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Dungeon Key Changes

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  • aspa12aspa12 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 33 Arc User
    Concerning bugs I'd like to refer to a few others now that u're starting 'fixing them'

    I took a quest one of these days, fight to the finish its name. It asks u to win a pvp match.
    I queued and was up against 3.5k players with high RI and tenacity. I was one-shotted. Clearly all these players need to get banned they r exploting this pvp q to make ad without even using legendary keys!!! wth 0_0

    The weekly missions of AR and BT wont ask u for a key when opening the chest. The chest is clearly broken and opens on its own :/ I'm very trouble as I have stacks of legendary keys which clog my inventory. :(

    When talking to several NPS throughout the world of neverwinter they give u the option of accept and decline. I don't know why but I'm a very indecisive person I cant pick either. My mental state is at risk with all these choices u are making us chose. Plz remove them.

    Sorry for the sarcasm but I cant take this matter seriously. Honesty sure is a rare site to see nowdays.






    If you can't convince them confuse them.
  • Stop feeding the troll guys and get back on topic.

    People done with the campaigns/boons run dungeons. Buying keys could cost $5-$10 a night. With the trash loot, they'll stop buying keys. If they don't have keys for the chests, they won't run dungeons. If all they do is run dungeons, and they don't have keys, they will just stop playing.
  • kuero21kuero21 Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    jwriams said:

    I love this part:


    "We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not..."


    Let me get this straight....

    You ADMIT that a SMALL number of people DIDN'T know about declining.
    Did it EVER occur to you to TELL THEM?

    Make an announcement. Boom.... now, everyone knows.

    Instead, you DESTROY the economics of the game to address a SMALL number of uninformed people and you call their ignorance an inequality????

    Sounds like have a place in government if you need a second career.

    You misunderstood something. "the minority of players who knew about it".
    They are insisting that either the majority of all players did not know about it being a bug or not knowing the decline feature at all.
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    But that the exact system you are defending, they have just increased grind, not decreased it , steadily in fact. Your supposed logical deduction seems un-reasonable approached to me. Can I still make millions upon millions of AD a year after this change? Yes I could.. but who cares. Like I said, the removal of keys are not , by themselves all that game breaking, its just a tipping point on what has been a disastrous amount of grind and gating.

    All I really want in all honestly is a QOL review. But your condescending and proactive tone suggests , we all know what you want.

    Big picture.. they increase the grind for ultra high end to facilitate the distribution of ad to the general populous of the community.

    Typically the devs only provided changes that increased grind to increase sell of Zen... the Mod 10-10.5 changes ALL seem to be geared to increase grind on the elite to cause ad to flow into the pockets of the people playing at lower IL. Fishermen, treasure Hunters, HE farmers. All these roles can be filled by people that have undeveloped accounts... and the products they have to offer can be purchased by those of us who know how to make AD in more long-term and consistent manners. 50 Character Slots.. professions.. etc.. I won't go into detail.. i'm not looking to increase the numbers of my competitors :D
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • jwriamsjwriams Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    kuero21 said:

    jwriams said:

    I love this part:


    "We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not..."


    Let me get this straight....

    You ADMIT that a SMALL number of people DIDN'T know about declining.
    Did it EVER occur to you to TELL THEM?

    Make an announcement. Boom.... now, everyone knows.

    Instead, you DESTROY the economics of the game to address a SMALL number of uninformed people and you call their ignorance an inequality????

    Sounds like have a place in government if you need a second career.

    You misunderstood something. "the minority of players who knew about it".
    They are insisting that either the majority of all players did not know about it being a bug or not knowing the decline feature at all.

    Ahh yeah.

    So they are claiming that a minority of players knew about it. I disagree with their premise. I misread that, I suppose, because it would be ludicrous to assert that a minority of players DIDN'T know they could decline loot.

    My misread aside, I stand my my original statement-- and emphatically disagree with their assertion that only a minority of players knew about declining chests.
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User

    Doing professions with 50 toon slots really is an exploit.

    Wow... really? Certainly not with the death of the gateway.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I often do not get upset, annoyed, td off, but this is seriously a big issue for me. The only fun I have in this game is the dungeons and rewards from the dungeons. While the rewards are already a joke, ive enjoyed the dungeons. I do not have VIP so I have to pay for each dungeon chest key which is 5k. I end up losing AD from dungeons because of not receiving any kind of drops. So choosing when I can make AD from a chest is very important for me. Its my only source of AD income. Being forced to accept the rewards and lose AD from the chest is gonna hurt a lot.
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User

    Stop feeding the troll guys and get back on topic.

    People done with the campaigns/boons run dungeons. Buying keys could cost $5-$10 a night. With the trash loot, they'll stop buying keys. If they don't have keys for the chests, they won't run dungeons. If all they do is run dungeons, and they don't have keys, they will just stop playing.

