I haven't run it because there isn't any reason for me to do it. I don't need anything from the dungeon.
Think i´ll try it one day later when requirements (28%)are taken away. Don´t like it to be forced to buy equipment for getting equipment i dont like either.
Remember IWD !!!!!
This and I'm an altoholic, I'm taking 3 characters thru SKT so predictably none of them are close to having enough voninsblood.
ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
FBI is actually the most fun dungeon I had in a long while - ever since they removed the old ones (and that the power creep made them not as enjoyable as before). That being said, I am a high-end geared player, so understandably, alot of lower-end geared players or more casual ones in playstyle don't really get to experience it. But there it stops. It is JUST FUN, there is no other reason to do it other than for the challenge. The loot don't really justify it as much though it could be pretty nice at times - ruby from the chest for example.
Unlike the old dungeons where a loot drop used to sell for 1mil - now that is something that people would farm crazily for. So, on top of the steep skill and gear and campaign unlock requirement, some people just throw the towels and say, hey let's skip this dungeon. It's probably better to farm CN for the Shard of Orcus Wand that sells for alot more. Nevertheless, I do like that dungeon for enjoyment purpose once a week or so, but in the end, it's just a dungeon that is not for everyone or every party composition, and that's where it failed to sell itself to the wider player base.
Yes, it´s dungeon you run for fun, that´s it and I im fine withit running it that way. But the effect on this game is pretty negative tbh. Lot´s of player do feel excludet from a hole mod, the consequences are obviuos. They lose interest to play or pay for NWO, wich is bad in the end. Maybe a normal and an epic version should have been implemented, maybe they should have let everyone decide himself how and if he wants to run that dungeon or give it a try on epic version. It is not needed to gate those dungeons imo.
Fangbreaker Island is actually a fun dungeon. It took me a while to work up the desire to grind out the Everfrost requirement but I'm glad I did.
Especially given that the Everfrost Resistance is an unlock only that can be totally ignored when you're in the dungeon, I'm unlikely to unlock it on many toons. Unfortunate. It would be enjoyable to play different roles in there.
I agree with you for the most part. However, I feel like I shouldn't unlock FBI for my other characters because I don't want to give the devs any indication that their recent decisions with vblod gating were successful.
Based on recent dev comments, it's becoming clear that they rely mostly on usage metrics as a measure of success with little regard to player enjoyment or quality of life. As long as we keep doing it, they'll keep pointing and saying "see? you like it"
"The community is clearly enjoying our convoluted heavily time-gated system of repeated aggravated nut-kicking because they keep lining up to get kicked in the nuts."
Well I won't. I'm not going to line up again.
Just as an example of how they don't learn from their mistakes. The original black ice gear failed because nobody wants to constantly have to grind batteries for their clothes. The Dev who came up with the theme, went away, and then came back for this module with a solution to this by making the gear prevent peircing damage. Then they realized that people could just overcome the added damage with powers. So to combat this, instead of scrubbing the idea YET AGAIN cause nobody likes it, they decide to nerf the powers and remove as many damage mitigation powers and immunities as possible so that the player HAS to go down the narrow path the devs set forth with yet another grindy vomit inducing chore.
What the devs in this game don't realize is they are troubleshooting player satisfaction away instead of making the game more fun, they are just removing the joy out of the game. The problem was not how to make that really bad idea work, it was not coming up with a better idea. So now you've got mass exodus over power nerfing/loot reward systems. All cause 1 guy who gets paid alot in your company, doesn't want to be wrong and doubled down on making their really bad idea look better on paper.
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited October 2016
I generally pug, and have twice "dressed up" for Fangbreaker and waited 30 minutes. I had resisted putting out the effort for the EF resistance, but finally gave in. Since you have to wear that stuff while queued, I can't really do much while waiting, and then I find I'm all dressed with no place to go!
Personally, I'd like to get the "revivified" gear in 10.5, but it doesn't currently seem possible to acquire.
