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Amber Gristle O'maul DO Righteous Build - Mod 9

putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited June 2017 in The Temple
Putz DC Build… It’s not a guide




Intro


I’m Putz. I’ve been playing Neverwinter since Beta and am a proud Myrmidon (Relentless Alliance), I’ve mained every cl* in the game except OP. Per request this is my build and some shared philosophy, this is not a guide because a proper guide requires more effort/time than I’m willing to give. My build is not for everyone, my philosophy’s do not fit everyone but hopefully this will give some insight into what’s going on and why in the world of Putz.

***Insert Shameless Plug***
Join the DC Channel for theorycrafting, all dc parties, and to make new friends. Currently 287 DCs are registered with the DC_Channel. To access the channel go to Chat Channel Configuration, select Custom Channel tab. In the text box next to Join/Create enter “DC_Channel” and select join. It’s that easy, see you soon


Also note that Amber is not optimized. You may wonder why but chasing BIS gets boring after awhile. I’ll tell you what I think BIS would be and why where it is applicable. My end game is not to be BIS, my end game is Elysium (the name of the Myrmidons stronghold) and the guild.

Putz’s DC Philosophy


First and foremost put your personal enjoyment in front of everything else, except where it may sacrifice the enjoyment of others. PVE should not be competitive it should be cooperative and we should all share in each other’s achievements.

As mentioned, I have mained every cl* with the exception of the OP. After I realized that achieving BIS on multiple characters was too expensive I stopped trying to actively maintain multiple characters (BOE gear, companions, mounts, insignia’s, etc make the game a very alt unfriendly game). I chose the DC as my main because it is the most flexible cl* in the game, we can tank, heal, buff, debuff, and/or dps. I believe that’s how a proper cl* design should be. It should be able to excel in some areas or be moderate to good in many areas. DC truly allows its players to custom design a path and there isn’t a true Meta for the cl* (just flavors of the month).



The ideal DC build isn’t what works for you but what fits your party composition. For this it’s ideal to consider what kind of parties you typically run with and what their needs are. In lower ilvls parties healing and buffing is more important, in higher ilvls debuffing begins to become more important. If you’re more of a solo player, then dps will be more attractive. Understand what your particular strengths and weaknesses are and pursue content that aligns to it.

The understanding of this particular pve build


This is an end game build meant for high ilvl parties. I do not recommend it for low ilvl parties who are much better suited by a support character providing more survive-ability. Amber’s build is based around using high crit chance to proc Fire of the Gods (a DoT feat to be discussed later) which then triggers a feat called Bear your Sins (a debuff that proc’s on DoT’s) for a 10% debuff. This ensures a high uptime of both Bear your Sins, Condemning Gaze, High Prophet Armor, and weapon enchantment debuffs through the use of AOEs instead of DoT powers.

Also Amber is a PVE character and not optimized for PVP. You will find amber in PVP just to earn conq shard for the guild but pvp does not interest me, it’s not fun and most of the time it’s toxic.

AC vs DO


Amber is Divine Oracle

There is a lot of debate around Anointed Champion (AC) vs Divine Oracle (DO). My personal philosophy is the same it’s been since AC was introduced. AC for PVP and DO for PVE. The biggest areas of debate are around:

Foresight (DO) – Buffs Damage Resistance up to 8% (13% with Benefit of Foresight) buff
Brand of the Sun (DO) – My second largest damage dealer. Accounts for 18% of my damage (excluding companion damage). Brand of the Sun is also a DOT which is useful for procing Fire of the Gods/Bear Your Sins (to be discussed later).
Prophecy of Doom (DO) – Useful as a single target debuff and deals damage. Slow casting and doesn’t grant the excess AP it claims in the tooltip.
Anointed Army (AC) – A daily that buffs allies power until damage is received and absorbs a damage on that hit
Blessing of Battle (AC) – When combined with the feat Battle Fervor can increase party power up to 15% of your power and reduces incoming damage up to 8%.
Exaltation (AC) – Heals, buffs damage resistance, and increases damage

I personally favor Divine Oracle because my daily of choice is Hallowed Ground (i.e. I wouldn’t use Anointed Army anyhow) because of its increased range and duration. Also since I’m a crit build my power is rather limited (22k), I don’t feel that the 3.3k power (8.25%’ish dps gain depending on party members base power) is a worthwhile exchange compared to other things that would have to be sacrificed. AC may be better but I think it’s situational and the gap just isn’t that large. Either way this comes down to personal bias.

neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Anointed_Champion
neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Divine_Oracle

Races


Amber is a Dragonborn

You are the one that has to stare at this thing for hours->years. Emphasis should always be on what you like and with the higher ability scores and stats available since the lvl cap raise, racial differences matter less than they did pre mod 6. Note changing races is very expensive (1500 zen) so this is not a decision to be taken lightly. I’ll list the ones ideal for the class and some personal opinions.

Dragonborn – Dragonborn is the only cl* that will let you put racial points in both Strength (+2) and Wisdom (+2). Also Dragonborn gives you bonuses for Power and Crit making it well suited for Righteous DCs. The bad part is most people don’t enjoy the looks and they cannot wear a helmet. If you want some insight into the dragonborn race, check out this video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CArejI2nZLg

Half Elf – With +3 Con and +2 Wis and increased crit severity. Half Elves make the second best option for clerics.

Every other cl* forces you into an investment in what I consider to be useless ability scores or doesn’t offer points for our most important stat (wisdom) at all. I will review that more in the section below but for now just know that I put Dex/Int in that category.

Human – If you read old guides (specifically guides older than the divinity rework and the cleanse nerf) you will probably find recommendations for Human. Human does allow you to pick your ability scores for 2 points and instead of giving you 2 more ability score points it allows you 3 heroic feats. Unfortunately the 3 additional heroic feats have a very limited value at this time making Human a poor choice for max/min builds.

Drow – The drow has an interesting racial called darkfire which can fit nicely for max debuffs. Darkfire has a 5% chance to debuff targets 10% for 4 seconds (@michela123 testing says debuff is only 5%). Unfortunately 4 seconds is not a lot of uptime and you get forced into taking Dexterity which is useless.

neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Race
neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Racial_Trait
Post edited by putzboy78 on
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Comments

  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Ability Rolls


    Amber is 15 Str 16 Wis 13 Cha 11 Con 11 Int 9 Dex

    Amber’s scores reflect her age (pre mod 6). Con was useful for HP then. High strength was used to increase crit chance without suffering the diminish returns we balanced our stats against. Thanks to the stat increases in the game these choices are far less sensitive than they once were, so if you don’t roll the right thing, don’t lose any sleep over it.

