The change to TC needs to be addressed.

qtpiekay

Ive been a sw main since i started playing. Ive seen how broken the puppet build was and i supported the nerf to it. I also supported the change of tyranical threat to curse. It brough hellbringer fury back in the game. I fully support the fix to the broken murderous flame feat. But i fail to understand the further nerf of TC when now we actually are more gear dependant than before and have to use that daily startegically in order to do competitive dps vs gwf and trs.
I have followed all the great sw builds and players on pc and xbox for years and have great respect for Fernu and the likes my mistake is i never chimed in before and added to the discusion before.
I hope the Devs listen to us and not brush this under the carpet i still have faith in them.

kallephi

I did some CN runs yesterday and today. I'm having a hard time to do the same damage as 3k HRs and CWs.
I know GS doesn't mean everything, but I'm sure of my capabilities and I'm sure I'm able to outdps a 3k toon because I'm 3.7k.
These guys have no rank 10+ enchantments, no reinforcement jewels or kits, no legendary artifact gear (which means more offense enchant slots for cloak/neck and weapon). That means I have more stats and gear than them, I should be able to do way more damage than them.
I didn't do a run with a decent GWF yet, and I must say I'm afraid he will be able to do double my damage, if not more.

I know TC was bugged, but, for the 1000th time, TC was what was making us comparable to the other classes. If they fixed TC they should have changed other stuff in our class.
I felt pity for the majority of TRs because their dps was nothing compared to ours and to gwfs, and now I feel the same pity for my own class.

I don't want to waste my time making logs, videos, screenshots to show the devs that our class is underperforming, they are supposed to know what happens in the game and how classes are performing, it's not my job, it's theirs.

They should listen to us. We are not comparable to the other classes, we are BELOW the other classes if you put 1 SW and 1 player from another class together and they have the same ilvl and same playing capabilities (good players)

I'm ok with TC fix, just give us some balance, revamp our class!

merhunesdagon1

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

denvald

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

kallephi

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

merhunesdagon1

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

I will do some testing on this with my soulbinder fury with full r12 bondings. But from what you are saying, it wont be much of a difference compared with hb fury...what sw will probably need is 40k+, 20k+ crit power to be able to even compete with other dps classes, and thats without bondings....guess it is time for me to switch for brutals-_-

merhunesdagon1

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

schietindebux

merhunesdagon1 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

Then you obviously did something wrong in the past, sry
My effectiveness dropped from 200+ down to 100+ and thats huge
I could stand against GWF and every other striker class, that´s over by now.

kallephi

schietindebux said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

Then you obviously did something wrong in the past, sry
My effectiveness dropped from 200+ down to 100+ and thats huge
I could stand against GWF and every other striker class, that´s over by now.

Same here bro. It was funny that yesterday I outdpsed a 3.3 TR just because of my owlbear (yes it still works with SW), if it wasn't for my owlbear I'd have lost. He was damn good though, but still, I can't stand being outdpsed by people with less gear than me even if they are very good because I know of my capabilities. They just destroyed our class...

merhunesdagon1

kallephi#0836 said:

schietindebux said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

Then you obviously did something wrong in the past, sry
My effectiveness dropped from 200+ down to 100+ and thats huge
I could stand against GWF and every other striker class, that´s over by now.

Same here bro. It was funny that yesterday I outdpsed a 3.3 TR just because of my owlbear (yes it still works with SW), if it wasn't for my owlbear I'd have lost. He was damn good though, but still, I can't stand being outdpsed by people with less gear than me even if they are very good because I know of my capabilities. They just destroyed our class...

It really all depends on your build, as I said before, I am a soulbinder fury sw. From the other 4k sbs ive talked to so far, they have only notice a 10-15% loss. I really dont know how it would be with hb fury, as hb fury, you are not getting the full potential of dps. And i honestly dont know how it would be if you didnt have owlbear lol... I would not choose PoP over SS and i would not choose gate over IS, esp when it comes to dps. but that is just me, my way of playing. perhaps i will switch to hb and try to understand what you two have complaining, but so far, ive not seen that big of a difference for sb fury.

merhunesdagon1

schietindebux said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

Then you obviously did something wrong in the past, sry
My effectiveness dropped from 200+ down to 100+ and thats huge
I could stand against GWF and every other striker class, that´s over by now.

