Chilling Strike vs Icy Rays: which is better for Single Target DPS/PvP?

khashir

Despite a bit of research, I've gotten conflicting information: on this thread, it seems that CS is better (and from my own numbers, I see it has a lower CD than IR).

However, I notice several guides suggesting IR over CS, especially for PvP. So, two questions:

1. Which provides more single target DPS? Assuming Conduit of Ice is on Tab (which is generally optimal, even in bosses). Alternatively, worth cranking out numbers for Icy Rays is on Tab (CS damage doesn't change on Tab).
   
2. Which is better for PvP? IR can immobilize 2 targets, CS can stun one (and CS has lower CD)
   

Thanks!

voidgift

In pvp you should never use CS. The animation is so slow you are dead before you can throw it.

I hate IR in pve cause of the clunky double targeting. In particular in laggy HEs and boss fights. They never go off right.

c1k4ml3kc3

khashir said:

Despite a bit of research, I've gotten conflicting information: on this thread, it seems that CS is better (and from my own numbers, I see it has a lower CD than IR).

However, I notice several guides suggesting IR over CS, especially for PvP. So, two questions:

1. Which provides more single target DPS? Assuming Conduit of Ice is on Tab (which is generally optimal, even in bosses). Alternatively, worth cranking out numbers for Icy Rays is on Tab (CS damage doesn't change on Tab).
   
2. Which is better for PvP? IR can immobilize 2 targets, CS can stun one (and CS has lower CD)
   

Thanks!

In PvP you'll want to throw everything you got on your enemy, and IR is extremely useful on Spell Mastery in PvP, especially when used on a single-target. Disintegrate, Ice Knife and IR would be my three primary powers for the PvP and either Icy Terrain or Steal Time to deal against the non-visible targets.

vordayn

Depends on your rotation and what you're building up (stacks of arcane/chill). The downtime between encounter casts may allow you to build up arcane stacks with magic missle for example.

Even though chillstrike has a lower cooldown, its animation is slow, hence it is limited in use in PvP and against mobs who knockback or drop red circles.

Spell twisting reduces any spell cooldown by 30% with 3 stacks, so even though icy rays has a longer cooldown, the absolute reduction in time for it is greater. Icy rays also gives you a bit more mobility when casting, and applies a stack of chill with each cast.

If you can incorporate the cooldown of icy rays into your rotation without too much waiting, then I think Icy Rays would perform better.

kalina311

If you are going to use anything on tab it for dps it would be disntigrate nothing else or repel ... or conduit of ice situation ally usually shield is on tab tho you cant do any damage or dps in pvp if you are dead and get cleared like a piece of paper

that being said icy rays does not benefit from far spell as chill strike does
however icy rays has more utilty as well you can mark invisible targets with it or delay casting the second ray to guarantee an interrupt
icy rays is not CC (crowd control )it is an interrupt therfore is useful on people with elven armor as well
also 2 stacks of chill

chill strike is a stun and therefore can be reduced by cc resistance

putting icyrays on tab immediately identifies you as a primary (less experienced) target

icy rays (not on tab) for the win :P

@c1k4ml3kc3
and omg no pvp cw worth his salt would use steal time in pvp you must be stuck in mod 2 or something when you could cancel it ..
there are many many ways to reveals hidden enemies
this post is full of mistakes and inaccuracies maybe a guide on what powers not to use that is all I am seeing here .. but i am at work now ..
@c1k4ml3kc3
500 posts and you are recommending steal time for pvp you must be joking
and even (if and big if) you did use it it would not be permanent slotted heck a ring of vision or reflex sight is more effective then that steal time HUUGE cooldown (for revealing hidden foes) and they only cost like 3k in the auction house great other post post about buffing certain powers but you missed the mark here you seem to be a pve cw

@khashir
the guide you are using is from an expert pve CW not PVP
and not once was repel even mentioned in this thread either

voidgift

Oh, my. And here I were, thinking I was a genius, using IR on tab. I miss mod 2 days when I actually had a chance to stay alive and rock pvp.

mamalion1234

kalina311 said:

