My funny righteous DC

rapo973 · May 2016

As you may know, I used to be a proud virtuous cleric because I love playing pure support classes, healers in particular.
I've specialized my DC around some features like power buff, AP gain and strong healing/mitigation.
After the nerf, GoH is now path indipendent: the amount of AP you gain is the same regardless you're a virtuous or something else.
Two VERY lucky events gave me the opportunity to refine a dread enchntment to pure and to get the owlbear cub from a lockbox.
The funny thing is that I've respecced AC righteous:
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=23ci:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13l3305:150z000:1000000:150uz51&h=0&p=anc
without changing anything but the dread enchantment and the owlbear cub.
The overall effect is amazing: I haven't lost anything of my previous features, I've gained a lot of dps instead.
Even if my dc cannot be compared against a pure righteous for dps, I'm quite happy because I've now a well balanced DC:
- good (but not insane) dps thank to the dread enchantment and the owlbear cub. Soloing is now easy and smooth. Paradoxically having low crit (37%), high recovery and high power makes the owlbear cub very effective and when I crit the dread enchantment turns on.
- powerful mitigation thank to my ~100% ap gain (AA).
- powerful heals anyway thank to the high power. Usually DG and AS are enough to heal.
- powerful buff thanks to the righteous build.

I will publish some screenshots later.

putzboy78 · May 2016

Welcome to the world of Righteous DC where daily's don't suck.... as much

sax1993 · May 2016

Owlbear is pretty meh chains or daunting don't proc it which are the only useful DPS skills you'd use. But yeah I run full Righteous its a fun class and if I want to heal a dungeon it's manageable

rapo973 · May 2016

sax1993 said:
Owlbear is pretty meh chains or daunting don't proc it which are the only useful DPS skills you'd use. But yeah I run full Righteous its a fun class and if I want to heal a dungeon it's manageable

I don't use daunting light. My hit/miss ratio with it so low (long casting time, too small area, etc) that I prefer BtS definitely.
Here a ~25 sec ACT with dread/owlbear casting DG and BtS only, companion off (no bonding).

putzboy78 · May 2016

Your effectiveness seems a bit low, are you short on armor pen? You should be closer to 160%

rapo973 · May 2016

putzboy78 said:
Your effectiveness seems a bit low, are you short on armor pen? You should be closer to 160%

I'm short on crit/crit severity and I'm not planning to increase them: dps is not on my radar at the moment.
Here my current stats: please consider that they are from the previous virtuous build.
Gear set

Offensive stats

Defensive stats

Companions

Rationale
It's based on one question only.
I've spent a lot of time building my virtuous cleric around some features. After the GoH nerf, is there a better way to take advantage of all I have? Moving to righteous was the answer.
- Dread + Owlbear cub + righteous feats: more damages, more buff. Here I'm not in the max dps arena, but the 3 things improved my dps a lot. I come from a 0 dps build, this was my main weak point: the improvement is very high.
- high ap gain + gift of haste: being virtuous or righteous is irrelevant from this point of view. Whatever I was able to do as a virtuous, I can do the same as a rigtheous with some points on GoH.
- power buff: same as the previous point.
- heals: my power is high enough that I can heal with DG only most of the times. Rarely I need more (in that case I slot astral seal)

This is a funny and maybe not optimized build: I've explained the reasons why it is as it is.
The message is the following: if you have a high IL level virtuous cleric built on power and recovery, moving to righteous will improve your life without missing anything of what you already have, even if you don't have an owlbear cub or a dread enchantment (rigtheous feats are a big boost anyway).
Here I was lucky enough to find the owlbear cub: it leverages my low crit and high power so I don't have to reinvest to improve my dps from scratch. That's why I don't slot daunting light, but I prefer break the spirit (I would prefer BtS anyway).
And when I crit, I enjoy my pure dread enchantment.

Here some more complex ACT tests (~ 1 minute) on dummies concerning the owlbear cub.
It's well known that the owlbear cub doesn't work with CL: here a test with DG - 3xDivinity CL - BtS

Here the same with SB: DG - 3x Divinity SB - BtS

If it's true that my effectiveness is low, the owlbear cub has a "NaN" on it but it can generate a good dps.
Another way to consider it, is the following:
In the DG-SB-BtS case, the infantile compensation damage could be split as a raw average:
- 1/5 coming from DG = 600 k
- 3/5 coming from Divinity SB = 1800 K (the owlbear cub procs with it - tested)
- 1/5 coming from BtS = 600 k
If you add this damage to each power, the effectiveness of the 3 powers increases a lot.

