GWF doesn't need damage but they need power diversity/choice. Right now the viability of the class is sustained by a couple of powers which are fine and that's all.
There are some interesting Tank powers but they will simply not be played because the tree sucks : both Sentinel and Instigator Trees have a bunch of feats that have nothing to do here and force you to have a specific underpowered power choice; these feats tell you "Here, you'll have a viable power and not a bad one". Too bad, it's not even worth. Let's enumerate what's wrong :
Underpowered. It became less good in this meta where crit is easy to get.
T2 Reinforced Surge Prone for an additional 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/.5 1/2/3/4/5% more damage.
5% ? Underpowered. Plus I remember FS nerf.
T3 Warrior's Rush Your Mighty Leap now cools down 5/10/15/20/25% faster + 1 sec silence
That's typically the kind of feat which tries to tell you "look this power will look good with me". Hell no, Mighty Leap sucks.
T4 Nimble Runner Sprint and Punishing Charge 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect chance.
What is Punishing Charge ? Oh, that power which grants you that much mobility that you don't even know how to spend it ?
T4 Allied Opportunity Mighty Leap and Not so Fast deal an additional 6/12/18/24/30% damage and you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged targets for 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5s.
Honestly the second part is great, it basically gives you permanent Combat Advantage. But meh the first part. Before giving damages to these powers, they should first have some decent base damages. You can remove that part and give this +30% damage to these power base damage so that they start being interesting for any path you choose.
T5 Crippling Strike
Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel Slow by 10/20/30/40/50% for 5s.
When you think about it, it's not a bad feat. However, what is the aim ? Spinning Strike makes you faster, so you already stick the ennemy. Avalanche of Steel prones the ennemy. 2 controls in one ? Why not, but is it really needed ? Would something else be better ? I think yes. These 2 powers are in my opinion already quite complete.
T6 Instigator's Vengeance
Your damage is increased by 10%. This value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a total maximum bonus of 50%. Instigator's Vengeance expires after 6 seconds of not getting hit.
The aim of this last feat is interesting, but counter-intuitive. It's to make an assassin fighter : being very Mobile, dodging around Deflection, and striking behind the ennemies with Combat Advantage and Crit, with risks
The path wants you to take the least damages/strikes but it's final feat wants you to take damages to increase yours. Then come the problems :
- I'm the first to strike. Utility of Instigator's ? - Ennemies can't strike me because they're either controlled, killed or focusing someone else. Utility of Instigator's ? - I'm about to get struck, but with my path and play style, I dodge, deflect, and am very mobile. I gain stacks very slowly. Is Instigator's useful in that case ? - I'm about to get struck, I take a bunch of damages, I gain stacks, all right, we kill the ennemies. Thanks to the duration, I have to take damages from every group of ennemies to get stacks. Why not, a GWF which has to take risks. But they do lot of damages. Is Instigator's worth taking the risk to die from any groups ? - Boss fight, rarely focuses me. Utility of Instigator's ?
In brief, Instigator's has an interesting point of view which makes of you an assassin striker which has to take risk (and it's imo fine). However, the way to get stacks and its duration is REALLY underpowered, which makes the feat clearly almost useless. Increasing its duration and adding ways to add/keep/refresh stacks around the way Instigator is made would be pretty interesting, like :
- Deflecting grants 2 stacks - Critting on an enemy which has Combat Advantage grant 1 stack - Critting on a controlled ennemy has a chance to grant Combat Advantage - Duration increased to 10 seconds
Destroyer :
Only viable path, I'd tend to say it's only damage damage damage, which, in fact, fits the path. There are however some feats that are laughable :
T2 - Improved Reaction Ferocious Reaction Heals you for an additional 2/4/6/8/10% of your max Hit Points.
Why not, or you can simply add it when you level up it
T4 - Relentless Battle Fury Reduces the Cooldown of Roar, Takedown, and Battle Fury by 10/20/30/40/50%. The damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/2/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%.
I would have said nothing it the powers were good enough before the feat. Or you can simply remove the first part, reduce their base cooldown by 50% and here you go, all paths can use them ! Unbelievable right ?
Sentinel
There are feats that are underpowered or .. stupid ?
T1 - Unstoppable Recovery Activating Unstoppable now Heals you for 1/2/3/4/5% of your maximum Hit Points.
I have 100k HP and took half damages in my face, thanks to this feat I will heal 5k HP #worth
T2 - Powerful Challenge You deal an additional 3/6/9/12/15% damage to Marked targets.
