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GWF as a Tank
mebengalsfan
Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
I am currently playing a DC with a IL around 2500. Due to all the bugs on PS4 most end game dungeons cannot be played. I am considering creating a GWF as a tank. Is this a viable end game tank? I'm asking as I would prefer to tank as a GWF vs. being a GF or a Paladin.
Please feel free to share info on viability of GWF as a tank for end game.
Please feel free to share info on viability of GWF as a tank for end game.
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https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
If GWF and GF are truly separate class given them their own unique feats and don't have them share anything. I mean both share the same feats and paragon path and even some of the paragon abilities. That just makes no sense to me, it does from a D&D prospective but not as a MMO.
I know GF is getting updated with Mod 10. Will GF be updated with the next mod?
The core of the issue is this though. An actual tank in this game needs to cap their damage resistance stat, (80%), push their deflect nice and high, (not sure exactly how high real top end gear level tanks are), and stack some other form of damage reduction on top.
I'm not too up on GF tanking mechanics but it's my understanding they rely on staying behind their shield which gives them a seperate 80% damage reduction modifier on top of their actual normal damage reduction. So GF's are taking like 4% of the total damage aimed at them before deflection is factored in.
Paladins are all about stacking some other form of damage reduction, (either a 50% cut from a couple of sources or short lived flat immunity for a very short period via a daily), with the ability to gain temp HP = to their total health every handful of seconds.
A GWF has nothing like that kind of capability. Even if you could magically get deflect to 100% you'd still be a fair ways behind the Paladin because the paladin gets damage reduction = to 100% deflection rates plus his own actual deflection plus a large chunk of temporary HP. Unstopable and most of the GWF tanking feats are worthless for actual tanking however because they focus heavily on damage reduction which is actually rather easy to cap, (it didn't used to be anywhere near as easy a long time ago, but thats then and this is now), and the temp HP provided by unstoppable is nowhere near as great as a paladin gets and nowhere near as frequent outside of destroyer spec.
Destroyer spec on the other hand, well, here a quote from memory of how i described the 60-70 leveling experience in it in protector's enclave chat a few days ago:
"You'll start the fight hitting like a wet paper bag, 5%, maybe 10% of each enemy's health per swing if your lucky and all the while they're ripping off 10% of your own health per hit per enemy, your health plummets downward towards 20%, then suddenly all your buffs align, unstoppable comes up and everything dies in two hits from full health. You go from zero to god in 2 seconds flat"
In that spec it puts out VERY good DPS, and it's probably the most survivable of the DPS classes IMO, (hence why it gets the hate in PVP), but it's nowhere near even as close to as tough as an actual tank.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
It doesnt have true mechanics of a tank and when they were tanks, they were doing it with lots of temp hp and holding aggro via specific damage encounters. Simply put until mod 6, you didnt EVER need a tank and until they revamped the GF to add a buffs with them, you never used one. GWFS were simply one of the better options to the first damage dispersal on mobs and bosses, due to a ton of temp hps and more mechanics then other classes, but you could do the same with any of the classes up to that point, you just learned how (a dc was in fact not a bad class to do this, but any of the other classes could do it as well.
They vastly toned down over and over the ability of GWFS to be the main tank and added reasons to have a real one. So at this point, most content is done faster with a tank then without one.
Another way to put it, any and all content that a GWF can tank really, another class can as well. t1s/t2s even CN can all be done tankless, in fact in CN, a range with a pet is easier then a GWF .. they both rely on pets, but its actually easier with a CW or SW to finish off, as they dont get into the melee swipe range that the GWF has to deal with.
Do we need a rework, hell yeah, are there class more in need of it, hell yeah.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
If you wanna play a tank, roll The Guardian Fighter.
Dead🔪No it would take months, as it took with SW, HR and GF.
By the time a set of changes reaches us it;s been in the pipeline for months beforehand. they actually talked about this in one of the blogs, they sat down to start the process of sorting out SW, GF, and HR 3 months before we saw the blogs.
And that would still be completely inadequate for the job. Something like a paladin between DR skills, immunity periods, deflect, defence and Temp HP gain can reduce incoming damage taken to 5% or less whilst self healing for 30K HPS+. Even at the deflection cap a GWF is still going to be taking 10%, and Restoring Strike + Unstoppable manage a fraction of the Paladins HPS. Not that it will matter because the GWF's total effective health including unstoppable is still going to be so low that combined with his relatively awful damage reduction %'s he's going to get one shotted every time.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
It's really unstoppable thats to blame. All our other survival capabilities are horrifically bad, but unstoppable combined with destroyers means the more damage you do, the more survivable you are. It's an horrific combo for PVP balance.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
Before mod 6, I used a Dwarf GWF (+2 CON, +2 STR), Seldarine Set and this build (feats shown only):
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/gwf?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13ilx00:1000000:1uu0000:1z05z51&h=0&p=ivn&o=0
Combined with 'Weapon Master' and 'Ferocious Reaction' It made me definitely more 'tanky'.
Never tested it after mod 6.
I would be all for this change. I don't know why the Fighter class is the lone class where we have two options. It should be one with a swap from a DPS to Tank by going 2H (DPS) and go to S&S (tank). I would like this update and it would make sense to me.
I know I get some flame for this but as a long time D&D players and someone who has played other MMOs, having two fighter class listed simply makes no sense to me.
If the devs actually wanted to I would just combine the classes and call it Fighter and let the two paragon path be Guardian and Great Weapon. That to me would be a better design and play wise. The fighter mechanic would be S&S and 2H. I personally would have preferred that type of setup.
However, NW went about creating two separate classes and that is ok to if both can play as a DPS and tank. I have yet to play either at end game but really was hoping for a decent tank build with GWF but that seems nearly impossible to achieve.
I started a GF but I'm bored to death using it. Sorry S&S is not my type of figher, never has been. I like tanking but I hate S&S and want to play as a tank using 2H.
I really hope the devs will do something to make GWF a viable end game tank in their next update. I rally want to play a GWF as a tank.
Instigator was always a mess, you cant tell me it was ever useful when compared to either the old destroyer builds or the old sentital builds, since mod 1.
GWF is a damage dealer. Simple as that..
I would rather see GF become less of a DPS striker and more of a tank!
These two classes always were a mess, they shouldve made it ONE class, or completely 100% make it separate from the start.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
...possible, but not confirmed.
...possible, but not confirmed.
Let me tell you how that will go in top end content at least (current time frame ofc).
Boss Swings, -> GWF take over 100% of hitpoints, -> procs go off, -> GWF is dead so procs do nothing, -> GWF is dead.
You just can't build enough sources of damage reduction plus enough raw health plus enough HPS into a GWF to take boss level hits for more than a few seconds even with procs and dedicated healers going off, let alone the massive cooldown on ferocious reaction.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
I would like to see personals that increase health, AC, and deflection that make GWF more tanky. Along with feats that boost those personals, making them stronger.
I know what I want to play, but not being able to play said class in said way is very disappointing.