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What happens when a BiS CW-Oppressor meets a BiS DPS-CW ?
nezdin
Member Posts: 259 Arc User
Assume that:
(1) both are built with the same defensive capabilities (deflect, lifesteal or whatever);
(2) DPS-CW has Trans EB;
(3) Oppressor has silvery enchants (full recovery) in offensive slots; DPS-CW has something other than recovery in offensive slots.
-Can Oppressor keep DPS-CW controlled/far away with his superior recovery (i.e. spam many more repels and EFs etc) or will DPS-CW eventually kill him ? Also, in this case is negation or EB better for Oppressor ?
(1) both are built with the same defensive capabilities (deflect, lifesteal or whatever);
(2) DPS-CW has Trans EB;
(3) Oppressor has silvery enchants (full recovery) in offensive slots; DPS-CW has something other than recovery in offensive slots.
-Can Oppressor keep DPS-CW controlled/far away with his superior recovery (i.e. spam many more repels and EFs etc) or will DPS-CW eventually kill him ? Also, in this case is negation or EB better for Oppressor ?
Nezdin (DC)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
0
Comments
I played this for 5 months and loved it for the ability to positively affect the match, which is won by CAPPING NODES HAMSTER. Another reason was that I could survive very well during PuG matchups AND have a decent low-crit PVE CW using the baby owlbear. That's getting nerfed next patch so I switched to Thaum so I could switch out to (once again) meh-DECENT dps in pve.
So far in pvp it's been okay, taking me a little while to adjust to the differences in playstyle. Maybe renegade is better, but mostly I see them dying in droves to the top CW's (like Kalina).
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
(off topic, but a really cool trick, as an oppressor, is to charge up arcane stacks>fire off a Maestrom O' Chaos>repel them with a greater than 45 deg angle, and see if you can clear them off the Hotenow platforms down to the rock thingy
You have to choose, or better yet, try out different builds on preview then go with a guildie to IWD open pvp grounds, and test it. I hardly ever copy other's builds, which is one reason I'm BiS and suck sometimes
In short, if you need specific insight on a competitive build versus other CW's, ask one of the Synergy or Essence of Aggression CW's, they are usually pretty helpful if you ask intelligent questions. The forums are unfortunately barren these days when discussing pvp "builds" (IMO).
Good luck and Cheers,
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
I am interested in switching to a DPS PVP CW and am wondering what top DPS CW's look like in this scenario?
Is there a consensus on which tree offers the best 1v1 potential?
Mof vs spell storm,
low enchant cw vs high enchant
pure pvp spec vs hybrid pve pvp
glass cannon . vs moderate to high survivability
pure opressor vs hybrid thum / renegade builds
players ability to adjust from damage mode to defensive mode on the fly (within a few seconds )
people always ask for a build set in stone where the wise cw will adjust build/powers according to match and enemy comp
also switching guild boons on the fly as well
a cw with high armor pen power that is buffed from pally or cleric or another cw or a gf will melt another cw
this is situational of corse
normally in a match the first 30 seconds of 1 v 1 dont count because of the healing weapon going online and then help form the other team usually arrives most high end 1 v 1 cw battles are stale mates
going full dps is a risky move and thats when many of my low deaths counts occur ( 8 deaths last mod (no lion) 950 kills)
I play thum main reason being spells have extra range so more of a buffer and can reach an oppressor in range before he can reach me ..also kill fleeing enemies with more chance getting that last hit in
I watch all these videos of so called cw experts and I have to laugh cause you dont see them changing powers or gear or using different items during the match to reflect the situation
also a note about jumping .. an expert cw will ALWAYS jump to get better battlefield postions (not waste a dodge and to avoid long casting animation of certain spells . and to jump cast and spam at wills while someone is fleeing
you do not need a macro programmed to do this and it would not work properly cause timeing has to be exact in relation to the situation and cooldowns.. also jumping to use the terrain to your advantage and to misdirect the direction you may be heading in like in any sport. it is important to rememebr that you can dodge or jump diagonally as well most do not do that either
maybe I will write the definitive PVP cw guide!! questions are welcome \
FYI I am a negation user and I do not use a lion some so called top end cw had hundreds of deaths even with a lion
hey folks feel free to check out my other posts on deflection and other PVP CW related issues
I agree a lot with what you are saying, especially how important fight IQ is when it comes to playing the CW (and I'm sure other classes) in PVP. BTW jump casting ROF is not possible on PS4 due to awkward button placement.