This one is weird. I thought it was a Tank path. I agree with you that Tanks with a bit of damages are appreciated, but a simple Damage increase ? Come on, we can, I believe, think about better ways to make Mark a central mechanic other than "Increase a Tank damage lawl it's a GWF he'll be fine"
T2 - Battle Trample When Trample the Fallen would cause you to deal more damage, you also gain 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage in threat and deal 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage as Physical Damage.
This one looks honestly nice with the threat mechanics, except all these percentage of weapon damage became slight since the lvl got increased to 70 with bunch of HP. Not bad feat but in need to be updated to correspond the current mod.
T4 - Grudge Style Sure Strike now has an extra 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Crit and both Sure Strike and Reaping Strike generate an additional 10/20/30/40/50% Threat.
What is crit doing here ? And well Reaping Strike, too bad you're not good to make this feat relevant <:
T4 - Intimidation Daring Shout and Come and Get It now deal 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage, and generates twice that value as threat. In addition, affected become Intimidated and all of your attacks build 100/200/300/400/500% more threat against them.
As I already said, % weapon damage became irrelevant.
T5 - Master at Arms Furthering your ability to use your weapon defensively, each stack of Weapon Master now also grants .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2% Deflect Chance. Having Weapon Master slotted increases your AC by 1/2/3/4/5 and increases your threat generation by 10/20/30/40/50%.
What's up with all those feats that are focused on threat ?
T5 - Defiance Slam and Spinning Strike generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and your Defense is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% while they are active.
All around threat again ...
T6 - Sentinel's Aegis Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds. Unstoppable now grants 40-80% Damage Resistance when activated. Threat Generation is passively increased by 250%.
You know this feat is clunky.
- Restoring Strike restores heal based on damage dealt. But you're a Tank : you'll deal less damages, you'll heal less. - Alright, Unstoppable gets stronger DR. He's not a GF, he doesn't have shield and he will not have Unstoppable at the start of the fight, so you have to a bunch of damages before starting reducing it ? He'd need base DR increase granted by this feat, and/or a increase in Determination gain on taking damages.
The biggest problems of this path are the feats that are all focused on threat generation and nothing else. Merge all of it into one feat (or T6) that increases threat generation on all powers, we get the power diversity. And the remaining feats slot that have been merged would be reworked into something else better.
Let's talk a bit about powers
- Reaping Strike : it's either rework it or give it a damage increase, obviously. You almost don't move and it's a one hit only.
- Mighty Leap : Already asked for the damage increase in Instigator part. Or even a new mechanic on the zone he touches down.
- Takedown : it's almost a good power, except in my opinion even with the short cooldown the base damage is not competitive with the best single target powers like Flourish or IBS. Little damage buff ?
- Steel Blitz getting reworked already.
- Come and Get it : Damage buff wise, Hidden Daggers is much better. If I had to criticize it, I'd say the pull mechanic is not strong enough, the cooldown a bit high for what it gives, and that it deals no damage. Oh, and maybe the cast time which is kind of high (loss of damage potential ?)
- Grand Fissure : Low damage, just a slow for such a name, and a specific AoE. I'd rather have, like bosses, a high cast time with high burst
- Steadfast Determination : Totally garbage. Rework it.
- Daring Shout : It doesn't look bad, but it looks like a TANK power, and since tank GWF has never been a thing, we don't know. Doesn't need to be touched if Sentinel gets buffed.
- Steel Defense : Underpowered. Needs a rework.
- Punishing Charge : very punishing, yeah. Rework it. More damage at least.
- Wrathful Determination : You have to use Unstoppable not to get killed. Since activating Unstoppable boosts your DPS, is it really worth not using it to get a DPS boost that is the same, while ignoring the damages you can take ? Destroyer, Weapon Master are better in any case, Destroyer (36%) and Wrathful at its max (25%). Damage boost buff or in needs to add a new mechanic.
All Epic Dungeons and Epic Trials where you are one shot. With the old Temp HP you could atleast know when you are about to get one shotted, since it'd ususally be a 2-3 shot so you'd have time to react instead of dying.
Now Unstoppable is very stoppable. In just 1 hit.
No offense. but from what I so in live server there is no content where gwf got killed with 1 hit. And most usual stuff is that many gwf build glass cannon. Thats mean all build goes to offensive regardless survivability. If u choose glasscannon = u should be weaker for incoming hits. If want to survive more incoming hits u must give up some portion of offensive capabilities. That rule apply to all classes, and in any mmorpg.
