Allocating overload power points, redux?

khashir

Not sure if it's fair game to ask about stuff in Sharpedge's guide, but here goes:

After 70, he recommends maxing the passives, and then the AoE encounter powers. However, I'm finding that many of these powers get switched out when it really matters: DPSing a BBEG (Dragon, Valindra, Demo). So, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to allocate 4th points as follows:

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, CoI*, [etc.]

*A derivative question:

Many guides, not just Sharp's, recommend keeping CoI on tab even in single target fights. However, in MC, VT, and DF, for example, I even switch out CoI because of the burst damage needed to disrupt Valindra's grab, the ghost hand, and kill draconic empowerers. As in, CoI is great for building/keeping stacks of chill and proccing good stuff, but vs. those targets, you can't wait for either of these things. Is that reasonable, or is it mainly the product of my low GS (2K)? As in, maybe once I have higher GS, I can keep CoI on tab and still burst down those high-priority targets?

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, CoI, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, [etc.]

Thanks for your thoughts!

rjc9000

khashir said:

Not sure if it's fair game to ask about stuff in Sharpedge's guide, but here goes:

After 70, he recommends maxing the passives, and then the AoE encounter powers. However, I'm finding that many of these powers get switched out when it really matters: DPSing a BBEG (Dragon, Valindra, Demo). So, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to allocate 4th points as follows:

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, CoI*, [etc.]

*A derivative question:

Many guides, not just Sharp's, recommend keeping CoI on tab even in single target fights. However, in MC, VT, and DF, for example, I even switch out CoI because of the burst damage needed to disrupt Valindra's grab, the ghost hand, and kill draconic empowerers. As in, CoI is great for building/keeping stacks of chill and proccing good stuff, but vs. those targets, you can't wait for either of these things. Is that reasonable, or is it mainly the product of my low GS (2K)? As in, maybe once I have higher GS, I can keep CoI on tab and still burst down those high-priority targets?

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, CoI, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, [etc.]

Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm no CW expert, but here are my thoughts.

CP and Storm Spell go first, because both are a large part of your damage.
Disintegrate and CoI since I found that you're going to keep both, no matter who you're facing.
Personally, I would next put points into Ice Knife and Ray of E, for the single target fights.

After those core powers, you're going to want to place any more points in the AoEs you use (Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Oppressive Force, Steal Time). Once all of the main stuff that you use (class feats, encounters, dailies) have 4 points, then you can drop points into the at-will(s) that you use.

While having 4 points in the AoE powers help, I found that the mobs (where you'd use AoE powers) drop too quickly for me to notice/care. But on the bosses, that's when every bit of damage helps. So that's why I'd suggest putting points into things that you will almost always use/are a large portion of your overall DPS.

If you're talking burst damage on bosses, I found that, after all the buffs go up, using Ray of E -> Ice knife -> Disintegrate -> CoI -> At-will -> Chill strike -> Repeat deals quite a bit of damage.

As for the dungeon related stuff, assuming you're running Icy Veins, I'd suggest using Chill Strike -> Disintegrate when nearby Valindra/her hand, as the she/her hands don't have a lot of HP.

You said that you were 2,000 Ilvl, right? Your Crit chance might be a tad low, which means Storm Spell isn't hitting as much as you'd like it, and perhaps is the reason why you feel your burst damage is low.

khashir

Thanks,

rjc9000 said:

khashir said:

Not sure if it's fair game to ask about stuff in Sharpedge's guide, but here goes:

After 70, he recommends maxing the passives, and then the AoE encounter powers. However, I'm finding that many of these powers get switched out when it really matters: DPSing a BBEG (Dragon, Valindra, Demo). So, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to allocate 4th points as follows:

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, CoI*, [etc.]

*A derivative question:

Many guides, not just Sharp's, recommend keeping CoI on tab even in single target fights. However, in MC, VT, and DF, for example, I even switch out CoI because of the burst damage needed to disrupt Valindra's grab, the ghost hand, and kill draconic empowerers. As in, CoI is great for building/keeping stacks of chill and proccing good stuff, but vs. those targets, you can't wait for either of these things. Is that reasonable, or is it mainly the product of my low GS (2K)? As in, maybe once I have higher GS, I can keep CoI on tab and still burst down those high-priority targets?

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, CoI, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, [etc.]

Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm no CW expert, but here are my thoughts.

CP and Storm Spell go first, because both are a large part of your damage.
Disintegrate and CoI since I found that you're going to keep both, no matter who you're facing.
Personally, I would next put points into Ice Knife and Ray of E, for the single target fights.

After those core powers, you're going to want to place any more points in the AoEs you use (Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Oppressive Force, Steal Time). Once all of the main stuff that you use (class feats, encounters, dailies) have 4 points, then you can drop points into the at-will(s) that you use.

While having 4 points in the AoE powers help, I found that the mobs (where you'd use AoE powers) drop too quickly for me to notice/care. But on the bosses, that's when every bit of damage helps. So that's why I'd suggest putting points into things that you will almost always use/are a large portion of your overall DPS.

