There is indeed still a matchmaking system, however it is not as efficient as one might expect since it is tuned to get players playing in a match in a shorter time frame and there is not a large enough spread of players always playing PvP. This means the folks higher ranked often get paired with lower ranked players because they play more often but also just because there aren't a huge pool of players at any given point.
In order for us to make the matchmaking better we would need to have longer queue times and/or get more players into the queues (this can be done with improving PvP in general or having better bonus times that change player behavior).
tldr; matchmaking is on, but we need more players to make it more noticeably effective.
There is indeed still a matchmaking system, however it is not as efficient as one might expect since it is tuned to get players playing in a match in a shorter time frame and there is not a large enough spread of players always playing PvP. This means the folks higher ranked often get paired with lower ranked players because they play more often but also just because there aren't a huge pool of players at any given point.
In order for us to make the matchmaking better we would need to have longer queue times and/or get more players into the queues (this can be done with improving PvP in general or having better bonus times that change player behavior).
tldr; matchmaking is on, but we need more players to make it more noticeably effective.
@panderus hi, let me just say 2 things: solo q was 3x better than duo q, still duo q is 10x times better than normal pvp we have now. its only passed like what 15 hours? well i already smashed a keyboard. second thing: i believe there is indeed a matchmaking system but is pairing more often than not the stronger players all in party like if the matchmaking is taking into account some sort of friendship (either friend list or guild association).
btw bring back the solo q as soon as possible, thanks
have you guys thought of giving players a predetermined ammount of stats when they are in PvP ?
such as it happend with Sahha balls where everyone were stripped of their stats, you can do the same of givin to everyone a certain ammount of stats... even thou this will kill the enchants...but maybe not to kill enchantments we can have like this
all rank 8 are boosted to rank 10 level and all rank 12 are downgraded to rank 10. this way the item game is closing down.
another idea is to make PvP gear with 3/4 bonuses meant for PvP similar to Stronghold weapons(2% MORE DAMAGE PER STACK) if its weared by the other 4 party members the bonus is increased..If its possible MAKE all the sets Adamant, Lionsmane , Prestige and Warborn give the same item level and share the same bonus, therefor there will be more ways for people obtaining the pvp sets that everyone is using decreasing the gap.
@metalldjt you are proposing this but were against them just stripping off Boons and Mount bonuses from PVP? Id rather have them just do that, then have them mess with changing everyones gear once they get into PVP.
The actualy "gear gap" difference CAN be made to be very small if they either remove tenacity on gear and add it to every player as a "base" or just make "decent" PVP gear very easy to obtain... Its all the boons and mount stuff that is the cause for gear gap. If we are trying to "equalize" power in PVP more, the first thing that should be done is the removal of boons and mount bonuses, THEN we can try and mess with other stuff if needed. But doing that would make it a much more level playing ground right off the bat.
+1 to macjae!!!:) Things like reintroducing diminished returns, nerfing healing from all sources etc. would also improve PVE and PVP in one go:)
Maybe it would be good to do some PVP event - like an equalized gear event running for 3 weeks or so with nice rewards...to draw more players in again and remind them/let them see how fun PVP could be and then after that easing over to a system with actual matchmaking (on top of other very good suggestions...like changes to crit, tenacity/PVP-gear availability etc.)
Why not introduce dynamic bracketing for PVP? Instead of the IL-system a "power level"-system would include everything and rate it better. No fixed brackets like 2000PL-2499PL. Instead set a maximum difference between toons in any given match (plus other possible restrictions...only one of each class..bla). This value could later be easily adjusted in the code in patches...make it bigger if q times are too high...reduce it if q times are ok in order to further improve gaming experience... Make progression (refinement etc.) easier in order to ensure there´s no loneliness at the top and to please players after major nerfage. Dual-spec would be awesome of course for a ton of reasons...but even without it...I don´t really see a problem with running around in PVP gear doing some PVE stuff while waiting for the q to pop.
If there was some proper matchmaking, a good overall gaming experience and nice rewards PVP might very well be the most exciting thing to do after you know every monster in every dungeon by name...
Well, thinking about this...considering everything it would be a major task for a sizable team...I would agree with everyone who says there are no very simple solutions at this point...they´ve clearly shot themselves in the foot by allowing the power gap to grow so big without a playerbase that is big enough for toons to be separated accordingly (in PVE and PVP) ...but one might say: they have made their bed...now they have to lie in it...OR they could just introduce more fishing and a new even more powerful weapon to make everything even more lame -.-...and do some minor changes to PVP that will not good enough in the end..
