GF Class Balance blog post

greyhawk

We have the 'reasons' behind the SW and HR balance changes, but no blog post about why you all took a chainsaw to almost every useful GF skill.

When can we expect to see that?

Thanks, and have a nice day

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greyhawk

I'd like to see why GFs are no longer required to stack Defense, personally. Every other class in the game is rewarded for stacking Power - even OPs with Aura Gifts benefit. GFs stacking Defense on companions and everywhere else to improve ItF was a fantastic mechanic that promoted character growth. Not having that is a terrible design choice IMO. Even if they made ItF scale to a percentage of DR - like 20℅ so one could conceivably only reach like a 40℅ damage buff - that would allow us to keep the companions and gear choices we've made and still bring ItF down to size.

Thus flat buff means all I levels buff the same is counter intuitive to character growth, and has killed my desire to play my favorite class. I don't have the Zen or AD to completely revamp my GF...

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greyhawk

Even doing that can a GF even come close to a dps class? I've always heard stuff about GFs being the top dps but I've never seen it or know how to get there. But that's a sizable investment in companions and other things. Just upsetting to have the rug pulled out when there are other ways to tone things down.

gomok72

greyhawk#1973 said:

We have the 'reasons' behind the SW and HR balance changes, but no blog post about why you all took a chainsaw to almost every useful GF skill.



When can we expect to see that?



Thanks, and have a nice day

Err, mobs being hit for half their health "Bosses" and people being hit for 600k bull charge and 600k Anvils through full tenacity and you don't know why they took a chain saw to them?

Look at the videos on youtube and on the forums here that people have been putting up man. GF are not strikers, they are tanks. While I will say, no class in this game should be hitting mobs or individuals like that (SW or GWF), the game overall should be about balance and "Trinity".

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greyhawk

@gomok72

Umm those weren't the skills I was referring to but ok. Those skills needed reworked I'm sure but flat damage buff to ItF and double recharge time on Lunging Strike, and hard target cap on ET, were what I was thinking of. Obviously those types of numbers you mention were out of balance but they could fix those without hurting other QoL skills...

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ghoulz66

defiantone99 said:

The numbers coming from GF are absurd for a tank class.

Most GFs don't run KC doing dailies and such. All the wrong things will be getting nerfed when people keep to cry for nerfs.

greyhawk

I've never even slotted KC... If it's that imbalanced then fix it, but leave some reason to grow my char. I highly doubt that a GF can match or exceed the dps of a good GWF unless it's with some gimmick skill. When I was Conq specd for leveling I was still behind on the charts. The class is not a dps beast for all intents and purposes.

Looks like my post may have attracted the wrong viewers. I just want to know the devs reasons for all of these proposed changes..

thestia

I'm sure it had to do with the fact that with ITF based on DR contributed to our current state of the game; bosses are capable of being killed in less than 10 seconds using DR based ITF and stacking copious amounts of de/buffs.

Devs often say they don't want their content trivialized, this rework is an expression of that. As Lancer said, they are reworking the most used powers and the most underused powers in an effort to achieve a more balanced class.

urabask

thestia said:

I'm sure it had to do with the fact that with ITF based on DR contributed to our current state of the game; bosses are capable of being killed in less than 10 seconds using DR based ITF and stacking copious amounts of de/buffs.



Devs often say they don't want their content trivialized, this rework is an expression of that. As Lancer said, they are reworking the most used powers and the most underused powers in an effort to achieve a more balanced class.

Meanwhile HR gets Longstrider shot which is better by itself (+40% party damage) and needs no investment in recovery to have 100% up time. The reason why they did a nerf like this is because they're lazy and don't want to have to test anything.

defiantone99 said:

So, go full offense. That is what will happen, a whole server of FoTM DPS GFs and nobody to tank a dungeon.

Not really. You hit the DR cap and then start slotting radiants. GFs are going to be tankier if anything. They just might have a slightly slower ITF because they're not investing in recovery as much.

And that goes right back to Longstrider shot ... to stay relevant GFs will have stack some recovery while HRs just get it for free. Again, this nerf was straight up lazy and did not take into account the investment it takes to make ITF any good or how good the buffs other classes have are.

thestia

I agree that devs aren't playing this game as much as we do, which makes sense; I wouldn't want to work on a game all day and then go play it until I fell asleep. Unfortunately this means that their grasp of certain aspects is lacking.

The argument that another class' buff gives more than ITF is a poor reason to keep it as it is currently, however.

urabask

thestia said:

I agree that devs aren't playing this game as much as we do, which makes sense; I wouldn't want to work on a game all day and then go play it until I fell asleep. Unfortunately this means that their grasp of certain aspects is lacking.



The argument that another class' buff gives more than ITF is a poor reason to keep it as it is currently, however.