I ran FBI, Got a Rusty hat that wants me to put 35 lanolins and 10k Voninblood and some animal fat to turn into the exact same hat I already have + x% Everfrost Resistance. Then I can make the special now not rusty hat have slightly more stats at tier 3 for 2 whole hours if I continue to farm out this Voninblood. Wow. No thanks. Completely dumb.
I had ran FBI in the gear I normally wear and had NO trouble. The only EF resistance I had after I took off my qualifying gear through the dungeon was my boons and the potion I had taken didn't run out.
I didn't have any problem surviving and doing my job.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
The empowerment system and gating sucks.. its as simple as that.
Sure "some" players are doing it.. and apparently enough are spending real life zen on that HAMSTER system, to make the company continue to defend the entire HAMSTER system.
I hate mod 10 forward, despise almost everything they did.
The only thing I can even remotely tolerate is a few runs in FBI.
i can barely log in due to this gating and empowerment system, without sputting a whole bunch of nasty terrible thoughts at the worst type of game designs.
I stay around hoping for changes, but like the key changes, all I think they will do is captitulate on a few points here and there.
The game is just not very fun at the moment, its really boring overall.
I really hope the whole system is scrapped by mod 11.
I wont be going for the new weapons either. This is the design flaw , when its players just say screw it.. then they designed it wrong.
The whole issue comes down to whales, if enough of them spend thousands apiece to get a chance at something, then all other gamers dont matter, we just dont at all matter.
i dont like Coldrun quests, too tough, after unlocking Cold run, i no longer get weekly choice to get, it is always Coldrun tasks that i hate, so, i am on 2nd boon, and now i play less than i had been before mod 10.
i rather get main weekly quest from Lonelywoods and if i want to do Byrn Shander, but that 2 yeti was little too much, it is pure potion guzzling bait quest.
Devs did this "whole Challenging Contents" too far, overland quests shouldnt be that too tough, i assumed it was those dungeons, those new dungeons would been challengings instead of overland zones.
It should be that after the second or third day in Cold Run, the Defending the Dale quest permanently goes to 1 quest in each zone. At that point, the progression gets much easier - do all the easy quests in a zone but only turn one in a day. That way you can avoid the chance of a day with all bad quests.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
I have not opened it. Everything I have heard says its a fun dugeon with HAMSTER rewards. I have no desire to farm the gear needed to enter FBI and thus have not opened it on the campaign tree.
Ever heard about trying stuff by yourself instead of listening to bitching on the forums? The rewards are mostly OK. I get a rank 8 enchantment about once every two or three runs. During double enchantments it's clearly worth it.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I ran FBI, Got a Rusty hat that wants me to put 35 lanolins and 10k Voninblood and some animal fat to turn into the exact same hat I already have + x% Everfrost Resistance. Then I can make the special now not rusty hat have slightly more stats at tier 3 for 2 whole hours if I continue to farm out this Voninblood. Wow. No thanks. Completely dumb.
It's brutal. Running FBI honestly isn't that bad. It's fun, the fights are interesting and require you to be on your toes the entire time.
But this is deflating. I got the gloves to drop with the stats I wanted a couple weeks ago...but the requirements to restore them are insane. Gathering 25 MORE lanolin, in addition to the other mats...plus having to keep them empowered? That's freaking brutal.
Your reward for slogging through all of that is...another soul-crushing grind!