    Here is some info on the different stats and how they contribute to your build:

    Wisdom – 1% Damage Bonus, 1% Bonus Healing, 1% Control Bonus, 1% Control Resist
    Strength – 1% Critical Chance, 1% Stamina Regen 1% DoT Damage Resist
    Charisma – 1% Recharge Speed Increase, 1% AP Gain, 1% Companion Stat Bonus, 1% Control Resist
    Constitution – 2% Maximum Hit Points
    Dexterity – 1% AoE Damage Resist, .5% Deflection Chance
    Intelligence – 1% Recharge Speed Increase

    To get a better understanding on how these scores fit into your end game build you will also need to review the information below. The important thing to understand is that many stats have hard caps, true diminishing returns, and theoretical diminishing returns. As you progress you will constantly find areas were stat realignment may be helpful for optimization. Or perhaps like me you just get lazy and let the stats be off.

    My recommendations for an initial roll (for a crit build like me): 16 Wis, 16 Str, 12 Cha, 10 Con, 10 Dex, 10 Int

    If your not sure on whether your going to be a healer, a debuffer, or a pvp cleric, I still recommend you go 18 Wis, 13 Str, 13 Cha, 10 Con, 8 Dex, 10 Int. While a full reroll is expensive, a partial reroll is not that expensive and will give you the flexibility to adjust points between strength and charisma (both ability scores can be directly enhanced via stats); in contrast the Wisdom bonuses to heals and dps cannot be directly applied via stats and are not subject to any hard caps or diminishing returns.

    neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ability_Score_Rolling

    Additional Ability Scores earned while leveling should be applied to Strength and Wisdom

    Heroic Feats


    You can view my build here:
    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,12l3315:1000000:1000000:1zu4zbv&h=0&p=dvo&o=0

    I’m not going to review every feat because you can see that with tooltips but I will outline some of the questions I have received or would expect.

    Some common questions would be:

    Why Holy Resolve? I wear High Prophet armor and therefore I have a small Hit Point pool to work with. Holy Resolve is a bit of a crutch to make sure I remain standing

    Why put a point in Cleanse? I’m not sure how the math works but cleanse seems to proc far more often than 10%. Because of the nerf to cleanse having an ICD I would not commit more than 1 point to it however.

    Why not initiate of Faith? This question comes up a lot. Especially since people know I am a crit build. The answer is simple, math. 1% of 20K power is 200 crit or .5% crit chance. That’s a lot of points for very little gain.

    Is this the best option for dps and debuffing? Probably not, if you feel like you don’t need Holy Resolve, dump it and take Healing Action for more AP gain.

    Paragon Feats


    You can view my build here:
    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,13l3305:1000000:1000000:1zu4zbv&h=0&p=dvo&o=0

    Fire of the Gods is a feat that provides a DoT on all critical strikes. The debuffing feat called Bear Your Sins (10%) is initiated by a DoT; therefore, one feat can trigger another. By stacking a high crit chance you can achieve a high uptime on both of these potent feats.

    Also Condemning Gaze (15% debuff) is initiated by attacking a target. Therefore using AOE attacks you can achieve more attacks and help keep Condemning Gaze up on as many targets as possible.

    I’m not going to review every feat because you can see that with tooltips but I will outline some of the questions I have received or would expect.

    Here is where personal preferences and styles can really diverge. Some of my choices are very dps oriented because

    a) I have to pvp for conq shards for my guild
    b) It makes solo’ing easier and the trade off feels appropriate

    You have real choices here, so please feel free to experiment and do your own thing.

    Reduce personal dps by removing: Astral Fury, Righteous Suffering, Living Fire, Piercing Light, and Decrease Fire of the Gods to 1 point

    Adding Power of the Sun (limited gain since Brand of the Sun is slow and hard to keep up on mobs but easy to keep up on single target boss fights)

    Increase Party Survive-ability:
    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,13l3305:1000000:1550000:1z40z57&h=0&p=dvo&o=0<</a>

    Adding Power of the Sun (limited gain since Brand of the Sun is slow and hard to keep up on mobs but easy to keep up on single target boss fights)

    Desperate Restoration (clutch increase in heals)

    Benefit of Foresight

    Lasting Wishes

    Buff Party AP:
    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,13l3305:1z04000:1000000:1z00z57&h=0&p=dvo&o=0

    Lasting Wishes

    Have Faith

    Gift of Haste

    Divinity Stacker AP:
    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,13l3305:1000000:1554000:1z00z57&h=0&p=dvo&o=0

    Desperate Restoration (clutch increase in heals)

    Benefit of Foresight

    Gift of the Gods (4 points)

    Power Stacking AC build:
    arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1216742/jareks-ac-righteous-pve-mod-9-guide-updated-on-6-7-2016/p1

    @jeffslider has already provided a build for this
    Post edited by putzboy78 on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Power Points Allocation


    nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2x9r:za4v9l:dm9t:a11bm,13l3305:1000000:1000000:1zu4zbv&h=0&p=dvo&o=0

    As previously mentioned DC is arguably the most flexible character in the game. Many of our powers are situational so having a lot of power points is useful. See my nwcalc link for an outline of where I would put my first 71 points.

    Here is my outline my priority for upgrading Power Points with a description of each;

    Hallowed Ground – This is our bread & butter for daily’s as it provides a 35% increase to dps and a 35% to damage resistance. It synergies well with the po*r GF ability called Into the Fray.

    Divine Glow – It’s busted and doesn’t proc weapons enchants but it remains a primary go to encounter power because it deals damage, debuffs, it heals, and it buff’s damage resistance

    Holy Fervor – 20% AP gain and synergies with our best dps artifact offhand ability

    Astral Shield – Increases damage resistance and synergies well with the po*r GF ability called Into the Fray

    Terrifying Insight – Increase personal dps up to 20%

    Break the Spirit – Nice single target debuff with the added advantage of cc in divine mode for pvp

    Prophecy of Doom – Nice single target debuff

    Daunting Light – This is your nuke when you are dpsing. It’s a small aoe but packs a lot of punch. Can be hard to target

    Brand of the Sun – 2nd highest contributor to the builds personal dps. Works as a DoT and provides Divinity over time. Does not stack

    Chains of Blazing Light – This is the my main aoe for spreading Bear your Sins and Condemning Gaze. Very useful because it is a non-targeted aoe. Really shines in new demon content as a trap placed under portal/mob spawns

    Hammer of Fate – Single target daily with cc (knockback) and reduce incoming damage and cc immunity while casting (the casting is LONG)

    Flame Strike – AOE damage and cc daily. Useful for clearing trash when you know the fight will last less than one rotation

    Lance of Faith – Quick cast for solid divinity gain and dps.

