Reasons Domination is flawed and players have unrealistic expectations

sneak

There are some serious issues with Domination that I think many people are already aware of. Some of these issues are game related and some are community related. The first thing is it's completely unfairly matched; the games are pretty much always one sided. People constantly go in with full premade groups (or queue and happen to get on the same team?) and steamroll the opposing team because the matchmaking isn't fair and gear/boons aren't equalized. There's absolutely nothing wrong with people going in with premades, I'm not one of those people who whines about that nonsense. My issue is that Domination is (atleast officially, according to Arc) the way to get your PvP gear because it earns you Glory. Another thing is to get the PvP boons you must do things in Domination. Now the issue with this is that you have a bunch of new people who don't have gear and boons against people with maxed out (or nearly maxed out) gear and boons. There's no competition at all in this. Maybe for the queue(s) that unlock boons and earn glory there should be equalization. Remove the guild boons and do some kind of item equalization so it's a little skill based instead of entirely item based. Next, create another PvP mode like "Epic Domination" that allows anyone to come in and use whatever things they want. The rewards should definitely be higher in the Epic version.

This brings me to the next major issue which is the community. You guys need to realize that this whole "once they say 'gg' it's over" thing is flat out wrong. First of all nobody is paying for my internet connection and didn't pay for my system or anything else related to me being here and playing. I do campaigns daily and work my HAMSTER off to earn my way in this game and nobody is going to stop me from playing just because they want to give up. What this results in is a bunch of low geared people like me queueing for Domination daily and getting steamrolled by eoa/synergy/midnight left and right and once we're finally on that team of steamrollers the opposing team decides they want to just stand there and give up? It doesn't work that way. The term "GG" stands for "good game" and is meant to be used after a game as a sportsman-like term (it's also overused in online gaming in general. People just parrot this "gg" whenever they can and it's lost meaning). A true good game is an evenly matched one. "GG" isn't supposed to be a meme or a white flag. "GG" is when both teams were competitive and had a chance but one of them outplayed the other because of skill and/or teamwork. It doesn't mean "well the other team has far superior items and boons so we have 0 chance". That's the OPPOSITE of a "GG".

Once us players who don't have a group of all-stars to queue with finally get on a team with players who are kicking the enemy team's HAMSTER we're supposed to just sit there and NOT earn our boons just because the enemy team now has players that were in our situation? I don't think so, Tim.

I'm not sitting here every day doing domination and getting owned so that when I finally get on a team with players relatively better than the enemy players so that I can just give up and not get my kills/assists/etc.. for the boon unlocks.

It's absurd that players invent rules like this and people just blindly follow it in fear of being "thought of as bad people". Ruining the definition of a GG and altering the already very low amount of fairness in Domination is what makes you a bad person, not continuing to get what you came for.

Because at the end of the day, face it, everyone is playing because they choose to play the game and it's what they enjoy. If they choose to want to play the game the way it was intended (ie: fighting the enemy team in Domination) there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. People are just taking seats and ignoring that the problem is at a higher level than this; which is that the matchmaking is terrible. Please please please stop this whole "gg" garbage and play the game the normal way. Fairness goes both ways. We can't all be on the stronger team every time so we should be grateful that we got a team that can own the other one whenever it happens and take advantage of it so we can complete what we came for.

kalina311

GG used to mean dont come dont from down camp or you will keep getting killed
It used to be you were guaranteed 1 death per match regardless of GG or whatever you come down you die then dont come down.... not anymore

as someone with one the least deaths on the leader board I really hate this HAMSTER ...my whole team gives up then im forced to gg give up

some time to be fair tho people need thier minimum glory or to cap or something for objectives

sneak

kalina311 said:

GG used to mean dont come dont from down camp or you will keep getting killed
It used to be you were guaranteed 1 death per match regardless of GG or whatever you come down you die then dont come down.... not anymore

as someone with one the least deaths on the leader board I really hate this **** ...my whole team gives up then im forced to gg give up

some time to be fair tho people need thier minimum glory or to cap or something for objectives

By definition, playing the game the way the publisher/developer intended for it to be played is fair. Giving people things for free is actually unfair. Too many people out there with this incorrect view of "if other people have things I don't have because I didn't earn them it's unfair".