If you are going to use anything on tab it for dps it would be disntigrate nothing else or repel ... or conduit of ice situation ally usually shield is on tab tho you cant do any damage or dps in pvp if you are dead and get cleared like a piece of paper

that being said icy rays does not benefit from far spell as chill strike does
however icy rays has more utilty as well you can mark invisible targets with it or delay casting the second ray to guarantee an interrupt
icy rays is not CC (crowd control )it is an interrupt therfore is useful on people with elven armor as well
also 2 stacks of chill

chill strike is a stun and therefore can be reduced by cc resistance

putting icyrays on tab immediately identifies you as a primary (less experienced) target

icy rays (not on tab) for the win :P

@c1k4ml3kc3
and omg no pvp cw worth his salt would use steal time in pvp you must be stuck in mod 2 or something when you could cancel it ..
there are many many ways to reveals hidden enemies
this post is full of mistakes and inaccuracies maybe a guide on what powers not to use that is all I am seeing here .. but i am at work now ..
@c1k4ml3kc3
500 posts and you are recommending steal time for pvp you must be joking
and even (if and big if) you did use it it would not be permanent slotted heck a ring of vision or reflex sight is more effective then that steal time HUUGE cooldown (for revealing hidden foes) and they only cost like 3k in the auction house great other post post about buffing certain powers but you missed the mark here you seem to be a pve cw

@khashir
the guide you are using is from an expert pve CW not PVP
and not once was repel even mentioned in this thread either

steal time on master to grand combat advantage to allies and speed;p oh we talk about pvp;p

kalina311

Either way he was suggesting not using it on mastery slot lol and suggested using it to flush out hidden enemies (non tabbed) show me a ranked pvp Cw using that power on tab in a premade (maybe on the initial rush to 2) and I will throw all my rank 12 on the ground : d pvp is about mostly single target powers and pushing people off node to cap it for Cw not AOEs that stun them on node

khashir

Since @kalina311 replied to all comments, I'll quote that post:

kalina311 said:

If you are going to use anything on tab it for dps it would be disntigrate nothing else or repel ... or conduit of ice situation ally usually shield is on tab tho you cant do any damage or dps in pvp if you are dead and get cleared like a piece of paper

that being said icy rays does not benefit from far spell as chill strike does
however icy rays has more utilty as well you can mark invisible targets with it or delay casting the second ray to guarantee an interrupt
icy rays is not CC (crowd control )it is an interrupt therfore is useful on people with elven armor as well
also 2 stacks of chill

chill strike is a stun and therefore can be reduced by cc resistance

putting icyrays on tab immediately identifies you as a primary (less experienced) target

icy rays (not on tab) for the win :P

@c1k4ml3kc3
and omg no pvp cw worth his salt would use steal time in pvp you must be stuck in mod 2 or something when you could cancel it ..
there are many many ways to reveals hidden enemies
this post is full of mistakes and inaccuracies maybe a guide on what powers not to use that is all I am seeing here .. but i am at work now ..
@c1k4ml3kc3
500 posts and you are recommending steal time for pvp you must be joking
and even (if and big if) you did use it it would not be permanent slotted heck a ring of vision or reflex sight is more effective then that steal time HUUGE cooldown (for revealing hidden foes) and they only cost like 3k in the auction house great other post post about buffing certain powers but you missed the mark here you seem to be a pve cw

@khashir
the guide you are using is from an expert pve CW not PVP
and not once was repel even mentioned in this thread either

Thanks so much for the thoughts, especially for taking the time to read all others and share your insights . I'm aiming for a PvE/PvP build, since I'm on my first toon, and can't really be respeccing.

Based on what I've read by you and others, this is the build I have in mind so far. My idea is to prioritize single target DPS (for boss fights, which are the core/most challenging endgame content), and PvP (which I really enjoyed in other mmos and would like to do here). If you have a chance, I would love some feedback on it--the 2 feats I'm missing (based on your suggestions), are Far Spell and Critical Power. I'm not sure what to drop for those, that wouldn't cost me single-target DPS. Does Icy Veins help with stealthed enemies, and is it worthwhile in PvP?