    Indeed, plus where is the incentive to run stuff to help the newer guys progress, this started with the loot nerfs (mod 6) and Binding of most loot and rewards, AD from Salvage went down (and is doing so again for small and medium loot the bulk of what you get), then the reduction in drops from the secondary bosses, now its you use a key whether or not there is garbage. Its a pretty dismal way to treat your player base (and lets not mention the Skill node nerfs eh)?
  • kuero21kuero21 Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    pterias said:

    By all rules of logic and common sense, using keys to look in chests without using them up should have never been how it worked. It's comical nonsense that you can use a key to look in a box and then decide later that you never actually used the key. Even Schrodinger's Cat would say what the hamster.

    The irony in this post is at over 9000.
    Using up a key? Yeah, so much about the "by all rules of logic and common sense" talking. Keys are no fragile or disposable objects breaking/ using up after the first use. Keys last for several years before they might begin to deform.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    weaver936 said:

    weaver936 said:

    So, one suggestion... run alts.. -.-. They don't have to be BiS... get the keys from doing weeklies on your alts.. (and get the rad too)....

    You guys really need to stop thinking about everything on the surface level. There really is NO reason to have to ever buy the Zen keys except early in a new dungeon's (campaign's) life.

    I have 6 toons.. all can do FBI... all have keys stacking up... I don't have that much time to run them all through FBi everyday.. lol. I also have 3 other toons that are able to do edemo/CN...

    The changes they are making with the keys will actually make edemo useful again.. aside from the rings... you can make the Greater Demonic Keys with the currency you get from edemo.

    Also, with the chest jey change.. guess what... there's a reason to blow through MC, VT, KR, eLoL again.

    Sure it's not a 6 million AD reward like the Shard of Orcus's Wand... but who actually ever loots that thing anyways.. lol.

    Beyond that... Beyond the obvious.. pretty much every decision that the Dev's have made since Mod 7 (strongholds) has been good for the game, the game economy, normal players, and guilds )those that aren't just basically a pug with SH Boons). Initially, the community.. and even I have raged against the changes.. but as time goes on.. guess what.. I figured out the good in the changes.. took actions to capitialize on them.. and I sitting pretty,,, more or less.

    The amount of positive changes that are coming to the game in Mod 10.5 wouldn't be at all possible if the changes in Mod 10 weren't made.

    In Mod 10.5 the average player will be able to make serious ad. (ONLY BECAUSE the end gamers don't want to grind out the mats for Relic)/Vivi) This is good for guilds overall.. because 1. the players will continue to feel like they are progressing in game.. 2.. they will attain decent IL faster... and 3. they will be able to contribute to SH Coffers more readily and thereby the guild (and everyone of it members) will have access to Guild Boons that leads to faster content completion.

    Just think... if they left the game as it has been... get your gear... get your boons.. farm the best loot dungeon a billion times.. omg.. that would be moronic.... at least in Mod 10.5 there are a myriad of ways to progress.

    They only thing that's really being nerfed is the Dungeon/Gear Up autopiloting that has made this game so damn anti-social and simplistic.

    just.. shakes head.. whatever. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.. the game is more borning now then it has been in for along time. So no, none of these ground shaking decisions you seem to think is positive are really that.

    Bottom line, is the game more fun now? No its not.

    I have fun doing something challenging better than other people.. especially as part of a group of people I've known for a long time. I DON'T have fun doing something a billion times that is easy and doesn't challenge me intellectually or emotionally.

    I'm bored by constant whining from people who won't think 2 steps ahead and make good choices to deal with problems that may arise.

    I have fun interacting with Problem Solvers... not Problem Staters.

    Let's just say.. I RAAAARREEELLLYY ever have the opportunity to have fun in this game anymore.
    @weaver936
    So next mod, there are 3 chests in the new raid, each of which requires either a legendary dragon key, or a once per 20 hour key. In order to upgrade your weapons, you need legendary marks that drop inside this chest. You need more than 1 mark as well, so don't think it is a once off grind. To enter the new raid, you need to beat FBI at least once. Following your logic, the reasonable way to do this would be to get your alts up to 3.1k temporarily, run FBI once, then drop them down to 2.8k and run the raid once per day per alt with people doing similarly, so you can hopefully gear up 1 alt.

    Reality check:

    Players who are far more hardcore than you, realize this is nothing other than a cash grab. Don't even try to make a comparison between your groups and mine, you can't. This isn't about making AD, that anyone can do regardless of this change, this is about being lied to straight in the face by someone up top in Cryptic and about trying to make money off of pvp players who will pay through their teeth for any competitive advantage in mod 10b. There is no feasible way to get the new mod weapons without running the raid 1000's of times and accepting the chest every single time. If you don't pay for those legendary keys, you not getting the weapons before the next set of weapons are released, it is as simple as that.

  • thevaliant#9250 thevaliant Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Tragic mishandling of this business.
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User

    weaver936 said:

    weaver936 said:

    So, one suggestion... run alts.. -.-. They don't have to be BiS... get the keys from doing weeklies on your alts.. (and get the rad too)....