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drkbodhi

I have been on both ends of the GG BS...
I ran up to their Home node and the player on it backed off immediately and called GG. I have been in matches where my teammates have done exactly the same thing... or close. As soon as someone challenges them they call GG. Here is the biggest issue... I have entered at least 5 matches in the last 5 days where I was the "Add-on Player"... not even having enough time to do anything. I have been on teams that were winning and someone from the opposition leaves. They are replaced by a dominant player... known by their name and skill... then the rest of my team call GG when we are winning by 600 points. I have even been in matches where we are facing a premade from, name the guild, and I have low iL teammates. Our opposition doesn't spawn farm us but they may as well do it.
There are tons wrong with PvP in this "GAME"... TONS.

sneak

macjae said:

Playing out a hilariously one-sided game isn't fun for anyone involved. Being killed over and over with no chance of winning? Not fun. Easily killing a helpless victim over and over? Not fun (though some not-competitive minded players take pleasure in it, that's mainly a PvE-type mindset). In both cases, PvP is different from PvE in that the opponents are real, human beings, not totally computer-generated pixels for your own ego gratification.

They may be real people but when they queue for that dungeon they shouldn't have expectations of the enemy "going easy on them". The whole purpose of going there varies from person to person but I would think it's very common they are going for the same reason I am which is to gain experience in class recognition, familiarity with my character and to unlock boons.

macjae said:

In terms of what you're complaining about, it seems like you need to think about addressing the fundamental problems of the game, rather than acting like a prick on those occasions where you get to participate in stomping the other team. The reason you're not getting those kills/assists and whatever else you need is because PvP is fundamentally broken in terms of matchmaking and gear discrepancy between players, which produces those uneven matches.

I agree the problem is at a higher level than the players but my point (which I originally stated) was that due to this poor decision making by the company the players are doing things that also don't make any sense. Nobody is "acting like a prick" to get what they came for. Once again, nobody else is paying for my things and if I want to play the game the way it was intended I'll do so. Those people are "acting like pricks" by trying to not allow me to earn my boons and practice my character or otherwise enjoy PvP.

macjae said:

As for calling "gg", that's a thing put there by the community in lieu of an actual surrender button. If the game had that option, for a team to vote to surrender (available after reaching a certain score difference) and then immediately count down, it would waste considerably less player time. Then there's not being slaughtered, and there's being free to cap for the minimum reward. Some players are opposed to the latter either because they think it wastes their time or some ego-driven thing ("hah, we won 1,000-0"), which is actually self-defeating on two levels, because it either means those players will queue again immediately to try and get their glory and stuff, or ultimately stop playing PvP altogether, which shrinks the overall population and results in ever-worse matches.

But the game doesn't have a surrender button so people incorrectly using "gg" can deal with me continuing to attack them for as long as I need my boons. If they don't want to be attacked or die they shouldn't be playing as this is part of the experience. People need to learn that they can't just have everything for free and you have to suffer to gain. Also wins and losses don't really mean anything considering it's a 5v5 game not 1v1 and you're going in with random people you don't know (with usually 0 voice communication or communication at all) often against full groups of 5. Either way the bottom line is this is a 5v5 thing we're talking about so these individual players are being affected in several ways each time they participate. So many factors come into the decision of the end-game results. So at this point, who really cares who wins or loses? I come for 600 points minimum and some practice with my character so I can do atleast 2 of these per day (more if I feel like putting up with it to unlock boons faster).

macjae said:

There are a lot of other ways in which the game can be seen as unfair -- some classes are blatantly stronger than others in PvP, which makes it a bad experience if you happen to have picked a weak class. Some mechanics and items they've added greatly affects the way it is played -- no one enjoys playing against Ambush Ring or drain users, especially if they do not possess the necessary counter-items. Those tools are a little more easily available than high-end gear, but they change the PvP gameplay in more fundamental ways than gear does.