For a GWF , if you take into account Steely Defense (20% from DR= +Power)
Headsmans´s breast and boots---------------= 34.767 HP, 2160 Power, 2623 Crit, 2063 DR Dusk raid Scale mail and greves incl groupbonus = 33.559 HP, 3306 Power, 1890 Crit, 2867 DR ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dusk raid armor is superior to Relic armor------ -1208 HP, +1146 Power, -733 Crit, +804 DR and Wanderer Vigor is pretty nice on top
Head: Elemental alliance assault armor IL 132: 1242 crit, 532 arp, 724 DR Headsmasn´s Raid Sallet IL 145:-------1026 crit, 684 Pow, 825 DR
As one of the players here who run FBI very often i think the main problem is with the rewards. Its fun and challenging but unless u run it at a speed where u dont need more then 25 min per run it just isnt netting as much as CN. I dont know why the rewards have to be so bad. Currently only 0.1% can run it at a rate where it rewards more then CN. Do the devs fear that high lvl players earn to much ad? Or whats the problem.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
I'm not using gear that requires refueling. Ever. If the game develops in such a way as to make that kind of gear the only way to progress I'll just stop playing.
I also don't swap gear. I'm not keeping gear around just for the purpose of meeting an arbitrary stat cap to enter a dungeon.
The whole black ice damage system was a mistake, and eventually the devs admitted that by removing it and the resistance requirement for Kessel's. I'm predicting the same thing will happen here sooner or later.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Amen..
I will also quit if they force it. So far you can just ignore it and continue most of the game, as we wait around and twiddle our thumbs, while the idiotic morons eventually capitulate after admitting what we already told them at the start.
Only the smallest minority is going to bother with this..
I hate it with a passion and its driven whatever goodwill I had about the game down he drain.
Really, what Cryptic should have done is release 2 versions of this dungeon, you know like they used to do. Call the current version T3 and make the loot drops a lot better then they currently are. Make a watered down version(no EF requirements, mobs a little easier, same boss mechanics) of the T3 version and call it a T2 and leave it with current loot structure.
Have the T2 version available the first day the mod went live. This would get people excited about doing the content while waiting to unlock the T3 version.
Make the T3 version require EF resistance by making it an actual environment effect where without proper resistance your character would eventually have movement slowed to crawl and maybe even get a DoT that can not be healed and will eventual kill them. By making EF an environmental effect you would effectively removed old (mod 5) gear from the game without have to be rude and heavy handed by using DEV magic to make these old sets plain useless.
Get rid of empowerment or make it last a lot longer, especially if used in the new zones. I think if you spin EF around, by this I mean if the gear is used in the new area's then it will not decay or decay at a small rate, use in old content have it decay faster (but not as fast as it does now, maybe old school black ice decay levels) and reduce the vblod requirements for making and maintaining the gear. Even better though is just remove the decay period... none like this. If you want to have different tiers of that armor, go ahead do it, but just don't make it decay. By making it decay you make us grind, and grinding is not fun if its just because...really so much grind already in this game. If you make the gear have Tier level (umm basically artifact gear without calling it artifact gear) you could increase how much vblod is required to make the gear... not many would gripe to much about it...but PLEASE REMOVE THE DECAY part of the gear....
Also, make Lanolin work like unified elements. Use Leathworking (keeps the crafting aspect of the game updated) to make lanolin with same time gates as unified elements. Again, people might gripe but at least there will be a way forward without have to endless grind goddamn HE's.
Last, make the rust gear purchasable with campaign currency. Make the campaign currency requirements for buying rust gear equal to 3 months worth of dailies (I don't care) in new campaign if you have to. Make the currency drop in FBI (i think it already does), both versions, that way people can get it before the 3 months if they want to do the new dungeons. Please for the love of Mystra give us a non-RnG way to get stuff....
umm basically just change mod 10,
Don't get me wrong like others have said FBI is a fun dungeon. It is by far the hardest one I have ever done, although I will say that a pug T2 DV was fairly close in difficulty, it is hard. Many, new intersting mechanics, lots of good work and thought (minus EF requirements and how EF works) went into making this dungeon. Just not run as much as it could be....
As one of the players here who run FBI very often i think the main problem is with the rewards. Its fun and challenging but unless u run it at a speed where u dont need more then 25 min per run it just isnt netting as much as CN. I dont know why the rewards have to be so bad. Currently only 0.1% can run it at a rate where it rewards more then CN. Do the devs fear that high lvl players earn to much ad? Or whats the problem.