All we need is soloQ, and a matchmaking algorithm that adds up the total item level of 10 queuing players, divides that number by two, then juggles players into 2 teams whos' total item levels reasonably match that number.
Wouldn't be perfect, but it would be practical, and produce competitive matches more often than not.
There is indeed still a matchmaking system, however it is not as efficient as one might expect since it is tuned to get players playing in a match in a shorter time frame and there is not a large enough spread of players always playing PvP. This means the folks higher ranked often get paired with lower ranked players because they play more often but also just because there aren't a huge pool of players at any given point.
In order for us to make the matchmaking better we would need to have longer queue times and/or get more players into the queues (this can be done with improving PvP in general or having better bonus times that change player behavior).
tldr; matchmaking is on, but we need more players to make it more noticeably effective.
@panderus are you willing or able to comment on the observation that guildmates and friends are more likely to get grouped when they sync queues? It's highly counterproductive to the otherwise great idea of a solo queue. It should be truly random.
All we need is soloQ, and a matchmaking algorithm that adds up the total item level of 10 queuing players, divides that number by two, then juggles players into 2 teams whos' total item levels reasonably match that number.
Wouldn't be perfect, but it would be practical, and produce competitive matches more often than not.
I would suggest first to get IL more in line, repecting SH Boons, Insigniaboni, legendary mounts/mount boni like axebeak In case someone has zero tenacity he just should not be allowed to join PVP at all, get a requirement like 2500 minimum tenacity, that´s easy to obtain at level 70, otherwise it´s useless to implement a matchmaker following gear/IL only
get a requirement like 2500 minimum tenacity, that´s easy to obtain at level 70
"Easy to obtain 2.5k Tenacity at level 70" ???? Am i missing something here? because i have an old toon wearing the Elemental Burning Set and she barely has 2k Tenacity. With 2 Warborn set pieces, i get like 1700 Tenacity... So, again, am i missing something here or is just you who put "2500" instead of "1500"?? O.oUu
Take it as a guideline and stop counting peas at least any kind of minimum requirement is needed, warborn set is >2700 tenacity (4pieces), burningset is >2000, so one ring on top, guild executioner armor (blue) is 3226 tenacity ! (8pieces) so what´s the deal, you can get it for guildmarks, things are allready obtainable for every motivated player.
at least any kind of minimum requirement is needed, warborn set is >2700 tenacity (4pieces), burningset is >2000, so one ring on top, guild executioner armor (blue) is 3226 tenacity ! (8pieces) so what´s the deal, you can get it for guildmarks, things are allready obtainable for every motivated player.
The problem, then, is that you're taking into account a side of the game that not a lot of players can use at all. If you want to bring more players into PvP, what you should do is "remove walls" not put even more walls that we do have already.
EDIT and BTW: I'm a guildless player, how i can archive those amounts?? Hope you don't say "by join a big guild".
Guildless... only option is get rid of tenacity in a whole and SH boons on top that way, I would be pleased since none of those things are needed for PVP , same with axebeak, OL enchants, insignias etc. But can´t imagine this would happen, so I think in smaller steps.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
makin the tenacity DEFAULT, without placing on PvP Gear sounds DECENT to me, but you still need PvP Gear with Bonuses that work against players, such Damage increase/DR Debuff etc.
I don't really see why there's a need to separate PVP and PVE gear, if tenacity is put on the character. You're always welcome to carry a second chestpiece if you want, with different enchants, and perhaps assault instead of raid, for example.
because a PVP set that gives a certain DAMAGE 4/4 bonus against Players, won\t affect PvE .. LOL
This doesnt make sense... They ADDED tenacity to reduce damage against other players, why add it back with more set bonuses and stats? Why not just REDUCE the amount of tenacity as it accomplishes the same thing....
I don't really see why there's a need to separate PVP and PVE gear, if tenacity is put on the character. You're always welcome to carry a second chestpiece if you want, with different enchants, and perhaps assault instead of raid, for example.
This is part of the issue. Back when they released tenacity I liked it at first MAINLY because they released heal depression which was a big problem in PVP. So rather than having fights last forever, it became that you slowly whittled down your opponent since his self healing was halved. In order to make sure fights lasted longer they made tenacity. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Fast forward several years (has it really been years?!) and now each and every module the DEVs have to create TWO sets of content. Content that is relevant to PVE players and then content that is relative to PVP players. You also now need TWO sets of gear because of this and many new players have a hard time even getting said gear. Let alone even if they get a decent "base" set of tenacity gear, the extra tenacity that is provided from Lionsmaine is HUGE.
Not only that, but now we are in a WORSE position than before heal depress - with regards to self healing. So its all just ludicrous now...