Yeah, I've seen how BS the TRs are in PvP. Annoying as hell too... I've also fought against ambush ring people and yeah it's pretty annoying but again this is an issue with the game itself and I heard that players are trying to invent more "rules" they expect people to follow in which they don't use these rings.

drkbodhi said:

I have been on both ends of the GG BS...
I ran up to their Home node and the player on it backed off immediately and called GG. I have been in matches where my teammates have done exactly the same thing... or close. As soon as someone challenges them they call GG. Here is the biggest issue... I have entered at least 5 matches in the last 5 days where I was the "Add-on Player"... not even having enough time to do anything. I have been on teams that were winning and someone from the opposition leaves. They are replaced by a dominant player... known by their name and skill... then the rest of my team call GG when we are winning by 600 points. I have even been in matches where we are facing a premade from, name the guild, and I have low iL teammates. Our opposition doesn't spawn farm us but they may as well do it.
There are tons wrong with PvP in this "GAME"... TONS.

People in online games in general have lately had a problem losing but it's especially noticeable in this game where egos run wild for some reason. Alot of people I've seen in Domination are actually pretty delusional and under the impression they've "owned" you when in reality they just have better gear and items and there's not a single thing you can do about it. These people for some reason expect new players to have full gear as soon as they start or something. Let's be honest, this game is incredibly easy to play and mostly reliant on items and boons. Nobody is really "owning" you by out-skilling yhou because the extremely small amount of skill required means that doesn't happen.


Bottom line is it reminds me of the saying "you win some, you lose some" and people don't want to lose at all so they try to give up by saying "gg". Makes no sense.. what difference does it make if you PvP while you're there? You're there anyway so you might as well get some experience and put in some gameplay. Games with competition lately have a serious lack of sportsmanship and trying to prevent other players from progressing just because you don't feel like dying is poor sportsmanship. Play the damn game the way it is and if you don't like how it is, whine to whoever is in charge of that instead of ruining the experience for other players. The people who have an issue with players continuing to play the game I imagine are the same people who play shooters with the incorrect mindset that there's "a problem with spawn-killing". I'm sure people in this game whine about that too which also makes no sense.

d4rkh0rs3

@macjae

"so the free-riders should put up with being stomped a bit to make up for that."

Yes.

"or ultimately stop playing PvP altogether, which shrinks the overall population and results in ever-worse matches."

More yes.

"Playing out a hilariously one-sided game isn't fun for anyone involved. Being killed over and over with no chance of winning? Not fun. Easily killing a helpless victim over and over? Not fun (though some not-competitive minded players take pleasure in it, that's mainly a PvE-type mindset)."

Omg yeas.

"no one enjoys playing against Ambush Ring or drain users"

Well documented throughout all online Neverwinter forums.

"classes are blatantly stronger than others in PvP"

Stronger? Yes. Broken? Also yes.

"good matches are so rare anyway"

Bingo. The Finisher.

Nice post.

elrondknight

The problem is, it does not matter, in the end if we play, or sit by the campfire. When going up against a pre-made, end game, BiS team the end result is the same. No experience. No rewards. No way to ever get better. How are we supposed to "play" against a team that can hold all three nodes using 1 player against the entire other team? Do you really expect us to waste 10 - 15 mins running back & forth between re-spawn & the 1-shot circles of death? Why? So that YOU can get your boons? While we get nothing? Is this really what you expect? Is this really what you think PvP should be? And, BTW, characterizing anyone that doesn't play the game "your way" as whiners... does not help.

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deathbeez

Opinion from a PvE'er. They made it too complicated.
Other MMOs I played, I was a regular in PvP. In NWO, it's too much this and that.
Tenacity, PvP gear, wards, prones, feytouched, ambush, drains, insignas WTF. It's supposed to be fun, they made it so you need a Ti-83 teacher's addition to make your build work. Too much BS in for me to care about getting involved with.

Not to mention the fact it's the same tiny boring domination board from vanilla.

sneak

elrondknight said:

The problem is, it does not matter, in the end if we play, or sit by the campfire. When going up against a pre-made, end game, BiS team the end result is the same. No experience. No rewards. No way to ever get better. How are we supposed to "play" against a team that can hold all three nodes using 1 player against the entire other team? Do you really expect us to waste 10 - 15 mins running back & forth between re-spawn & the 1-shot circles of death? Why? So that YOU can get your boons? While we get nothing? Is this really what you expect? Is this really what you think PvP should be? And, BTW, characterizing anyone that doesn't play the game "your way" as whiners... does not help.