It's because the developers are stupid. One of them came on and had the audacity to say Vonimblood was easier to get than black ice. I'm not sure what game he thinks he is working on but it sure isn't Neverwinter. So if a developer actually thinks that, I just don't know what to say...... It certainly explains why the rewards in FBI are so bad. The developers think it's good! I say it's time to introduce random drug testing for the development team.
As one of the players here who run FBI very often i think the main problem is with the rewards. Its fun and challenging but unless u run it at a speed where u dont need more then 25 min per run it just isnt netting as much as CN. I dont know why the rewards have to be so bad. Currently only 0.1% can run it at a rate where it rewards more then CN. Do the devs fear that high lvl players earn to much ad? Or whats the problem.
It's because the developers are stupid. One of them came on and had the audacity to say Vonimblood was easier to get than black ice. I'm not sure what game he thinks he is working on but it sure isn't Neverwinter. So if a developer actually thinks that, I just don't know what to say...... It certainly explains why the rewards in FBI are so bad. The developers think it's good! I say it's time to introduce random drug testing for the development team.
Somehow, I have the feeling that if they agree with you regarding Black Ice, they will go to nerf Black Ice to make sure it is harder to get than blood. Usually, that is how they "fix" the issue.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
It's because the developers are stupid. One of them came on and had the audacity to say Vonimblood was easier to get than black ice. I'm not sure what game he thinks he is working on but it sure isn't Neverwinter. So if a developer actually thinks that, I just don't know what to say...... It certainly explains why the rewards in FBI are so bad. The developers think it's good! I say it's time to introduce random drug testing for the development team.
From what I can tell, the developer you mention was absolutely correct that vblod is easier to get than refined black ice.
Here's why: relic farming for vblod, while tedious, is not hard and you can rake in the vblod that way with very little effort. In a matter of maybe an hour you can amass 10K (or more) vblod without fighting a single mob or doing any HEs or quests if you want. You can mine black ice too of course, but the acquisition rates are much lower AND more importantly, you get raw black ice which isn't usable for anything until it's refined. This differs from vblod which is usable immediately. The black ice refinement process is tied to profession projects which radically limits the rate at which you can acquire refined (usable) black ice. This means refined black ice is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult (in terms of time, if not actual effort) to acquire than vblod.
Now, as far as loot and value per run... phsst. Forget it... almost no DD is worth running for the loot at this point, much less one hidden behind such a steep gindwall.
IMHO the issue with the new armor sets is the bonus is typically only relevant to the current mod. In the day of icewind dale the resistance only affected you in icewind dale. then you have drowcraft... that gives you bonus only to edemo fight basically.. again the rinse and repeat formula of lets give armor thats bonus is only relevant to the current content.. so that when we throw out trash for next mod they will need to replace based on only the current contents environment. They do not even do this with artifact weapons or sets.. they have bonuses that are relevant mod after mod until they nerf something like lostmouth to only replace with orcus set. The phrase to much work for to little reward is starting to become a mantra for the gaming community of neverwinter. This is further compounded by basically the only rewards being armor in fbi.. its not worth the grind..because again its bonus is only relevant to the current content and will not extend beyond it.
I ran FBI, Got a Rusty hat that wants me to put 35 lanolins and 10k Voninblood and some animal fat to turn into the exact same hat I already have + x% Everfrost Resistance. Then I can make the special now not rusty hat have slightly more stats at tier 3 for 2 whole hours if I continue to farm out this Voninblood. Wow. No thanks. Completely dumb.
It's brutal. Running FBI honestly isn't that bad. It's fun, the fights are interesting and require you to be on your toes the entire time.
But this is deflating. I got the gloves to drop with the stats I wanted a couple weeks ago...but the requirements to restore them are insane. Gathering 25 MORE lanolin, in addition to the other mats...plus having to keep them empowered? That's freaking brutal.