    Foresight – p*ive buff to party damage resistance

    Astral Seal – This is not a great heal but it heals without targeting. Can be valuable if you’re in a party with several ranged people who have not stacked enough lifesteal yet. Refrain from using in content with more than 5 people if you’ve selected the Burning Guidance Boon as it may cause lag (creates a lot of calculations on the server).

    Forgemaster’s Flame – targeted nuke (can’t miss like Daunting Light) and debuff (empowered). Also provides a little cc (slow). Primarly used if running with multiple DCs (PoD does not stack) or in PVP

    Divine Fortune – Increase your divinity gain by 20%

    Healer’s Lore – Buffs your healing for those fights where you need a little more to carry the team through (should have brought a real healer)

    Bastian of Health – Our most potent and biggest healing spell. However, it has a very long casting time unless used in divine mode

    SunbBurst – Sunburst for my purposes is primarily used for its knockback ability. It can be used to throw targets over ledges to their death or to move people off points in pvp. This is a very niche power and therefore very low on the priority list

    Prophetic Action – Once every 30 seconds a party member is shielded from an attack. Situational, used for slow hard attacks like orcus. Useless for mob spawns or when DoT effects are being used.

    neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Devoted_Cleric#Powers

    Understanding & building Divinity, Divine Mode and Empowered


    No reason to repeat this, you can read a description over at @jeffslider build: arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1216742/jareks-ac-righteous-pve-mod-9-guide-updated-on-6-7-2016/p1

    The one key to remember with my rotations is to always cast Brand of the Sun before going into divine castings so that divinity can start to build while you are casting. Use Lance of Faith after the rotation to get your divinity back up to full.

    Another trick is to start your divinity rotation before you have full divinity and let Brand of the Sun fill you up as you cast. This takes good timing and careful monitoring of your divinity bar.

    Rotations


    This is an overview of my rotations; I cannot overstate how important it is to experiment and get your own feel for the game. The DC is truly not a one size fits all cl* and it really isn’t button mashing. Some people love it for its flexibility and complexity and others have thrown their hands up into the air and said “I just want to kill *”. Also note that Divine Chains of Blazing Light provides AP for more daily up time.

    Solo Play

    Cl* Features - Holy Fervor, Terrifying Insight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground, Flame Strike
    Encounters – Chains of Blazing Light, Daunting Light, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Chains of Blazing Light (damage, CC and to get p*ive debuffs started), Divine Glow (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 3xDivine Daunting Light (damage and builds empowerment), and fully empowered Daunting Light. Anything left standing can be used to rebuild divinity.

    Party Play/Trash Clearing (No Tact GF)

    Cl* Features - Holy Fervor, Terrifying Insight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground, Flame Strike
    Encounters – Chains of Blazing Light, Daunting Light, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Chains of Blazing Light (damage, CC and to get p*ive debuffs started), Divine Glow (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 3x Divine Chains of Blazing light (damage , builds empowerment, and builds AP), and fully empowered Daunting Light.

    Use Hallowed Ground if you anti*te the fight will last more than rotation, otherwise use Flame Strike

    Party Play/Trash Clearing (with Tact GF)

    Cl* Features - Holy Fervor, Terrifying Insight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground, Flame Strike
    Encounters – Astral Shield, Chains of Blazing Light, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Astral Shield, Chains of Blazing Light (damage, CC and to get p*ive debuffs started), Divine Glow (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 3x Divine Chains of Blazing light (damage , builds empowerment, and builds AP), and fully empowered Chains of Blazing light

    Use Hallowed Ground if you anti*te the fight will last more than rotation, otherwise use Flame Strike

    If your GF has problems staying up you can use empowered Astral Shield and/or foresight

    Party Play/Boss Fight (No Tact GF)

    Cl* Features - Holy Fervor, Terrifying Insight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground, Hammer of Fate
    Encounters – Breaking the Spirit, Prophecy of Doom, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Hallowed Ground (buff/debuff), Divine Glow(debuff and damage), Prophecy of Doom (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 3xDivine Divine Glow (buff, damage, heal, and builds empowerment), and fully Empowered Breaking the Spirit (buff damage)

    Party Play/Boss Fight (with Tact GF)

    Cl* Features - Holy Fervor, Terrifying Insight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground, Hammer of Fate
    Encounters – Astral Shield, Breaking the Spirit, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Hallowed Ground (buff/debuff), Astral Shield (buff), Divine Glow (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 3xDivine Divine Glow (buff, damage, heal, and builds empowerment), Empowered Breaking the Spirit (buff damage)

    If your GF has problems staying up you can use empowered Astral Shield and/or Foresight

    Dear God We Forgot a Healer

    Cl* Features – Healer’s Lore, Foresight
    At Wills - Brand of the Sun, Astral Seal
    Dailys – Hallowed Ground
    Encounters – Astral Shield, Bastion of Health, Divine Glow

    Rotation – Hallowed Ground (buff/debuff), Divine Glow (debuff and damage), Brand of the Sun, 2xBastion of Health (heal), 1xDivine Divine Glow (buff, damage, and builds empowerment), Empowered Astral Shield (buff damage resistance and damage mitigation)
    Post edited by putzboy78 on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    What is a Buff/Debuff Cleric?


    So when people say they want a buff/debuff cleric what are they looking for?

    They are looking for a cleric who focuses on debuffing target damage resistance and buffing allies damage. Heals, buffing team damage resistance (with the exception of tact GF synergy), debuffing targets outgoing damage, and personal dps are considered secondary importance. Usually these parties are not looking for any heals at all unless they specify buff/heals. These parties are looking to kill and kill fast.

    I personally experience 198% damage efficiency while solo (ACT monitored on dummies). That means my damage is effectively doubled by debuffs and buffs. Obviously peak debuffs can be much higher but do not have long uptimes and require time to get built. Here is an example:

    Party Play/Boss Fight (No Tact GF) Rotation
    Power Buff DR Debuff Defense Debuff Total Increase
    Hallowed Ground 40% 40%
    Divine Glow + High Prophet +TDread + Bear Your SIns 17.5%+8%+10% 10%*.6 97%
    Prophecy of Doom + High Prophet 12.5% 10%*.6 124%
    Brand of the Sun + High Prophet 10%*.6 132%
    Divine Divine Glow 12.5% 161%
    Divine Divine Glow + Condeming Gaze 15% 188%
    Divine Divine Glow 0% 0% 0% 188%
    Empowered Breaking the Spirit 30% 274%




    Note with DC/GF synergy you can effectively add 62.5% more damage (75% - the debuff from PoD).

    Also notice these are peak percentages and do not include Weapons of Light which is variable.