Your post doesn't make any sense... you either didn't mean to reply to me or have comprehension issues.

macjae said:

PvP isn't a dungeon. And people enter PvP primarily to fight other players -- the point of PvP disappears if they are unable to fight back due to silly gear differences, or if they don't want to fight.

And unlocking the PvP boons is pointless if your end purpose isn't PvP -- because those boons only work in PvP.

And not being able to fight back happens to all players at some point which is why people shouldn't be hated on for taking what small chances they've got for boon progression and using them to their advantage.

macjae said:

Players are just acting the way they are to compensate for shortcomings in the design. It's better to treat opponents fairly than be a total ***wipe and keep killing them when they can't fight back.

There's a solution to your quandary that's entirely within the spirit of what players are doing, though. After gg is called, just ask politely for 1v1 fights, and people will usually agree to that, without anyone getting mad. You get your kills or whatever, people don't get upset at you for breaking unspoken rules.

Once again I suggest you look up the definition of "fair". There's absolutely nothing wrong with killing people who can't kill you which falls back on the original point once again that it isn't the fault of the players that the PvP in the game is so broken.

I won't be asking for 1v1s in a 5v5. I will get what I came for and there's nothing wrong with this and is the expected behavior of players. And just because someone "agrees to 1v1" doesn't mean I'll get kills or assists it just means I'll have a fight. If I do kill them they likely won't want to try agian anyways. That's a pointless waste of time when I can just play the game the way it was intended to be played instead of trying to follow or adhere by player-made "rules". I'm doing nothing wrong by playing normally and shouldn't be expected to follow any trends players are creating just because they're mad.

macjae said:

If I'm on a team and the other team surrenders, and someone on my team keeps attacking them, I don't usually mind if the enemy team reciprocates by killing that player, because that is predatory behavior.

No, it isn't real life, and yes, you're supposed to be able to earn those things, but it doesn't feel like you're "earning" much by attacking players that don't fight back -- that's not PvP. Essentially, there's a double standard there: You talk about "earning" your boons, but the precise context you're complaining about here isn't you earning anything, it's just trying to eat as many scraps as possible during a free lunch provided by the enemies surrendering to (probably) someone *else* on your team.

You're not really *earning* anything that way, you're simply taking advantage of an opportunity. Like a vulture swooping in to get some carrion meat.

It is obviously a problem that there are limited opportunities for earning and advancing as you put it, but that's down to the developers to fix. Players issuing ggs and not fighting when they do is mostly about preventing the game mode from deteriorating further, which is not in the interest of the players that enjoy it.

There's no "predatory behavior". Those opinions of incorrect views are extremely inaccurate ones to hold. Just because you invent this notion that playing the game normally is "predator behavior" doesn't make it true. Since I'm following the default and expected player activity I'm the one who's right. You're trying to make up custom theories and complain about things that aren't an issue.

It's ironic that you said it "doesn't feel like earning much by attacking players that don't fight back" considering you have an issue with the way the developers setup PvP. You can't have it both ways, pick a side. You're trying to use my argument against "ggs" to fight your argument for them and ignore the fact that this is an issue with the game itself.

I never said that the only time I get kills (and work towards boon progression) is on people who can't fight back. I'm not one of those massively geared players with alot of guild boons or anything like that. I just recently started and my whole point was that because I (and many others) have to constantly go up against those types of high geared/booned players constantly it's not right to expect me (us) to just stand there and give up once we finally have a team who can beat the other.

The only people who benefit from that kind of "let's give up" behavior are people who already have the boons and gear. They have nothing to lose because they already have everything. The whole "gg means we give up" method IS what's deteriorating Domination further and if you can't see that I don't know what else to say.

At the end of the day I'm going to play however I want and if people wish to have incorrect views that don't align with the way the game was meant to be played that's their own problem. I will continue to earn what I came for rather than waste time doing nothing.

macjae said:

Yes, because some of those items fundamentally break the mechanics of PvP. They don't just give an advantage, they fundamentally change how classes interact, and are incredibly imbalanced for some classes while they don't do much for others. In other words: The community that still would like to have an experience that is close to enjoyable are desperately avoiding them, while the developers apparently don't care that they break the entire game mode with those items.