If you're talking burst damage on bosses, I found that, after all the buffs go up, using Ray of E -> Ice knife -> Disintegrate -> CoI -> At-will -> Chill strike -> Repeat deals quite a bit of damage.

As for the dungeon related stuff, assuming you're running Icy Veins, I'd suggest using Chill Strike -> Disintegrate when nearby Valindra/her hand, as the she/her hands don't have a lot of HP.

You said that you were 2,000 Ilvl, right? Your Crit chance might be a tad low, which means Storm Spell isn't hitting as much as you'd like it, and perhaps is the reason why you feel your burst damage is low.

Hi @rjc9000, thanks for your thoughts! Yes, that sounds like what I had in mind, but I'm new to the game, so, wanted to be sure.

About burst damage and Icy Veins: as per Sharpedge's recommendation, I'm running a SS Renegade Build with Spelltwisting. In the guide, he recommends the SS Thaum/Opp build (which has Icy Veins) after 3,000 ilvl (when base crit is high enough). The SS Ren/Thaum build makes up for low crit with Chilling Advantage and Chaos Magic, plus the added damage from Nightmare Wizardry and other good stuff.

Question: when you say "after all the buffs go up," does that include 6 stacks of chill?

rjc9000

khashir said:

Thanks,

rjc9000 said:

khashir said:

Not sure if it's fair game to ask about stuff in Sharpedge's guide, but here goes:

After 70, he recommends maxing the passives, and then the AoE encounter powers. However, I'm finding that many of these powers get switched out when it really matters: DPSing a BBEG (Dragon, Valindra, Demo). So, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to allocate 4th points as follows:

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, CoI*, [etc.]

*A derivative question:

Many guides, not just Sharp's, recommend keeping CoI on tab even in single target fights. However, in MC, VT, and DF, for example, I even switch out CoI because of the burst damage needed to disrupt Valindra's grab, the ghost hand, and kill draconic empowerers. As in, CoI is great for building/keeping stacks of chill and proccing good stuff, but vs. those targets, you can't wait for either of these things. Is that reasonable, or is it mainly the product of my low GS (2K)? As in, maybe once I have higher GS, I can keep CoI on tab and still burst down those high-priority targets?

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, CoI, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, [etc.]

Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm no CW expert, but here are my thoughts.

CP and Storm Spell go first, because both are a large part of your damage.
Disintegrate and CoI since I found that you're going to keep both, no matter who you're facing.
Personally, I would next put points into Ice Knife and Ray of E, for the single target fights.

After those core powers, you're going to want to place any more points in the AoEs you use (Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Oppressive Force, Steal Time). Once all of the main stuff that you use (class feats, encounters, dailies) have 4 points, then you can drop points into the at-will(s) that you use.

While having 4 points in the AoE powers help, I found that the mobs (where you'd use AoE powers) drop too quickly for me to notice/care. But on the bosses, that's when every bit of damage helps. So that's why I'd suggest putting points into things that you will almost always use/are a large portion of your overall DPS.

If you're talking burst damage on bosses, I found that, after all the buffs go up, using Ray of E -> Ice knife -> Disintegrate -> CoI -> At-will -> Chill strike -> Repeat deals quite a bit of damage.

As for the dungeon related stuff, assuming you're running Icy Veins, I'd suggest using Chill Strike -> Disintegrate when nearby Valindra/her hand, as the she/her hands don't have a lot of HP.

You said that you were 2,000 Ilvl, right? Your Crit chance might be a tad low, which means Storm Spell isn't hitting as much as you'd like it, and perhaps is the reason why you feel your burst damage is low.

Hi @rjc9000, thanks for your thoughts! Yes, that sounds like what I had in mind, but I'm new to the game, so, wanted to be sure.

About burst damage and Icy Veins: as per Sharpedge's recommendation, I'm running a SS Renegade Build with Spelltwisting. In the guide, he recommends the SS Thaum/Opp build (which has Icy Veins) after 3,000 ilvl (when base crit is high enough). The SS Ren/Thaum build makes up for low crit with Chilling Advantage and Chaos Magic, plus the added damage from Nightmare Wizardry and other good stuff.

Question: when you say "after all the buffs go up," does that include 6 stacks of chill?

Uh... I didn't realize you were rolling a SS Renegade. It slightly lowers your burst damage due to not having some nice Thaum feats, but the principle is still largely the same.

By "all the buffs", I mean "the entire team's buffs are up and their debuffs are on target". This includes your Chill stacks, but also involves the rest of the team's buff's and debuffs, such as ITF, Longstrider's, EmpBtS, or duckonaplate (SW Pillar of Power).

If you're running with a typical GF/DC/whatever team, as a general guideline, if you see EmpBtS and ITF on your buffbar, and you know you have 6 stacks of chill on target, that would be a good time to strike with your burst damage.