What you complain sounds like, I want to have glass cannon build which can hold line without problems. If gwf have top dps and have tankines as op/gf. Then why the heck keep that classes at all? Lets make neverwinter around gwf.
In live server met gwf who beat orcus, he didn't move even 1 step aside to dodge incoming hit. He beat HAMSTER from orcus and his HP never drops at 30%. And he didn't use tank companion as some may think. He use augment stone companion. So do it gwf die from 1 hit in most epic dungeons? If u have balanced build then nop. If u make glass cannon. then u should die more.
But sure why not, lets give triple buff to gwf, I have gwf too. So I will get benefits anyway.
And speaking about cw dmg, yeah they also are dps freaks. Lot of guys complain that sw with murderous flame >bug< where overpowered. But how do u like, that I met cw in live server who beat orcus in ~10s. Solo. There where DC, me as sw, cw, + gf + op. And we didn't clear castle never. We dashed through it. I didn't even bothered to cast daily powers, because before warlock done casting all monsters already dead.
And developers expect warlock compete with such dps
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Lets face it there is no place for a off-tank aggro holder in NW unless there are great debuff techniques. WIth the introduction of everfrost damage that cannot get anywhere close to the 80% max DR from the "outside world" and orcus battle, puting a sentinel there is pure suicide, so what the tree really needs is: Flat damage reduction; Control of the aggro at-will.
Even if those things become a reallity there will always be a disavantage on sentinel as the state that it is now because many parties dont need a off tank, they are very well with one tank alone and a sentinel will deal roughly 35% of a destroyer damage. So in my perception it should be:
Instigator: around 80% of destroyer damage, some mobilty, stuns and team buff; Destroyer: pure DPS with some sentinel and instigator synergy(Battle awareness, relentless battle fury); Sentinel: 70% destroyer damage with something around 30% of more capability to resist damage, both for himself and allies and aggro techniques, good ones i hope.
So in order for this to happen destroyer feats need a nerf/rework, and many class features too, take for example focused destroyer, can stack fairly quick 37,5% aditional damage, none of the other 2 trees can add such a tremendous buff.
So for every tree to walk out of this well, we would need to see a huge buff on base powers (specially because hiden daggers needs a nerf, no other way to put this) like amenar explained in HR's thread the damage output is not based only on the power itself but weapon damage ((weapon damage + attack damage)*multipliers)) and he always kept the weapon damage untouched, because messing with weapon damage is messing with a lot of enchants, feats, powers. So the solution resides is some power's being redesigned obvioulsy like mighty leap that couln't be more unpratical, always was as far as i remember but also increases on base damage of powers for amounts like 200, 300%.
Makes sense, give up some offense for more defense. I guess I'll just switch some of my offense slots to defense slots lol.
Seriously though there is some deep rooted hate for the GWF, why don't the haters go take a long walk because off short bridge.
Completly agree that's also why sentinel defensive skills should be inate, not granted by equipment, if a bis gwf want to go sentinel the player should not have string to defence investment (in the case of FBI, more HP) because they dont need it, like it hapen in mod 5. Basicly mantain the damage destroyer as it is now now by nerfing feats/powers/buffs etc and give a rocket boost to base damage so the trees can be easly worked. There may be a lot of hatters but im sure sooner or later i'll be abble to rock my sentinel and actually be usefull
@pr3stigex No hate, just missing objectivity to some degree. Just take counting scars, that's 15% DR on top, you are pretty tanky at low GS doing so. BIS GWF don't need to sacrifice defense for offense i am sure. Maybe it would help to run some more classes to get an overview about actual balance and understand different pov. There are some forummember who are resistant to any argument and some are more handy. Bringing up the old temp HP buff is no solution to get this game balanced. Running arround with 300.000 HP is no option for a striker. I didn't even tested any options and builds about the class nor ever specced my GWF into a tank, maxing HP and defense choosing gear and artifacts, so i can't argue about the ability to tank or theorycraft about it. I also don't think the class needs a big nerf in terms damage, other classes should be adjusted. I definitely know that a striker GWF, according to the damage he dishes out , can be pretty tanky and above some IL he can facetank a lot of content T1, T2 , wich other classes can't. Again , to stay objective you need to run more than 1 class, otherwise it's an empty discussion.
Tanky enough to get one shot by orcus and be completely useless unless there is a GF around. While all the other classes sit back and range him from safety.
I have all classes to 70 minus GF. What most haters don't understand is that with out the DPS the GWF is USELESS beyond USELESS.