    You guys really need to stop thinking about everything on the surface level. There really is NO reason to have to ever buy the Zen keys except early in a new dungeon's (campaign's) life.

    I have 6 toons.. all can do FBI... all have keys stacking up... I don't have that much time to run them all through FBi everyday.. lol. I also have 3 other toons that are able to do edemo/CN...

    The changes they are making with the keys will actually make edemo useful again.. aside from the rings... you can make the Greater Demonic Keys with the currency you get from edemo.

    Also, with the chest jey change.. guess what... there's a reason to blow through MC, VT, KR, eLoL again.

    Sure it's not a 6 million AD reward like the Shard of Orcus's Wand... but who actually ever loots that thing anyways.. lol.

    Beyond that... Beyond the obvious.. pretty much every decision that the Dev's have made since Mod 7 (strongholds) has been good for the game, the game economy, normal players, and guilds )those that aren't just basically a pug with SH Boons). Initially, the community.. and even I have raged against the changes.. but as time goes on.. guess what.. I figured out the good in the changes.. took actions to capitialize on them.. and I sitting pretty,,, more or less.

    The amount of positive changes that are coming to the game in Mod 10.5 wouldn't be at all possible if the changes in Mod 10 weren't made.

    In Mod 10.5 the average player will be able to make serious ad. (ONLY BECAUSE the end gamers don't want to grind out the mats for Relic)/Vivi) This is good for guilds overall.. because 1. the players will continue to feel like they are progressing in game.. 2.. they will attain decent IL faster... and 3. they will be able to contribute to SH Coffers more readily and thereby the guild (and everyone of it members) will have access to Guild Boons that leads to faster content completion.

    Just think... if they left the game as it has been... get your gear... get your boons.. farm the best loot dungeon a billion times.. omg.. that would be moronic.... at least in Mod 10.5 there are a myriad of ways to progress.

    They only thing that's really being nerfed is the Dungeon/Gear Up autopiloting that has made this game so damn anti-social and simplistic.

    just.. shakes head.. whatever. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.. the game is more borning now then it has been in for along time. So no, none of these ground shaking decisions you seem to think is positive are really that.

    Bottom line, is the game more fun now? No its not.

    I have fun doing something challenging better than other people.. especially as part of a group of people I've known for a long time. I DON'T have fun doing something a billion times that is easy and doesn't challenge me intellectually or emotionally.

    I'm bored by constant whining from people who won't think 2 steps ahead and make good choices to deal with problems that may arise.

    I have fun interacting with Problem Solvers... not Problem Staters.

    Let's just say.. I RAAAARREEELLLYY ever have the opportunity to have fun in this game anymore.
    @weaver936
    So next mod, there are 3 chests in the new raid, each of which requires either a legendary dragon key, or a once per 20 hour key. In order to upgrade your weapons, you need legendary marks that drop inside this chest. You need more than 1 mark as well, so don't think it is a once off grind. To enter the new raid, you need to beat FBI at least once. Following your logic, the reasonable way to do this would be to get your alts up to 3.1k temporarily, run FBI once, then drop them down to 2.8k and run the raid once per day per alt with people doing similarly, so you can hopefully gear up 1 alt.

    Reality check:

    Players who are far more hardcore than you, realize this is nothing other than a cash grab. Don't even try to make a comparison between your groups and mine, you can't. This isn't about making AD, that anyone can do regardless of this change, this is about being lied to straight in the face by someone up top in Cryptic and about trying to make money off of pvp players who will pay through their teeth for any competitive advantage in mod 10b. There is no feasible way to get the new mod weapons without running the raid 1000's of times and accepting the chest every single time. If you don't pay for those legendary keys, you not getting the weapons before the next set of weapons are released, it is as simple as that.

    There speaks the voice of experience and certain knowledge, If you bail Fabricant your input will be missed on future builds that's for sure.
    Losing folk like you and Sharpedge (even though you guys are on PC and I am on Xbone) will be a significant blow to the community!
  • hate4love#5676 hate4love Member Posts: 1 New User
    Are you serious?? This isn't a bug you theres a back or accept button to click before taking the items. Keys take days to make and your guys saying we must keep making them to just get a small chance of finding what we want. You guys are doing this to make more money. Your lowering zen keys to 250? If your going to make it comsume a key no matter what they should be 100 zen for 5. Your going to lose lots of players due to this. Especially my entire guild.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    I guess they'll soften the blow soon.

    Old mechanic, let the bad cop show you the stick (this post) and wait for a few days, in a week we'll be glad and happy if strum promises us better drops from the future.
    As there is no way to check this (even if Cryptic does indeed improve drops for some time) they are going to tune it down soon enough.
    We are just being played. Good audience.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    weaver936 said:

    weaver936 said:

    So, one suggestion... run alts.. -.-. They don't have to be BiS... get the keys from doing weeklies on your alts.. (and get the rad too)....

    You guys really need to stop thinking about everything on the surface level. There really is NO reason to have to ever buy the Zen keys except early in a new dungeon's (campaign's) life.