Your reward for slogging through all of that is...another soul-crushing grind!
I really liked the dungeon. It's different and it's not Epic Temple of the Spider again! However, the few people who I know who actually want to do the dungeon make it not worth it. I play to have fun with my friends. I'm not really gaining anything from the gear in here on my favorite character so unless people I know really want to run it.. and why should they? The rewards aren't rewarding AT ALL.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Comments
Unlike the old dungeons where a loot drop used to sell for 1mil - now that is something that people would farm crazily for. So, on top of the steep skill and gear and campaign unlock requirement, some people just throw the towels and say, hey let's skip this dungeon. It's probably better to farm CN for the Shard of Orcus Wand that sells for alot more. Nevertheless, I do like that dungeon for enjoyment purpose once a week or so, but in the end, it's just a dungeon that is not for everyone or every party composition, and that's where it failed to sell itself to the wider player base.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
But the effect on this game is pretty negative tbh. Lot´s of player do feel excludet from a hole mod, the consequences are obviuos. They lose interest to play or pay for NWO, wich is bad in the end.
Maybe a normal and an epic version should have been implemented, maybe they should have let everyone decide himself how and if he wants to run that dungeon or give it a try on epic version. It is not needed to gate those dungeons imo.
What the devs in this game don't realize is they are troubleshooting player satisfaction away instead of making the game more fun, they are just removing the joy out of the game. The problem was not how to make that really bad idea work, it was not coming up with a better idea. So now you've got mass exodus over power nerfing/loot reward systems. All cause 1 guy who gets paid alot in your company, doesn't want to be wrong and doubled down on making their really bad idea look better on paper.
Personally, I'd like to get the "revivified" gear in 10.5, but it doesn't currently seem possible to acquire.
I had ran FBI in the gear I normally wear and had NO trouble. The only EF resistance I had after I took off my qualifying gear through the dungeon was my boons and the potion I had taken didn't run out.
I didn't have any problem surviving and doing my job.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
Sure "some" players are doing it.. and apparently enough are spending real life zen on that HAMSTER system, to make the company continue to defend the entire HAMSTER system.
I hate mod 10 forward, despise almost everything they did.
The only thing I can even remotely tolerate is a few runs in FBI.
i can barely log in due to this gating and empowerment system, without sputting a whole bunch of nasty terrible thoughts at the worst type of game designs.
I stay around hoping for changes, but like the key changes, all I think they will do is captitulate on a few points here and there.
The game is just not very fun at the moment, its really boring overall.
I really hope the whole system is scrapped by mod 11.
I wont be going for the new weapons either. This is the design flaw , when its players just say screw it.. then they designed it wrong.
The whole issue comes down to whales, if enough of them spend thousands apiece to get a chance at something, then all other gamers dont matter, we just dont at all matter.
i rather get main weekly quest from Lonelywoods and if i want to do Byrn Shander, but that 2 yeti was little too much, it is pure potion guzzling bait quest.
Devs did this "whole Challenging Contents" too far, overland quests shouldnt be that too tough, i assumed it was those dungeons, those new dungeons would been challengings instead of overland zones.
But this is deflating. I got the gloves to drop with the stats I wanted a couple weeks ago...but the requirements to restore them are insane. Gathering 25 MORE lanolin, in addition to the other mats...plus having to keep them empowered? That's freaking brutal.
Your reward for slogging through all of that is...another soul-crushing grind!
Headsmans´s breast and boots---------------= 34.767 HP, 2160 Power, 2623 Crit, 2063 DR
Dusk raid Scale mail and greves incl groupbonus = 33.559 HP, 3306 Power, 1890 Crit, 2867 DR
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dusk raid armor is superior to Relic armor------ -1208 HP, +1146 Power, -733 Crit, +804 DR
and Wanderer Vigor is pretty nice on top
Head:
Elemental alliance assault armor IL 132: 1242 crit, 532 arp, 724 DR
Headsmasn´s Raid Sallet IL 145:-------1026 crit, 684 Pow, 825 DR
I also don't swap gear. I'm not keeping gear around just for the purpose of meeting an arbitrary stat cap to enter a dungeon.