    You can learn more about DC/GF synergy here:
    [url=]http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212242/dc-gf-itf-synergy[/url]

    Gear


    Armor Set


    PVE: Amber wears High Prophet for all of PVE except WoD and IWD where more Hit Points are useful (especially for soloing heroics and/or big pulls). When I need more Hit Points I wear dragonflight (Restoration Head/Arms/Chest are restoration and Raid Feet). Adamant Gear would be BIS outside of the rare and expensive High Prophet set but is not worth the investment over dragonflight

    PVP: Amber wears the Lionsmane Duelist set. Adamant is better but not worth the investment.

    Why High Prophet, isn’t it old? High Prophet is a lvl 60 T1 set that no longer drops in the game. Buying the set through the AH now costs 8-10M AD. To understand why High Prophet you must also understand that the dev’s raised the lvl cap from 60-70 and m*ively increased the Hit Points of newer gear and the damage abilities of lvl 70 mobs in an effort to remove old gear from common use. The problem was simple, they old gear featured powerful set bonuses that were so great they couldn’t provide a better alternative for players to work toward. Many people held onto the gear and over time with the power creep in the game, some sets have become useable again.

    High Prophet provides up to a 30% debuff. However, while wearing it you have lower damage resistance and health points making effective protection a must.

    Shirt and Pants


    Amber wears the Zealot’s Gemmed Exquisite Elemental Chainmail and the Prelate’s Gemmed Exquisite Elemental Chausses, this is what I would currently consider BIS.

    Weapon and Offhand


    Amber has the twisted set which boosts power and defense. Not because its BIS, but because I couldn’t stomach grinding motes for the burning set.

    Here are my thoughts on this:

    BIS for PVE Support – Burning Set which provides a 25% AP gain with each daily use

    BIS for PVP – Drowned set for additional survive-ability

    2nd Best in both categories is twisted since it buffs power when you’re on the offensive and buffs defense when you’re under attack. This set is also the easiest to earn (Burning and Drowned can be purchased on AH for those with the budget).

    Belt


    Amber has Golden Belt of Pussiance

    I do not believe it is BIS anymore. See my notes about the Artifact Sets below but I personally believe the Imperial Waistband of Honor is BIS although I haven’t tested it.

    Other Options:

    Greater Belt of Wisdom – Has Defense as a key stat which is useful but I try to focus on all offensive stats at end game

    Demogorgoron’s Girdle of Might – Con is not as helpful as Strength or wisdom and deflection isn’t that valuable in pve

    Neck


    Amber has Lostmauth’s Hoard Necklace

    I do not believe it is BIS anymore. See my notes about the Artifact Sets below but I personally believe the Imperial Dragon Cloak is BIS although I haven’t tested it.

    Rings


    Amber has Ring of Rising Precision +4 and Ring of Rising Power +4.

    I believe BIS would be Ring of Rising Precision +5 and Ring of Sudden Precision +5. Rising Rings fully proc quickly for Right DC’s thanks to the number of DOTs we use.

    Artifact Sets


    Amber has the Lostmouth (LOL) set because it was BIS until the damage bonus was fixed (it could no longer crit).

    So why aren’t you recommending and artifact set? The short answer is that no sets provide a dps buff/debuff functionilty for the party and none of the sets increase dps enough to be worth the investment. For artifact sets on this build, you really have 3 options:

    LoL Set – provides about a 2% damage increase but if compared to my recommendations above you gain 2,060 Recovery and 1000 Critical Strike and +2 Wisdom (2% increase to damage and heals) but you lose 1,000 Power (2.5 damage increase), 2,060 armor pen (already overstacked on armor pen for PVE anyhow), 600 control bonus (this is not a control build), and +2 Dex (useless stat). The trade off for additional crit and recovery is certainly worth the 2.5% loss in dps from power.

    Imperial Set – I’ve had the imperial set and haven’t retested it recently but it simply does not proc that often and when it does the 25% of weapon damage is not significant enough to offset the loss in critical strike.

    Orcus – Based on @thefabricant testing you may see up to a 6% increase in dps from the set bonus. But you will have to loose Wisdom to Con (2% dps and healing loss) and take on 1060 Deflection, 1000 Movement, and 600 AOE Resist (useless stats) while giving up 2060 recovery, The overall dps may be a bit higher but does not justify the price point for acquiring the demo set unless you just have AD to burn.

    Reinforcement Kits


    Amber has +100 Power Reinforcement, upgrades is an expense I haven’t justified yet

    BIS would be +200 Crit Reinforcements.

    Jewels


    Amber has AP Gain Jewels on Neck/Waist, none on rings, and regen on companion gear.

    BIS would be AP gain on your character and regen on your companion. Note that AP and Stamina jewels on your companion do not transfer to you through augmentation or bonding. Stamina can be useful for more survive-ability/dodging.

    Weapon Enchantment


    Amber has Dread Enchantment and likes critical severity bonuses because it impacts both heals and dps.

    I tested the dread enchantment and posted results at: [url=http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1214061/dread-weapon-enchant-for-a-dc]http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1214061/dread-weapon-enchant-for-a-dc[/url]

    Some alternatives:
    Vorpal – Only notices about a 2% decrease in overall dps vs dread.

    Plaguefire – Will give you roughly 4% more debuff but does not provide the excess crit severity of the dread and can be challenging to keep stacked. Also doesn't stack with other people who use it so if you run with a plague user the debuff is wasted. One note is that CW is probably a lot more efficient at using plague because of faster attack speeds and range of their AOEs.


    Armor Enchantment


    Amber has Soulforged Enchantment for PVE, Negation for PVP

    I have used trans negation in PVE and loved it, if I could afford it I would have one. For PVP Elven Battle would be BIS since CC is our greatest vulnerability in PVP
    Post edited by putzboy78 on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 2017
    Artifacts


    Amber has Sigil of the Devoted, Lostmauth’s Horn of Blasting, Lantern of Revelation, Sigil of the Controller. Sigil of the Devoted is primary for the extra daily (hallowed ground) with enough AP gain I would switch the Sigil of the Devoted for the Lantern of Revelation for debuff purposes

    I would consider BIS to be

    Lantern of Revelation – Critical Strike, Armor Penetration, Combat Advantage Bonus
    Heart of the Blue Dragon - Recovery, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage
    Sigil of the Controller - Critical Strike, Power, Control Resist
    Horn of Valhalla – Maximum Hit Points, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage Bonus

    Finding the right balance can be tricky but this has a lot of stats you will find valuable. There are many other options and combinations so consider my section on enchantments and stat priorities below, your budget and decide accordingly.

    Enchantments


    Amber currently has all Azure in offense (but is over stacked on Critical Strike and needs to be fixed) and Savage Enchantments on Defense (Hit Points & Life Steal).

