plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,408Arc User
AH is like stock market, buy low sell high. Price can be changed because demand/supply change, the nature of item change, etc. Just because one wants to buy low and sell high, it does not mean one can do so (although they hope so). The one who tries to grab everything can grab the wrong things at the wrong time and burn badly.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
if one can afford to buy up items listed by undercutters that are in a rush to move their items and relist them at the price they feel an item is worth it is up to the market to decide if their price is reasonable or not ... if not they wont sell ... simple as that
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
There IS a problem because some people consistently seem to get information about upcoming changes before everybody else. When nothing is yet announced or on preview, you will see a dramatic rise in price for something, then 2 days later there's an announcement and the info leak will have made a fortune for a few people.
That's the nature of the AH game. If you want to be successful "playing" the AH, you have to watch the game like a hawk. Any change or pending change, or even hint of a change can dramatically affect the value of anything you want to "flip" on the AH.
But keep in mind this is also balanced by the need to speculate on items. For every success story, there's 10 failures. No one has a crystal ball, and it's just as easy to lose a lot of AD by speculating that something's going to be rare or worthwhile in the future, only to find out a patch, change or introduction of a new item has made it worthless.
I'm not talking about legitimate watching, some people knew about impending announcements before they happened and yes insider trading. When stuff goes up by a factor of 5-10 2 days before an announcement which will radically affect scarcity, and this is happening consistently (also people dumping stuff before it's nerfed), I think something is going seriously wrong.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,408Arc User
There IS a problem because some people consistently seem to get information about upcoming changes before everybody else. When nothing is yet announced or on preview, you will see a dramatic rise in price for something, then 2 days later there's an announcement and the info leak will have made a fortune for a few people.
That's the nature of the AH game. If you want to be successful "playing" the AH, you have to watch the game like a hawk. Any change or pending change, or even hint of a change can dramatically affect the value of anything you want to "flip" on the AH.
But keep in mind this is also balanced by the need to speculate on items. For every success story, there's 10 failures. No one has a crystal ball, and it's just as easy to lose a lot of AD by speculating that something's going to be rare or worthwhile in the future, only to find out a patch, change or introduction of a new item has made it worthless.
I'm not talking about legitimate watching, some people knew about impending announcements before they happened and yes insider trading. When stuff goes up by a factor of 5-10 2 days before an announcement which will radically affect scarcity, and this is happening consistently (also people dumping stuff before it's nerfed), I think something is going seriously wrong.
What is the announcement? Dev post something? Many times people who went to preview server found out the 'detail' before the announcement (if there is an announcement at all). Many of those 'announcement' were from players reporting what they found and they may not even post that here.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Im going to tell you something.. the one time, that prices dropped to reasonable levels, was when they added pwards and cwards at reduced rates in the tbar store.
Every other discussion outside of that, is sort of moot, this covers all enchants, bondings, runestones.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
I have been watching the price of Legendary mounts steadily rise on the auction house in spite of the fact that sources of AD have been removed from the game.
Perhaps people are using the new system in ways I don't see to generate vast amounts of AD - a possibility I don't at all discount - but from what I can see, less AD in the economy (in particular less ability for accounts with many toons to generate it with minimal effort e.g. by invoking) would tend to drive prices down (or at least arrest their increase).
I suspect that the 0% listing fee is being used by a fairly small number of trade-oriented players to create the illusion that low-volume items (such as the Legendary mounts) are worth more than they probably are.
In real life, listing anything on an exchange comes at a cost. Even a consignment store, which charges no listing fee but takes a share of the sale, won't give you shelf space if you price your items too high.
Increasing the VIP listing fee from 0% to (some small number)% will hardly harm people that price items to sell or people that play the game of snatching up lower-listed items for resale at a higher price that the market will realistically meet. It would most substantially harm people that post the same item over and over as a form of price fixing.
If any change is made to the VIP listing fee, it's only fair to announce the change months in advance so that people can make informed decisions about extending VIP.
There IS a problem because some people consistently seem to get information about upcoming changes before everybody else. When nothing is yet announced or on preview, you will see a dramatic rise in price for something, then 2 days later there's an announcement and the info leak will have made a fortune for a few people.
That's the nature of the AH game. If you want to be successful "playing" the AH, you have to watch the game like a hawk. Any change or pending change, or even hint of a change can dramatically affect the value of anything you want to "flip" on the AH.
But keep in mind this is also balanced by the need to speculate on items. For every success story, there's 10 failures. No one has a crystal ball, and it's just as easy to lose a lot of AD by speculating that something's going to be rare or worthwhile in the future, only to find out a patch, change or introduction of a new item has made it worthless.
I'm not talking about legitimate watching, some people knew about impending announcements before they happened and yes insider trading. When stuff goes up by a factor of 5-10 2 days before an announcement which will radically affect scarcity, and this is happening consistently (also people dumping stuff before it's nerfed), I think something is going seriously wrong.
What is the announcement? Dev post something? Many times people who went to preview server found out the 'detail' before the announcement (if there is an announcement at all). Many of those 'announcement' were from players reporting what they found and they may not even post that here.
I'm talking about before anything happened on preview.
For example if something is going to change as to how an event works (or what's in a lockbox) where a reward will become much more/less common or more/less useful, people will either buy/dump them in the couple of days before there's any public pronouncement or patch on preview.