How fast the team can put up their buffs/debuff can vary from team to team, so you will need to play around with the timings of each team. In addition, you will also need to consider which classes you're running with, as each class has a different set of powers and timings that will change when you apply your burst DPS.

I'll quote Edgy (@thefabricant) on this subject.

"... To understand how to best utilize 1 class, you need to see a team of 5/10/25 as a big puzzle, with each member being a piece. Only once all the pieces are working together, does the full picture emerge."

-Sharpedge's CW Guide, "Party Synergy" section

khashir

rjc9000 said:

khashir said:

Thanks,

rjc9000 said:

khashir said:

Not sure if it's fair game to ask about stuff in Sharpedge's guide, but here goes:

After 70, he recommends maxing the passives, and then the AoE encounter powers. However, I'm finding that many of these powers get switched out when it really matters: DPSing a BBEG (Dragon, Valindra, Demo). So, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to allocate 4th points as follows:

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, CoI*, [etc.]

*A derivative question:

Many guides, not just Sharp's, recommend keeping CoI on tab even in single target fights. However, in MC, VT, and DF, for example, I even switch out CoI because of the burst damage needed to disrupt Valindra's grab, the ghost hand, and kill draconic empowerers. As in, CoI is great for building/keeping stacks of chill and proccing good stuff, but vs. those targets, you can't wait for either of these things. Is that reasonable, or is it mainly the product of my low GS (2K)? As in, maybe once I have higher GS, I can keep CoI on tab and still burst down those high-priority targets?

Chilling Presence, Storm Spell, CoI, Disintegrate, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, Ray of Enfeeblement, [etc.]

Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm no CW expert, but here are my thoughts.

CP and Storm Spell go first, because both are a large part of your damage.
Disintegrate and CoI since I found that you're going to keep both, no matter who you're facing.
Personally, I would next put points into Ice Knife and Ray of E, for the single target fights.

After those core powers, you're going to want to place any more points in the AoEs you use (Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Oppressive Force, Steal Time). Once all of the main stuff that you use (class feats, encounters, dailies) have 4 points, then you can drop points into the at-will(s) that you use.

While having 4 points in the AoE powers help, I found that the mobs (where you'd use AoE powers) drop too quickly for me to notice/care. But on the bosses, that's when every bit of damage helps. So that's why I'd suggest putting points into things that you will almost always use/are a large portion of your overall DPS.

If you're talking burst damage on bosses, I found that, after all the buffs go up, using Ray of E -> Ice knife -> Disintegrate -> CoI -> At-will -> Chill strike -> Repeat deals quite a bit of damage.

As for the dungeon related stuff, assuming you're running Icy Veins, I'd suggest using Chill Strike -> Disintegrate when nearby Valindra/her hand, as the she/her hands don't have a lot of HP.

You said that you were 2,000 Ilvl, right? Your Crit chance might be a tad low, which means Storm Spell isn't hitting as much as you'd like it, and perhaps is the reason why you feel your burst damage is low.

Hi @rjc9000, thanks for your thoughts! Yes, that sounds like what I had in mind, but I'm new to the game, so, wanted to be sure.

About burst damage and Icy Veins: as per Sharpedge's recommendation, I'm running a SS Renegade Build with Spelltwisting. In the guide, he recommends the SS Thaum/Opp build (which has Icy Veins) after 3,000 ilvl (when base crit is high enough). The SS Ren/Thaum build makes up for low crit with Chilling Advantage and Chaos Magic, plus the added damage from Nightmare Wizardry and other good stuff.

Question: when you say "after all the buffs go up," does that include 6 stacks of chill?

Uh... I didn't realize you were rolling a SS Renegade. It slightly lowers your burst damage due to not having some nice Thaum feats, but the principle is still largely the same.

By "all the buffs", I mean "the entire team's buffs are up and their debuffs are on target". This includes your Chill stacks, but also involves the rest of the team's buff's and debuffs, such as ITF, Longstrider's, EmpBtS, or duckonaplate (SW Pillar of Power).

If you're running with a typical GF/DC/whatever team, as a general guideline, if you see EmpBtS and ITF on your buffbar, and you know you have 6 stacks of chill on target, that would be a good time to strike with your burst damage.

How fast the team can put up their buffs/debuff can vary from team to team, so you will need to play around with the timings of each team. In addition, you will also need to consider which classes you're running with, as each class has a different set of powers and timings that will change when you apply your burst DPS.

I'll quote Edgy (@thefabricant) on this subject.

"... To understand how to best utilize 1 class, you need to see a team of 5/10/25 as a big puzzle, with each member being a piece. Only once all the pieces are working together, does the full picture emerge."

-Sharpedge's CW Guide, "Party Synergy" section

LOL, yeah, I'll be running Ren until I hit 3K GS, as per SE's guide. So, I would lose some burst damage, but presumably gain higher sustainable DPS.

Thanks again for the thoughts .