OP vs GF MOD 10

pr3stigex

How have the changes panned out for mod 10?
Is everyone still asking for GF's in chat, or are pallies getting love?
Are the buff on par now?
Any other input is welcome. Deciding which to gear.

pr3stigex

Don't all comment at once the servers might crash. lol

treesclimber

In terms of buffs they stand more or less in the same plate now exept OP is more class specific, for example, not all classes have such a need for recharce speed has others and the aura of courage varies a lot between CW and TR for example, imo you should go with the one you like the most.

pr3stigex

LOL I don't know which I like more. I'm really weird, I like the spears available for the GF, I like the combat of a OP, it seems less clunky. But I hate the sound the OP makes with divine call. GF has valor where the OP has to spam a daily to achieve the same benefit. I'm sure there is more. lol

Thank you for your response

mamalion1234

knight valor is pvp encounter.
IF i can use enforced threat frontline surge-into the fray-threatening rush can monsters attack any other player? or i have to protect the player wanted to go first no thanks.

lantern22

I like playing my GF in Dungeons the most, dailies is not so good but is still OK.

I've never played OP so can't comment there.

In the some of the 3K channels there appears to be a slight shift to ppl asking for "Tanks" now, as opposed to asking for GF's before Mod 10. Hopefully that means its balanced up a bit and the OPs are getting a fair share of party requests. Certainly haven't noticed ppl not wanting GF's. Not sure about LFG, don't use that much.

Not sure I'd call KV and PvP encounter, especially in pug runs, its pretty hand. I don't really like it tho, secretly I was hoping it would get nerfed enough that we wouldn't have to use it!!

asterotg

I dont play OP, but GF got seriously nerfed. Without old ITF he lost his best feat, imo. Friends testing FBI on preview told me, that the OP has a better surviveability now and with bane etc more buffs. Based on their words I would say, OP.

revan06100

mamalion1234 said:

knight valor is pvp encounter.
IF i can use enforced threat frontline surge-into the fray-threatening rush can monsters attack any other player? or i have to protect the player wanted to go first no thanks.

KV is not just PVP, when you tag without a heal, other players are quite happy to take 50% less damages, and if you have a good character, then it shouldn't be a problem for you, at least in 1600 dungeons...

emilemo

asterotg said:

I dont play OP, but GF got seriously nerfed. Without old ITF he lost his best feat, imo. Friends testing FBI on preview told me, that the OP has a better surviveability now and with bane etc more buffs. Based on their words I would say, OP.

Im not saying you're wrong but forming opinions based on hearsay its not the way to go also a tanker OP should have the best survivability in the game period so no need to compare them in that regard. GF are by no means bad/weak/whatever. They were overperforming and still are top dogs in pvp. For pve ITF is still very good, you get speed, you get AP gen, you get damage, calling it useless like some folks have is simply ridiculous.
As for OP vs GF, personally I find the OP easier for tanking, not better, easier. But thats just me. I like lazy gameplay and Im not ashamed to admit it. I spent all day dealing with frantic people, belated orders and demanding e-mails so when I sit to play my game I wanna relax. Pally gives me that. On the other hand its been a long time since I ran my GF in a pve dungeon so I guess I'd suck as a tank if real tanking is required (for really big hit bosses). I reached 70 with him last night with 2.7 IL and ran a few dwarven thrones where I made the runs faster via ITF and also ended up near the top on paingiver and top on immovable object..soo in the modest to middle IL range the GF works. In the high end IL range the GF is a beast. In the super low IL range the GF is garbage like any other class because this is a gear dependent game

Generally I dont see a problem here and people should just pick the class they like more.

asterotg

emilemo said:

asterotg said:

I dont play OP, but GF got seriously nerfed. Without old ITF he lost his best feat, imo. Friends testing FBI on preview told me, that the OP has a better surviveability now and with bane etc more buffs. Based on their words I would say, OP.

