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Archon companions vs. crit severity companions

devlin#3775 devlin Member Posts: 142 Arc User
edited September 2016 in The Temple
So as a PS4 player we recently got a new lockbox which includes all of the archon companions..People must be buying keys like mad because these companions are pretty cheap (compared to the fire archon yesterday anyway),

So, with a high crit build (ala Ambers) it seems pretty obvious crit severity pets would outperform the archons. But I'm wondering at what point of crit rate do the Archon companions become a superior choice? Lets say in the 30-40% range?

Follow up question: Is the water archons active bonus as bad as it reads? (its bonus is "Increase your damage against targets by 6.0% against targets at full health"). I mean it sounds obvious, but does that mean their actual full health (ie. if you do 1 damage this bonus is null), or is it percentage based (still kinda useless buy perhaps better if it still counted until 99% health?)

2nd Follow up question: Assuming the water archon bonus is useless, BUT assuming the archons are better then crit severity companions, would the water archon still be worth slotting just to give that extra 0.5% to all the other archons?

My thought would be the 4 archons (for extra 2% to all active bonus for archons) + the siege master? Then it would look kinda like:

Start of combat (assuming you attack first): 12% damage boost (8% from water + 4% from siege master)
First half of combat (assuming full health most of the time): 19% damage boost (7% from air + 8% from earth + 4% from siege master)
Last half of comabat (still assuming full health most of the time): 28% boost (7% from air + 8% from earth + 9% from fire + 4% from siege master)

Or currently we have 2 pets on PS4 with crit severity (the dancing blade: 5% crit severity and the erinyes of belial 10% crit severity). Would those be a smarter choice?

As of right now I have siege master, fire archon, dancing blade, Erinyes of belial, shadow demon (summoned).

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    putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    depends what you mean by performs. Archons will create more dps than crit severity pets for people who have high crit from boons and weapon enchant already. However, dps bonus does not improve your heals. If your focusing on a high dps build, you can follow the same builds as other classes in regard to companion use.
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    devlin#3775 devlin Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Ah I'm not looking for a high dps build, simply to better my dps to while playing support. I can see your point on how the archons wouldn't help on heals (vs crit severity companions). But the only "heal" I ever really have slotted is divine glow anyway.

    So, in a nutshell though what you're saying is regardless of your crit chance (even at 100%?) , the archons would create higher dps then the crit severity companions?
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    jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    AD wise, ignore archons but invest in bonding stones. Those gives u more dps and flexibility than epic/legendary fire/wind archon. You should have arp up to 60% without using SH boon to deal good dps while supporting. Just stack power and arp to be effective in every field of pve and pvp, unless u like the 100% crit build putz used, but that is an expensive end game pve dps build, dont try unless u have like 20 mil AD in bank.
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    devlin#3775 devlin Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    I have 3 rank 12 bonding runestones so set there. And I have 60% arp (with the help of companion anyway).

    I'm not following putz's build. I'm essentially following Jareks. But his companion (active ones anyway) indicate the crit severity options. Presumably, that's because, as putz mentioned, it adds to damage and healing.

    I'm just curious (speaking strictly about dmg), if there is a crit rate % where crit severity out damages % dmg bonuses. I assumed that with putz's build (right around 100% crit rate), that crit severity would do more damage than % dmg bonus (though putzs response has me questioning this).

    But in Jareks build (I think he's kicking around 40% crit chance), would it be better to use the archons? I know dmg isn't my priority, but may as well do as much dmg as I can do, I figure.

    Even with putz's build, I think I remember him saying he's kicking around 185% (?!!?!?) crit severity. IF the +dmg bonus companions do more damage even in his scenario, I'd think they would definitely be the better option in a lower crit world, no?
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    putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    It's all tied to your crit chance, crit severity, and power. I'll give you an example. I have 183.5 crit severity and a 100% crit chance. If my guild got the mercenary outpost i could slot that 15% crit severity boon, and for simple maths we will say 20K power. My damage based on sharps math logic is 42,525 without the 15% crit severity bonus. With the Crit Severity bonus it would be 44,775. That's an increase of 5.3%. The challenge is that you cannot increase crit chance after 100%, so once your crit severity exceeds 100% you don't get a 1% dps increase for each 1% of crit severity.
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    devlin#3775 devlin Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    Ok that helped a lot. Thanks putz! I've obviously heard of sharp and definitely trust his numbers but don't know how to emulate them using the 10% crit sev belial companion. Nevertheless, it would be less than 5.3%.

    So in that case, I assume except for the water archon, the other 3 would be a better choice (speaking strictly for dps) then the belial?

    So perhaps (for me), the best case scenario would be siege master, air archon, fire archon, earth archon, belial; with either the air or fire as active.
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    ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I want to try out DPS DC with Divinity Searing Light. Not sure if it's viable, having a 2.2k IL only. Only to picked it up because I need a break from front-role striker.
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    lerapiso818lerapiso818 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 92 Arc User
    Crit severity is pretty bad from a pure dps point of view.

    - Simple math, if you've 100%crit chance and 150% crit severity (100% & perfect+ vorpal), that means all your damage will be multiplicated by 2.5. If you add a 10% crit severity pet it goes up to 2.6.
    2.6/2.5 = 1.04, so this is a 4% dmg increase, but the more you get critical severity, the less it's effective.
    And there is a second point.

    - Fire of the god can't crit, so your critical severity will be only effective on 85% of your total damage (assuming DotG do 15% of your damage), the 4% from the first point become 3.4%


    Conclusion : 5% crit severity (Dancing blade) is trash for dps, 10% crit severity is good for the heal + dps increase, but for dps only there is better option.
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    ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    So, stacking power is the only way to go to increase dps rather than invest in 100% crit. Is it okay for a full power build in order to dps?
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    lerapiso818lerapiso818 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    So, stacking power is the only way to go to increase dps rather than invest in 100% crit. Is it okay for a full power build in order to dps?

    Depends of your playstyle and your stats, if you're AC spamming AA, playing with WoL, the 15%power bob feat and 3 bonding r12, power is almost always better than crit.
    If you're DO with just WoL and 3r12 bonding, crit can be better than power depending of your actual crit chance, power, crit severity.
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    bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    You can download the excel file "Power & Crit Optimization" in my signature, it allows you to calculate how much increased crit severity increases your dmg.

    If your crit sev is already very high, then further increasing it would not be effective because of diminishing return.

    My choice of 5 pets for DPS would be:
    1. siege master
    2. belial
    3. air archon
    4. fire archon
    5. earth archon (situational)/shadow demon (high dmg)/repentant dragon cultist

    Water archon seems pretty useless imo, except for solo content/clearing trash.
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    putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
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