Shadowy Disappearance and Blade Flurry: Has anyone found a use for them?

todesfaelle

Has anyone done build concepts lately that incorporate either of these two as core skills? I love the idea of Shadowy Disappearance, but I personally find it lackluster due to it not working properly in many areas, specially in its interactions with some TR feats. It seems to be a good utility skill for PVP, but it could perform better if it just proc-ed the Saboteur or Scoundrel capstones. I personally like how using it from Stealth does not incur a cooldown, but this may be a bug since it doesn't seem to mention its Stealth effects in its tooltip.

Blade Flurry on the other hand, I don't remember it being like this. I remember it used to have 20% damage increase per rank in the PTS, but since I didn't catch the mod back then live, I honestly don't know if it managed to go live with its initial rank ups in PTS. It would be a great source of AoE damage for PVE TRs if it worked like that, though.

So far, has anyone had any success in utilizing these two skills?

blur

Blade Flurry is widely used in PVE for trash clearing, while for Disappearance, i never saw any1 using it in PVE. No idea if its used in PVP, doubt it.

pipilac

nvm

rustlord

Nope, not in PvP, but Shadowy has good applications for parkouring!

Blade Flurry is your best AoE. Some with very high crit just spam it, but I prefer to use it with Lurkers -- with at least 1/3 Improved Cunning Streak encounters don't drop you in stealth during Lurkers, and Blade Flurry gets a free charge from stealth, so you can fire it to 10+ times, all crit with all stealth bonuses and no cooldown

todesfaelle

I love the idea behind your Lurkers + Blade Flurry strategy, man. I absolutely want to try it out soon. Coincidentally, Shadowy Disappearance doesn't seem to incur a cooldown in Stealth as well. Do you think it can also be done when used in conjunction with LA? Or does it incur a separate cooldown in Stealth?

micky1p00

You will probably need Tenacious Concealment at rank 4 to use the Blade Flurry + Lurkers 'feature' effectively.

demonmonger

1 only put one point in shadowy, but 4 in blade fury. Shadowy is a utility skill for when stuck in terrain or when you need to warp over to revive someone through some boss aoe

Lurkers with blade fury can easily pump out over 250,000 damage per monster aoe.

todesfaelle

I just wish the rank ups on the Blade Flurry would be reworked, because technically a multi-charge skill like that is just begging to be spammed at the right moment.

Has anyone tested if Lurker's + Shadowy Disappearance works similarly to Blade Flurry? Since Shadowy Disappearance also doesn't incur cooldowns from Stealth, I was wondering if it can be spammed for maximized mobility while in LA. Would be awesome if we could do that. Currently at work so I can't test, but I'll most likely do so later.

Glad to see the presence of our bright TR minds in our forums! Thanks for the answers, everyone.

Two follow up questions for everyone, if you were to maximize the effects and mechanics of Shadowy Disappearance, how would you do it? And if you were to rework it, how would you do it and why?

rustlord

Just tried. It's nothing spectacular in damage, AoE but range is too small to matter, and doesn't always work.

http://imgur.com/a/FLSuo

PS: You don't need Tenacious Concealment to spam Blade with Lurkers, but helps if you get hit. I use Infiltrators Action and just stand where there is no red.

todesfaelle said:

I just wish the rank ups on the Blade Flurry would be reworked, because technically a multi-charge skill like that is just begging to be spammed at the right moment.

Has anyone tested if Lurker's + Shadowy Disappearance works similarly to Blade Flurry? Since Shadowy Disappearance also doesn't incur cooldowns from Stealth, I was wondering if it can be spammed for maximized mobility while in LA. Would be awesome if we could do that. Currently at work so I can't test, but I'll most likely do so later.

Glad to see the presence of our bright TR minds in our forums! Thanks for the answers, everyone.

Two follow up questions for everyone, if you were to maximize the effects and mechanics of Shadowy Disappearance, how would you do it? And if you were to rework it, how would you do it and why?

demonmonger

I would rework shadowy disappearance as such

1. Add poisonous dot weapon based damage at escape point.

2. Add poisonous dot weapon based damage at entry point

3. Widen the aoe range

4. Increase the damage's per rank up

5. When stealthed grant 5 seconds combat advantage bonus after use.

6. Allow the skill to proc other weapon enchantments besides vorpal.

7. Increase the distance range of the skill.

micky1p00

rustlord said:

PS: You don't need Tenacious Concealment to spam Blade with Lurkers, but helps if you get hit. I use Infiltrators Action and just stand where there is no red.

I really dislike the lurkers keeps encounters in stealth thing. I think it behaves like this because encounters don't actually bring out of stealth but instead bring stealth to 0, and at the end of the frame loop is something like:

stealth = (stealth_recharge_speed - stealth_recharge_depletion) * frame_timer
if (stealth < 0) swap stealth mode.