From the 4k SB Ive talked with, maxed pet ratings, pet rings, bondings, etc...they are still able to outdps gwf, for hb fury, Im really not sure how that will work out. as i said b4, im not hb fury, im sb fury. as striker class, you will take anything you can to have max dps and potential. I honestly cannot see Gates Doing more dmg overall compared with IS, and PoP compared with Soulscortch? lmfao.

merhunesdagon1

merhunesdagon1 said:

schietindebux said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Epic Demon3.6 gearscore, Soulbinder Fury, Infernal Paragons:

Good to see you here Ly'saaera. I have been busy irl atm...I havent had to chance to log on since the 10.5 changes, but this sounds pretty ridiculous. They dont get tired of nerfing sw to the ground. They act as though they dont care about the class anymore. instead of continuosly nerfing sw, just remove the class altogether. or go for a revamp. This is not "class balancing" as they said during livestream. -_-

I agree, they should know what happens in the game and how classes are performing. GWF has been outperforming other dps classes since module 6, CW had a slight boost but are still imo, dealing lower dmg than gwf at higher lvls. GF, a tank class is dealing more dmg than any dps class, though i've only skimmed through patch notes, so im not fully aware of ALL the changes. This has been a trend since module 6, a large part of the player base abandoned the game....I may be considering doing the same if this continues with SW. I love the class, deleted my GF for a sw way back when it 1st came out. its the only class I really play and enjoy playing, but I dont want to underperform when compared to other dps classes

Cryptic, you are basically making our class useless and relegating it to a support class, part of the reason I didnt go with hb after the previous rework of the class. we are meant to be a striker class, not support, not healer, but STRIKER!!

1. 
   

Man. It's annoying how I spent hours in my toon, trying to make it perfect, and then a 3k ALT with rank 9s, no reinforcements, no decent companion gear, no legendary artifact gear, no mythic artifact, does the same dps as me. You know? I have a GF, when I give her my brutals she reaches 3k gs, I don't invest anything on her. It's just like that, a guy passes enchants to another undergeared toon, goes to a dungeon with me and then do the same dps as me (the one who invested a lot of time farming, upgrading enchants, making reinforcements, putting artifacts on mythic, etc). These devs have no sense of balance...

denvald said:

I've ran alot of etos before the change, and after the change.

A rough approximation is that I lost half (50%) of my total dps overnight with the patch.

That's what I said in another topic and the guy believes TC fix is only 10% dps loss lol

so based on the few edemo and elol runs I have done, SB Fury only took maybe a 20% loss in dps. What it is isn't so much of the TC change, but the way CD and Tc interact, often times doubling the effect of CD when TC is cast more than once. Im not done yet, I still have to run a few T2 before I can say without a doubt, but 50-70% is not the way it looks to me...

Then you obviously did something wrong in the past, sry
My effectiveness dropped from 200+ down to 100+ and thats huge
I could stand against GWF and every other striker class, that´s over by now.

From the 4k SB Ive talked with, maxed pet ratings, pet rings, bondings, etc...they are still able to outdps gwf, for hb fury, Im really not sure how that will work out. as i said b4, im not hb fury, im sb fury. as striker class, you will take anything you can to have max dps and potential. I honestly cannot see Gates Doing more dmg overall compared with IS, and PoP compared with Soulscortch? lmfao.

i kinda have to correct myself there... single target maybe SB can compete. For multiple targets, pop plus hadar plus FB plus hadar. SB can use a third AoE after an arms plus fb plus arms in that order, but really im looking at curse bite or dt, which cant make up for that rotation being buffed by pop.

schietindebux

Maybe someone may show us a GWF-SB fury run to compare the performance of both, sure you first will have to find one at BIS with knoweledge wich button to press.
I would be glad to be proved wrong, beside the fact, that a drop in effectiveness from 200+ down to 100+ can´t result in a 15% damageloss. This only indicates that something went wrong in the past or they just did not monitor their damage correctly.
My GWF at 2.9k IL deals >1 millionhits with IBS, and he has green insignia, low level companion and low level mounts beside missing the complete new content/boons, incl. WoD last 3 boons.