Maybe. I never tried to spec for a tank with my GWF and I am sure I am not the only one. No theorycrafting from my side about sentinel tree. I am sure that a rework is needed. At least some GWF checked it I am sure. But to give an answer to the GWF's that get's oneshotted at Orcus, running a <100k PVE destroyer setup, if that's your point? 1. every class get's oneshotted, even a GF at lower gear. 2. in case you get oneshotted even standing beside a GF, avoid taunting the boss by using Daring Shout. 80% of GWF's i run random are too lazy or don't even know about DS being a hard taunt, no matter if i tank or heal or DPS, reading chat's like"that was a bad tank" .
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited August 2016
No no, what i meant for sentinel is:make cap feat similar to temptation, very weak in pvp and debuff based so the sentinel path itself can build the full gwf without fully depend on cap feat(for pvp) like SW temptation that barelly heals due to depression, low damage etc, but has great mobility, survival, too....litle dps atm, i think the rework was kinda cut in the process *cough* *cough*, anyway back on the topic take for example:
The sentinel tree stablishes that by the lvl 54 you'll be dealing 70% the destroyer damage and able to take 30% more damage, all good by now, what the cap feat will do will be for example:
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense, each time you hit your foes you aim to their weapons decresing the damage they deal to you and your allies by 2% per stack up to 10 stacks, each stack will last 15 seconds and fall if you go out of battle. This bonus will only apply to you if the foe keeps face to face with you (obviously in pvp a dodge would cut the effect or simply a side movement, so there was only a problem now, i remembered that i did say some powers should still give the sentinel some control over threath, and they should because of those little nasty mobs that hit your team mates like canonballs, if they flank you they will kill you, so the answer was very simple each time you take damage superior to 20% of your HP in 1 hit you'll gain 2% of your total HP as temp hit points, this would affect pvp but not majorly since hit's vary so much, ofc with a cooldown, at least in pvp).
This is just a "demi-dumb" sugestion but the point is, orcus fight for example, 20% damage reduction on orcus, theone tanking would be the actual tank, but much easier now.
@defiantone99 I monitored the temp HP for a very short period that days, before nerf. Talking about one run or two, I did check my HP. The biggest ammount was 280 k HP being 2.5 IL, at about 100k base HP. Even at low IL (<3k) some managed to solo eGWD that way, skilled player I am sure, but I would avoid to get back there.
I never tried to spec for a tank with my GWF and I am sure I am not the only one.
No theorycrafting from my side about sentinel tree. I am sure that a rework is needed. At least some GWF checked it I am sure.
But to give an answer to the GWF's that get's oneshotted at Orcus, running a <100k PVE destroyer setup, if that's your point?
1. every class get's oneshotted, even a GF at lower gear.
2. in case you get oneshotted even standing beside a GF, avoid taunting the boss by using Daring Shout.
80% of GWF's i run random are too lazy or don't even know about DS being a hard taunt, no matter if i tank or heal or DPS, reading chat's like"that was a bad tank" .
I daring shout all the time and never pull aggro off the tank with just daring. Once I start the rest of the rotation and do good dps, maybe. I cant even pull aggro of my yeti.
1. other classes don't have to get next to orcus.
Lash Urzoth 3.7k GWF, Pr3sTiGe 3k SW.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Overriding what i said before i think a better strategy for aggro in a sentinel would be (still keep the 20% damage reduction on targets): While in unstopable state pressing tab again will release a union protector challenge forcing foes to attack you but they will also be imediatly be afflicted by 10 stacks of "debufing power asdfg"(you get it), no more than 10 stacks (both from your attacks and this calenge) This way the sentinel would have the control over the aggro on targets, and still apply debuff if not pressing tab again while unstopable, needless to say that pvp players canot be forced to attack you so this part would be null.
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
80% of GWF's i run random are too lazy or don't even know about DS being a hard taunt,
It's not a hard taunt, it's a mark. A hard taunt would immidatedly switch aggro to you, regardless of threat levels and threshholds. Defender pets use hard taunts.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
@jaysun Right, not a taunt like GF or Yeti, making the boss look in your direction. GWF has nothing like that. But DS is a tank power , marking the target and putting you on top of threat table. If DS is followed by several 100k+ SS, it's a death sentence...if your GF does no damage it doesn't matter what you do. Your group carries your to the loot.
