HR Trapper is Too Strong-Needs Balancing

donnyth

I see this alot in this game but I think HR is probably the biggest offender here where there is a build which is the best and everyone just plays that build because the other builds are just useless. In a good game, each build should have their strengths and weakness. For example, if I'm a GF and I want to do more dps, I should suffer tanking penalties. Or if I'm a CW and want to buff/support, I should suffer dps penalties. As of right now, HR trapper doesn't seem to have any of these penalties. Trappers can basically just run in, deal a ton of damage, and keep everything dazed and rooted. There is no reason to pick any of the other trees. It is the best dps and the best CC. Here's my suggestion.

Archery: because range is a less risky gameplay, it should deal slightly less damage but more than trapper but have less utility such as CC or buffs
Combat: this should deal the most damage because melee combat is riskier. If a HR becomes just another TR, it should have dps on par with TR's
Trapper: this should be less damage but high CC and buffs thereby filling the role of support - the final ability in this build could be something like adding some kind of effect to all HR's buffing abilities or doubles their effect

urabask

Pretty much every class has this problem : \

donnyth

ok

silverkelt

Some classes have two lines of use, some only have one. This is the way the game has always been. Pretty much all GWF have been sent, then destroyer, then sent, then destroyer.

The DC kind of had three lines of use, but now its more knocked down to 2. Since virtuous is no longer useful for the most part and the big reason to go virt was full battery build, is now removed. So if you want to heal just go faithful and if you want to buff, go righteouss.

Dont think at all this is a HR only issue.

The issue here is trapper is the only real way to compete via dps with other dps builds, archery sucks.

Combat was the BEST.. the VERY most FUN thing in this entire game back in mod 2... With the movement speeds and the profound sets.. OMG.

Oh well.. dont get used to any one build.. they always change anyways.

lirithiel

The problem with Trapper is the amount of free damage from root ticks. Remove that mechanic and Trapper is just as pish-poor as Archer and Combat. Also the capstone is far superior to both Archer and Combat ones.

oldbaldyone

You essentially have defeated your own argument.

Archery - less damage and less utility because its ranged? How is this supposed to be enticing to use? Ranged classes are almost always HIGHER damage than melee, but that is usually countered by the fact that they have little survivability if the opponent moves to melee. Here, that doesn't matter as I can shoot arrows point blank and at a certain point, survivability doesn't really come in to play.

I'd say Archery needs more damage and more buff mechanics. Maybe not much CC or high DR on CCs to allow soloing. BUT, once an opponent closes the gap, they are in trouble (perhaps a bonus to damage against them, or their abilities take a serious range related damage reduction).

Combat: A combat HR should be the most durable of all the trees, and perhaps provide the group with more offensive bonuses. I could agree that overall, Combat should be the high DPS tree overall, with archery a close second (higher at range, lower in melee).

Trapper: Less damage than combat, less survivability, but more control and maybe buffs than the others. Should be the sneaky, kill with a thousand needles tree.

That all said, DPS is king and survivability is easily attained, so no matter what happens, people will go to the high DPS tree until they have a reason not to.

Good luck making more than 1 tree viable.

jhpnw

I always love the People who troll HR Forum with nerf Trapper threads. I do hope I was the one who CCed or killed you in PVP and set you off. Im a top shelf HR and play trapper but compared to other classes my Item level I am below par. IF they play there toon to max potential as I do! GWF, TR, SW and CW all will beat my dps. in PVE and You can forget PVP. So Trapper is not competitive either . I do get beat in Dps a lot from some of the top shelf Archers in Game During Tia so not sure how You can say Archer is so weak. Fortunately for me more and more players don't realize the full potential of HR or any of the other Classes either so those that have figured it out do quite well. I will say that running cookie cutter trapper builds does not help any more you have to master your playstyle and spect your toon correctly focused around a few specific goals to be top shelf .
Ara

dmcewen

High IL trappers shouldn't get beat by CW's and TR's in PVE. Building a trappers is about stat distribution, companions and gear not about the standard cookie cutter trapper build. The archer that beat you in TIamat was probably using split the sky.

oldbaldyone

The only people that beat my 4.2 full trapper are GWFs and people who are really good with their class. I admit though, most of the time I don't do optimal rotations and I'm not trying to be top DPS all the time. Why bother going full blast when you are only going to beat things a little faster....(timed instances withstanding of course).