I believe I play the class well and have good fight IQ however I ask for build advice for other reasons.
On the PS4 we do not have access to a preview server or ACT and experimenting with builds in game is very expensive. Why try recreate the wheel when the PC players have had time to perfect it right?
I like how you have confirmed the usefulness with farspell. My first run at DPS followed that strategy and I also took the feat that gives extra damage on Icy Rays whilst also slotting it in Mastery. The thing that frustrates me is that Icy Rays is not considered a single target encounter and I had to go into range anyway unless i sloted Entangling Force or ROA which I felt were a little limited, especially when facing Elven Battle uses.
One thing I liked about Oppressor was that it's pretty clear that Recharge speed and surviviorbility were good choices to focus stats allowing little to no worry about Arp/Crit or Power due to them not aiding in control.
The reason why I'm looking to understand which tree is better as DPS is because it's not as clear and I don't want to be losing AD on building enchantments around the wrong tree (for example a renegade would not need to stack as much Crit as a thum). In my mind an oppressor has less to worry about in the sense that they are not built to kill but to control. A DPS however is built to kill but cannot forgo survivorbility or control thus needing more of a spread in stats.
I hope this makes sense, in any case I love the CW class and PVP and would appreciate any guidance from top players such as yourself.
Some things that have been bugging me are,
Can MOF offer more damage in either tree over having Stormspell?
Is lifesteal worth stacking over deflect considering the damage output increase over Oppressor?
Would you stack more arp, lifesteal and Crit as a thum considering rene has a capstone that can buff these? And if so with rene needing less is incresing power and deflect/hp the best choices?
Is there any case for slotting EoTS over chilling presence or storm spell?
Is feytouched considered BIS for thurm? What is considered best for Rene?
And the biggest thing that bugs me is the rene capstone. Can a thurm dish out enough damage to an equally geared Rene to overcome the healing they can receive from their capstone?
Also, I use Negation however I sometimes have issues with trappers. Is Elven Battle good in a DPS CW vs a DPS CW scenario?
Sorry for all the questions but I am excited to talk to other CWs rather than mulling things over in my mind all the time.
1 you are not using it on tab and
2 to take advantage of the cool down you have to hit two targets
3 better off using those feat point to dip into the renegade tree to get extra action point on crit which translates to more dailies which translates to more damage
my default combo is shield on tab icy rays (repel or roe of enfeeble and always disintegrate
icy rays is an interrupt not Cc and is not held back by the cc resistance of elven battle
icy ray repel ice knife disintigrate is the combo making it harder to block
more later
there is never a case to slot EoTS ever
the healing the renegade gets from capstone first of all is a chance of a chance and not reliable 1 in 3 chance
to get healing extra damage or extra armor pen which is bugged and does not work so only 2 of the 3 work
also players get way more healing from water weapons and mount insignia bonuses then the healing from chaotic growth not even worth considering comparatively
you need to click on my name and look at other threads i wrote on deflect more to come
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Today I have read through all your posts (very productive work day
Correct me if I am wrong however I think these are the things I should have gathered from your posts to help me to be a smarter, tankier, DPS CW.
Smarter
Always fight strategically, for example: use the terrain to our advantage, putting obstacles between yourself and the enemy / keep enemies at distance and out of retaliation range with the feat Far Spell and the Encounter Repel / change encounter powers and guild boons on the fly depending on the enemies strengths and weaknesses on the battlefield. Use jumps to break casting animations / try to not fall into a pattern of dodging in the same direction all the time.