    I have 6 toons.. all can do FBI... all have keys stacking up... I don't have that much time to run them all through FBi everyday.. lol. I also have 3 other toons that are able to do edemo/CN...

    The changes they are making with the keys will actually make edemo useful again.. aside from the rings... you can make the Greater Demonic Keys with the currency you get from edemo.

    Also, with the chest jey change.. guess what... there's a reason to blow through MC, VT, KR, eLoL again.

    Sure it's not a 6 million AD reward like the Shard of Orcus's Wand... but who actually ever loots that thing anyways.. lol.

    Beyond that... Beyond the obvious.. pretty much every decision that the Dev's have made since Mod 7 (strongholds) has been good for the game, the game economy, normal players, and guilds )those that aren't just basically a pug with SH Boons). Initially, the community.. and even I have raged against the changes.. but as time goes on.. guess what.. I figured out the good in the changes.. took actions to capitialize on them.. and I sitting pretty,,, more or less.

    The amount of positive changes that are coming to the game in Mod 10.5 wouldn't be at all possible if the changes in Mod 10 weren't made.

    In Mod 10.5 the average player will be able to make serious ad. (ONLY BECAUSE the end gamers don't want to grind out the mats for Relic)/Vivi) This is good for guilds overall.. because 1. the players will continue to feel like they are progressing in game.. 2.. they will attain decent IL faster... and 3. they will be able to contribute to SH Coffers more readily and thereby the guild (and everyone of it members) will have access to Guild Boons that leads to faster content completion.

    Just think... if they left the game as it has been... get your gear... get your boons.. farm the best loot dungeon a billion times.. omg.. that would be moronic.... at least in Mod 10.5 there are a myriad of ways to progress.

    They only thing that's really being nerfed is the Dungeon/Gear Up autopiloting that has made this game so damn anti-social and simplistic.

    just.. shakes head.. whatever. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.. the game is more borning now then it has been in for along time. So no, none of these ground shaking decisions you seem to think is positive are really that.

    Bottom line, is the game more fun now? No its not.

    I have fun doing something challenging better than other people.. especially as part of a group of people I've known for a long time. I DON'T have fun doing something a billion times that is easy and doesn't challenge me intellectually or emotionally.

    I'm bored by constant whining from people who won't think 2 steps ahead and make good choices to deal with problems that may arise.

    I have fun interacting with Problem Solvers... not Problem Staters.

    Let's just say.. I RAAAARREEELLLYY ever have the opportunity to have fun in this game anymore.
    @weaver936
    So next mod, there are 3 chests in the new raid, each of which requires either a legendary dragon key, or a once per 20 hour key. In order to upgrade your weapons, you need legendary marks that drop inside this chest. You need more than 1 mark as well, so don't think it is a once off grind. To enter the new raid, you need to beat FBI at least once. Following your logic, the reasonable way to do this would be to get your alts up to 3.1k temporarily, run FBI once, then drop them down to 2.8k and run the raid once per day per alt with people doing similarly, so you can hopefully gear up 1 alt.

    Reality check:

    Players who are far more hardcore than you, realize this is nothing other than a cash grab. Don't even try to make a comparison between your groups and mine, you can't. This isn't about making AD, that anyone can do regardless of this change, this is about being lied to straight in the face by someone up top in Cryptic and about trying to make money off of pvp players who will pay through their teeth for any competitive advantage in mod 10b. There is no feasible way to get the new mod weapons without running the raid 1000's of times and accepting the chest every single time. If you don't pay for those legendary keys, you not getting the weapons before the next set of weapons are released, it is as simple as that.

    First, I respect your contribution to the community with your builds and other useful info you have shared with the community. Ty for that.

    Second... I don't care if the devs make most of their money from OPTIONAL activities like PvP and people that pay 1000's of dollars for bragging rights.. Good.. someone has to pay for this game to be played by most of us for free. Let them do that.

    3rd... the ability to endlessly walk through the hardest of content and make MILLIONS of AD for very little time invested (as soon as it is released) is a major reason I think the devs are making a lot of the recent changes they are making. Class balancing.. nerfing the peeking in chests (and thereby limiting the number of times a toon can run the best loot dungeons in a day for free), and a slew of other changes (including making Relic gear the way it is) is all meant to slow down the super-elite and disperse some of the ad in those accounts to the general populous.

    I'm glad you commented here... I think players that perform at your level are the very people that the devs have targeted with the new content to help spread out the capacity to advance in game to the masses... not just the top 1% that can run the best dungeons and soak up a large percentage of the elite drops and reprice them to insane prices on the AH.

    If the super elite are so busy getting the new gear to become more super-elitier then they won't be Rofl-stomping orcus and stealing his shard. lol. and if they want to fast mode alot fo the process.. then the Fishermen, Treasure Hunters, and HE farmers are all the more blessed for it.