I only wanted to point at the fact, that a big part of GWF run CN with out knowing why they drop dead beside the boss, one of them just underlined this by posting exactly what I experience so many times. Once I met two proper geared ones far above 3k using Yeti on top all time...nothing more to say if you are the GF in a group
I don't care what the meaning of daring shout it is, its not a hard taunt and doesn't generate nearly the agro you claim. It could be called hard taunt aggro puller and it would matter because that's not what it does.
In a proper Team setup, the casting animation of DS is more than enough to lose you the top spot. Sure, if you are the only damage beast in a group of wet noodles, then yeah, it might become a problem, but at that point your tank is usually dead already and the team wipes to the spheres. DS is not the problem. It's a direct damage boost and damage resist boost, that properly used benefits everyone, especially if you don't have a GF in the group.
Sure, if you want to feel safe AND you have a GF, switch to BF by all means, but stating DS is the reason so many GWFs drop is simply not true. The GF will keep aggro with hard taunts, as will the OP, if they know at least the basics of their class.
It's always wrong to place the fault of a wipe or a casualty on a single player or character. Sure, individual choices make things more difficult, but if Kitten comes to shove you can always solo Orcus to the bitter end.
Tanking Orcus means you got small corridors to Mark, taunt, ToI , ITF/buff and block for sure. You can skip everything/all buffs , just block and press lmb, using shield talent, to prevent loosing aggro and prevent anyone from getting hit except you. But if you do your rotation, every GWF using Mark/Daring Shout can put himself above your threat and in case he follows up with a 1 Million IBS or some 200k Sure Strikes you need to taunt that boss again and again to get aggro back.
Comments
There are some interesting Tank powers but they will simply not be played because the tree sucks : both Sentinel and Instigator Trees have a bunch of feats that have nothing to do here and force you to have a specific underpowered power choice; these feats tell you "Here, you'll have a viable power and not a bad one". Too bad, it's not even worth. Let's enumerate what's wrong :
Instigator
T2 Stunning Flourish
5% crit 1 sec stun
Underpowered. It became less good in this meta where crit is easy to get.
T2 Reinforced Surge
Prone for an additional 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/.5 1/2/3/4/5% more damage.
5% ? Underpowered. Plus I remember FS nerf.
T3 Warrior's Rush
Your Mighty Leap now cools down 5/10/15/20/25% faster + 1 sec silence
That's typically the kind of feat which tries to tell you "look this power will look good with me". Hell no, Mighty Leap sucks.
T4 Nimble Runner
Sprint and Punishing Charge 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect chance.
What is Punishing Charge ? Oh, that power which grants you that much mobility that you don't even know how to spend it ?
T4 Allied Opportunity
Mighty Leap and Not so Fast deal an additional 6/12/18/24/30% damage and you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged targets for 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5s.
Honestly the second part is great, it basically gives you permanent Combat Advantage. But meh the first part. Before giving damages to these powers, they should first have some decent base damages. You can remove that part and give this +30% damage to these power base damage so that they start being interesting for any path you choose.
T5 Crippling Strike
Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel Slow by 10/20/30/40/50% for 5s.
When you think about it, it's not a bad feat. However, what is the aim ? Spinning Strike makes you faster, so you already stick the ennemy. Avalanche of Steel prones the ennemy. 2 controls in one ? Why not, but is it really needed ? Would something else be better ? I think yes. These 2 powers are in my opinion already quite complete.
T6 Instigator's Vengeance
Your damage is increased by 10%. This value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a total maximum bonus of 50%. Instigator's Vengeance expires after 6 seconds of not getting hit.
The aim of this last feat is interesting, but counter-intuitive. It's to make an assassin fighter : being very Mobile, dodging around Deflection, and striking behind the ennemies with Combat Advantage and Crit, with risks
The path wants you to take the least damages/strikes but it's final feat wants you to take damages to increase yours. Then come the problems :
- I'm the first to strike. Utility of Instigator's ?
- Ennemies can't strike me because they're either controlled, killed or focusing someone else. Utility of Instigator's ?
- I'm about to get struck, but with my path and play style, I dodge, deflect, and am very mobile. I gain stacks very slowly. Is Instigator's useful in that case ?
- I'm about to get struck, I take a bunch of damages, I gain stacks, all right, we kill the ennemies. Thanks to the duration, I have to take damages from every group of ennemies to get stacks. Why not, a GWF which has to take risks. But they do lot of damages. Is Instigator's worth taking the risk to die from any groups ?
- Boss fight, rarely focuses me. Utility of Instigator's ?