Tankier
Focus on Deflect, this will help mitigate burst damage and CC. Use Maelstrom or Ogma's Token of Free movement to beak CC instead of using Elven Battle / Instead use Negation which works as a substitute for Defense and increases incoming healing from Mount insignia's and Drowned Weapons / Focus on HP + Healing/mount insignia's (Heal on deflect, stun, under 50% health) for your self healing / Use as much Tenacity as possible aside from belt and neck / Shield on Tab.
DPS
Thaumaturge Tree / Dip into Renegade feat Critical Power to use daily more often and perhaps Severe Reaction or Bitter Cold from Oppressor Tree / Chain attacks like the example Icy Rays-Repel-Ice Knife-Disintegrate.
If the above is accurate I have a few questions,
1. Where should I get my deflect and how much do you find works best for you?
I saw a post where you rolled for max Dex however did not upgrade it any further with leveling points and instead rose INT and CHAR, is this a good start still?
Other than that is it best to concentrate on getting deflect from enchantments, artifacts, mount bonus, or a combination of all?
2. What should I have in offence slots?
3. I use T Feytouched, is this my best option?
4. Are Storm Spell and Chilling Presence BIS?
5. I completely understand if you do not want to share your exact build however can you please share some targets to reach for Power/Crit/Arp/Deflect/Lifesteal?
6. In one post you mentioned being able to dodge more than 3 times due to stamina gain without Elven Battle. Is this with Gas Spore Mount Power or something different?
still using the same build max dex and con on initial rolls never changed it once I still have the original halfling model without the warped body ...I can get 50% deflect in full tank mode (dont even try) aim for say 20-30% for starters there is a boon that adds 3% as well
2 offense slot I am using a mix all hybrid enchants bruals (power crit ) vicious (power armor pen) and crit armor pen as well
if you cant get your armor pen to around 80-100% for now dont even bother you are a controller not a damager then
3 i am using fey touched ..( t lightning can be good is you are a MOF and using abyss of chaos in the renegade tree to proc it also good if you are hybrid build and still need to grind boons and content
4 yes but if you are oppressor you might have chilling and arcane presence for for ice damage or for even lower cool down 5my targets are not realistic cause im in a level 20 guild hall you need mind 10-15% life steal min 80-100 armor pen
min around 30-40% crit only to proc other effects not to do damage crits do less damage in pvp due to tenacity unless you pump up critical severity ... but even then
5 yup I have full stats 4.3k item level +4000 mount for movement or armor pen so i can dip into the best of both worlds get your hit points up first tho you dont do any damage if you are dead ...
6 stamina gain stat lets you dodge more also from artefacts boons and weapon powers
7 also offhand and main hand bonuses you can add combat advantage or more stamina gain there you shouyld also by using the weapon power that gives and extra spell storm strike
other points to consider my at wills I use ....charging storm pillar to full gives you 5% more damage(feated) and can reveal TR out of stealth it also summons a storm pillar companion that is stationary
it can be charged as you are falling down on to the point
retreating and dodging moving sideways on the Cw has a faster movement rate then walking backwards (move backwards is slow when in combat )
there is no point on having any aux stats beyond 1000 point or so heavy diminishing returns
eg combat advantage incoming healing stamina gain aoe resist cc resist etc etc I have them all around 6-9% or so in effectiveness
maelstrom of chaos can also be cancelled (as per power description) and you only lose half the action points and you can still CC break and dodge ..then it charges up again pretty fast or you can use it full to make then enemy waste most of his encounters ... there is a feat that synergies with it as well in the renegade tree adding chill stacks or arcane stacks upon its use you only need say 2 point in that cause points add duration not effectiveness
those free up points you can splash 1 point in sever reaction and the rest in bitter cold
I will say this here any CW that does not have 1 point in severe reaction your build is wrong and gimped!!