    Thank Goodness they are fleecing the rich to help the poor instead of just making everyone have to pay Cash to advance or take the scraps from the dungeons the super-elite leave behind.

    Again.. I respect your contribution to the general knowledge base of how to play certain classes effectively.
    But, the super farmers are one of the main problems the the game's economy. Or at least... until they finish making the changes they clearly are putting into place over the next few months.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


    FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    weaver936 said:

    But that the exact system you are defending, they have just increased grind, not decreased it , steadily in fact. Your supposed logical deduction seems un-reasonable approached to me. Can I still make millions upon millions of AD a year after this change? Yes I could.. but who cares. Like I said, the removal of keys are not , by themselves all that game breaking, its just a tipping point on what has been a disastrous amount of grind and gating.

    All I really want in all honestly is a QOL review. But your condescending and proactive tone suggests , we all know what you want.

    Big picture.. they increase the grind for ultra high end to facilitate the distribution of ad to the genral populous of the community.

    Typically the devs only provided changes that increased grind to increase sell of Zen... the Mod 10-10.5 changes ALL seem to be geared to increase grind on the elite to cause ad to flow into the pockets of the people playing at lower IL. Fishermen, treasure Hunters, HE farmers. All these roles can be filled by people that have undeveloped accounts... and the products they have to offer can be purchased by those of us who know how to make AD in more long-term and consistent manners. 50 Character Slots.. professions.. etc.. I won't go into detail.. i'm not looking to increase the numbers of my competitors :D
    You basically boil it down to AD generation, that is not why I played the game, AD generation was a vehicle for me to play with friends and guildmates. I veiw this a bit more collaboratively then you have I guess. I am not in competition with them, I dont win the game just because I make more AD then someone else. When I see friends or guildmates progress a item , get a win.. its always GRATZ from me.

    I have no idea what you made the last 12 months, maybe it was double what I make, but who cares. I roughly make between 70-80 million AD all told a year at this point, if you made 120 million AD, who cares, it has little to do with the feedback on this. The impact of the keys to me personally just changes the shift focus on how I make that AD difference.. that is all. I know people who made or have made easily double me.

    The issue here, is this change, forces anyone trying to do the new content (FBI and RAID) to basically buy keys to run the content, im sorry, regardless of what you believe, this change is going to have a overall negative impact, there is no real justification, other then the company is squeezing very hard on forcing monetization on every aspect of the game.

    I want a game I can play with other people, you seem to want a game where you can win at AD generation.. I guess the vast difference between those two positions is not going to be overcome. So lets just drop it.

  • voidgiftvoidgift Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 286 Arc User
    Soo... what is this going to mean to us? They 5 keys that have been there, declined to use 23642356234 times, are going to be spent on the 5 first worthless chests that comes. No new keys are going to be bought. A freed up slot in personal bank.
    With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.

    Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.

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  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    mahburg said:

    weaver936 said:

    weaver936 said:

    So, one suggestion... run alts.. -.-. They don't have to be BiS... get the keys from doing weeklies on your alts.. (and get the rad too)....

    You guys really need to stop thinking about everything on the surface level. There really is NO reason to have to ever buy the Zen keys except early in a new dungeon's (campaign's) life.

    I have 6 toons.. all can do FBI... all have keys stacking up... I don't have that much time to run them all through FBi everyday.. lol. I also have 3 other toons that are able to do edemo/CN...

    The changes they are making with the keys will actually make edemo useful again.. aside from the rings... you can make the Greater Demonic Keys with the currency you get from edemo.

    Also, with the chest jey change.. guess what... there's a reason to blow through MC, VT, KR, eLoL again.

    Sure it's not a 6 million AD reward like the Shard of Orcus's Wand... but who actually ever loots that thing anyways.. lol.

    Beyond that... Beyond the obvious.. pretty much every decision that the Dev's have made since Mod 7 (strongholds) has been good for the game, the game economy, normal players, and guilds )those that aren't just basically a pug with SH Boons). Initially, the community.. and even I have raged against the changes.. but as time goes on.. guess what.. I figured out the good in the changes.. took actions to capitialize on them.. and I sitting pretty,,, more or less.

    The amount of positive changes that are coming to the game in Mod 10.5 wouldn't be at all possible if the changes in Mod 10 weren't made.

    In Mod 10.5 the average player will be able to make serious ad. (ONLY BECAUSE the end gamers don't want to grind out the mats for Relic)/Vivi) This is good for guilds overall.. because 1. the players will continue to feel like they are progressing in game.. 2.. they will attain decent IL faster... and 3. they will be able to contribute to SH Coffers more readily and thereby the guild (and everyone of it members) will have access to Guild Boons that leads to faster content completion.

    Just think... if they left the game as it has been... get your gear... get your boons.. farm the best loot dungeon a billion times.. omg.. that would be moronic.... at least in Mod 10.5 there are a myriad of ways to progress.