    There are numerous articles about what enchantments are available and what they do. The big thing is balancing your stats based on diminishing returns, hard caps, and what works best for you. For this I would recommend checking out the following references:

    Sharpedge’s Neverwinter Stat Theory: https://docs.google.com/do*ent/d/1Z9nFMreFqUI7jrXcD6NL2IR4yFVqbKBJoKGHmbEZNCo/pub
    Sharpedge’s Stat Theory Spreadsheet (for maths): https://goo.gl/AKGczE&sa=D&ust=1466623785894000&usg=AFQjCNF34TBrStn-9GP8cVhv6Y9W-TG3fw

    A valuable tool for this is the Character Manager which allows you to “pen and paper” you build and includes a ROI (Return on Investment) tool to show which stats will gain the most performance gain from stacking.

    *** Search Neverwinter Character Manager in google

    Utility Slot: Dragon Hoard enchantments remain a solid option for anyone who needs RP and Quartermaster’s have the added benefit of dropping up to rank 7 enchantments (bound), professions resources, and campaign currencies. However both suffer a similar challenge of having daily caps so experimenting with them to get balance and optimal rewards is necessary. In PVP Dark Enchantments for movement is BIS.

    Overload Slot: There are no overload slots in High Prophet. I still consider this a waste of AD for PVE if you have overload slots. I wouldn’t bother. In PVP I use a Greater Red Dragon for added armor pen and a Greater Black Dragon for added crit (note that stats from companions are lost in PVP so my critical chance drops below 100%).

    Amber’s Stat Priorities


    Armor Pen – While in support mode, your personal DPS is not essential; however, I would recommend you stack armor penetration so you have at least 40% damage resistance ignored for easy solo play. Stacking 60% is optimal if you want to help dps on dungeon bosses.

    Critical Strike – Amber is built around using Critical Strike to generate Fire of the Gods and therefore keep Bear your Sins stacked via Chains of Blazing Light. Fire of the Gods lasts for 15 seconds so basically the question is if you want to start your debuffs stack on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd hit. The goal for me is the first hit (100% Critical Strike Chance) but I would recommend at least 50%. Note that a hard cap theoretically exists at 100% so you will want to stack as high as possible without going over. Also if you run with a renegade CW, they can buff crit chance by 5%, so 95% crit chance would be your goal.

    Recovery – Recovery for any cl* is a flavor to taste stat. Play the game. Do you have situations where you are stuck waiting for encounter to become available? If the answer is yes then add more recovery. Thanks to the divinity mechanic, recovery is relatively less necessary for Right DCs than most cl*es. For Amber I do not add any recovery on purpose.
    Also note that while recovery does not technically have diminishing return. It theoretically does. The logic is 200 Recovery is a 1% reduction in encounter cooldown time. 1% of 10s is .1s in contrast 1% of 5s is .05s. The cost is the same but the benefit received becomes much less noticeable the more recovery you have stacked.

    Power – Power stacking is very po*r in the game, especially given the po*rity of the AC/DC power buffing build. However, power is a very low return stat and should be considered as the place you dump offensive stats after you have everything else. Many people will tell you that 400 Power is a 1% dps gain; however, that’s not true. 400 Power is a 1% dps gain at very low power lvls; however, the more power you have the less % of gain you receive from stacking it (same amount of damage gained just becomes a smaller portion of overall dps). I won’t bore you here but check Sharps Stat Guide mentioned above to learn more. Also note that Power does directly impact heal potency.

    Action Point Gain – AP Gain directly impacts your up time with Hallowed Ground which is a 35% damage buff. Add it where you can.

    Life Steal – Righteous DCs leverage attacking to stack debuffs. Also DC feat Righteousness means that you are 70% more effective at healing others than yourself. So basically you can’t count on your own healing spells to keep you standing. Your first defensive priority will be to get your lifesteal to at least 10% (going as high as 20% won’t hurt). After 10%, flavor to taste.

    Hit Points/Defense/Deflection – There is ROI analysis available between Hit Points, Deflection, and Defense. You can view the details at Sharp’s Stat Guide but know that Hit Points is where you will need the most help. Deflection performs very poorly in PVE and DCs have relatively high Damage Resistance. You will need to stack around 130K+ hit points before defense begins out performing Hit Points.

    Boons


    Thanks to @two31 for building a boon tool I will simply provide a link for the boons. My boon priority is simple, a tanks job is to keep agro off of me which makes stacking defensive boons unnecessary for group play (the play I’m focused on). The one boon in here you may find questionable with that philosophy is that I do not stack Baphomet’s Might since I already have 100% Critical Chance, in its place I select the Displace Fate boon for some clutch protection because it’s the best option remaining.

    https://two30.github.io/neverwinter-boon/?211111201110022223212222222222222211133321211123

    Stronghold boons should be adjusted based on your needs. In general I use Power/Hit Points/ XP bonus in PVE and Armor Penetration/Hit Points/Mount Speed bonus in PVP.

    If your armor penetration is lower than 60% but higher than 40% in PVE, you can alternate the power boon for clearing trash and use armor pen boon for boss fights to optimize your dps.
    Post edited by putzboy78 on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Summoned Companion


    Amber uses the Shadow Demon

    For companions, as with everything else, I say do what you want. See a companion with a unique skill or look and you like it, then don’t be afraid to roll with it. That said here is my philosophy for companions.

    Your role as a cl* does not impact the companion you should be expected to use. Many people will argue that a DC should have a buff/debuffing companion and I don’t subscribe to that. Any cl* use any companion. In fact I could argue that the debuffing companions (who are prone to dieing) are better suited for tanks who can keep the agro off. Regardless, don’t let the cl* role influence your companion choice. You do you

    Secondly, thanks to the bonding rework. Attack speed is not the critical factor it once was.

    So what do I consider to be ideal companions:

    For DPS:

    Shadow Demon – This companion hits hard. I’ve logged hits over 500K coming from the Shadow Demon and it accounts for 40% of my overall DPS. He makes dailys easy and noone wants to see them in open world pvp (good deterrent). His bonuses aren’t great but the Shadow Demon isn’t about adding to our character, he’s going to hold his own. He really benefits from his personal buff/debuff friend.

    For Tank:

    Yeti – This little guy can hold agro and take a beating. He’s available in game and he’s a solid pick for anyone who wants to be able to role without a tank in party. Also useful for dailys for keeping the agro off if you have low HP. The active bonus of a 10% to become Blood Thirsty isn’t bad either, 10% damage increase.

    For Debuff:

    Ambush Drake/Sellsword- I haven’t tested or used either but I hear good things as these companions have the ability to give a 10% debuff on target but are prone to death before debuff is stacked. The frequency of dieing is why I suspect this is a better companion for a tank who can take the agro off the companions to keep them alive.