merhunesdagon1

schietindebux said:

Maybe someone may show us a GWF-SB fury run to compare the performance of both, sure you first will have to find one at BIS with knoweledge wich button to press.
I would be glad to be proved wrong, beside the fact, that a drop in effectiveness from 200+ down to 100+ can´t result in a 15% damageloss. This only indicates that something went wrong in the past or they just did not monitor their damage correctly.
My GWF at 2.9k IL deals >1 millionhits with IBS, and he has green insignia, low level companion and low level mounts beside missing the complete new content/boons, incl. WoD last 3 boons.

I would be glad to provide such a video, as I have just ran cn with a 4k cw, maxed pet rating, 3x12bondings, same enchant-trans dread, etc, and there was only a 10% difference in dps. he outdps me by about 7mil dmg. that does not sound like a 50% dmg loss to me,i am 3.6il, i am even running with 1x r12 bonding, 1xr11 bonding, and 1xgreater bonding. really it all depends on what build that cw was running with. thats gonna change soon though....

My rotation was FB+Arms+KF, keeping IS up mostly on trash mobs and TT on bosses while switching between Soulscorcth and FB sometimes on bosses, though I have no p[rblem using FB on bosses, its really better for trash...

nyghoma

I'm 4.3 GS HB SW with all BiS gear (Minus one +5 ring of brutality), and I can tell you from testing I lost 50% of my overall dmg output. I have other dps classes with 2.5-3k GS doing similar dmg. What the feck was Cryptic thinking? This was a tremendous nerf. This wasn't balancing. This was a crippling. I can guarantee the devs didn't do an ounce of testing. And whoever passed this to live is an idiot. They're using the live servers to test knee-jerk modifications.

I don't mind so much a tweaking to TC, but this is just gross negligence. It was a dumb and lazy coarse in attempting balance. To be perfectly honest, with the money I invested in this toon, and seeing how Cryptic pulled this garbage, I'd never invest another red cent in this game. Nor should anyone else. They have done NOTHING to mitigate the dmg loss. It sickens me. There is no purpose to inviting a SW to a team anymore. They're not good at dmg, they're not good at support, they're not good at control. They are now paper tigers.

Great job in bending over loyal customers Cryptic. Your class balancing team should get fired.

merhunesdagon1

nyghoma said:

I'm 4.3 GS HB SW with all BiS gear (Minus one +5 ring of brutality), and I can tell you from testing I lost 50% of my overall dmg output. I have other dps classes with 2.5-3k GS doing similar dmg. What the feck was Cryptic thinking? This was a tremendous nerf. This wasn't balancing. This was a crippling. I can guarantee the devs didn't do an ounce of testing. And whoever passed this to live is an idiot. They're using the live servers to test knee-jerk modifications.

I don't mind so much a tweaking to TC, but this is just gross negligence. It was a dumb and lazy coarse in attempting balance. To be perfectly honest, with the money I invested in this toon, and seeing how Cryptic pulled this garbage, I'd never invest another red cent in this game. Nor should anyone else. They have done NOTHING to mitigate the dmg loss. It sickens me. There is no purpose to inviting a SW to a team anymore. They're not good at dmg, they're not good at support, they're not good at control. They are now paper tigers.

Great job in bending over loyal customers Cryptic. Your class balancing team should get fired.

Go with SB Fury then. from what Ive seen, it wasnt so brutal for them. from the 4k sb ive talked to theyve only noticed a 10-15% loss which is manageable.... I dont know where that 50% loss in dps is coming from. Ive only heard HBfurys complaining about the TC nerf...

tom

@merhunesdagon1
the 50% dps loss only ppl notice who knew how TC was working and used in the right way.
TBH for me it was more like a 70% dps loss in singletarget in some groups i run with even more.
My KF now hits like 1-2 maybe 3 mio thats the most when before i would hit like 6-10 mio everytime with spikes up to 18 mio.

fizbar

@merhunesdagon1
Go with SB Fury then. from what Ive seen, it wasnt so brutal for them. from the 4k sb ive talked to theyve only noticed a 10-15% loss which is manageable.... I dont know where that 50% loss in dps is coming from. Ive only heard HBfurys complaining about the TC nerf...