I didn't mention/ask about Repel in the other thread (or here) because I know that should always be slotted ;-). In keeping with my single target pve/pvp hybrid, I've maxed powers that overlap (I currently have 76 power points, total): Disintegrate, Repel (Sharpedge's guide recommended this for single target fights due to low cooldown, to get more spell twisting), Ray of Enfeeblement, along with the main PvE passives, Chilling presence and Storm Spell (I don't want to give up single target dps, since it's crucial in those tough fights). I'm currently putting points into Orb of Imposition and Arcane Presence for PvP, though it seems that I could just focus on CP and SS? I'm currently at 2.1K GS.

Anyway, thanks again, and if you get a chance, any suggestions are always welcome .

kalina311

@khashir

your Shield should have 4 ranks in it for starters (no brainer)
also depending on how many power point you have they added a quest chain in sharandar to earn additional power points you should be grinding that as well
at low gear score you @khashir you need icy veins control build to clear pve content and get boons you will not be able to take far spell till you can clear mobs faster and maybe have a bonding pet
assuming we are min maxing a hybrid pvp pve build

khashir

kalina311 said:

@khashir

your Shield should have 4 ranks in it for starters (no brainer)
also depending on how many power point you have they added a quest chain in sharandar to earn additional power points you should be grinding that as well
at low gear score you @khashir you need icy veins control build to clear pve content and get boons you will not be able to take far spell till you can clear mobs faster and maybe have a bonding pet
assuming we are min maxing a hybrid pvp pve build

Oh sweet, thanks @kalina311! At which GS do you think I can switch over to Far Spell? I have the 2K Crit mount, and am running a PvE SS Renegade build (with Spell Twisting, obv.). The idea is to switch over to the PvP Thaum build when I have higher GS.

Yes, the idea is to min-max the hybrid build, and I plan to get a bonding pet once I increase my GS as well.

kalina311

this also depends are you on xbox pc or ps4 as artifacts and certain things are ununbtainble or expensive on other platforms ..take for example the wheel of element arguably one of the best artifcats you can only get on PC until more recently

jano

Wheel of Elements is on ps4

armadeonx

and XBox

kalina311

until recently it was not on the loot table and they are more expensive as an artifact choice then getting it on PC
thanks for confirming tho

khashir

kalina311 said:

this also depends are you on xbox pc or ps4 as artifacts and certain things are ununbtainble or expensive on other platforms ..take for example the wheel of element arguably one of the best artifcats you can only get on PC until more recently

I'm on PC, though I still don't have Wheel. Could I switch after I get Wheel?

Thanks for the help!

kalina311

get the wheel regardless as all party members can benefit from its buffs

yes it will make a big difference for healing or dps mode
arguably one of the biggest bang for your buck items in the game and you just missed double RP lol

khashir

kalina311 said:

get the wheel regardless as all party members can benefit from its buffs

yes it will make a big difference for healing or dps mode
arguably one of the biggest bang for your buck items in the game and you just missed double RP lol

LOL, np! I'm on my first toon, so, I doubt I would've had enough AD to buy Wheel and refine it.

katamaster81899

khashir wrote: »

get the wheel regardless as all party members can benefit from its buffs

yes it will make a big difference for healing or dps mode
arguably one of the biggest bang for your buck items in the game and you just missed double RP lol

LOL, np! I'm on my first toon, so, I doubt I would've had enough AD to buy Wheel and refine it.

If AD is a problem, for PVE at least, a (free) alternative is the DC Class Sigil, it's not quite as good as the wheel, but can be a considerable boost to damage if used well. This prolly isnt true for PVP tho.​​

kalina311

not even close to the wheel LOL and yes this is a discussion about pvp

metikulous

@kalina311

Do you recommend 2pc prestige / 2piece warborn or full prestige?