What they need to do is NOT make you have 2 sets of gear. PVP should merely be ONE avenue of getting good gear. Tenacity should be removed off ALL gear, all set bonuses, everything and allow players to choose what gear they want to use in PVP. If they want to use their PVE gear, that should be just as fine as using gear obtained through PVP.... Now you will have more choices for players to gear up than before and less issues with non-PVP geared players going into PVP and getting WRECKED.
The beauty of this, is that now when they release a new dungeon with new gear, many PVPers might actually care to farm said dungeon because they like a piece or two of the gear - FOR PVP. They can release new PVP sets and many player will get them, just for the looks of the gear or for the sake of just having it... But there is no reason to force players to have two sets of gear or for PVP gear to give special pvp advantages.
This means the folks higher ranked often get paired with lower ranked players because they play more often but also just because there aren't a huge pool of players at any given point.
Chicken or the egg? Low population partly because undergeared players are miserable being stomped all the time.
If PvP was given the attention of a full PvE mod, the population would soar. Improve matchmaking, fix ELO, a third domination map maybe.. Rewards better than unidentified green/blue loot..
@ayroux it does make sense, because the point of tenacity is to decrease the gap of normal damage and critical damage, and it does it quite good, dont get me wrong, i do like the idea of having DEFAULT TENACITY without having at as a stat on gear, but the 4/4 bonus should be somethin similar to the stronghold weapons as in if all 5 players use it, it would increase your damage or attack speed etc.
ofc the idea is to have 4 places that you can obtain these pvp sets, and it doesnt matter which pieces you use all of them would unlock the same bonus as it happens if u use duelist/executioner combo.
so you can achieve Adamant set from MW, Warborn with tramalune bar store, Prestige from trade bar store, and Lionsmane from the Stronghold Siege (which needs to be reworked to a 2 lane map)
a way to give to a full party more damage and resistance...we do really need it. something like twisted weapon bonus would be more than enough
You just dont get it dude. You are advocating for MORE gear gap...
I own the SH weapons, so you arent telling me anything I dont know by linking it. Let me explain in a basic way.
Tenacity - REDUCES damage in PVP. tenacity is needed because without it people deal too much damage. Its BAD because it creates a gear gap that forces all players to have multiple sets of gear and divides the community and makes PVE gear useless for PVE.
Solution - remove tenacity on gear so that you can use ANY gear to enter PVP, even PVE gear. Now new players and PVE players dont have the gear gap anylonger and now NEW PVE sets that come out are relevant to PVP.
LAncer: Yeah and then we should put set bonuses that make everyone deal more damage and take less damge on PVP sets...
Do you not see how it inconsistant. We have tenacity to reduce damage, we remove it from gear to give to players to make it more fair, you want to THEN make it less fair by adding BACK gear gap and REDUCING the effect of "tenacity" by adding "PVP damage only" items.
We need to STOP putting up walls between the PVE and PVP community. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH PVP
Comments
In order for us to make the matchmaking better we would need to have longer queue times and/or get more players into the queues (this can be done with improving PvP in general or having better bonus times that change player behavior).
tldr; matchmaking is on, but we need more players to make it more noticeably effective.
second thing: i believe there is indeed a matchmaking system but is pairing more often than not the stronger players all in party like if the matchmaking is taking into account some sort of friendship (either friend list or guild association).
btw bring back the solo q as soon as possible, thanks
Id rather have them just do that, then have them mess with changing everyones gear once they get into PVP.
The actualy "gear gap" difference CAN be made to be very small if they either remove tenacity on gear and add it to every player as a "base" or just make "decent" PVP gear very easy to obtain... Its all the boons and mount stuff that is the cause for gear gap. If we are trying to "equalize" power in PVP more, the first thing that should be done is the removal of boons and mount bonuses, THEN we can try and mess with other stuff if needed. But doing that would make it a much more level playing ground right off the bat.
@panderus did you happen to look at my proposal that details all this out? http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1223273/the-real-issue-with-pvp-and-what-cryptic-can-do-to-fix-it-it-isnt-premades/p1
And then for matchmaking the solution seems very simple as well:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1223443/matchmaking-introducing-a-new-pvp-level-for-better-matchmaking-suggestion
Maybe it would be good to do some PVP event - like an equalized gear event running for 3 weeks or so with nice rewards...to draw more players in again and remind them/let them see how fun PVP could be and then after that easing over to a system with actual matchmaking (on top of other very good suggestions...like changes to crit, tenacity/PVP-gear availability etc.)