I can probably think of 10 more page to write but most dont deserve it lol
Vip rank 3 I believe adds bonus hitpoints as well for you and you party ... heroes feast also adds power and hitpoints for the whole party
Thank you for the insight. It's cool to see I'm thinking along some of the same lines. I am loving thaum at the moment, it also rocks in PVE (especially compared to my earlier opp build). Someone the other day was berating me for taking far spell lol, it's a must IMO. Without acuity my rotations seem sluggish, and using far spell to maneuver your opponents (like boxing, i.e. rotation, distance, maneuvering etc...) makes up for sheer speed. The synergy between Acuity and Spell twisting is lost on some people (see velocity versus acceleration, first and second order differentials...
potion of herosim +1 to int cha and wis also stacks with everything else
if you jump and time you spells right you can also reach opponents on edges in that case you want to use repel last in your rotation or not at all
icy rays you can also mark enemies with a triangle on their head and when they go invisible they can be tracked
or you can mark with an icy ray wait for the opponent to dodge then fire (more likely to hit this way)
or you can target two opponents at once to stun both if you are really good (very situational more for strategic retreat )
possible other rotation used ray of enfeeble /icy ray /ice knife /disintegrate
aside from pvp potions (the strongest on only available at the vendor at the trade of blades (not at the guild hall the vendor there sells a weaker one)
additional sources of less expensive artefacts with deflect can be found on a few classes gwf and warlock and tr
The primary artefact i use (wheel of element i dont think is available on xbox or ps4
arguably one the best in the game since it has 4 effects that you chose and your team members can get the other buffs.....healing over time water ... damage fire ...more temp hit points earth ..more speed air
you might find the waters of eliad artefact useful lfor burst healing as well
many mount insignia bonuses off deflect and armor pen as well
also take the prestidigitation feat on the cw (2 ranks) gives 2% bonus on all stats including party members no range all the time stacks with another cws prestidigitation as well
I have taken Thaumaturge tree with Far Spell and dipped into Renegade for Critical Power and Unrestrained Chaos. I also dipped into Oppressor for Severe Reaction. I am really noticing the AP gain from Critical Power.
I was never using Maelstrom in PVP and I cannot believe what I have been missing out on. The cc break for 1/2 AP is awesome and if fully cast the animation is so long that people waste so many encounters (thanks for sharing).
Right now this is how my CW looks (about 2.7k),
Gear
3 piece Warborn (Executioner) 1 Prestige (Executioner)
2 x Rosegold Executioner Rings
Valindra, belt, neck
Drowned Weapons
Artifacts
Token of Free Movement (Has Deflect), Belial's Portal Stone, Shard of Valindra's Crown, Sigil of the Controller.
Enchantments
T. Feytouched
Perfect Negation
Darks in all slots (Mix of ranks 8,9,10)
As of now my artifacts and artifact weapons are epic and my artifact belt/neck are blue, so no extra slots unlocked. That leaves me with 5 Offence Slots and 4 Defense Slots.
For now as I continue towards refining and unlocking extra slots, do you think this could work as a starting point?
1. Fill all Offence Slots with my R10 Darks
2. Buy Rank 10 Silvery for All 4 Defense Slots
3. Put Valindra Artifact, Belt and Neck aside and replace with Selarine belt, neck and Artifact (The belt and neck have deflect and the set bonus adds to tankiness)
4. Run with Emblem of Seldarine, Token of Free Movement and 2 other Deflect Artifacts
or
Emblem of Seldarine, Token of Free Movement, Wheel of Elements (Active), 1 other Deflect Artifact
5. Get a mount with 2k Deflect
6. Try get 2x Rosegold Duelist Rings
movement, armorpen (offensive mode) life steal (defensive mode) cant really go wrong with those cause you can always move them around
in the case of radiants hitpoints or power ...defensive mode offensive mode ...