Now the min/max problem. What is the best crit chance to maximize the damage output from the owlbear cub + dread enchantment? High crit chance makes the owlbear irrelevant. Low crit chance makes the dread irrelevant...
There's also a second variable: the amount of power.
This is an important point to be solved for me before increasing my crit chance.

bitt3rnightmar3 · May 2016

That was the exact build I was planning to use if I went Righteous. xD Good to see it's working well for you.

mamalion1234 · May 2016

well done some poeple showed what is aa + weapon of light and bondings etc to tiamat run time came for fix ( happens after videos ) THATS why i am playing divine oracle i dont want get

on aa possible nerf.

rapo973 · May 2016

Nerfing AA would be a mistake. Fixing the multiple WoL interaction would be reasonable imo, but not a priority if compared with other issues this game has.
Infact the DC tiamat run is an extreme case: usually it never happens and afaik no other runs have been done.
Power buff is needed with pugs in particular or when you want to help some low il guildies.
I use to run edemo with at least another cleric: their interaction is always as expected and well balanced compared to the the difficulty of the task.
But you're right to some extent: my current setup may be nerfed and be less dps effective. That's another reason to avoid further investments on it (both the dread and the owlbear are very expensive, so my results are not for free).

crizpynutz · May 2016

rapo, do you hit crits enough to make Repurpose Soul worth it? I was thinking with a low crit build, maybe adding points to Cleanse and/or Healing Action would be better?

rapo973 · May 2016

Honestly, the heroic feats are not very interesting.
When I have Greater Fortune, Toughness, Weapon Mastery and Bountiful Fortune, I'm fine. I always suggest to max those 4 as a minimum, leaving to personal preferences the selection of the others.
That's why I don't rely on Repurpose Soul, but when my b.runstones and the Baphomet boon proc my crit chance goes up to ~40% which is a decent value.
Today I can heal up to 60k with DG only: this value is high enough for every PvE contents. When needed 2/3 astral seals and I'm done.

crizpynutz · May 2016

Nice! That works. I've been trying to figure out a good way to do AC Righteous. The only difference is that I have high crit. I want Fire of the Gods, so I'm struggling to determine what I can sacrifice to get GoH. I'm thinking about dumping Ancient Warding for it.

fizbad · May 2016

Templar's Domain

crizpynutz said:
Nice! That works. I've been trying to figure out a good way to do AC Righteous. The only difference is that I have high crit. I want Fire of the Gods, so I'm struggling to determine what I can sacrifice to get GoH. I'm thinking about dumping Ancient Warding for it.

Move 1 point from Condemning Gaze to Fire of the Gods. This will not be a DPS build either way, but you need every bit of DoT you can proc, since you give up BotS by going AC.

schietindebux · May 2016

I run the same build 15 points virtuos to get GoH
One point in fire of the gods, BC i read it procs buffs
4/5 condemning Gaze, 5/5 bear your sins
Lol just read this post above mine...
But i am pretty sure it's hard to beat Hollowed ground+ ITF with AA
So maybe DO buffer is more effective in the Ende?

crizpynutz · May 2016

It's probably true that the DO is a likely better choice, but I do like the AA + BoB options...just looking at different ways to build it. Thanks.

treesclimber · May 2016

About the coments on AA, AA is HAMSTER, honestly, im running my build but as AC to test performance, and AA has probably 20' of range so backplayers like HR or ranged spec CW's cant get a scratch of it, drops off in crowdy places in a matter of seconds, doesn't buff itf. The only purpose i see for it is on the pentagon of elol, but i cant do everything, learn to dodge the damn roof spikes xD (if you lag a lot usuallly, sorry). So.....HG ftw.

bitt3rnightmar3 · May 2016

I agree hallowed ground is the better 'go to' daily. I run AA in case of falling rocks or Edemo with the purple beams or-- when I'm running Etos without a tank and just my Yeti

It's also very handy to use if you have to pick up the tank in front of orcus. I just cast my daily and bam- orcus doesn't do anything to me while I try to revive the tank if something unfortunate happens.

I like using it with conjunction with Annointed Action. Just makes sense to me since I'm feated into it anyway.

tebancisneros · May 2016

rapo973 said:

Companions

Are you sure Sprite, Flame Sprite and Ice Sprite effect stack?
have you tested it?

rapo973 · May 2016

tebancisneros said:

rapo973 said:

Companions

Are you sure Sprite, Flame Sprite and Ice Sprite effect stack?
have you tested it?

I've them from the beginning. Guess it

mamalion1234 · May 2016

bitt3rnightmar3 said:
I agree hallowed ground is the better 'go to' daily. I run AA in case of falling rocks or Edemo with the purple beams or-- when I'm running Etos without a tank and just my Yeti

It's also very handy to use if you have to pick up the tank in front of orcus. I just cast my daily and bam- orcus doesn't do anything to me while I try to revive the tank if something unfortunate happens.

I like using it with conjunction with Annointed Action. Just makes sense to me since I'm feated into it anyway.

on divine oracle is about a combo to make the same ress on gf if fall but it need to be lucky and have the cooldowns;p . empower shield-spirit on boss- hg- divine glow and ress tank;p. i can get 1 hit full buffed mitigation-absorb and now i am thinking about it and prophetic action can be good for this hard fight.

rapo973 · June 2016

After the recent change of the bonding runestones, a power buff cleric with a companion is able to stack a huge amount of power. Currently when my companion attacks with AA+BF on, I'm at 124k power at 3.96k , up to 130k+ when other source of power are in (ex. the insigna bonus).
There were intense discussions about this topic where the DC/GF interaction was discussed as well.