Im not saying you're wrong but forming opinions based on hearsay its not the way to go also a tanker OP should have the best survivability in the game period so no need to compare them in that regard. GF are by no means bad/weak/whatever. They were overperforming and still are top dogs in pvp. For pve ITF is still very good, you get speed, you get AP gen, you get damage, calling it useless like some folks have is simply ridiculous.
As for OP vs GF, personally I find the OP easier for tanking, not better, easier. But thats just me. I like lazy gameplay and Im not ashamed to admit it. I spent all day dealing with frantic people, belated orders and demanding e-mails so when I sit to play my game I wanna relax. Pally gives me that. On the other hand its been a long time since I ran my GF in a pve dungeon so I guess I'd suck as a tank if real tanking is required (for really big hit bosses). I reached 70 with him last night with 2.7 IL and ran a few dwarven thrones where I made the runs faster via ITF and also ended up near the top on paingiver and top on immovable object..soo in the modest to middle IL range the GF works. In the high end IL range the GF is a beast. In the super low IL range the GF is garbage like any other class because this is a gear dependent game

Generally I dont see a problem here and people should just pick the class they like more.

There is a difference between pure hearsay and opinions based on experience, mine or other players.

If any PuG would say, thats good or bad, I would not give it much credit. If, as is, another beta player and one of the best PvE players I know tells me, that, based on his test runs on preview, OP is the better tank atm, I take it at face value.

thefabricant

GF still provides better buffs than OP in most circumstances, although there are some exceptions(GF buffs are multiplicative, OP buffs are not) and a GF who has adapted to the current mod and gone the DPS route can throw out those buffs while doing DPS competitive with a CW/TR/HR/SW, whilst also being able to tank content up to and including FBI. However, both OP and GF are welcome in a party with me.

When an OP can buff more than a GF:
1) When in a low buff/debuff party. (So the OP debuff bane is stronger relative to the strength of the other debuffs and thus provides a bigger boost.)
2) When in a low DPS party, AoC will provide a huge boost relative to the DPS of the party members.
3) When playing a fully BiS power build.

With that being said, they cannot match a GF for DPS, although they are arguably better at tanking. So its a toss up between the 2.

sm0ld3r

Don't auras affect all allies within range whereas ITF only affects party members?

Doesn't that give the OP an edge in content like DF, Tia, Demo and Big HEs?

thefabricant

sm0ld3r said:

Don't auras affect all allies within range whereas ITF only affects party members?

Doesn't that give the OP an edge in content like DF, Tia, Demo and Big HEs?

That is true, but for the most part, nobody really cares about group composition for tiamat anyhow, people just zerg it.

pr3stigex

Nice, thanks guys. Looks like they are both still very viable. Making my decision harder. If I didn't already have my pally to 2.7k with decent boon progress the decision would be easy since I like the GF more, asthetics, moves, and play style etc.
My GF is only 62 right now lol. But I can see him being more challenging to tank with the block mechanic is not as forgiving as an OP.

marnival

pr3stigex said:

Nice, thanks guys. Looks like they are both still very viable. Making my decision harder. If I didn't already have my pally to 2.7k with decent boon progress the decision would be easy since I like the GF more, asthetics, moves, and play style etc.
My GF is only 62 right now lol. But I can see him being more challenging to tank with the block mechanic is not as forgiving as an OP.

OP is by far easer to tank with face down.
Good part its very easy to equip a new 70 due to talmund store selling armor (boots chest)both pve and pvp.
OP:s dont need to bother due to everything going on temp hp while a new GF can struggle a bit in doing dailys in new zone.

Fun part with GF is ofc that they can dish out alot more damage (unless you have bear cub) as OP.

diogene0

Both are still completely broken with infinite self-heals and infinite temp HP as no one is looking for healers.

flyersfan314

I am a GF but my friends tell me I am inferior to OBPs and it makes me feel bad.

mamalion1234

diogene0 said:

Both are still completely broken with infinite self-heals and infinite temp HP as no one is looking for healers.

while i agree i have fighter recovery + guard assault but is not so easy to do that. Is not that i dont want healers. CAN the healer heal me at the right time and not spamming the buttons to bring the aa up? MANY times healers with bastion they dont have it and they just watching me die. SO i will use my daily and my passive if they cant heal.

carl103

It all comes down to some complicated things. AoC is a potentially massive DPS boost as it benefit from the recipient's own power and other multipliers so it's a lot bigger than first pass might make you think. And for anyone that needs the cooldown boost again hugely powerful. The problem is there are some builds and classes that have very low hit rates or which don't need much cooldown reduction due to self buff's, (though i expect that to go down over time, they don't keep putting recovery on endgame gear for giggles). But for classes that hit often and want recovery hard, (GWF's for example, all those self buffs make AoC huge and the hits per second of GWF is high), those two effects are huge. Even at 80k health i was seeing very high, (relative to myself, upto around 200k seen), DPS classes pulling 20%+ of their damage of the back of AoC. SO get me in much better gear and enchants pushing my health waaaay higher and you could see some truly immense numbers, and AoW isn't somthing a DPS log shows, (though oddly i've got some odd log results recently when it comes to recovery and GWF's, but i suspect it's a dummy issue rather than an actual "live" thing).