    They only thing that's really being nerfed is the Dungeon/Gear Up autopiloting that has made this game so damn anti-social and simplistic.

    just.. shakes head.. whatever. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.. the game is more borning now then it has been in for along time. So no, none of these ground shaking decisions you seem to think is positive are really that.

    Bottom line, is the game more fun now? No its not.

    I have fun doing something challenging better than other people.. especially as part of a group of people I've known for a long time. I DON'T have fun doing something a billion times that is easy and doesn't challenge me intellectually or emotionally.

    I'm bored by constant whining from people who won't think 2 steps ahead and make good choices to deal with problems that may arise.

    I have fun interacting with Problem Solvers... not Problem Staters.

    Let's just say.. I RAAAARREEELLLYY ever have the opportunity to have fun in this game anymore.
    @weaver936
    So next mod, there are 3 chests in the new raid, each of which requires either a legendary dragon key, or a once per 20 hour key. In order to upgrade your weapons, you need legendary marks that drop inside this chest. You need more than 1 mark as well, so don't think it is a once off grind. To enter the new raid, you need to beat FBI at least once. Following your logic, the reasonable way to do this would be to get your alts up to 3.1k temporarily, run FBI once, then drop them down to 2.8k and run the raid once per day per alt with people doing similarly, so you can hopefully gear up 1 alt.

    Reality check:

    Players who are far more hardcore than you, realize this is nothing other than a cash grab. Don't even try to make a comparison between your groups and mine, you can't. This isn't about making AD, that anyone can do regardless of this change, this is about being lied to straight in the face by someone up top in Cryptic and about trying to make money off of pvp players who will pay through their teeth for any competitive advantage in mod 10b. There is no feasible way to get the new mod weapons without running the raid 1000's of times and accepting the chest every single time. If you don't pay for those legendary keys, you not getting the weapons before the next set of weapons are released, it is as simple as that.

    There speaks the voice of experience and certain knowledge, If you bail Fabricant your input will be missed on future builds that's for sure.
    Losing folk like you and Sharpedge (even though you guys are on PC and I am on Xbone) will be a significant blow to the community!
    I agree with you, but a little fun fact it is [email protected] You would miss one active, helpful and contributing player, but hey, he did more work on this games mechanic, than two Devs combined, so it is somehow fitting.^^

    PS. He is no Dev, he did not program anything. I talk about runs with ATC and different builds, gear, parties etc. resulting in more knowledge about games mechanic, than most or all of the Devs.
    .
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • ricardo1709ricardo1709 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    The change is ridiculous and preposterous. Many have said it before I did, and I wholeheartedly agree to it. The 'bug' is not a bug, it's a lie and that is the end of it. At least just be plain and open.

  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    weaver936 said:

    But that the exact system you are defending, they have just increased grind, not decreased it , steadily in fact. Your supposed logical deduction seems un-reasonable approached to me. Can I still make millions upon millions of AD a year after this change? Yes I could.. but who cares. Like I said, the removal of keys are not , by themselves all that game breaking, its just a tipping point on what has been a disastrous amount of grind and gating.

    All I really want in all honestly is a QOL review. But your condescending and proactive tone suggests , we all know what you want.

    Big picture.. they increase the grind for ultra high end to facilitate the distribution of ad to the genral populous of the community.

    Typically the devs only provided changes that increased grind to increase sell of Zen... the Mod 10-10.5 changes ALL seem to be geared to increase grind on the elite to cause ad to flow into the pockets of the people playing at lower IL. Fishermen, treasure Hunters, HE farmers. All these roles can be filled by people that have undeveloped accounts... and the products they have to offer can be purchased by those of us who know how to make AD in more long-term and consistent manners. 50 Character Slots.. professions.. etc.. I won't go into detail.. i'm not looking to increase the numbers of my competitors :D
    You basically boil it down to AD generation, that is not why I played the game, AD generation was a vehicle for me to play with friends and guildmates. I veiw this a bit more collaboratively then you have I guess. I am not in competition with them, I dont win the game just because I make more AD then someone else. When I see friends or guildmates progress a item , get a win.. its always GRATZ from me.

    I have no idea what you made the last 12 months, maybe it was double what I make, but who cares. I roughly make between 70-80 million AD all told a year at this point, if you made 120 million AD, who cares, it has little to do with the feedback on this. The impact of the keys to me personally just changes the shift focus on how I make that AD difference.. that is all. I know people who made or have made easily double me.

    The issue here, is this change, forces anyone trying to do the new content (FBI and RAID) to basically buy keys to run the content, im sorry, regardless of what you believe, this change is going to have a overall negative impact, there is no real justification, other then the company is squeezing very hard on forcing monetization on every aspect of the game.

    I want a game I can play with other people, you seem to want a game where you can win at AD generation.. I guess the vast difference between those two positions is not going to be overcome. So lets just drop it.

    I don't paly this game for myself, really.. I play it for others. The stronger my toons.. the more I can help my guildies in dungeons.. no matter their IL. The more AD I have.. the more I can help them get what they need.. and my guild too.