How much dmg was your Soul scorch hitting before the nerf then after?

It sucks to finally figure out your main class after so much time, congratulate cryptic on fixing it, then have them break it again.

As an SB your Action points prolly stayed at 100% so you could have your spirits up, slamming a tyranncle/warlock cursed target as you unloaded with soul scorch...now what ya got?

As with this nerf to hellbringer it is crippling as we essentially lose a slot to Pillar, and really only have our at wills and 2 encounters to unload with. Now with KF and what ever your other encounter you use hitting for %50 less is unforgivable...best fix for hellbringer now is honestly to let POP be a proc, then give us back our third encounter slot.

Seeing as how they hate TC so much. It now replaces your warlocks curse, and all the buffs fury gives to warlocks curse, for just a basic +20% Dailyskill debuff.... TC is now useless.

diloul31

I would really apreciate if someone could tell for sure if after mod 10.5, SB Fury is pulling more dps than HB Fury.

There is enought HB fury builds mod 10 ( Fernuu/ Garlaax) but i'd really like to see a SB fury vs HB Fury opinion past 10.5

My main concern is about POP doing 20% more damage to everything spell you cast, is it really better than having 3 encounters as a SB fury ?


I actually use HB fury but to be honest i hate POP, while i'm in i can't see some aoe reds marks on the ground...
For exemple in elol, when the twin scorpions or the dragon make rocks drop on you, i die because the green of POP cover the reds marks ( --___-- )*
Thanks in advance

schietindebux

I can guarantee, that i deal better damage on single target with a SB than a HB setup, even before mod 10.5, but maybe I am a noob playing Hellbringer.
I never achieved 600-700k average hits with KF in an FBI and miss demonlords set and I got no owlbear.
So I would say it´s gear dependant?
Tom wrote about 17 mio hits with KF, no clue how to achieve this an how many power he can stack since TC was said to scale with your power, but maybe he runs in a maxbuff group and maybe also someone runs a broken artifact (chromatic storm token, and other stuff?)?

About those disagreement, concerning the heavy nerf of TC combined with a significant loss of damage 40-60%, I can´t understand how to come to other conclusions. Those player must have failed desperatly in the mods before.
It´s breaking the class to some degree and I can´t imagine how to stand against other striker-classes like GWF/CW/Hunter (the ones, that run dps setups and know their class).
I met some pretty good performing CW´s so far, like Sharpedge and Tehroa (no clue, frenchman I guess) and some more I forgot, who will stomp my warlock into dust by doing a competition run, but those CW´s are rare.
I met some few superb performing GWF´s who will do the same and few Warlocks also. But in the sum I am 100% sure that the average warlock on PC is not competetive the way things are in mod 10.5, being a pure striker.

nyghoma

merhunesdagon1 said:

nyghoma said:

I'm 4.3 GS HB SW with all BiS gear (Minus one +5 ring of brutality), and I can tell you from testing I lost 50% of my overall dmg output. I have other dps classes with 2.5-3k GS doing similar dmg. What the feck was Cryptic thinking? This was a tremendous nerf. This wasn't balancing. This was a crippling. I can guarantee the devs didn't do an ounce of testing. And whoever passed this to live is an idiot. They're using the live servers to test knee-jerk modifications.

I don't mind so much a tweaking to TC, but this is just gross negligence. It was a dumb and lazy coarse in attempting balance. To be perfectly honest, with the money I invested in this toon, and seeing how Cryptic pulled this garbage, I'd never invest another red cent in this game. Nor should anyone else. They have done NOTHING to mitigate the dmg loss. It sickens me. There is no purpose to inviting a SW to a team anymore. They're not good at dmg, they're not good at support, they're not good at control. They are now paper tigers.

Great job in bending over loyal customers Cryptic. Your class balancing team should get fired.