Which again falls back on the expected gameplay behavior of players. The problem is that players have no authority to impose rules on other players. How people play (as long as they are within the guidelines of the company's game) is up to them. If other people don't like that, they can deal with it or quit.

macjae said:

This phenomenon may be tied to the rise of P2W-style gaming in general, where people can basically pay money to get an ego boost. That, in turn, may be tied to wider societal trends, with increasing socioeconomic disparities and a culture of worshiping the haves over the have-nots. That's not really a subject for this thread, though.

This is another game that I disagree with people on it being "p2w". I think people are just lazy and have no experience in other games to be able to have any real perspective on things and realize that this isn't "p2w". This is common in free to play games and usually said by people who are too young to work, have no money, are lazy or a combination of those things. People want everything for free now...

I've played games that are REALLY p2w and this one just ISN'T. Yeah, there are a few things that make no sense to be selling; a few places they could improve on the very profitable free to play business model... but it's not "pay to win". For example, why do VIP members not suffer injuries? That seems really stupid me. Why not remove this and add something like automatic gold loot? Also why not sell things like costumes then make other areas of the Zen store a little cheaper or a better value? It seems that simple things like this could go a long way in player perceptions of the game's business model as well as continue to bring in good revenue to the company. Even players who are fully geared (even who only like PvP) love to buy costumes and eventually they will want to try different ones. This would also bring in more ways for people who pay to make AD. Costumes sell very well in these kinds of games and they shouldn't become too saturated because a very small percentage of players in the server actually spend money on free to play games. You have your players who spend a fortune then some people who casually spend then mostly free players.

I'm curious to see what boon progress people posting here have, what item level and how long they've played. I'm wondering how people's gear/boons and years played correlates with their views on this. Is it only the people who lose alot who have an issue with players continuing to fight after someone wants to give up? (I lose alot)

I've played 3.5 weeks and have 2475 ilvl. Haven't gotten any boons yet from Icewinddale or PvP, need 1 more from Underdark, 1 more from TOD and 2 more from Maze Engine.

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sneak

macjae said:

The game mode is called "player vs player," not "rapist vs victim." People being helpless to begin with due to a hopeless gear gap sounds like the latter rather than the former. (Which is different than killing someone that's helpless due to things that happen in the game, like being cced.)

It's expected for there to be winners and losers. You're over-dramatizing things...

macjae said:

And having a fight is what PvP is.

Irrelivant. Doesn't change anything else I said (plus this contradicts your "rapist vs victim" thing).

macjae said:

There's nothing that's mechanically stopping you from doing exactly what you want within the game, no. However, what you are complaining about is something else -- players have come up with a social contract to improve quality of life within the game a little because of problems caused by developers -- and you want to violate that social contract, and you're essentially complaining that other players don't support you in doing so.

Like I said previously, if someone on my team behaves like that against a team that's surrendered, I don't mind if they fight back. You might end up being their kill instead.

Justifying doing something because it is *possible* to do doesn't mean it's something people *should* be doing. It's also within the rules of the game to start a vote-kick for any random reason, but doing so because a player is, say, low-geared (like sub-3k or slightly higher from my perspective) is just being a griefer; wasting someone's time.

It's not up to players to decide how other players play. That's my decision and mine alone to make. I'm not violating any contracts because they don't actually exist. If a group of people wish to follow these ideas, that's on them. Things that are possible because it's the way the game was designed automatically justify themselves; no need for me to justify those things.

macjae said:

No, my stance is pretty clear. You can't talk about "earning" when what you want to do is take advantage of opportunities to prey on teams like a vulture, as opposed to fighting for your gains.

Taking an advantage doesn't disqualify someone from earning things. What you're saying is essentially like saying: "Because you completed the campaigns with money you didn't complete them".

macjae said:

No, if people couldn't do that, that would mean a lot more players would never even get basic rewards for participation, which would discourage a lot more players.