berytak

From my personal experience, I do prefer GFs. I have to admit, that I don't play the classes, but I see them from the other side with my GWF. And the major problem I have with OPs is, that they can't hold aggro. I've been in many dungeons and events, but regardless how well they were geared, I've never been in a group with an OP who can't hold aggro. It just takes some well placed hits and he loses aggro.
Therefor I prefer GFs, because I'm not getting smashed by enemies and due to better controlled positioning.
But that are just my two cents

thefabricant

carl103 said:

It all comes down to some complicated things. AoC is a potentially massive DPS boost as it benefit from the recipient's own power and other multipliers so it's a lot bigger than first pass might make you think. And for anyone that needs the cooldown boost again hugely powerful. The problem is there are some builds and classes that have very low hit rates or which don't need much cooldown reduction due to self buff's, (though i expect that to go down over time, they don't keep putting recovery on endgame gear for giggles). But for classes that hit often and want recovery hard, (GWF's for example, all those self buffs make AoC huge and the hits per second of GWF is high), those two effects are huge. Even at 80k health i was seeing very high, (relative to myself, upto around 200k seen), DPS classes pulling 20%+ of their damage of the back of AoC. SO get me in much better gear and enchants pushing my health waaaay higher and you could see some truly immense numbers, and AoW isn't somthing a DPS log shows, (though oddly i've got some odd log results recently when it comes to recovery and GWF's, but i suspect it's a dummy issue rather than an actual "live" thing).

AoC does show in ACT and its roughly an 18% dps boost. Bane is roughly a 10% dps boost for all 3 stacks combined. That cooldown reduction feat has no way to be measured properly, but as I play CW and have near non existent cooldowns already, I don't rate it that highly. Both of those boosts together are less than ITF and GF has ITF+Commander's Strike. It ultimately boils down to how much power the OP can give you with aura gifts.

treesclimber

Exactly aura gifts is crazy powerfull, it's not a mistery how to get +90k power for a paladin in dungeons specially after it got easier to increase power on damage taken, and even with weapon's of light fix that power can be further increase by dark revelry/anointed army, other aura gift.

carl103

AoC does show in ACT and its roughly an 18% dps boost. Bane is roughly a 10% dps boost for all 3 stacks combined. That cooldown reduction feat has no way to be measured properly, but as I play CW and have near non existent cooldowns already, I don't rate it that highly. Both of those boosts together are less than ITF and GF has ITF+Commander's Strike. It ultimately boils down to how much power the OP can give you with aura gifts.

Where did i say ACT does not show Aoc? Like i said i'm seeing values over 20% at very low gear levels, but at the same time i'm also specifying that from memory from who were pulling really high DPS numbers 150k+, and i don't think i've been with a non-GWF who can pull that, (i know it can be done, they've just never ended up in the PuG queue with me), i'd have to go back through the logs files i'm afraid and double check to be sure. And that was back when i still only had like 80 odd K health. I've got upto 107k since then but i've stopped running the Underdark skirmishes atm as i get more for my time from the Demonic HE's in Dread ring unless it's a quiet period.

But like i said it comes back to class, last night in anticipation of someone disputing my claim about GWF hitting often i went and took my CW to the dummy's, (i had a GWF parse from earlier in the night), and went at it, and after deducting hits from stuff i'm pretty sure won't trigger AoC, (various DoT's), the CW and GWF were basically tied in hits per second over the parse, albeit my GWF because they're both very lowly geared ATM has a lot more room for improvement. So class absolutely makes a huge difference in it's effect because some classes are getting more hits per second in on average. Also some classes average bigger damage buffs for AoC. A CW is good, a GWF is incomparably better, (in fact GWF probably benefit the hardest from AoC, they're a perfect storm of features atm to get the most out of it).

slappdaniel

gf and op with 4k+ ilvl are pretty even now if they both go damage path. gfs still do abit more damage while ops are in exchange better in buffing/debuffing.