I'd love more diversity, but the game seems to be actively trying to disuade people from it.

durugudesu

dmcewen said:

High IL trappers shouldn't get beat by CW's and TR's in PVE. Building a trappers is about stat distribution, companions and gear not about the standard cookie cutter trapper build. The archer that beat you in TIamat was probably using split the sky.

Guess you havent met most of my TR and CW friends. )

dmcewen

I don't play on PC but too many times I see Rangers using mod 5 rotations or suboptimal companions, enchantments or gear. Fox cunning/fox shift shouldn't be used when you have no problems surviving.

Rangers have such a bad reputation for dps and it might be a good thing for flying under the radar. A Ranger has potential to out dps GWF's with ease and even most SW's that have super buffs. All the information is out there, just not in the same guide.

The other two trees just need a major buff. @oldbaldyone statement couldn't be more correct about everyone flocking to the highest dps tree.

durugudesu

@oldbaldyone statement couldn't be more correct about everyone flocking to the highest dps tree.

Before Sume proved and showed people how to do massive dps with a hunter ranger, people kept complaining on how useless HRs are, and now that he shared his secrets in the open, (i think most) people then followed to try and do more dps, and now people are complaining that there is only 1 viable build, like that build was so obvious from before(?) when there were just a few people who figured this out before the videos even came out, and so this is getting repetitive and once again depressing.

If you are unsatisfied with your HR, and you think you have done everything possible to further improve on it, then i suggest deleting it and make a new one. If you are gonna argue that he is BIS, and you are not, well then get those gears to BIS too and then try to compare your overall output, not now when you are NOT BIS because you are looking down on them when you dare compare your overall output to those who are near BIS and most likely have had played and mastered their toons mechanics for quite some time.

Unknown

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jhpnw

dmcewen said:

High IL trappers shouldn't get beat by CW's and TR's in PVE. Building a trappers is about stat distribution, companions and gear not about the standard cookie cutter trapper build. The archer that beat you in TIamat was probably using split the sky.

In my guild we have 4k il and here is how HR stacks up in Dragon flight and its every time CW 750 mil GWF 566 mil HR 560 Mil and TR 501 mil This CW is king no changing that and in edemo the results are the same the 2nd 3rd and 4th spot all up for grabs and can change if one of us makes a mistake.

jaegernl

Is this HR doing his best to DPS, or is he/she being the good-guy HR and spamming Longstriders? I've been staying away from Hawk Eye in my buff rotation as the risk of an Instagib is too high - thus HAMSTER up a coordinated kill - but it does cripple my personal damage.

jhpnw

with GF and OPS and DCS buffing in DF and they are all my IL. No need to run a buff HR. Dragons are done in 2 minutes then we zerg From green to Black and hes done in 2minutes. but the issue is HR wont compete because you can only do so much dps. Others such as CW does 10 mil ice knifes GWF has 1.5 mil damages at wills and Hr gets a max of 650 k for a seismic shot and 570k cordons and they smash dragon before you can get the ticks from you best Damage of root tics. I maximize every thing in DF 10% damage potions, AOTS, seekers, Careful attack, wheel @ teal, 3 rank 12 bonding shadow demon 2 rooting encounters for keeping Thorned roots applied. I have trans dread and power is 50k, crit is 100% , crit sev just under 200%, boons are all for max dps. Im getting everything there is to get out of trapper dps. Just our dps per encounter is low compared to others with same IL
Ara

durugudesu

A tip. take out your shadow demon, replace it with a companion with a useful active bonus. change seekers to aotp if you have many members doing df, that way you can have the offhand bonus 8% up almost all the time. take out hindering shot and replace it with fox or longstrider. you dont need 2 roots, and you lose cooldown when you run out of charges from hidnering and cordon.