    This game isn't interesting to me because of the game... it's interesting because of what i can find to do to help my guildies or help them help themselves.

    I don't run with just 3k+ or w/e... I run with anyone.

    FBI and SVA are end game content... likely ran by people that already know how to be financially independent in this game. The new system fleeces them to help everyone else... now who's thinking more collaboratively?

    If someone has a good cooperative guild with intelligent players... then getting what you need really won't be so hard. Even if you would need to wait a week to turn your ad into Zen. :D.
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  • morrowind69morrowind69 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 26 Arc User
    Are we getting green companion or mount this time ?!!
  • ijsimdocijsimdoc Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    you are a bunch of greedy lying thiefs!! this is gonna make people stop playing cause I'm sure your not gonna up the drop rate of better items in the chest.
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User
    asterotg said:

    mahburg said:

    weaver936 said:

    weaver936 said:

    So, one suggestion... run alts.. -.-. They don't have to be BiS... get the keys from doing weeklies on your alts.. (and get the rad too)....

    You guys really need to stop thinking about everything on the surface level. There really is NO reason to have to ever buy the Zen keys except early in a new dungeon's (campaign's) life.

    I have 6 toons.. all can do FBI... all have keys stacking up... I don't have that much time to run them all through FBi everyday.. lol. I also have 3 other toons that are able to do edemo/CN...

    The changes they are making with the keys will actually make edemo useful again.. aside from the rings... you can make the Greater Demonic Keys with the currency you get from edemo.

    Also, with the chest jey change.. guess what... there's a reason to blow through MC, VT, KR, eLoL again.

    Sure it's not a 6 million AD reward like the Shard of Orcus's Wand... but who actually ever loots that thing anyways.. lol.

    Beyond that... Beyond the obvious.. pretty much every decision that the Dev's have made since Mod 7 (strongholds) has been good for the game, the game economy, normal players, and guilds )those that aren't just basically a pug with SH Boons). Initially, the community.. and even I have raged against the changes.. but as time goes on.. guess what.. I figured out the good in the changes.. took actions to capitialize on them.. and I sitting pretty,,, more or less.

    The amount of positive changes that are coming to the game in Mod 10.5 wouldn't be at all possible if the changes in Mod 10 weren't made.

    In Mod 10.5 the average player will be able to make serious ad. (ONLY BECAUSE the end gamers don't want to grind out the mats for Relic)/Vivi) This is good for guilds overall.. because 1. the players will continue to feel like they are progressing in game.. 2.. they will attain decent IL faster... and 3. they will be able to contribute to SH Coffers more readily and thereby the guild (and everyone of it members) will have access to Guild Boons that leads to faster content completion.

    Just think... if they left the game as it has been... get your gear... get your boons.. farm the best loot dungeon a billion times.. omg.. that would be moronic.... at least in Mod 10.5 there are a myriad of ways to progress.

    They only thing that's really being nerfed is the Dungeon/Gear Up autopiloting that has made this game so damn anti-social and simplistic.

    just.. shakes head.. whatever. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.. the game is more borning now then it has been in for along time. So no, none of these ground shaking decisions you seem to think is positive are really that.

    Bottom line, is the game more fun now? No its not.

    I have fun doing something challenging better than other people.. especially as part of a group of people I've known for a long time. I DON'T have fun doing something a billion times that is easy and doesn't challenge me intellectually or emotionally.

    I'm bored by constant whining from people who won't think 2 steps ahead and make good choices to deal with problems that may arise.

    I have fun interacting with Problem Solvers... not Problem Staters.

    Let's just say.. I RAAAARREEELLLYY ever have the opportunity to have fun in this game anymore.
    @weaver936
    So next mod, there are 3 chests in the new raid, each of which requires either a legendary dragon key, or a once per 20 hour key. In order to upgrade your weapons, you need legendary marks that drop inside this chest. You need more than 1 mark as well, so don't think it is a once off grind. To enter the new raid, you need to beat FBI at least once. Following your logic, the reasonable way to do this would be to get your alts up to 3.1k temporarily, run FBI once, then drop them down to 2.8k and run the raid once per day per alt with people doing similarly, so you can hopefully gear up 1 alt.

    Reality check:

    Players who are far more hardcore than you, realize this is nothing other than a cash grab. Don't even try to make a comparison between your groups and mine, you can't. This isn't about making AD, that anyone can do regardless of this change, this is about being lied to straight in the face by someone up top in Cryptic and about trying to make money off of pvp players who will pay through their teeth for any competitive advantage in mod 10b. There is no feasible way to get the new mod weapons without running the raid 1000's of times and accepting the chest every single time. If you don't pay for those legendary keys, you not getting the weapons before the next set of weapons are released, it is as simple as that.

