Wrathfull determination and powerfull challenge

treesclimber

Several builds posted online are claiming wrathfull determination to add a certain amount of damage to the gwf no matter the determination metter, i spend some time today hiting dummies and there is no such damage increase, i tried sure strike and ibs, completly "naked" char and the 20% base damage those builds claim wrathfull determination gives to the gwf simply isn't there and it would be very noticeable if it was, another thing i noticed was the effectivness of the attacks to marked targets is 20% but with powerfull challange it remains unchanged, i spent some minutes hitting dummies and i did detect the 15% damage increase, has it always been a gwf increase and not effectivness?

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lazaroth666

Both Wrathful Determination and Powerful Challenge are working. Your base damage is increased, not your effectiveness. When you apply the mark with Daring Shout, you get an additional 20% damage (effectiveness) which is that 20% that you mentioned. This additional bonus doesn't appear in the tooltip.

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treesclimber

lazaroth666 said:

Both Wrathful Determination and Powerful Challenge are working. Your base damage is increased, not your effectiveness. When you apply the mark with Daring Shout, you get an additional 20% damage (effectiveness) which is that 20% that you mentioned. This additional bonus doesn't appear in the tooltip.

I ignored effectivness, i picked up act and hitted a dummies for 10 minutes (featless build) with sure strike, then ibs, with wrathfull determination and without it i did this by taking the determination always up, then expending it to make sure i wasnt measureing wrathfull determination with full determination after that i checked average hit and maximum hit and the diference was small, really small something like 32k ibs to 30k ibs average.

Edit: 1 detail i forgot i was using steadfast determination and daring shout to build determination and simulate battle, not sure if that impacts results.... i guess not but im not a gwf expert.

treesclimber

I had deleted the previous logs but i made a new one and still the same thing:
Details:



Naked GWF (yep, just in his underware xD), no boons, insignia bonuses, companions, feats
First log is relative to wrathfull determination + steadfast determination;
Second log is relative to bravery and steadfast determination;
If this is wrong please explain, i am maining my GWF now and i need to decide between weapon master or wrathfull determination.

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ijonum

I didn't notice any change, maybe because I have WD slotted all the time, and switching between Bravery/Destroyer But that's really interesting, I am going to respec soon and I might use this ocasion to test it as well.

BTW, this might be a noob question, but I have noticed the difference between MinHit stats and then between MaxHit stats - does it mean, that this game doesn't calculate final damage based on the random (Gaussian?) spread of the average dmg, but randomizes the difference between maximum damage minus minimum damage?

treesclimber

@xsayajinx1, probably they fixed it 1 or 2 patches ago, if you think about it the bonus is what should be exppected from a class feature, destroyer + focussed destroyer is the abberration that shouldn't exist.
@ijonum defenitivly not gaussian, i have more than 800 swings in the logs at least one of those would need to be extremly high it's probably just a rand like you said.

ijonum

@treesclimber I wonder what would be a result at, let's say, 2k swings. This should be more consistent statistically, but who's got the time...?

treesclimber

It would be the same, 400 hits it's more than enough to take conclusions, you can be all day hittinng thr dummies and even calling them names you wont find a special hit.

torghsthebroken

I say you try test with:


I find this image in this thread. Weapon has same min and max damage so easy to test with. Always gives same dmg unless change due buffs or something. Sword drops in CN I think as transmute art for weapon.

lazaroth666

Take a look:

Without WD, full determination:



With WD, full determination:



These numbers represent the highest amount of damage during certain time, each test with their respective setup. If we take the damage without WD (8,431.2) and add the expected 25% extra damage granted by WD rank IV, we will see that 8,431.2 + 25% = 10,539.

Now, according to the tooltip, the GWF's damage increases as the determination is being filled up:

Determination - Damage bonus

0% = 0%
25% = 3.125%
50% = 6.25%
75% = 9.375%
100% = 25% (12.5% * 2)

In the following two tests, the increasement in damage granted by WD up to 50% or half bar:

Constant damage done by Sure Strike, without WD and up to 50%. As we can see, the damage is always the same because there isn't any kind of bonus increasing it.



With WD slotted, starting in 0% determination and filling up to 50%, we can see a continuous increasement in the damage:



The highest value is 8,952 which is the closest to 50% determination. If we apply (1+ new dmg)/(1+old dmg) = we will obtain 6.18%. Very close to the expected 6.25%.

treesclimber

torghsthebroken#4706 said:

I say you try test with:


I find this image in this thread. Weapon has same min and max damage so easy to test with. Always gives same dmg unless change due buffs or something. Sword drops in CN I think as transmute art for weapon.

Thank you so much you just saved me hours in preview with things i always wanted to test, and the results are the same with wd on that weapon.
@lazaroth666 thx for the logs, WD can still have nice results with a IBS cast after a few swings of SS to get the 25% bonus but it's not easy to control, i'm going fo WM.

lazaroth666

With WD, you use IBS after activating unstoppable because Destroyer's Purpose gives 20% dmg to your encounters and 10% +/- granted by WD equals to 30% dmg bonus. You don't have to keep unstoppable full. Slotting WD doesn't change the usual playstyle of the GWF in any way.

ijonum

@lazaroth666 WD changes the playstyle a bit when you have the OH bonus for it (up to 20% Run Speed) as I do - then you can still run FAST even without Bravery slotted, and if you still slot it... Meep Meep! Makes it easier to clear groups of thrash, you get faster from one to another while keeping decent +25% damage as long as you determination is high enough. Or looking for ostorian relics, for example.

But there are disadvantages too: NO WAY to aim Goristro at the golden portal with it slotted