In brief, Instigator's has an interesting point of view which makes of you an assassin striker which has to take risk (and it's imo fine). However, the way to get stacks and its duration is REALLY underpowered, which makes the feat clearly almost useless. Increasing its duration and adding ways to add/keep/refresh stacks around the way Instigator is made would be pretty interesting, like :
- Deflecting grants 2 stacks
- Critting on an enemy which has Combat Advantage grant 1 stack
- Critting on a controlled ennemy has a chance to grant Combat Advantage
- Duration increased to 10 seconds
Destroyer :
Only viable path, I'd tend to say it's only damage damage damage, which, in fact, fits the path. There are however some feats that are laughable :
T2 - Improved Reaction
Ferocious Reaction Heals you for an additional 2/4/6/8/10% of your max Hit Points.
Why not, or you can simply add it when you level up it
T4 - Relentless Battle Fury
Reduces the Cooldown of Roar, Takedown, and Battle Fury by 10/20/30/40/50%. The damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/2/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%.
I would have said nothing it the powers were good enough before the feat. Or you can simply remove the first part, reduce their base cooldown by 50% and here you go, all paths can use them ! Unbelievable right ?
Sentinel
There are feats that are underpowered or .. stupid ?
T1 - Unstoppable Recovery
Activating Unstoppable now Heals you for 1/2/3/4/5% of your maximum Hit Points.
I have 100k HP and took half damages in my face, thanks to this feat I will heal 5k HP #worth
T2 - Powerful Challenge
You deal an additional 3/6/9/12/15% damage to Marked targets.
This one is weird. I thought it was a Tank path. I agree with you that Tanks with a bit of damages are appreciated, but a simple Damage increase ? Come on, we can, I believe, think about better ways to make Mark a central mechanic other than "Increase a Tank damage lawl it's a GWF he'll be fine"
T2 - Battle Trample
When Trample the Fallen would cause you to deal more damage, you also gain 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage in threat and deal 5/10/15/20/25% of your weapon damage as Physical Damage.
This one looks honestly nice with the threat mechanics, except all these percentage of weapon damage became slight since the lvl got increased to 70 with bunch of HP. Not bad feat but in need to be updated to correspond the current mod.
T4 - Grudge Style
Sure Strike now has an extra 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Crit and both Sure Strike and Reaping Strike generate an additional 10/20/30/40/50% Threat.
What is crit doing here ? And well Reaping Strike, too bad you're not good to make this feat relevant <:
T4 - Intimidation
Daring Shout and Come and Get It now deal 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage, and generates twice that value as threat. In addition, affected become Intimidated and all of your attacks build 100/200/300/400/500% more threat against them.
As I already said, % weapon damage became irrelevant.
T5 - Master at Arms
Furthering your ability to use your weapon defensively, each stack of Weapon Master now also grants .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2% Deflect Chance. Having Weapon Master slotted increases your AC by 1/2/3/4/5 and increases your threat generation by 10/20/30/40/50%.
What's up with all those feats that are focused on threat ?
T5 - Defiance
Slam and Spinning Strike generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and your Defense is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% while they are active.
All around threat again ...
T6 - Sentinel's Aegis
Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds. Unstoppable now grants 40-80% Damage Resistance when activated. Threat Generation is passively increased by 250%.
You know this feat is clunky.
- Restoring Strike restores heal based on damage dealt. But you're a Tank : you'll deal less damages, you'll heal less.
- Alright, Unstoppable gets stronger DR. He's not a GF, he doesn't have shield and he will not have Unstoppable at the start of the fight, so you have to a bunch of damages before starting reducing it ? He'd need base DR increase granted by this feat, and/or a increase in Determination gain on taking damages.
The biggest problems of this path are the feats that are all focused on threat generation and nothing else. Merge all of it into one feat (or T6) that increases threat generation on all powers, we get the power diversity. And the remaining feats slot that have been merged would be reworked into something else better.
Let's talk a bit about powers
- Reaping Strike : it's either rework it or give it a damage increase, obviously. You almost don't move and it's a one hit only.
- Mighty Leap : Already asked for the damage increase in Instigator part. Or even a new mechanic on the zone he touches down.
- Takedown : it's almost a good power, except in my opinion even with the short cooldown the base damage is not competitive with the best single target powers like Flourish or IBS. Little damage buff ?
- Steel Blitz getting reworked already.
- Come and Get it : Damage buff wise, Hidden Daggers is much better. If I had to criticize it, I'd say the pull mechanic is not strong enough, the cooldown a bit high for what it gives, and that it deals no damage. Oh, and maybe the cast time which is kind of high (loss of damage potential ?)