I never said that they need to keep it as it currently is. I said that the nerf they chose was lazy and doesn't take into consideration the investment players required to make ITF effective. They could've easily made all the defense and recovery players invested still relevant while still leaving ITF a buff that justified taking a GF in your party (because frankly this was the only reason why anyone takes GFs). Instead they saw ITF was OP and nerfed it into the ground without even bothering to note that other classes (even ones that they are actually doing a balance pass on this mod) have better buffs than what they've nerfed ITF too.

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urabask

metalldjt said:

urabask said:

thestia said:

I agree that devs aren't playing this game as much as we do, which makes sense; I wouldn't want to work on a game all day and then go play it until I fell asleep. Unfortunately this means that their grasp of certain aspects is lacking.



The argument that another class' buff gives more than ITF is a poor reason to keep it as it is currently, however.

I never said that they need to keep it as it currently is. I said that the nerf they chose was lazy and doesn't take into consideration the investment players required to make ITF effective. They could've easily made all the defense and recovery players invested still relevant while still leaving ITF a buff that justified taking a GF in your party (because frankly this was the only reason why anyone takes GFs). Instead they saw ITF was OP and nerfed it into the ground without even bothering to note that other classes (even ones that they are actually doing a balance pass on this mod) have better buffs than what they've nerfed ITF too.

the reason people take GFs in the party is because they need a TANK, the same reason it applies for Paladin, while the 2nd reason which it wasn't fair at all was the ammount of BUFFS that a GF brought to the group: ITF (not adding the rest of his abilities) which made the content really easy , for module 10 we finally could say that we have some sort of DPS and BUFF balance which makes the PvE event more exciting, the GF and Paladin will find room in peoples part as they've done...
there are 4 striker classes in this game and 2 tanky classes, and every dungeon out there and the new ones that get released a group will be in need of a TANK.
so stop creating drama over something that it's not even worth doing so.
GF is one of best classes in module 10.

I just cannot wait to enjoy playin a DPS class that won't do 6-9 mil damage IBS, because of some silly buffs that gone out of control.

i give a hip and hooray for the changes.

Which is why people will just take OPs instead now. They're better tanks and they provide better buffs.

Seriously do you even think when you post this drivel?

Please don't even try to say that you care about the impact on PvE because it just shows your ignorance of the upcoming PvE meta. They didn't change enough of anything to actually make PvE challenging, it's just going to be a bit slower and the rewards will be worse.

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urabask

macjae said:

urabask said:

Please don't even try to say that you care about the impact on PvE because it just shows your ignorance of the upcoming PvE meta. They didn't change enough of anything to actually make PvE challenging, it's just going to be a bit slower and the rewards will be worse.

They still haven't released the new dungeon for testing, so we have no idea how the meta for that will play out.

Eh...

What could they possibly add that would make you want to take a GF over an OP?

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urabask

metalldjt said:

urabask said:

metalldjt said:

urabask said:

thestia said:

I agree that devs aren't playing this game as much as we do, which makes sense; I wouldn't want to work on a game all day and then go play it until I fell asleep. Unfortunately this means that their grasp of certain aspects is lacking.



The argument that another class' buff gives more than ITF is a poor reason to keep it as it is currently, however.

I never said that they need to keep it as it currently is. I said that the nerf they chose was lazy and doesn't take into consideration the investment players required to make ITF effective. They could've easily made all the defense and recovery players invested still relevant while still leaving ITF a buff that justified taking a GF in your party (because frankly this was the only reason why anyone takes GFs). Instead they saw ITF was OP and nerfed it into the ground without even bothering to note that other classes (even ones that they are actually doing a balance pass on this mod) have better buffs than what they've nerfed ITF too.

the reason people take GFs in the party is because they need a TANK, the same reason it applies for Paladin, while the 2nd reason which it wasn't fair at all was the ammount of BUFFS that a GF brought to the group: ITF (not adding the rest of his abilities) which made the content really easy , for module 10 we finally could say that we have some sort of DPS and BUFF balance which makes the PvE event more exciting, the GF and Paladin will find room in peoples part as they've done...
there are 4 striker classes in this game and 2 tanky classes, and every dungeon out there and the new ones that get released a group will be in need of a TANK.
so stop creating drama over something that it's not even worth doing so.
GF is one of best classes in module 10.

I just cannot wait to enjoy playin a DPS class that won't do 6-9 mil damage IBS, because of some silly buffs that gone out of control.

i give a hip and hooray for the changes.

Which is why people will just take OPs instead now. They're better tanks and they provide better buffs.

Seriously do you even think when you post this drivel?

Please don't even try to say that you care about the impact on PvE because it just shows your ignorance of the upcoming PvE meta. They didn't change enough of anything to actually make PvE challenging, it's just going to be a bit slower and the rewards will be worse.

im pretty sure that im doing more PvE than you, i spent over 1 month farming for legendary rings until i won one, thats problably equivalent to your entire time spent in the game, so please stop tryin to devalue my posts, i do as much PvE as everyone else. And to squash this idea that people will take OP over the GF , we will have to see after the changes are applied, but hey i hope you bring an apology letter when you will notice that people will take either GF or Paladin in their groups if they need a tank, pretty sure the GFs will not be left out, so stop posting these apocalyptic scenarios because we all know what you are after, this is like your 5th quote on me, if you want to prove me wrong, please atleast bring some strong points.