Go with SB Fury then. from what Ive seen, it wasnt so brutal for them. from the 4k sb ive talked to theyve only noticed a 10-15% loss which is manageable.... I dont know where that 50% loss in dps is coming from. Ive only heard HBfurys complaining about the TC nerf...

Yeah, sure they didn't notice the hit in dmg b/c they weren't topping the paingiver charts to begin with. SB builds weren't viable as a pure striker. Before the nerf, I could roll with the rest of the 3.7k+ gs crowd of CWs, GWFs, and TRs who dedicated themselves to pure dps. Now SWs are a total joke.

I guess now that I'll be playing much less, I have the time to point out all of the rackets this game is using to milk the player base, so more players don't make the same mistakes I made actually investing in a toon. Cryptic now has me on a warpath.

schietindebux

diloul31 said:

I would really apreciate if someone could tell for sure if after mod 10.5, SB Fury is pulling more dps than HB Fury.



There is enought HB fury builds mod 10 ( Fernuu/ Garlaax) but i'd really like to see a SB fury vs HB Fury opinion past 10.5



My main concern is about POP doing 20% more damage to everything spell you cast, is it really better than having 3 encounters as a SB fury ?





I actually use HB fury but to be honest i hate POP, while i'm in i can't see some aoe reds marks on the ground...

For exemple in elol, when the twin scorpions or the dragon make rocks drop on you, i die because the green of POP cover the reds marks ( --___-- )*

Thanks in advance

So I just respecced to Hellbringer from SB and have to confess on a single target.
No matter what I do, HB deals better on single target-Dummy for about 25-30% (I got no owlbear and no demonlordset), it is significant I can´t deny it. I had no 100% critrate setup, and I also run only a perfect, a lesser and a greater bonding, since I swapped lot´s of stones on another char.
Perfect dread beats perfect vorp slightly in my setup and Gates off hell beats Brood definitely, TC is a horrible dps killer (worse than WC buff) on single target.
Maybe it´s due to TC nerf ... my SB is at 105% effectiveness more or less. Or maybe I just suck either at SB and HB setup.
Hellbringer got the better selfbuffs from PoP+FoE with offhand feat buffing for 24% damage+18%.
I run FoE+ACC. Spamming HR all time was equal or better than spamming 1xHR+4x HoB. So no benefit from HoB in my case and it feels clumsy to use HoB.
Not sure what happens in a buffer party though. Let´s ask kallephi and tom.

diloul31

null
Thank you very much for your input on the matter, really apreciate it !

I don't have the luxury to spec and respec at the moment otherwise i would try different things so i read with attention everything you fellow warlocks have to say on the matter.

schietindebux

Order of the third eye gives an account bound respec at rank 10, you have to work a bit for it though... omg they gonna nerf it next patch

russ4ua17

SB was always better than HB. You shouldn't even need ACT to figure that out.

diloul31

null
I'm mot sure what you meant here...
Don't assume everyone is playing that game since years, i'm a ps4 player.
And correct me if i'm wrong but POP isn't was it use to be right ?

merhunesdagon1

russ4ua17#7677 said:

SB was always better than HB. You shouldn't even need ACT to figure that out.

This guy is comparing gates to brood and wonder why he was underperforming as a SB.....

tom

russ4ua17#7677 said:

SB was always better than HB. You shouldn't even need ACT to figure that out.

lols
do u know that the fastest ever FBI run so far was with a HB Fury as only dps?
in Mod 10. HB was clearly superior to SB

merhunesdagon1

tom#6998 said:

russ4ua17#7677 said:

SB was always better than HB. You shouldn't even need ACT to figure that out.

lols
do u know that the fastest ever FBI run so far was with a HB Fury as only dps?
in Mod 10. HB was clearly superior to SB

As if everyone who has done FBI recorded their run times...lol. just because HB performs a little better on mobs, doesn't mean they are superior to SB. with the right setup, Ive seen 4k SB outdps 4kgwf, im not saying HB couldnt do it either. But SB still has plenty of potential when comparing both builds. I am in the process of maxing out a SB right now. when I do a few runs, running act, etc...then i will go hb fury and see how much dps difference there actually is. though i have a long way to go. 1 more r12 bonding, better pet rings. sounds pricey but do-able..