    Don’t have the budget for bonding stones? Consider an Augment. The goat is the cheapest option and the Black Dragon Ioun Stone is probably the best option for an augment. Augments don’t need expensive bonding stones and therefore can use cheaper runestones instead.


    Bonded Companion Equipment


    Amber uses the Girdle of the Striker, Necklace of the Loyal Avenger, and Sword Knot of the Loyal Avenger

    Loyal Avenger gear is BIS for bonded companions, although you will certainly over stack armor pen with this gear. Another good option is the adorable series but they are expensive and do not provide as much overall stats. With adorable bites you can stack more critical strike thanks to two offensive enchant slots.

    Active Companion


    Amber uses the Erinyes of Belial, Cambion Magus, Dancing Blade, & Galeb Dhur

    I would avoid companions that provide stats as their active bonus. At end game you won’t need the stats, so you out grow them. Focus on good abilities buffs instead. I use a lot of crit severity because it can impact heal potency and dps, you can also focus on stronger dps companions or on more survive-ability. Active Companions are for tweaking you build but they are very expensive and bind on equip so should be a low priority. Values are for epic tier companions because you should get companions with goals of maxing them out eventually (focus on the end result not the in between).

    Erinyes of Belial - 10% Critical Severity
    Dancing Blade - 5% Critical Severity
    Cambion Magus – 10% Critical Severity
    Galeb Duhr - Deal up to 10% more damage based on the percentage of damage you have taken. I like it because I live on lifesteal so clutch dps is clutch self healing.
    Young Yeti - On Damage taken - 10% chance, for you to become blood thirsty, increasing damage dealt by 10%. I like it because I live on lifesteal so clutch dps is clutch self healing.
    Siege master - +4% damage
    Air Archon - +5% damage when your target is not at full health
    Fire Archon - +7% damage bonus when your opponent is below 50% HP
    Wild hunt Rider - on encounter use there is a 5% chance to boost your damage by 10%. For 5 seconds. We use a lot of encounters thanks to the divinity mechanic

    Mounts Insignia Bonus


    The new mount system is confusing and is still be flushed out by the community but it does create opportunities to create unique bonuses and add additional stats. The best tool for learning about the mount system is another great tool from our friend @two31 and can be found at https://two30.github.io/neverwinter-insignia/?0 where you can get information on what bonuses are available and which mounts provide those bonuses. Here are my recommendations for mount bonuses but this is something you really should research for yourself.

    Wanderer's Fortune - You have a 4% chance after killing a foe to find a Refining Stone at your feet. This does not appear at your feet, rather it goes directly to your inventory. The refinement stones are bound but this is a great way to farm RP while playing.

    Warlord’s Inspiration – Your summoned Companion does 20% more damage. As mentioned I use the Shadow Demon because he deals major DPS. Since he’s 40% of my dps, this accounts for 8% of my dps. Not to bad :)

    Protector's Camaraderie - Whenever your summoned Companion attacks, you gain 3% of your Power and Defense for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 4 times.

    Protector's Friendship - Whenever your summoned Companion attacks, you gain 1% of your Power and Defense for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 4 times. Note that per thread below Protector's Friendship + Protector's Camaraderie out performs 2x Protector's Camaraderie.

    Gladiator's Guile - When your Stamina is above 75%, you move 15% faster. When your Stamina is below 25%, gain 15% of your Power as Stamina Gain.

    Mounts Active Bonus


    Amber uses the Heavy Howler for 2K crit

    My opinion for the best option is the 25% ap gain on daily power use from the Flail Snail. Second best option is our good friend Crit. Having an armor pen mount in the stable isn’t a bad option for pvp either.

    Finished!


    I’m sure I missed something. If you have questions please update the forum, ask in the dc_channel, or contact me in game at @putzboy78.

    A few shout outs to those who have helped along the way.

    @theosymphany aka Kaelac - for all the information he provided pre-mod 6. Kaelac was the foundation of everything DC, buff/debuff, and damage calculating. We miss you bro

    @thefabricant - His CW guide and stat guides have been very helpful for my research.

    @jazzfong – Always a positive contributor to the dc community. He’s eager to share information and that’s admirable

    @jeffslider – I stole his formatting from his AC/DC guide :)

    My friends over at the site that shall not be named. You know who you are and thanks for all your hard work and sharing your neverwinter tools with the community

    All my friends in Myrmidons and Ice Bank Mice Elf, cause you’re the reason I login every day ;)
    Post edited by putzboy78 on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    hold for more
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    hold for more
  • michela123michela123 Posts: 257Member Arc User
    Calculations in the "What is a Buff/Debuff Cleric?" section have some mistakes. These are your calculations:

    Hallowed Ground 35%
    Divine Glow + High Prophet +TDread + Bear Your SIns 17.5% + 10% + 4% + 10% = 41.5%
    Prophecy of Doom + High Prophet 12.5% + 10% = 22.5%
    Brand of the Sun + High Prophet 10%
    Divine Divine Glow 5%
    Divine Divine Glow + Condeming Gaze 15%
    Divine Divine Glow 0%
    Empowered Breaking the Spirit 30%
    Total: 159%


    But actually:

    Hallowed Ground is 40%, HP set is mitigated by enemy DR, TDread if crit is 8%, Divine DG is 12,5%.
    And at a first glance I'd say that HP set, Divine DG, HG and empBtS are multiplicative with all the stuff that you listed here, not additive.

  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


  • michela123michela123 Posts: 257Member Arc User
    Sorry, Divine Glow was a typo, I meant divine Divine Glow. It's 5% at first rank +2,5% per rank, so 12,5%.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,236Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther Debuffs is less than Answer.

    So, if you look at that listed rotation, it breaks down as follows:

    Buffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Sorry, Divine Glow was a typo, I meant divine Divine Glow. It's 5% at first rank +2,5% per rank, so 12,5%.

    Thanks, now I get what your throwing down :), updated
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    interesting, well thought out, and way more complex :pensive:

    Can you explain the mitigated by DR though. Does your RI not counteract it? My RI is 93% in HP, which would be plenty for any content.
  • lerapiso818lerapiso818 Posts: 92Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    I think dread debuff is in the same category than HP. Right ?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,236Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016
    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    interesting, well thought out, and way more complex :pensive:

    Can you explain the mitigated by DR though. Does your RI not counteract it? My RI is 93% in HP, which would be plenty for any content.
    No, stacking RI will not penetrate the mitigation, you just have to live with the fact that the debuff is less effective against resilient monsters. There are 2 different layers of mitigation though and for the first one RI does matter. The equation is more like Debuff effectiveness*(1-DR+RI)*(1-DR). Some debuffs have 1 layer, some have both, some have neither. The high prophet set has both. You should thank @michela123 for research into this though, it is for the most part, entirely her work. I just volunteered to help with some of the testing (a very small part).