High prophet gear was being dumped before the dev post announcing the nerfing of it, the price dropped dramatically in the couple of days before that as the people in the know unloaded it. One of my guild's AH watchers commented on this just before the dev announcement and predicted the nerf.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Increasing the VIP listing fee from 0% to (some small number)% will hardly harm people that price items to sell or people that play the game of snatching up lower-listed items for resale at a higher price that the market will realistically meet. It would most substantially harm people that post the same item over and over as a form of price fixing.
But you just said it in your own words. "items for resale at a higher price tha(n) the market will realistically meet."
That's the entire point. You can list whatever you want for whatever price on the AH. Doesn't mean the item is worth that amount, nor does it mean people are actually paying that amount.
Truth is, if you're the only person with an unbound Tenser's Disk in your inventory, you can charge whatever the heck you want for it. 10 million? 20 million? 99 million? Doesn't matter. What matters is the willingness of someone to pay that amount.
It's not a scam. It's reality.
To put it a different way, how much is a Tenser's Disk really worth? To me? Maybe 3 to 5 million AD. Why? Because based on the other Zen store prices, if I ever imagine them selling a Legendary mount, I'm guessing it'll be priced at $60-100. Any more than that would be absolutely insane. In my opinion.
But every person is going to have a different opinion. However, if you're going to use /trade to make deals in order to bypass the fees on the AH, you have to know what you're doing, otherwise you are going to get ripped off. Heck, that's why people sell or buystuff in /trade, because often times they deal with people who ignorantly have no idea what's going on with prices, so they can usually get a better deal.
Removing this benefit from VIP will negatively impact thousands of players who just enjoy the perk...for what? Nothing.
People have been getting ripped of in /trade since this game was in beta. But then again, who am I to argue that someone isn't actually willing to pay 70 million AD for a Legendary mount?
Theyll never change the no posting fee perk that comes with vip. why? because of the inflated prices. sure we dont believe someone would pay 20 million ad (real money equivalent) for a tensers, but i bet it has happened. thus allowing them to profit from someone buying zen with $. house always wins. i bought my imperial rage drake for 1 million ad in a time before mount bonuses, but if the % fee was still a thing i bet we'd see realistic pricing of EVERYTHING. im not mad about it, but its definitely one of the worst things theyve done to casual players. gg nw.
Theyll never change the no posting fee perk that comes with vip. why? because of the inflated prices. sure we dont believe someone would pay 20 million ad (real money equivalent) for a tensers, but i bet it has happened. thus allowing them to profit from someone buying zen with $. house always wins. i bought my imperial rage drake for 1 million ad in a time before mount bonuses, but if the % fee was still a thing i bet we'd see realistic pricing of EVERYTHING. im not mad about it, but its definitely one of the worst things theyve done to casual players. gg nw.
Ppl pay +20kk AD for legendary mounts in the AH, I sold one. Would I pay that amount, no. Do I feel bad or a cheat? Did I exploit anyone? No. A fee would not make me sell big ticket items for less, but via trade chat. No lower prices and as an added 'bonus' no AH cut for cryptic either.
Comments
Every other discussion outside of that, is sort of moot, this covers all enchants, bondings, runestones.
Perhaps people are using the new system in ways I don't see to generate vast amounts of AD - a possibility I don't at all discount - but from what I can see, less AD in the economy (in particular less ability for accounts with many toons to generate it with minimal effort e.g. by invoking) would tend to drive prices down (or at least arrest their increase).
I suspect that the 0% listing fee is being used by a fairly small number of trade-oriented players to create the illusion that low-volume items (such as the Legendary mounts) are worth more than they probably are.
In real life, listing anything on an exchange comes at a cost. Even a consignment store, which charges no listing fee but takes a share of the sale, won't give you shelf space if you price your items too high.
Increasing the VIP listing fee from 0% to (some small number)% will hardly harm people that price items to sell or people that play the game of snatching up lower-listed items for resale at a higher price that the market will realistically meet. It would most substantially harm people that post the same item over and over as a form of price fixing.
If any change is made to the VIP listing fee, it's only fair to announce the change months in advance so that people can make informed decisions about extending VIP.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
For example if something is going to change as to how an event works (or what's in a lockbox) where a reward will become much more/less common or more/less useful, people will either buy/dump them in the couple of days before there's any public pronouncement or patch on preview.
High prophet gear was being dumped before the dev post announcing the nerfing of it, the price dropped dramatically in the couple of days before that as the people in the know unloaded it. One of my guild's AH watchers commented on this just before the dev announcement and predicted the nerf.
That's the entire point. You can list whatever you want for whatever price on the AH. Doesn't mean the item is worth that amount, nor does it mean people are actually paying that amount.
Truth is, if you're the only person with an unbound Tenser's Disk in your inventory, you can charge whatever the heck you want for it. 10 million? 20 million? 99 million? Doesn't matter. What matters is the willingness of someone to pay that amount.
It's not a scam. It's reality.
To put it a different way, how much is a Tenser's Disk really worth? To me? Maybe 3 to 5 million AD. Why? Because based on the other Zen store prices, if I ever imagine them selling a Legendary mount, I'm guessing it'll be priced at $60-100. Any more than that would be absolutely insane. In my opinion.
But every person is going to have a different opinion. However, if you're going to use /trade to make deals in order to bypass the fees on the AH, you have to know what you're doing, otherwise you are going to get ripped off. Heck, that's why people sell or buystuff in /trade, because often times they deal with people who ignorantly have no idea what's going on with prices, so they can usually get a better deal.
Removing this benefit from VIP will negatively impact thousands of players who just enjoy the perk...for what? Nothing.
People have been getting ripped of in /trade since this game was in beta. But then again, who am I to argue that someone isn't actually willing to pay 70 million AD for a Legendary mount?