Eh. I've got around ~1500 hours over the past year so I don't really think it matters much. You're more concerned about PvP than PvE and your bias is blatant. These changes won't affect me much but if you really think the LFG or PVE channels aren't going to suddenly find a new need for OPs in T3s you're out of your mind.

And seriously this is my 5th quote on you because you post nonsense without having played the class. Go back to playing GWF or start playing a GF so you can get a clue.

abrams121

PvP will always be garbage in this game if they keep trying to make the same rules that apply in PvE apply to it.

lantern22

metalldjt said:

it is the same idea of what they've done with the others.
they tonne down the useful ones and buffest the useless ones, so that it can give more options for more builds... in theory this is a good idea and i wish they can do that for my GWF as well.

Yeah but when you take a really HAMSTER skill and add a little bit of buff so it is a slightly better but still HAMSTER skill, it makes no difference cause its still HAMSTER.

For example - they are proposing to nerf Tide of Iron so it is useless in parties and a GF would have to be a HAMSTER to slot it, but hey they buffed the damage by 30% like that is going to make any difference. Noone will ever use tide of iron for damage. See that is just a waste and it is a faux buff. Its almost as irrelevant as saying "look we nerfed the GF's Tide of Iron, but hey we buffed a random GWF at will by 30%"

imo they need to change 5-10 of the GF's skills / feats etc. Not play around with everything. And as far as GF buff/debuff nerfing - the ITF nerf is enough.

@urabask - this guy has been campaigning for the GF to be nerfed as hard as anyone else (only defiant is up there), of course he is going to see it out with posts on every GF topic telling us all about how good it will still be. Kind of strange, given that he doesn't play the GF class at all.

strumslinger

The GF blog will go out this week with much more information on STK, as well.

theguiido

strumslinger said:

The GF blog will go out this week with much more information on STK, as well.

STK?

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greyhawk

Thanks Strum. I'd like to propose removing Into the Fray from the game, as there are plenty of damage buffs in game already. I would love to see a new mechanic introduced, in its place, that made it desirable for a GF to stack Defense. On their gear AND their companions. That was such a unique mechanic, in the game, and it would be a shame to lose that becaus one stupid buff got out of hand.

Plus, I wouldn't have to completely abandon gear and companions that I've spent a ton on upgrading...

ghoulz66

greyhawk#1973 said:

Thanks Strum. I'd like to propose removing Into the Fray from the game, as there are plenty of damage buffs in game already. I would love to see a new mechanic introduced, in its place, that made it desirable for a GF to stack Defense. On their gear AND their companions. That was such a unique mechanic, in the game, and it would be a shame to lose that becaus one stupid buff got out of hand.



Plus, I wouldn't have to completely abandon gear and companions that I've spent a ton on upgrading...

Plenty, he said. No need for the GF when the OP can buff damage and recharge time.

................

theguiido

ghoulz66 said:

greyhawk#1973 said:

Thanks Strum. I'd like to propose removing Into the Fray from the game, as there are plenty of damage buffs in game already. I would love to see a new mechanic introduced, in its place, that made it desirable for a GF to stack Defense. On their gear AND their companions. That was such a unique mechanic, in the game, and it would be a shame to lose that becaus one stupid buff got out of hand.



Plus, I wouldn't have to completely abandon gear and companions that I've spent a ton on upgrading...

Plenty, he said. No need for the GF when the OP can buff damage and recharge time.

................

Yeah because lets leave the GF in the dust in handicap land, thats the right thing to do. I feel like I have entered the CW/TR part of the forums lol.

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greyhawk

Something would be nice. At a certain average group ilvl a true tank is not even needed, from what I see on a daily basis. Plenty of groups with four dps and a buff/debuff DC complete the current hardest content (CN), with ease.

Maybe this new dungeon will usher in a new era of the holy trinity, but I think that'll soon be the same as CN. Like you mentioned, there are so many available methods for healing that the need for support roles is diminishing rapidly.

That's why I loved ItF scaling off of my Defense stat. It was a very valuable buff, for rapidly clearing mundane content, and it meant I was wanted in high level groups. Plus, I could grow my character around maximizing that desirable buff. Having a flat percentage kills that utterly. I'm just not understanding why they couldn't have it scale with my Defense, but have a it not buff to the extent that it did. Not a maximum buff ceiling, but say with currently available gear the max buff would be like the proposed 25℅ increase. If my gear is weaker than that the buff will be weaker. And my gear is definitely weaker than the max!

Then, I am still desired in groups, and I have a strong reason to keep developing my character.

I'm completely at a loss trying to understand why the GF community is willing to roll over on his, and instead wants to bicker about the other changes. Let's concentrate on the steak (our group desirability), and not the peas (all these other changes).

Of course they should fix things like KC and some of the other skills, too...

Just one man's opinion.