People get less rewards by following these requests from other players to stop fighting, actually. Have been over this several times but you seem to not be understanding.

macjae said:

Nobody is stopping you from doing so. You are just complaining that other people form social contracts and abide by something like a code of honor. The fact that everyone that abides by those rules will consider you scum isn't their problem, it's yours.

It's not a code of honor but more of a code of dishonor, considering it screws over everyone but maxed out players. It's a pretty stupid system that people shouldn't be following because it doesn't make sense. I don't care what they consider me, they can be wrong all the want.

macjae said:

You are still low-geared. I have three toons that are around 4k IL, BiS in most regards, and could easily be full BiS if I felt like it. What you're not seeing yet is that there's a bit of an invisible wall that will start to materialize between your current level of gearing and the maximum. Getting to your point is relatively quick and easy. And then you'll hit a point where advancement becomes slow and tedious and very time-consuming, and most easily done by greasing the squeaky wheels a bit. You aren't quite there yet. Obviously, there may be much worse games out there for this, but everyone that's played the game for a while know that there's a point where advancement stops being smooth. Some things may be easier to get now than they were in the past, but they keep introducing new items at a high pace which requires a lot of AD to keep up with.

I'm not worried about this at all, just like all the other times people have claimed the game is "difficult". It's really not, people are just lazy and not used to games that take a lot of work. Things are harder to get now than in the past but players who have insane gear like to claim that things are easier now than when they did it; a bit of an ego thing I guess. If you actually look at all the information and all the changes made in the history of the game you'll see that things have only gotten easier. People perceive things the wrong way because they don't understand how market value works and they assume that less total personal revenue automatically means everything is much more difficult.

putzboy78

sneak#6191 said:

Remove the guild boons and do some kind of item equalization so it's a little skill based instead of entirely item based.

MMOs aren't about skill, they are about latency and gear. The idea of skill in a MMO is ridiculous.

putzboy78

Also the purpose of GG is to not drag out pvp when its a lost cause and give newer players some currency so they can progress and be more competitive next time. Also it helps prevent people from leaving the instance or the more popular voting to kick people so they don't get penalized. It's a way to reward people for their time and their attempt. The other option is to stay at camp or leave but I don't think people will feed you for your boons.

Knowing that the community has established this rule and choosing not to comply with it means you have no honor. Those people are put on ignore because personally I don't want to play with them. PVP is full of people without honor which is why I consider it toxic. Remember when people could actually enter the spawn and farm people. That was fun, those people had tons of honor also. You must look within yourself to define honor but not acknowledging the GG, using ambush, using drains, using exploits is not what I define as honor and most of the community defines as honor. There are several big pvp guilds that the mature community won't even touch because or their reputations. I recommend you join with them and find like-minded people.

The biggest problem with pvp is that it does not acknowledge and adhere to the ignore list of the players. You can be the biggest d-bag in the world and it wouldn't matter if I didn't have to see you more than once.

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vinceent1

depends what you see as insta gave up? when i see i play again that invincible premade again with pug group, i insta gave up too and i am sure i dont spoil anyone fun. i am sure my group dont get a single kill and has no chance. true pve leechers are not very often there, couse there are easier ways to farm ad

running premades several times in a row? deal with consequences that there is zero serious fighting around. choice is yours

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vinceent1

xsayajinx1 said:

True PvE leechers are real and once I solo q for more than 1 match, I run into them all the time.



I do only premade to sync que or snipe other premades.

thats good, but there is still many high tiered guild premades running around. far bigger issue than pve leechers

sneak

putzboy78 said:

sneak#6191 said:

Remove the guild boons and do some kind of item equalization so it's a little skill based instead of entirely item based.

MMOs aren't about skill, they are about latency and gear. The idea of skill in a MMO is ridiculous.

Not really, it exists in other MMORPGs. Besides, what difference does your theory make in this case? It would still be nice to have it be at least somewhat skill based.

putzboy78 said:

Also the purpose of GG is to not drag out pvp when its a lost cause and give newer players some currency so they can progress and be more competitive next time. Also it helps prevent people from leaving the instance or the more popular voting to kick people so they don't get penalized. It's a way to reward people for their time and their attempt. The other option is to stay at camp or leave but I don't think people will feed you for your boons.