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    I think dread debuff is in the same category than HP. Right ?
    No, it adds with DR debuffs, but does not multiply as expected with defense debuffs and neither does it add with them. I am not sure what it does. The HP set is a defense debuff and dread is definitely not one.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2016

    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    interesting, well thought out, and way more complex :pensive:

    Can you explain the mitigated by DR though. Does your RI not counteract it? My RI is 93% in HP, which would be plenty for any content.
    No, stacking RI will not penetrate the mitigation, you just have to live with the fact that the debuff is less effective against resilient monsters. There are 2 different layers of mitigation though and for the first one RI does matter. The equation is more like Debuff effectiveness*(1-DR+RI)*(1-DR). Some debuffs have 1 layer, some have both, some have neither. The high prophet set has both. You should thank @michela123 for research into this though, it is for the most part, entirely her work. I just volunteered to help with some of the testing (a very small part).

    Interesting, so really the impact of HP is more about it being multiplicative than the size of the debuff itself.

    Thanks @michela123 for your research, I'm confident I would never go to the depths you are. I enjoy farming influence to much :p

  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,236Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    interesting, well thought out, and way more complex :pensive:

    Can you explain the mitigated by DR though. Does your RI not counteract it? My RI is 93% in HP, which would be plenty for any content.
    No, stacking RI will not penetrate the mitigation, you just have to live with the fact that the debuff is less effective against resilient monsters. There are 2 different layers of mitigation though and for the first one RI does matter. The equation is more like Debuff effectiveness*(1-DR+RI)*(1-DR). Some debuffs have 1 layer, some have both, some have neither. The high prophet set has both. You should thank @michela123 for research into this though, it is for the most part, entirely her work. I just volunteered to help with some of the testing (a very small part).

    Interesting, so really the impact of HP is more about it being multiplicative than the size of the debuff itself.

    Thanks @michela123 for your research, I'm confident I would never go to the depths you are. I enjoy farming influence to much :p

    Oh, it does add with other debuffs in its category, it just so happens that in the above situation, no debuffs in that category are listed other than HP set. If you had said you were in a party with a CW for example and the CW was using HV, the 2 sets would have added and been (1+0.3+0.12). The HV set is 1 of the 2 exceptions to the rule where it isn't double mitigated. The other exception is terror, which is double mitigated even though its in category 1.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Okay, I think I got it now. Tables in forums are a big PITA btw, probably should have just done a picture. I hope it illustrates my point about the peak dps buff/debuff stacking. Thanks for the input. I hope we have a thorough guide soon about how these buffs/debuffs calculate now. This is so much more confusing than what's in the Kaelac guides and no wonder the game has so much lag when its calculating all these interactions between 40 people.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    putzboy78 said:

    good catch on the Hallowed Ground and updated accordingly

    good catch on the dread and updated accordingly

    Divine Glow should be 17.5% unless there is something wrong with the tooltip, 10%+2.5%+2.5%+2.5%

    As for the debuffs being multiplicative instead of additive, I'd have to test it to see... so when I get some free time I will take a look


    The calculation for the entire rotation should be:

    ΠBuffs*ΣDefense Debuffs*ΣDR Debuffs*ΠOther DebuffsBuffs:
    Hallowed Ground: 40%
    Divine Divine Glow: 12.5%
    Empowered Break the Spirit: 30%

    DR Debuffs:
    Divine Glow: 17.5%
    Prophecy of Doom: 12.5%
    Condemning Gaze: 15% per stack, stacks dependent on number of targets hit. For calculations, ill assume 1 stack.
    Bear Your Sins: 10%
    T.Dread: 8%


    Defense Debuffs:
    High Prophet: 10% per stack, mitigated by DR though. I will assume T2 boss DR, so 60%.

    Other Debuffs:
    None.

    So it all calculates towards:

    1.4*1.125*1.3*(1+0.175+0.125+0.15+0.1+0.08)*(1+0.12) = 3.737916 times your normal damage. As dread interacts weirdly with defense debuffs, the result is actually slightly higher than that.
    interesting, well thought out, and way more complex :pensive:

    Can you explain the mitigated by DR though. Does your RI not counteract it? My RI is 93% in HP, which would be plenty for any content.
    No, stacking RI will not penetrate the mitigation, you just have to live with the fact that the debuff is less effective against resilient monsters. There are 2 different layers of mitigation though and for the first one RI does matter. The equation is more like Debuff effectiveness*(1-DR+RI)*(1-DR). Some debuffs have 1 layer, some have both, some have neither. The high prophet set has both. You should thank @michela123 for research into this though, it is for the most part, entirely her work. I just volunteered to help with some of the testing (a very small part).

    Interesting, so really the impact of HP is more about it being multiplicative than the size of the debuff itself.

    Thanks @michela123 for your research, I'm confident I would never go to the depths you are. I enjoy farming influence to much :p

    Oh, it does add with other debuffs in its category, it just so happens that in the above situation, no debuffs in that category are listed other than HP set. If you had said you were in a party with a CW for example and the CW was using HV, the 2 sets would have added and been (1+0.3+0.12). The HV set is 1 of the 2 exceptions to the rule where it isn't double mitigated. The other exception is terror, which is double mitigated even though its in category 1.
    Yeah this certainly makes the synergies between skills much more confusing, for instance we didn't list a single "Other Debuffs'. If it's also multiplicative anything at all in that category would have a huge impact.

    And the DC logic is fairly straight forward, when you start accounting for CA from skills for example. It really does become a hot mess.

    Thanks again for your and @michela123's research
  • michela123michela123 Posts: 257Member Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Thanks, I'm glad that my tests are appreciated. Anyway, your build and rotation are good, you don’t need math to play DC efficently.
    In the companions section you mention the Rage Drake, I think you’re talking about Ambush Drake, that has a 20% debuff and it’s barely impossible to find now. Also notice that Drow’s Darkfire debuff is only 5%, despite what the tooltip says.

