Alliance bonus mixed up?

anolia123

Hi,

as it currently stands on preview, the alpha guild will get 0,9% cost reduction on structures build and 0,22% more experience. The beta guild is leveled at 0,45% for both and the gamma guild will get 0,22% discount on buildings and 0,9% more experience.

That's what it is like currently on preview.



My question, wouldn't it make much more sense the other way around?
Alpha guild being the dominant / largest guild, who do not need a benefit on building structures, and gamma being the little ones who need all the help they can get in building their stronghold.

So, shouldn't it be more like
- alpha: more XP, less discount on structures
- gamme: less XP, more discount on structures
?


Your thoughts on this?

dfnce

I will give one counter-example. My guild in terms of SH advancement is super small with very stubborn people advancing it. It is very likely we end up with similar guilds which are not advanced to anything beyond 8. Despite lack of different resources, i can help Helm guild to advance if it will benefit members of my guild. So Helm guild may need bonus just like any other one.

Next thing would be nice, when each time we donate to other guild (above or below us), we have return some bonus reward currency which we could exchange for something we need most, like ToD/Influence vouchers. For example, if give 1000 worth of Fey to other guild, i want to receive 500 points of Alliance Marks, which we could exchange for some chest currencies for my local guild chest only.

urabask

Wish they could replace XP with something else tbh. We're going to get our powerpoints from Sharandar so no one cares about XP anymore.

kreatyve

urabask said:

Wish they could replace XP with something else tbh. We're going to get our powerpoints from Sharandar so no one cares about XP anymore.

I like getting 30k rAD sometimes, even if I don't get a power point.

urabask

kreatyve said:

urabask said:

Wish they could replace XP with something else tbh. We're going to get our powerpoints from Sharandar so no one cares about XP anymore.

I like getting 30k rAD sometimes, even if I don't get a power point.

IKR that 30k that you get once out of twenty overflows really matters.

wildfirede

yea it feels like insering a whooping r1 azure in your helm yaaay

reg1981

kreatyve said:

I like getting 30k rAD sometimes, even if I don't get a power point.

I would rather the system work both ways. I also enjoy the overflow rewards. Mind you I have been lucky when it comes to the rewards earned. It's the one time RNG seems to favor me!

kvet

At higher levels, the cost reduction is MUCH more beneficial than it is for lower levels. Some generic math:

Say, you need 25K of something to and you have a 1% reduction. This would be a lower level guilds. That works out to a reduction of 250 points.

Now, say you need 250K of that thing. That same 1% reduction will mean 2500 reduction in cost. Neither is very bit, but nevertheless is an order of magnitude more effective for the higher level guild than it is for the lower level guild.

Now, imagine the Alliance level is higher and reduction is 10%. 25K cost reduction vs. 2.5K -- basically the entire amount the lower level guild needs is the amount the higher level guild doesn't need to gather at all. As you can see - the reduction for higher level guilds is MUCH more effective than for lower level ones.

But, yes, I agree - XP isn't all that useful. Instead, I would suggest that the bonus applies to XP, Glory and Gold at the same time - as if you slotted normal utility enchants (sans movement bonuses).

putzboy78

kvet said:

At higher levels, the cost reduction is MUCH more beneficial than it is for lower levels. Some generic math:

Say, you need 25K of something to and you have a 1% reduction. This would be a lower level guilds. That works out to a reduction of 250 points.

Now, say you need 250K of that thing. That same 1% reduction will mean 2500 reduction in cost. Neither is very bit, but nevertheless is an order of magnitude more effective for the higher level guild than it is for the lower level guild.

Now, imagine the Alliance level is higher and reduction is 10%. 25K cost reduction vs. 2.5K -- basically the entire amount the lower level guild needs is the amount the higher level guild doesn't need to gather at all. As you can see - the reduction for higher level guilds is MUCH more effective than for lower level ones.

But, yes, I agree - XP isn't all that useful. Instead, I would suggest that the bonus applies to XP, Glory and Gold at the same time - as if you slotted normal utility enchants (sans movement bonuses).

Ummm no. 1% is 1%. Your point is that yes the number of resources saved from a single upgrade may be greater for a higher level guild. However, if the guilds are collecting resources at the same rate (gauntlet is obviously younger in that scenario). then the benefit is the same.

Where the logic really falls apart is when you consider there are 9 gauntlet guilds to every 1 helm guild. So unless helm is getting 16times the benefit from the guantlets the change hurts the alliance more in the long run. Then you also have to deal with the fact that Helm is not encouraged to donate to the gauntlets because the relative reward is minor.

STO Armadas reward the lowest guild the most in construction costs for a reason. Why the dev's would change that is beyond comprehension.

cloudius1978

Fully agree that XP bonus is pretty useless as a reward and should be changed or add in other perks alongside the XP bonus.

My 1st reaction to the way SH discounts are designed was it does not make sense. Common sense tells us that Gauntlets should receive higher % discount as they're playing "catch up". The greater % Helms enjoy will be useless once they're maxed and that'll happen sooner rather than later.

Kvet's point is only true in the short term. However in the long run, when Helms are maxed and Gauntlets progressed to a level similar to where the Helms are at today, how sure are we that the Gauntlets will receive comparable % discount as the Helms will today. Here's a little example with hypothetical numbers to better illustrate my point.

Today (Overall Alliance Level = 100)
Helm GH18 (10% discount), Gauntlet GH10 (3% discount)

Future (Overall Alliance Level = 200)
Helm GH20 (Maxed), Gauntlet GH15-18 (discount should be close to or equal to Helm's 10% they're enjoying today)

anolia123

The idea with alliance is that you help each other and to a degree that the smaller guilds can catch up with their stronghold level. The only reference we have is STO Armada and as putzboy78 said, it is the logical choice.
If you want to to advance you stronghold, place yourself at the gauntlet spot and you have it.

But being the leading guild (helm) and getting biggest building bonus does not make sense.

And I like the idea of XP, Glory and Gold for the other bonus.
It is true, with the Sharandar change the Powerpoints will be at the max shortly.