Knowing that the community has established this rule and choosing not to comply with it means you have no honor. Those people are put on ignore because personally I don't want to play with them. PVP is full of people without honor which is why I consider it toxic. Remember when people could actually enter the spawn and farm people. That was fun, those people had tons of honor also. You must look within yourself to define honor but not acknowledging the GG, using ambush, using drains, using exploits is not what I define as honor and most of the community defines as honor. There are several big pvp guilds that the mature community won't even touch because or their reputations. I recommend you join with them and find like-minded people.

The biggest problem with pvp is that it does not acknowledge and adhere to the ignore list of the players. You can be the biggest d-bag in the world and it wouldn't matter if I didn't have to see you more than once.

It's helping newer players receive less, as previously explained, due to the fact they are expected to stop what they're doing. All of your reasons are still invalidated from the basic fact that the game was made to allow for people to fight eachother in Domination and nobody has any obligation to follow this made-up nonsense. It doesn't reward people for their time and attempt but rather penalize them and further frustrate them since every other game they get was likely a stomp against their favor.

The community hasn't "established this rule" because a community cannot force rules upon other players in the game. There's no such "rule". Some players may wish to follow this method but it certainly isn't a rule. You have no honor by thinking that it's okay to disallow other players from earning what they came to earn just because you say so. No, I don't remember when people could enter the spawn (read the thread). Ambush rings (while annoying and I agree should be changed/removed) are currently part of the game as well as drains. Tough. Yeah, it's lame and all.. but tough.

You seem to be implying that putting people on your ignore list prevents you from being placed in a PvE queue with them (but not PvP queues). It makes sense for players to not be able to just ignore anyone they don't want to be in a PvP match with. I'm not sure if this is your first online game or if PvP in this is the first "competitive" play you've ever been in but it comes off that way as you lack basic understanding of what could be easily abused.

Instead of whining about things that don't matter, why not bring up how Nikostratos/EoA/Synergy have a bunch of childish trolls who constantly vote kick anyone who doesn't meet their elitist wishes or has a problem with them (while being teammates obv.) trolling you to prevent you from getting any credit? Seems like every single day I run into someone from one of these guilds who either have a big mouth member with a big ego or someone vote-kicking you for a stupid reason at the end of the match or mid-way through after you've already obtained several points.

xsayajinx1 said:

Honestly, I have to partially agree with the OP. The community of neverwinter inflationarily use the word "gg" in my opinion and it's mostly the PvE AD leecher who insta give up just to get their 600 points and 3k ADs.



They don't care about their team mates or other players. In fact, they mostly kill the fun for 9 other player - (which is fine for them) - but if you don't let them cap they're going to be mad and insult you.



They don't play by my standards...why should I follow theirs?



And "gg" means by my definition "good game" which I will call if the match ended with both teams having 800+ points

Yes, exactly. It's pretty funny how people in the game (and this thread) are blatantly ignoring the fact that by following this "gg means you aren't allowed to attack me" BS is only preventing players from taking advantage of the rare opportunity they've finally found which allows them to make progress.

vinceent1

we as a pvp community completely doomed ourselves. bis players still prefers going in in full premades and then wait 8 minutes after enemy spawn till match ended. aliance module change nothing, still ridiculously overpowered closed groups rolling over everything and the other aliance players still get problem get their daily conqueror shards ....

hope cryptic finally realize we need solo que option or at least max duo

hadestemplar

sneak#6191 said:

.

I just love when u guys separate players in to premades(virgins) and advanced ones, made ones(-_-) ..
However these virgins ones can be more better at pvp than others. I so how so called premades beat the HAMSTER from so called advanced pvp players.

However the main problem is not mismatching but pvp mechanics in general. Game become closer to wild wester style. First one shoot = win. Too many buffs either boons, insignias, mounts, Not mention very huge boost from SH boons.. One of best examples, player lv 7 but due SH boons already had over 10k power. so DC took down enemy team solo.

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playasinnombre

xsayajinx1 said:

Honestly, I have to partially agree with the OP. The community of neverwinter inflationarily use the word "gg" in my opinion and it's mostly the PvE AD leecher who insta give up just to get their 600 points and 3k ADs.