The whole black ice damage system was a mistake, and eventually the devs admitted that by removing it and the resistance requirement for Kessel's. I'm predicting the same thing will happen here sooner or later.
I will also quit if they force it. So far you can just ignore it and continue most of the game, as we wait around and twiddle our thumbs, while the idiotic morons eventually capitulate after admitting what we already told them at the start.
Only the smallest minority is going to bother with this..
I hate it with a passion and its driven whatever goodwill I had about the game down he drain.
Have the T2 version available the first day the mod went live. This would get people excited about doing the content while waiting to unlock the T3 version.
Make the T3 version require EF resistance by making it an actual environment effect where without proper resistance your character would eventually have movement slowed to crawl and maybe even get a DoT that can not be healed and will eventual kill them. By making EF an environmental effect you would effectively removed old (mod 5) gear from the game without have to be rude and heavy handed by using DEV magic to make these old sets plain useless.
Get rid of empowerment or make it last a lot longer, especially if used in the new zones. I think if you spin EF around, by this I mean if the gear is used in the new area's then it will not decay or decay at a small rate, use in old content have it decay faster (but not as fast as it does now, maybe old school black ice decay levels) and reduce the vblod requirements for making and maintaining the gear. Even better though is just remove the decay period... none like this. If you want to have different tiers of that armor, go ahead do it, but just don't make it decay. By making it decay you make us grind, and grinding is not fun if its just because...really so much grind already in this game. If you make the gear have Tier level (umm basically artifact gear without calling it artifact gear) you could increase how much vblod is required to make the gear... not many would gripe to much about it...but PLEASE REMOVE THE DECAY part of the gear....
Also, make Lanolin work like unified elements. Use Leathworking (keeps the crafting aspect of the game updated) to make lanolin with same time gates as unified elements. Again, people might gripe but at least there will be a way forward without have to endless grind goddamn HE's.
Last, make the rust gear purchasable with campaign currency. Make the campaign currency requirements for buying rust gear equal to 3 months worth of dailies (I don't care) in new campaign if you have to. Make the currency drop in FBI (i think it already does), both versions, that way people can get it before the 3 months if they want to do the new dungeons. Please for the love of Mystra give us a non-RnG way to get stuff....
umm basically just change mod 10,
Don't get me wrong like others have said FBI is a fun dungeon. It is by far the hardest one I have ever done, although I will say that a pug T2 DV was fairly close in difficulty, it is hard. Many, new intersting mechanics, lots of good work and thought (minus EF requirements and how EF works) went into making this dungeon. Just not run as much as it could be....
Here's why: relic farming for vblod, while tedious, is not hard and you can rake in the vblod that way with very little effort. In a matter of maybe an hour you can amass 10K (or more) vblod without fighting a single mob or doing any HEs or quests if you want. You can mine black ice too of course, but the acquisition rates are much lower AND more importantly, you get raw black ice which isn't usable for anything until it's refined. This differs from vblod which is usable immediately. The black ice refinement process is tied to profession projects which radically limits the rate at which you can acquire refined (usable) black ice. This means refined black ice is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult (in terms of time, if not actual effort) to acquire than vblod.
Now, as far as loot and value per run... phsst. Forget it... almost no DD is worth running for the loot at this point, much less one hidden behind such a steep gindwall.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
The phrase to much work for to little reward is starting to become a mantra for the gaming community of neverwinter. This is further compounded by basically the only rewards being armor in fbi.. its not worth the grind..because again its bonus is only relevant to the current content and will not extend beyond it.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.