    I don’t want to go off-topic, but I’d like to explain the Condemning Gaze bug because Sharpedge mentioned it in his formula and who isn't aware of this bug can’t understand what he meant.
    As you all know, if you hit more than one mob with an AoE skill they gain more stacks of Condemned (for example if you hit two mobs together they immediately gain two stacks of Condemned) and when they reach 5 stacks, the debuff is activated. But there is a bug that occurs when the number of mobs you hit is higher than the remaining stacks required to activate the debuff (examples: mobs have 4 stacks and you hit 2 mobs; mobs have 3 stacks and you hit 5 mobs). When this happens, they generate extra-stacks that are scattered among the pack of mobs.
    Here’s an example of what happens when the mobs have 3 stacks of Condemned and I hit 5 mobs with Chains (in the end I also hit them with Sunburst to highlight the debuff):

    https://s8.postimg.org/eeqy1066t/condemning_gaze.png

    You can see Break the Spirit in the report, but it was used in normal mode and anyway empowered Break the Spirit doesn’t raise effectiveness.


    Regardind the "Others debuffs" category, atm I’m aware of three debuffs that seem to multiply with everything (tests done on dummies): two of them affect only the caster, the other one is Dreadtheft (it’s a 25% debuff that affects your allies and it has only a “one layer” mitigation that can be overcome by Resistance Ignored). Anyway, since we've already listed more than 70 debuffs and they're reworking some classes it's not easy to check with accuracy.

    PS: “Defense debuff” and “DR debuff” are temporary names for those categories, we could decide to change them.
  • damoc#3687 damoc Posts: 111Member Arc User
    the maths part of the game seems pretty convoluted. No wonder the game is ripe with bugs. It must be a nightmare to maintain
  • jazzfongjazzfong Posts: 1,061Member Arc User
    TY michela for clarification on the 2 layers of DR. Im not so sure whether condemning gaze works as you said, but it definitely not working based on its tooltip. For me, it is like the counters of used encounter is on me but not on the mobs. If i spammed 4 encounters, wiped the mobs, walked to the next wave which is spawned later, i can still trigger condemning gaze on the next encounter use. Thus i think the counter for CG is on us, not extra triggered on the mobs like what you said. There is a possibility too where CG affects mob that not yet spawned out so it fits what you get from the log.

    So many hidden mechanics behind.... Double layer DR... Additive/Multiplicative calculations... Looping... Still many to learn for me...
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    In the companions section you mention the Rage Drake, I think you’re talking about Ambush Drake, that has a 20% debuff and it’s barely impossible to find now. Also notice that Drow’s Darkfire debuff is only 5%, despite what the tooltip says.

    Thanks updated

  • jeffsliderjeffslider Posts: 112Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Just commenting before I disappear for a few weeks. I'm glad that you made this guide. Now people have a clear path to read up on DO righteous & AC righteous & excellent equations as well. Hats off to you man.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,236Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Added this guide to my List of Useful Links.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Just commenting before I disappear for a few weeks. I'm glad that you made this guide. Now people have a clear path to read up on DO righteous & AC righteous & excellent equations as well. Hats off to you man.

    Thanks for the kind words

    Added this guide to my List of Useful Links.

    Woot woot, I made the wall of fame :smiley:
  • bvirabvira Posts: 385Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Thanks for sharing, I too go for full azure but my intention is not really for proccing FotG but for boosting personal DPS :P

    I've noticed a minor mistake:
    Divine Fortune – Increase your divinity gain by 35% <---- Isn't it 20%?

    And for me I would replace Magistrate's Patience with Protector's Friendship (4% more power and defense) since it accounts for less than 1% of the overall dmg for many people. Whereas 4% of 22k power = 880 ~ 2% dmg/heal bonus.

    Also I think dancing blade is inferior to siege master/air archon/fire archon in terms of dmg because even if your crit chance is 100%, it's just a 2% dmg increase (assuming 150% crit severity). Would be even lower with higher base crit severity and lower crit chance.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    bvira said:


    I've noticed a minor mistake:
    Divine Fortune – Increase your divinity gain by 35%

    Fixed
    bvira said:


    And for me I would replace Magistrate's Patience with Protector's Friendship (4% more power and defense) since it accounts for less than 1% of the overall dmg for many people. Whereas 4% of 22k power = 880 ~ 2% dmg/heal bonus.

    Good point. I don't have the mounts to test it but does it stack with Protectors Camaraderie? I know @thefabricant says Protector's Camaraderie doesn't stack.
    bvira said:


    Also I think dancing blade is inferior to siege master/air archon/fire archon in terms of dmg because even if your crit chance is 100%, it's just a 2% dmg increase (assuming 150% crit severity). Would be even lower with higher base crit severity and lower crit chance.

    I stack the extra crit because it impacts heals and dps. My intention is not to be strictly a dps cleric. I have 183.5 crit severity
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,236Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    bvira said:


    I've noticed a minor mistake:
    Divine Fortune – Increase your divinity gain by 35%

    Fixed
    bvira said:


    And for me I would replace Magistrate's Patience with Protector's Friendship (4% more power and defense) since it accounts for less than 1% of the overall dmg for many people. Whereas 4% of 22k power = 880 ~ 2% dmg/heal bonus.

    Good point. I don't have the mounts to test it but does it stack with Protectors Camaraderie? I know @thefabricant says Protector's Camaraderie doesn't stack.
    bvira said:


    Also I think dancing blade is inferior to siege master/air archon/fire archon in terms of dmg because even if your crit chance is 100%, it's just a 2% dmg increase (assuming 150% crit severity). Would be even lower with higher base crit severity and lower crit chance.

    I stack the extra crit because it impacts heals and dps. My intention is not to be strictly a dps cleric. I have 183.5 crit severity
    It does stack now putz, forgot to update that particular article, it got fixed I think 1 or 2 patches ago (can't remember exactly.) Either way, I have updated my article accordingly.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Posts: 1,728Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    putzboy78 said:

    bvira said:


    I've noticed a minor mistake:
    Divine Fortune – Increase your divinity gain by 35%

    Fixed
    bvira said:


    And for me I would replace Magistrate's Patience with Protector's Friendship (4% more power and defense) since it accounts for less than 1% of the overall dmg for many people. Whereas 4% of 22k power = 880 ~ 2% dmg/heal bonus.

    Good point. I don't have the mounts to test it but does it stack with Protectors Camaraderie? I know @thefabricant says Protector's Camaraderie doesn't stack.
    bvira said:


    Also I think dancing blade is inferior to siege master/air archon/fire archon in terms of dmg because even if your crit chance is 100%, it's just a 2% dmg increase (assuming 150% crit severity). Would be even lower with higher base crit severity and lower crit chance.

    I stack the extra crit because it impacts heals and dps. My intention is not to be strictly a dps cleric. I have 183.5 crit severity
    It does stack now putz, forgot to update that particular article, it got fixed I think 1 or 2 patches ago (can't remember exactly.) Either way, I have updated my article accordingly.
    Thanks, so when Protectors Camaraderie stacks what portion of the first stack does it increase? Would 2 Protectors Camaraderie outperform Protectors Camaraderie + Protectors Friendship.
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