Crit sev 200-Oh. not a full trapper. nevermind.

and no, sorry to say, but you are not getting everything there is out of a trapper.

dmcewen

@jhpnw...^^THIS!!! Imo having two types of roots is better though, just my preference. Strong and weak grasping roots stack.

gilbertojhun

I'm sure that this thread was created by someone who's got killed on PVP by a HR. No sense. Even trapper tree is stronger than others, its not the problem; combat and archery need improvements to be more useful. HRs dps is too low compared to other classes

durugudesu

dmcewen said:

@jhpnw...^^THIS!!! Imo having two types of roots is better though, just my preference. Strong and weak grasping roots stack.

raise your crit. doing crit dmage gives a chance for weak roots. dots proc it. but yeah up to you

wdj40

dmcewen said:

@jhpnw...^^THIS!!! Imo having two types of roots is better though, just my preference. Strong and weak grasping roots stack.

I agree... I found the best combination for me is Longstriders > Constricting > Hindering. That way Longstrider bumps nearly every attack in my rotations. Followed instantly by Constricting gives a huge bump in damage + root ticks.

Then Constricting is followed by Hindering which does not stop the Thorned Roots from Consticting. Hindering Shot is also refilled pretty quickly if you connect with a Gushing Wound (I very rarely have 0 shots left in my rotations).

For Melee Hindering Strike is my main damage dealer with all the stacks/buffs applied... When it applies Thorned Roots it actually seems to work off the Main Hand and not the Off-Hand which is weird.

I prefer 1 Strong and 1 Weak Root for the Ranged... then 1 Strong Root for the Melee. All buffed by Longstriders if possible etc. I have already posted a number of videos of this rotation soloing all the SH 15 man HE's etc. I`m not at the level of some of you guys though who can solo things like CN (I can solo the last 50% of Orcus HP but have not been able to get through the whole dungeon without dying).

Then I switch to survivability mode for Orcus... I have made a new video yesterday on the X1 for the survivability mode. We finished off Orcus with 2 HR and a GF as the others died http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/19517216

Survivability mode switches to Fox's > Binding > Hindering. Oak Skin is buffed from the 2 Magistrates Mount bonuses + High Power, HP and Crit. Even in Survivability I have 1 Strong and 1 Weak Root on Ranged and 1 Strong Root on Melee.

Personally I think Archery and Combat need buffs to meet the level of the Trapper. The whole class needs buffing with regards to PvP... I don't even bother with it, it is like I am hitting enemies with a feather and not an arrow.

jhpnw

Please don't get me wrong Im not asking for help or complaining about HR. I am stating facts is all. The fact is our best vs other best we under preform. We are facing a nerf or other changes and what we put on our forum can effect the out come of them. At this time we need to deal in facts about performance and broken things .Just wait you will see more nerf HR or Trapper is so over powerful thread very soon. They wont be from HRs but other classes looking to improve there PVP against us or making sure we don't get the PVP buff so desperately we need . As well as archery and Combat really need to brought up to par, with other DPS classes as well.


Now for above . I am aware small changes would increase my PVE dps probably as much as 8%. BUt I PVP a lot as well. Thanks for the tips these all prove every one has adapted to a play style that is what works for them and from reading there are several difference encounter mixes that are working. How ever with high crit build and you are not using cordon you are loosing big dps in 1st 5 seconds of dragon flight 3 cordons do 1.6 mil dps nothing else we have does this .

As far as my companions right now they give me extra 25% crit severity and 17% damage the only one that does not is shadow demon but my deflect is over 50% and when I deflect I take no damage period due to shadow demon ability, so better than 1/2 of all incoming damage is negated. this allows me to max every thing else in to dps.

I am a full trapper you can get 189% crit ser with right companions and trans dread. My build and enchants are geared PVP and PVE so I tend to load a little more power over crit but I hit 100% crit rating so I stopped once there and went more power. I prefer seekers to aspect of pack in Dragon Flight it gives me 19% more dps and I can float around back of dragon easily and keep the combat advance as well with out having to be near other players for a constant 8% buff of pack don't underestimate rapid strike its 3 rd shot is a great increase of DPS and weak roots become strong roots with trapper feat.