Why not introduce dynamic bracketing for PVP? Instead of the IL-system a "power level"-system would include everything and rate it better. No fixed brackets like 2000PL-2499PL. Instead set a maximum difference between toons in any given match (plus other possible restrictions...only one of each class..bla). This value could later be easily adjusted in the code in patches...make it bigger if q times are too high...reduce it if q times are ok in order to further improve gaming experience...
Make progression (refinement etc.) easier in order to ensure there´s no loneliness at the top and to please players after major nerfage.
Dual-spec would be awesome of course for a ton of reasons...but even without it...I don´t really see a problem with running around in PVP gear doing some PVE stuff while waiting for the q to pop.
If there was some proper matchmaking, a good overall gaming experience and nice rewards PVP might very well be the most exciting thing to do after you know every monster in every dungeon by name...
Well, thinking about this...considering everything it would be a major task for a sizable team...I would agree with everyone who says there are no very simple solutions at this point...they´ve clearly shot themselves in the foot by allowing the power gap to grow so big without a playerbase that is big enough for toons to be separated accordingly (in PVE and PVP) ...but one might say: they have made their bed...now they have to lie in it...OR they could just introduce more fishing and a new even more powerful weapon to make everything even more lame -.-...and do some minor changes to PVP that will not good enough in the end..
Wouldn't be perfect, but it would be practical, and produce competitive matches more often than not.
@panderus are you willing or able to comment on the observation that guildmates and friends are more likely to get grouped when they sync queues? It's highly counterproductive to the otherwise great idea of a solo queue. It should be truly random.
In case someone has zero tenacity he just should not be allowed to join PVP at all, get a requirement like 2500 minimum tenacity, that´s easy to obtain at level 70, otherwise it´s useless to implement a matchmaker following gear/IL only
at least any kind of minimum requirement is needed, warborn set is >2700 tenacity (4pieces), burningset is >2000, so one ring on top, guild executioner armor (blue) is 3226 tenacity ! (8pieces) so what´s the deal, you can get it for guildmarks, things are allready obtainable for every motivated player.
But can´t imagine this would happen, so I think in smaller steps.
@santralafax nailed it: This is part of the issue. Back when they released tenacity I liked it at first MAINLY because they released heal depression which was a big problem in PVP. So rather than having fights last forever, it became that you slowly whittled down your opponent since his self healing was halved. In order to make sure fights lasted longer they made tenacity. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Fast forward several years (has it really been years?!) and now each and every module the DEVs have to create TWO sets of content. Content that is relevant to PVE players and then content that is relative to PVP players. You also now need TWO sets of gear because of this and many new players have a hard time even getting said gear. Let alone even if they get a decent "base" set of tenacity gear, the extra tenacity that is provided from Lionsmaine is HUGE.
Not only that, but now we are in a WORSE position than before heal depress - with regards to self healing. So its all just ludicrous now...
What they need to do is NOT make you have 2 sets of gear. PVP should merely be ONE avenue of getting good gear. Tenacity should be removed off ALL gear, all set bonuses, everything and allow players to choose what gear they want to use in PVP. If they want to use their PVE gear, that should be just as fine as using gear obtained through PVP.... Now you will have more choices for players to gear up than before and less issues with non-PVP geared players going into PVP and getting WRECKED.
The beauty of this, is that now when they release a new dungeon with new gear, many PVPers might actually care to farm said dungeon because they like a piece or two of the gear - FOR PVP. They can release new PVP sets and many player will get them, just for the looks of the gear or for the sake of just having it... But there is no reason to force players to have two sets of gear or for PVP gear to give special pvp advantages.
Low population partly because undergeared players are miserable being stomped all the time.
If PvP was given the attention of a full PvE mod, the population would soar.
Improve matchmaking, fix ELO, a third domination map maybe..
Rewards better than unidentified green/blue loot..
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
something like twisted weapon bonus would be more than enough
I own the SH weapons, so you arent telling me anything I dont know by linking it. Let me explain in a basic way.
Tenacity - REDUCES damage in PVP. tenacity is needed because without it people deal too much damage. Its BAD because it creates a gear gap that forces all players to have multiple sets of gear and divides the community and makes PVE gear useless for PVE.
Solution - remove tenacity on gear so that you can use ANY gear to enter PVP, even PVE gear. Now new players and PVE players dont have the gear gap anylonger and now NEW PVE sets that come out are relevant to PVP.
LAncer: Yeah and then we should put set bonuses that make everyone deal more damage and take less damge on PVP sets...
Do you not see how it inconsistant. We have tenacity to reduce damage, we remove it from gear to give to players to make it more fair, you want to THEN make it less fair by adding BACK gear gap and REDUCING the effect of "tenacity" by adding "PVP damage only" items.
We need to STOP putting up walls between the PVE and PVP community. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH PVP