What stats do you recommend for someone following Ironzerg's spellstorm renegade build in pvp? Not sure which pieces are considered the preferred choice when it comes to executioner vs duelist pvp gear. Lastly, artifact equipment choices for belt/cloak/weapons?

kalina311

contemplating a longer answer.....

warborn can be acquired easier for trade bar whereas prestige is harder to grind
normally i have both to swap to a differed ward if i am fighting against the most threatening class ot me (and proving the other team is not using drains then you need ap and stamina wards in all the time

also depending on your guild boons you chose armor piece to shore up a weakness or strengthen a strength
you also should swap artefacts like rings to accomplish this

I use a full prestige set with 2 full tenacity rings personally ..
there is no right or wrong piece but if you cant stay alive with lot of life steal hitpoints and tenacity
or high recovery and control then your build is not viable in pvp ... rule of thumb

lol artifact choices are simply too long to list i have like 15 of them lol I swap them on the fly from defensive mode lots of deflect to offensive mode lots of hit points armor pen and power ..

200k hitpoints and ~ 50% deflection defensive mode

solbergx

kalina311 said:

contemplating a longer answer.....

warborn can be acquired easier for trade bar whereas prestige is harder to grind
normally i have both to swap to a differed ward if i am fighting against the most threatening class ot me (and proving the other team is not using drains then you need ap and stamina wards in all the time

also depending on your guild boons you chose armor piece to shore up a weakness or strengthen a strength
you also should swap artefacts like rings to accomplish this

I use a full prestige set with 2 full tenacity rings personally ..
there is no right or wrong piece but if you cant stay alive with lot of life steal hitpoints and tenacity
or high recovery and control then your build is not viable in pvp ... rule of thumb

lol artifact choices are simply too long to list i have like 15 of them lol I swap them on the fly from defensive mode lots of deflect to offensive mode lots of hit points armor pen and power ..

200k hitpoints and ~ 50% deflection defensive mode

Yes kalina show us all of your secrets, you are in trance now, post you leet build and tactics, you cannot resist, you must obey!!

LOL

khashir

solbergx said:

kalina311 said:

contemplating a longer answer.....

warborn can be acquired easier for trade bar whereas prestige is harder to grind
normally i have both to swap to a differed ward if i am fighting against the most threatening class ot me (and proving the other team is not using drains then you need ap and stamina wards in all the time

also depending on your guild boons you chose armor piece to shore up a weakness or strengthen a strength
you also should swap artefacts like rings to accomplish this

I use a full prestige set with 2 full tenacity rings personally ..
there is no right or wrong piece but if you cant stay alive with lot of life steal hitpoints and tenacity
or high recovery and control then your build is not viable in pvp ... rule of thumb

lol artifact choices are simply too long to list i have like 15 of them lol I swap them on the fly from defensive mode lots of deflect to offensive mode lots of hit points armor pen and power ..

200k hitpoints and ~ 50% deflection defensive mode

Yes kalina show us all of your secrets, you are in trance now, post you leet build and tactics, you cannot resist, you must obey!!

LOL

ROFL! That would be quite nice

kalina311

Cw secrets 101 Be able to change your build on the fly within 8-10 seconds from one mode (defensive offensive controlly lifestealy etc ) to another without respecting ..
use auto run while in a match while going to another point ... to swap a gear piece / ring or a power or class feat

2 defensive potions or/and foods

2 offensive potions and/ or foods

practice doing this as fast as you can
get rid of any gear parts in your innovatory that you dont need for swaps in the bank
reorganise inv and align all potions/ food nice and neat together for when you die to quickly rebuff
put all gear and rings in the first top inventory bag

mamalion1234

kalina311 said:

Cw secrets 101 Be able to change your build on the fly within 8-10 seconds from one mode (defensive offensive controlly lifestealy etc ) to another without respecting ..
use auto run while in a match while going to another point ... to swap a gear piece / ring or a power or class feat

2 defensive potions or/and foods

2 offensive potions and/ or foods

practice doing this as fast as you can
get rid of any gear parts in your innovatory that you dont need for swaps in the bank
reorganise inv and align all potions/ food nice and neat together for when you die to quickly rebuff
put all gear and rings in the first top inventory bag

or switch the powers vs full control premades you know what i mean they deal no damage;p