- Grand Fissure : Low damage, just a slow for such a name, and a specific AoE. I'd rather have, like bosses, a high cast time with high burst
- Steadfast Determination : Totally garbage. Rework it.
- Daring Shout : It doesn't look bad, but it looks like a TANK power, and since tank GWF has never been a thing, we don't know. Doesn't need to be touched if Sentinel gets buffed.
- Steel Defense : Underpowered. Needs a rework.
- Punishing Charge : very punishing, yeah. Rework it. More damage at least.
- Wrathful Determination : You have to use Unstoppable not to get killed. Since activating Unstoppable boosts your DPS, is it really worth not using it to get a DPS boost that is the same, while ignoring the damages you can take ? Destroyer, Weapon Master are better in any case, Destroyer (36%) and Wrathful at its max (25%). Damage boost buff or in needs to add a new mechanic.
If u choose glasscannon = u should be weaker for incoming hits. If want to survive more incoming hits u must give up some portion of offensive capabilities. That rule apply to all classes, and in any mmorpg.
What you complain sounds like, I want to have glass cannon build which can hold line without problems. If gwf have top dps and have tankines as op/gf. Then why the heck keep that classes at all? Lets make neverwinter around gwf.
In live server met gwf who beat orcus, he didn't move even 1 step aside to dodge incoming hit. He beat HAMSTER from orcus and his HP never drops at 30%. And he didn't use tank companion as some may think. He use augment stone companion.
So do it gwf die from 1 hit in most epic dungeons? If u have balanced build then nop. If u make glass cannon. then u should die more.
But sure why not, lets give triple buff to gwf, I have gwf too. So I will get benefits anyway.
And speaking about cw dmg, yeah they also are dps freaks. Lot of guys complain that sw with murderous flame >bug< where overpowered.
But how do u like, that I met cw in live server who beat orcus in ~10s. Solo. There where DC, me as sw, cw, + gf + op. And we didn't clear castle never. We dashed through it. I didn't even bothered to cast daily powers, because before warlock done casting all monsters already dead.
And developers expect warlock compete with such dps
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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WIth the introduction of everfrost damage that cannot get anywhere close to the 80% max DR from the "outside world" and orcus battle, puting a sentinel there is pure suicide, so what the tree really needs is:
Flat damage reduction;
Control of the aggro at-will.
Even if those things become a reallity there will always be a disavantage on sentinel as the state that it is now because many parties dont need a off tank, they are very well with one tank alone and a sentinel will deal roughly 35% of a destroyer damage. So in my perception it should be:
Instigator: around 80% of destroyer damage, some mobilty, stuns and team buff;
Destroyer: pure DPS with some sentinel and instigator synergy(Battle awareness, relentless battle fury);
Sentinel: 70% destroyer damage with something around 30% of more capability to resist damage, both for himself and allies and aggro techniques, good ones i hope.
So in order for this to happen destroyer feats need a nerf/rework, and many class features too, take for example focused destroyer, can stack fairly quick 37,5% aditional damage, none of the other 2 trees can add such a tremendous buff.
So for every tree to walk out of this well, we would need to see a huge buff on base powers (specially because hiden daggers needs a nerf, no other way to put this) like amenar explained in HR's thread the damage output is not based only on the power itself but weapon damage ((weapon damage + attack damage)*multipliers)) and he always kept the weapon damage untouched, because messing with weapon damage is messing with a lot of enchants, feats, powers. So the solution resides is some power's being redesigned obvioulsy like mighty leap that couln't be more unpratical, always was as far as i remember but also increases on base damage of powers for amounts like 200, 300%.
Seriously though there is some deep rooted hate for the GWF, why don't the haters go take a long walk because off short bridge.
Basicly mantain the damage destroyer as it is now now by nerfing feats/powers/buffs etc and give a rocket boost to base damage so the trees can be easly worked. There may be a lot of hatters but im sure sooner or later i'll be abble to rock my sentinel and actually be usefull
No hate, just missing objectivity to some degree.
Just take counting scars, that's 15% DR on top, you are pretty tanky at low GS doing so. BIS GWF don't need to sacrifice defense for offense i am sure.
Maybe it would help to run some more classes to get an overview about actual balance and understand different pov.
There are some forummember who are resistant to any argument and some are more handy.
Bringing up the old temp HP buff is no solution to get this game balanced. Running arround with 300.000 HP is no option for a striker.