But regardless, on dummies I can do about 15 BFs this way, subjectively it felt like with tenacious can do close to this in a real dungeon, while without it's not as reliable, and not because of getting hit, maybe it's because of moving a bit, and the +15% keeps the stealth going or going longer. Not sure.
Though it's not that important because I can't think of any place that you need more than 4 if they all crit.
So yeah, good chance it's my subjective dislike for it and not TC4 that affects it. Though I do not use Improved Cunning Sneak.

demonmonger

Lurkers does not keep stealth 100% when using multiple encounters... some encounters are set to deplete stealth 100%

micky1p00

demonmonger said:

Lurkers does not keep stealth 100% when using multiple encounters... some encounters are set to deplete stealth 100%

No, imagine what I've described, the frame time is about 15ms (assuming the server runs at 60 ticks per second), it's about the amount you recharge from 0 in that time. it keeps it at almost 0, but that almost is what makes the encounters behave like in stealth and crit, and get the bonuses.

It's the opposite of 100%.
You can do that with most encounters, smoke bomb, dazing, etc.. (using multiple encounters as in stealth after using lurkers, and regardless of the invisible infiltrator 100% refill)

demonmonger

Mmm I've had my stealth end and start ticking up again many times in lurkers

micky1p00

Encounters should drop out of stealth, no matter how much you have, in lurkers the encounter drops stealth to 0 and lurkers starts bringing it up (while in this semi stealth mode). You can repeat this and activate multiple encounters, each will drop stealth to 0 (or almost) but not drop out of stealth. Hence you get crapton of encounters in stealth.

I've wrote why I think this happens, but regardless of how, the result is the same.

demonmonger

I like the idea of lurkers keeping stealth for encounters. They already killed at wills and stealth potential

trgluestickz

I've seen shadowy disapearence used in only a few places, its situational at best and only really viable as a utility. In pve combat, its pretty useless. I would keep 1 point in it for map exploration or for when you get stuck inside the door in PE. I have seen it used in pvp only once, it worked as a decent mobility enhancer but is questionably worthwhile. Shadowy disappearence doesn't require a target unlike deft strike but its also harder to use as you can easily missjudge how far away you are aiming it and end up much further from your target than you meant to be. On the upside, shadowy disapearence can double as an escape route or as an easy way to get into an advantageous position. Its also ok at cutting people off. When weilded with some skill, it has potential in pvp but is still a little lacking compared to our other stuff.

Blade flurry is used in PVE by some TRs to clear mobs and is actually pretty good from what I hear. I know of no use for it in pvp.

demonmonger

You can preview cast it and run holding location on screen... then final cast even while jumping off high places
Shadowy dissappearance...

Most would not use it in pvp because it does not daze or slow and the power is not amazing... I would not lose smoke bomb for it, itc for it, not even shadow strike for it.

rustlord

I don't see a great deal of purpose to changing the way Lurkers work with Encounters. So it keeps you in stealth, it's a good thing.

todesfaelle

Tried LA + Shadowy Disappearance as well yesterday, and you're right, Rust. Nothing spectacular. I'm trying to salvage my permastealth build and see how much I can do with these new systems in place. Wish I could find the new soft caps for the stats, though.

todesfaelle

NVM, found the new soft caps, gosh this is a whole lot easier now.

demonmonger

I'm still using your stealth based build from years ago

todesfaelle

Glad to hear, man. I'm still trying to salvage the stealth play style, and it seems the devs will be doing balance passes solely for the TR for the next mod. I personally can't wait. We need to see how it plays out before we can really make any big investments to the class.

rustlord

Where did ya hear this? We're long due one of those!

todesfaelle

I didn't, actually. I just read the balance changes for the Guardian Fighter for Mod 10. The dev mentioned that for the next mod, only 1 class will get a balance pass. I assumed that it would be the TR because come on, we need some love, devs. Its been long overdue.

Here's the exact quote from Chris Matz.

"So, that wraps up a very long discussion of what we’re doing with these 3 classes, but what’s next? Well, we’ve already started work on more class reviews, but you probably won’t see another big batch in the following expansion. We want to be able to see how these changes are met, and make sure we have enough time to focus on responding to any issues that arise because of them, so we’ll slow down actual changes for the time being, and likely only have 1 class review in the following expansion."

Source: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10080453-class-balance:-guardian-fighter

micky1p00

todesfaelle said:

I didn't, actually. I just read the balance changes for the Guardian Fighter for Mod 10. The dev mentioned that for the next mod, only 1 class will get a balance pass. I assumed that it would be the TR because come on, we need some love, devs. Its been long overdue.

Here's the exact quote from Chris Matz.

"So, that wraps up a very long discussion of what we’re doing with these 3 classes, but what’s next? Well, we’ve already started work on more class reviews, but you probably won’t see another big batch in the following expansion. We want to be able to see how these changes are met, and make sure we have enough time to focus on responding to any issues that arise because of them, so we’ll slow down actual changes for the time being, and likely only have 1 class review in the following expansion."

Source: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10080453-class-balance:-guardian-fighter

Unfortunately on stream they said it is DC they are planning to work on next.

todesfaelle

Ah, well. Guess we'll have to stick to the horrible conditions we have right now. I just can't see the logic in their decision, however. Are the DCs in worse conditions than us? I don't play them so I don't really have an idea about what their class is going through.

rustlord

Interestingly, yes Next to the TR, DC is the second most nerfed class. But the bigger issue is that DCs can no longer fill their advertised role in PvE. You may not see it in PvP, but all top end DCs right now are not healers but dps buffers. Reason being that, all the higher dungeons one hit you even adds, currently, DC cant heal dead so its pretty pointless. Just looking at newly added content, a DC update is unfortunately, more relevant.