Imo the first step to fix this should be:
- bonding runestones should have the cooldown back. They are the main reasons of this insane power.
- WoL should work taking into account the base power and not the current power.

But it should be tested. If not enough, then I would consider to stop buffing the companion. The problem is that there is no reference to fix a value that makes sense. If 100k buff is too high, is 50k ok? Why not 30k or 5K (also in view of the incoming T3 dungeon)? In the 20K buff range an augment do the same but given the cost of the bonding runestones, they should perform much better than an augment otherwise the investment is not profitable.
Whatever opionion I, you, we have, it's not enough: this is a design problem that should be solved by real designers reviewing all the interactions and bugs (see the DC bug list in the Temple forum) of the game and not limited to the DCs only.

Anyhow the solution is not easy reading the numbers I have. If you fix this behavior using a BiS clerics as a reference, the low IL cleric would be penalized a lot and, generally speaking, the value of the bonding runestones isn't worth the cost , so a trade-off must be found at the cost of having some reasonable power peaks occasionally.
But I cannot tell what "reasonable" means.

illhora · June 2016

Adding 3+ and 3,5+ ILVL dongeons should be the solution...

For all end gaming players new contents has to be added to the game. Don't need to nerf the class

and for info it possible to reach almost 200k Pwr without any external buff - and running dongeons with 2 DC's with Wol, BF,BOF, AA and PET (no augment) and power flies up to 350k.
i hope for a content for that kind of build and definitely not a nerf

rapo973 · June 2016

illhora said:
Adding 3+ and 3,5+ ILVL dongeons should be the solution...

For all end gaming players new contents has to be added to the game. Don't need to nerf the class

and for info it possible to reach almost 200k Pwr without any external buff - and running dongeons with 2 DC's with Wol, BF,BOF, AA and PET (no augment) and power flies up to 350k.
i hope for a content for that kind of build and definitely not a nerf

I'm with you: I don't want a nerf too. In another discussion I've suggested what you're saying.
On the other hand we already saw in the past how such mechanics are managed. I have a little piece of hope that no nerf will happen, but I'm not very optimistic.

putzboy78 · June 2016

I doubt it, I mean there is a definite broken mechanic with the new bonding stone algorithms. It sucks that everything that's done to dcs seems to be a nerf and never a fix. I'm sure its because we make up such a small % of the population but still we deserve some love.

solbergx · June 2016

illhora said:
Adding 3+ and 3,5+ ILVL dongeons should be the solution...

For all end gaming players new contents has to be added to the game. Don't need to nerf the class

and for info it possible to reach almost 200k Pwr without any external buff - and running dongeons with 2 DC's with Wol, BF,BOF, AA and PET (no augment) and power flies up to 350k.
i hope for a content for that kind of build and definitely not a nerf

I agree with you!!
Every dungeon and every skirmish should have harder level versions available with better drop rates!!

rapo973 · June 2016

putzboy78 said:
I doubt it, I mean there is a definite broken mechanic with the new bonding stone algorithms. It sucks that everything that's done to dcs seems to be a nerf and never a fix. I'm sure its because we make up such a small % of the population but still we deserve some love.

This is a controversial point imo and it looks like the chicken-egg problem.
The current DC mechanic was reviewed more than one year ago taking into account the status of the game at that time.
Step by step they have introduced new features and mechanics without any impact analysis.
Are the bonding runestones broken due to the DC mechanic or is it true the opposite? The two things looks linked today, but they were not designed togheter and without considering all the consequences.
Many DCs here reported many times in the past about the behavior of the bonding runestones and it's funny how the community reacts now that the power peak is always on.
I read many comments where the DC is considered as the problem: imo the bad design process is the real problem.
I'm quite sure that many DCs here are not as suprised as the community is in these days.
And now I expect the umpteenth fix/nerf (call as you like) in emergency mode: fixing a feature will break/impoverish something else.

putzboy78 · June 2016

I think the problem is in the bonding. It came last which as usual means it wasn't tested.

crizpynutz · June 2016

putzboy78 said:
I think the problem is in the bonding. It came last which as usual means it wasn't tested.

Either that or the bonding stone change brought an awareness to the issue. For a long time the DO DC was the popular choice whether Faithful or Righteous. I remember when I was first looking to go Righteous I wanted to stay AC and was told, no way, DO ftw, AC sucks and AA is HAMSTER. Now look. Thing is, well before the bonding change AC's were buffing massive power boosts but the AC DC was the less popular of the paths and rarely were you putting more than one in any party. I don't disregard the impact of the bonding changes, just offering a point of view that there may be more to it, the underlying issue, has always been there IMO. What I do see in the new bonding mechanic is the ability to get ALL of the power buff immediately and maintain it. With the old stacking method, you could actually hit higher buffs, but not nearly as consistently or with as much uptime.

putzboy78 · June 2016

The thing is power is actually a low ROI stat. Unless its stacking through the moon, like in the situations people are complaining about (people with 200+ k power), it's not going to make a huge difference in you fight. Also account for the fact that some dpsrs (ranged dps) have trouble staying in range to get the benefit of the power. It definitely performs better/more reliably with melee.

My funny righteous DC

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