I didn't even tested any options and builds about the class nor ever specced my GWF into a tank, maxing HP and defense choosing gear and artifacts, so i can't argue about the ability to tank or theorycraft about it.
I also don't think the class needs a big nerf in terms damage, other classes should be adjusted.
I definitely know that a striker GWF, according to the damage he dishes out , can be pretty tanky and above some IL he can facetank a lot of content T1, T2 , wich other classes can't.
Again , to stay objective you need to run more than 1 class, otherwise it's an empty discussion.
I have all classes to 70 minus GF. What most haters don't understand is that with out the DPS the GWF is USELESS beyond USELESS.
I never tried to spec for a tank with my GWF and I am sure I am not the only one.
No theorycrafting from my side about sentinel tree. I am sure that a rework is needed. At least some GWF checked it I am sure.
But to give an answer to the GWF's that get's oneshotted at Orcus, running a <100k PVE destroyer setup, if that's your point?
1. every class get's oneshotted, even a GF at lower gear.
2. in case you get oneshotted even standing beside a GF, avoid taunting the boss by using Daring Shout.
80% of GWF's i run random are too lazy or don't even know about DS being a hard taunt, no matter if i tank or heal or DPS, reading chat's like"that was a bad tank" .
The sentinel tree stablishes that by the lvl 54 you'll be dealing 70% the destroyer damage and able to take 30% more damage, all good by now, what the cap feat will do will be for example:
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense, each time you hit your foes you aim to their weapons decresing the damage they deal to you and your allies by 2% per stack up to 10 stacks, each stack will last 15 seconds and fall if you go out of battle. This bonus will only apply to you if the foe keeps face to face with you (obviously in pvp a dodge would cut the effect or simply a side movement, so there was only a problem now, i remembered that i did say some powers should still give the sentinel some control over threath, and they should because of those little nasty mobs that hit your team mates like canonballs, if they flank you they will kill you, so the answer was very simple each time you take damage superior to 20% of your HP in 1 hit you'll gain 2% of your total HP as temp hit points, this would affect pvp but not majorly since hit's vary so much, ofc with a cooldown, at least in pvp).
This is just a "demi-dumb" sugestion but the point is, orcus fight for example, 20% damage reduction on orcus, theone tanking would be the actual tank, but much easier now.
I monitored the temp HP for a very short period that days, before nerf.
Talking about one run or two, I did check my HP. The biggest ammount was 280 k HP being 2.5 IL, at about 100k base HP.
Even at low IL (<3k) some managed to solo eGWD that way, skilled player I am sure, but I would avoid to get back there.
1. other classes don't have to get next to orcus.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1218293/gwf-ninja-nerf-for-wms-and-ws-or-a-bug
Dead🔪Right, not a taunt like GF or Yeti, making the boss look in your direction. GWF has nothing like that.
But DS is a tank power , marking the target and putting you on top of threat table. If DS is followed by several 100k+ SS, it's a death sentence...if your GF does no damage it doesn't matter what you do. Your group carries your to the loot.
I only wanted to point at the fact, that a big part of GWF run CN with out knowing why they drop dead beside the boss, one of them just underlined this by posting exactly what I experience so many times.
Once I met two proper geared ones far above 3k using Yeti on top all time...nothing more to say if you are the GF in a group
Thanks.
Dead🔪no damage=low threat
But some GWF tend to deal huge damage.
Otherones also tried to understand threatgeneration, in the sum... DS = Bad idea standing beside orcus
https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/546710/mark-based-threat-working-for-gwfs
DS is not the problem. It's a direct damage boost and damage resist boost, that properly used benefits everyone, especially if you don't have a GF in the group.
Sure, if you want to feel safe AND you have a GF, switch to BF by all means, but stating DS is the reason so many GWFs drop is simply not true. The GF will keep aggro with hard taunts, as will the OP, if they know at least the basics of their class.
It's always wrong to place the fault of a wipe or a casualty on a single player or character. Sure, individual choices make things more difficult, but if Kitten comes to shove you can always solo Orcus to the bitter end.
https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/546710/mark-based-threat-working-for-gwfs
Tanking Orcus means you got small corridors to Mark, taunt, ToI , ITF/buff and block for sure.
You can skip everything/all buffs , just block and press lmb, using shield talent, to prevent loosing aggro and prevent anyone from getting hit except you.
But if you do your rotation, every GWF using Mark/Daring Shout can put himself above your threat and in case he follows up with a 1 Million IBS or some 200k Sure Strikes you need to taunt that boss again and again to get aggro back.