing ignores tenacity and means it automatically ignores armor penetration resistance. Dc's powers also ignores tenacity so... yeh you know what im trying to say here

treesclimber

You need armour penetration if your build cannot consist in piercing damage/buff or heals.....i dont get the question, there are toons of builds if you need or not armour penetration depends on your build.....

There are TR's build for AP gain and control, to hit with SE, TR's dont have many ways of riping through all the resistance in pvp without investing on the stat and many times the target will flee/heal etc, so investing all in power to get a 1 shot daillie is much easier way to kill, not to mention that no matter how much arm pen you gather in some cases it will not pierce all the protective layers while SE does.

There are DC's that only function is stay alive and imortalize others, why arm pen?

Unlike TR's CW's can break throu resistance more easly (if you are wondering about wicked reminder, it's hard to use properlly in pvp) with scorching burst, swath of destruction, ray of enfanblement, assaliant(thaumalurge case)/ chaotic nexus(renegade case), if this all togheter breaks through all the DR (wich rarelly does in endgame) then the power investment is total, if it doesn't the target will still take damage from other players with all those buffs even if the cw cant kill alone.

And if a DC righteous can kill you without armour penetration, you're not playing right or he's abusing of AA and rapid ap gain (surprise surprise -.-")

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rustlord

TR can't reach high enough numbers in armor penetration to make a difference. Some classes have resist debuffs, arpen from stats, feats and passives. that we don't. The exception is wicked reminder, it really debuffs the AIR it hits like wonders.

demonmonger

Armor pen is not working as it should...

finalfantasyac7

Thanks for the replies.
I appreciate the information you posted.
I tested the armor pen on my cw on a pally. First with 0 then with 12k armor pen (8k from guild boon + 4k from axe beak) The dps was the same using twisted weapons.
Also tested with another maxed mof cw in our guild using twisted weapons on my protection pally. Same crazy dps.

santralafax

It's racism against srong melee classes

demonmonger said:

Armor pen is not working as it should...

I had my armor pen up to 155% RI at one point, and there were still plenty of toons I couldn't scratch--or when I did, it really was just a scratch.

santralafax

treesclimber said:

You need armour penetration if your build cannot consist in piercing damage/buff or heals.....i dont get the question, there are toons of builds if you need or not armour penetration depends on your build.....

Hmmm... I wonder what build will free my GWF from ArPen? Maybe the same one that increases his dodges! :-)

finalfantasyac7

Ok, yeh i played a lot of dom solo on xbox today on my maxed 4276 IL Scourge warlock. ( Have 6.5k armor pen without guild boon and axe beak so together will be 18.5k armor pen.) Well... i tested
first with 20k power and 18.5k armor pen
Sec with 28k power and 10.5k armor pen
third with 32 power and 6.5k armor pen.

And the result = armor pen is broken lol.

rhadamathys

I know everyone is saying no ArP...I posted this on reddit, but I'll bring it up here. I play combat hr on xbox. I don't have act, but I do have basic logs. 29k power, 14k cs, 2.5k arp vs 21kpow 14k cs, 10.5k arp, I was doing 15% more damage with the higher ArP vs a trapper in limited dwarven valley testing. my piercing went down about 3k but my mitigated damage went up 7k... I'm doing more testing soon vs a gf to see there...

The argument for no arp, imo: piercing doesn't get mitigated and doesn't get deflected. thus having unmitigate damage as high as possible ensures steady damage via piercing

The argument for arp, imo: while piercing works, you still hit with the initial attack and are leaving damage on the table. Afterall total damage = mitigated damage + (unmitigated/2). If you can reduce the amount of mitigation, you have the potential to do more damage. Say your initial unmitigated hits are for 20k, no arp reduces that to 2-3k, higher arp might reduce that to 8-9k...

It would seem that ArP builds vs deflect classes or insanely high defense would see a lower overall dps, vs all other, they would see a higher overall dps. No ArP builds see consistent damage vs all classes. So it comes down to what you prefer.

micky1p00

finalfantasyac7 said:

Ok, yeh i played a lot of dom solo on xbox today on my maxed 4276 IL Scourge warlock. ( Have 6.5k armor pen without guild boon and axe beak so together will be 18.5k armor pen.) Well... i tested
first with 20k power and 18.5k armor pen
Sec with 28k power and 10.5k armor pen
third with 32 power and 6.5k armor pen.

And the result = armor pen is broken lol.

And how much Defense (% not stat) the person you attacked had ?
And how much ArP resistance?

If it's someone with 30% defense and 0 Tenacity, the result will be the same each time for ArP and only the power will make differnce, as it should.

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mamalion1234

HP > DEFence YOU are saying? eat now full hit from low penetration.

finalfantasyac7

mamalion1234 said:

HP > DEFence YOU are saying? eat now full hit from low penetration.

Its useless without tenacity. You will get melted even if you have 200k hp but i wasn't talking about hp, defense, deflect, etc... no i was talking about tenacity > armor penetration resistance.
Thanx for for the info tho.



- Edit -
My 4276 IL sw has 190k hp, 25% deflect and defense and 3863 tenacity.
I've seen a maxed cw hit me really hard with some encounter powers with 0 armor pen. So my question is.. how is that possible?

demonmonger

Armor pen is brokeded

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demonmonger

https://youtu.be/4cauU2IpFyA

Theme song to all who pvp

Armor pen is broken in too many ways to explain..

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mamalion1234

WHY i believe that defence and armor pene resistance do not work at all? I can understand that a gf can lower the dr with mark but doesnt make sense in that case to deal the same damage no matter if i slot defence boon or not? ( and i talk about on my gf not my cw). OR rogues dying on itc buff 50% dr?:).

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