    There speaks the voice of experience and certain knowledge, If you bail Fabricant your input will be missed on future builds that's for sure.
    Losing folk like you and Sharpedge (even though you guys are on PC and I am on Xbone) will be a significant blow to the community!
    I agree with you, but a little fun fact it is [email protected] You would miss one active, helpful and contributing player, but hey, he did more work on this games mechanic, than two Devs combined, so it is somehow fitting.^^

    PS. He is no Dev, he did not program anything. I talk about runs with ATC and different builds, gear, parties etc. resulting in more knowledge about games mechanic, than most or all of the Devs.
    .
    Yeah I knew that just wasn't sure if he wanted the public connection made :)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,147 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I don't know if anyone mentioned this already. It appears when there is a major disaster PR situation, Strum disappears for trip or vacation. That reminds me those crime boss stories. When he arranged a big mob attack, he went out of the country. Heck! Somehow that comes to my mind and I don't know why.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • geezer10f1geezer10f1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2 Arc User
    Timeline:
    November 8, Key -fix- goes into effect
    December 8, Cryptic notices massive player loss or loss of Zen revenue from no keys sales.
    January 8, Cryptic returns the -decline- bug button.
    February 8, Cryptic realizes that there are a ton of other mmo's out there.
    March 8, Cryptic fires whoever came up with this bright idea.
    April 8, Everyone gets an e-mail about -How the game is new and improved- and please come back.
    May 8, Cryptic realizes that the people who quit isn't coming back.
    June 8, Most of the folks who worked on NWO is now working for other mmo's.
    July 8, NWO can only be played on console---
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Odds for the Orcus Wand with this change will be like trying to win the lottery daily.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    You basically boil it down to AD generation, that is not why I played the game, AD generation was a vehicle for me to play with friends and guildmates. I veiw this a bit more collaboratively then you have I guess. I am not in competition with them, I dont win the game just because I make more AD then someone else. When I see friends or guildmates progress a item , get a win.. its always GRATZ from me.

    @silverkelt I'm in the same boat as you. I'm just here to have a good time. I'm not looking to get rich or earn fake money.

    Hell, that's why we named out Alliance "The Tuxedo T-Shirt". It's not about the damn Astral Diamonds.

    As you said, AD is just a means to an end. But that end should be fun. It should be fun to do these dungeons, go on these quests and follow the story. And traditionally the very best way to cap off a great dungeon/quest/story in D&D was to deliver on the loot.

    And the loot freaking sucks. As @thefabricant already pointed out, the grind to get even the simplest of reward is so punishing, it's sucking the joy out of Neverwinter.

    @mimicking#6533 When Drizzt and Wulfgar slew the dragon Ingeloakastimizilian, Drizzt was able to lay claim to his legendary scimitar which he named Icingdeath after the dragon. That's his iconic weapon. But he didn't go through the treasure pile and pull out a rusty battle axe, 8 copper and a peridot. Nor did he open up some ancient treasure chest to find the booby prize.

    He overcame a monumental challenge, and claimed his reward.

    Now I've been a veteran of MMOs for over 20 years now. I know how the game is played. Our "Drizzt" moment is going to be built on repetition. We're going to kill the dragon 5, 10, maybe 20 times...and then we get rewarded with our own Icydeath. And it's a great feeling that gets people excited. It makes them feel satisfied. It's the capstone that makes the journey totally worth it. And we're going to help out friends kill that dragon another 100 times so they can have their "Drizzt" moment.

    But the way the game is set up now, and going forward is not only is it so punishing to get to that "Drizzt" moment, the chances of actually getting that legendary reward is about 1 in 5000. Which leads so many players to ask, "Why bother?"

    SPOILER ALERT!!!!! Stop reading if you haven't gone through the RA Salvatore novels.

    Think about it this way. Imagine an alternate timeline where Drizzt's world is control by the same machinations as Neverwinter. What happens to Drizzt? He dies to the balor, Ertu, early in the series. He doesn't find Icingdeath in the lair of Ingeloakastimizilian. He isn't granted it's protection from fire, and when Ertu's whip wraps around his ankle and pulls him close...he dies. Burnt to a crisp if he's lucky. Sentence to eternal torture and pain at the hand of Ertu in the Abyss if he's not.

    Eternal torture and pain.

    Or decades of amazing and exciting stories that has thrilled a generation or three of readers?

    That's the choice. And it all comes down to letting your heroes have a little loot.

    And right now, what do you think a majority of players feel like? Are they the shiny hero Drizzt, wielding the might blade called Icingdeath.

    Or are they that burnt out husk, left to rot on the floor in a cave in Icewind Dale?
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    jwriams said:

    I love this part:


    "We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not..."


    Let me get this straight....

    You ADMIT that a SMALL number of people DIDN'T know about declining.
    Did it EVER occur to you to TELL THEM?

    Make an announcement. Boom.... now, everyone knows.

    Instead, you DESTROY the economics of the game to address a SMALL number of uninformed people and you call their ignorance an inequality????

    Sounds like have a place in government if you need a second career.

    +1

    This reminds me of how the US spent millions of dollars to develop a pen that wrote in zero gravity, and the russians used a pencil.

    The easy solution is right in front of you.

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