They don't care about their team mates or other players. In fact, they mostly kill the fun for 9 other player - (which is fine for them) - but if you don't let them cap they're going to be mad and insult you.



They don't play by my standards...why should I follow theirs?



And "gg" means by my definition "good game" which I will call if the match ended with both teams having 800+ points

If those are the standards, I haven't had a "good game" since lvl 41. That's when I gave up daily PvP attempts, after 6 weeks without earning any rewards. Not without a win, but because we were unable to accumulate the 600 points necessary to earn ANY rewards.

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reposterz

I experiment with PVP from time to time with my level 70 Devoted Cleric Account and level 70 Scourge Warlock. I lose more than I win since the start I tried the game, but when I win most of the times it is quite epic a match up.

Here is what I hope changes for PVP:

1. With the new class changes, I hope GWF and CW do not dominate the PVP arenas, PVP domination should be about team work and some Powers strategy not just a straight forward bash fest for GWF and CW classes...

2. Item levels match up. Ideally both teams should have a balanced match up in terms of Item level for everyone one for one. Just try to balance the teams and prevent excessive domination by one or two high Item level guys.

3. Glory rewards should be more. The glory given for having a low score is pitiful. Sometimes I get low score and the Glory given is just not worth it despite my best effort.

4. Help to balance win-loss statistic. If you lose more than you win, it would be ideal to be given some rebalancing in terms of the next PVP team match up to make a balance win/loss statistic. Sometimes I keep getting matched up with people I ignore, it is frustrating to try and get a balanced match up from Public queues. Hopefully some rethinking about team match up can be done by the Devs in next module or major patch.

Hope we can all get a better PVP experience and balance things out, I agree PVP needs some careful readjustment, but how exactly is still up to devs, so hopefully the devs listen to us to thrash things out.

narjima

I agree that a lot of people surrender too quickly in this game. I also agree that the term "GG" isn't really appropriate to communicate surrender, but that's just how it developed and I don't think anyone is going to change this now.

Wheather you are going to accept someones surrender or not however is a matter of respect. If you don't accept a surrender you show that you have no respect for your opponents. Of course, you aren't going to get banned for that, just don't expect to be treated respectfully yourself in return.

I am more or less in the same situation as you, I started to PVP not too long ago, but due to help from friends I managed to get good enchantments and can usually contribute in matches. But I am miles away from getting the PVP boons or even completing the campaign. But seriously, that's not something you need to sweat over, their effect isn't all that great. For low geared players the glory rewards are far more important than a few kills for the pvp campaign, so I don't see how a surrender gives them worse rewards. On the contrary, the rewards increase drastically if they are allowed to gain 400 points. And if you don't let them cap but keep on killing them over and over you are not only preventing them from advancing but are also actively driving people away from PVP.

vinceent1

its still problem with caping, if you are at pug group you can control them, some of them can be unkillable and continue to fight till the end and you just trying cap something but are constantly killed before you can cap, no matter how hard you spam gg

so sometimes its better to gave up earlier and avoid later drama

demonmonger

There is also a difference between broken abilities and just not knowing how to play your character well. Some people cry that skulls areally broken just because they died to the ability.

Developers have so many voices to sift through in the pvp area that it just becomes frustrating and a headache.

Some people keep posting the same threads about nerf this skill or nerf this entire class.

The whole gg stop playing mentality is bad for new players agan because it doesn't allow them to test abilities and counter abilities in combat. The whole lmfao bis team vs non bis team with quitters also does not allow people to test synergistic abilities in combat.

Because of this some new players have stunted growth. You cannot expect these players to move ahead or even have a chance in hell to grow their strongholds.

We need a system that checks your max gear score regardless of items you are wearing, and groups you with other players that have a gear score near yours.

Even this system won't be flawless because there are many people out there with max gear score that have builds that won't be optimal for pvp.

A good start would be to make stronghold wards and boons only apply in the stronghold pvp map. Howerver, those without will still suffer in stronghold maps, but at least there will be some aspect of pvp that all players can try to enjoy.

icyphish

maybe create seperate ilvl,queues that grants different tokens as a reward and the 3.5k bracket get really nice fashion outfit or gears with tokens? that way ppl will queue with their best gears for different brackets