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  • playasinnombreplayasinnombre Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    urlord283 said:

    GF are inching toward being competitive in PVP...

    TR with Smoke bomb can kill you before you stumble out of the area.

    All classes have some "overpowered" quirk... according to the other classes

    Do folks feel bad cause GF are finely becoming a PVP competitor?

    The measuring stick of if you are a PvP monster used to be if you could take out a "tank"... so yeah. ppl feel bad that now they are actually gonna have to work to beat a "defensive" class 0.o

  • deathbeezdeathbeez Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 789 Arc User
    rustlord said:


    Several months sober from all things video game, gets hard sometimes, so when I feel a bit homesick I just come read this stuff to lose interest all over again! Sobriety wins the day.

    Nice post :p
    With forums and games like this, it makes me want to buy a TV again.
  • healerthebeasthealerthebeast Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14 Arc User
    Dear Devs
    In the past 4 Mods, I think there is enough GF lured on this strategy, thrown their RP and other consumables into this class. Maybe it's time to balance it back and preparing for the next graced class?(for the sake of market constantly developing)
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User

    Back to topic.
    I started to switch from my warlock class to GF, since cryptic obviuosly wants to have a tank battle in DOM all day and kill most squishy classes more or less. DC-OP-GWF-GF yeees :)))) , Hunter, warlock, CW nooooooo :(((((
    Atm most player are a thread bc of my poor gear :) playing with 1000+tenacity . I also experience to be drained, wearing no wards, very funny.
    But all in all the class overperforms, I can press any key, and deal big damage no matter if my power is 11k and my RI low, redicules.
    Some other classes also needs to be addressed too, but the GF is N° 1 atm.

    This thread switched to a "How to play my GF" -thread, oky maybe some sarcsam involved, but all in all cryptic succeeded with their ignorance , leading to empty PVP maps, most sticking with broken builds, graatz cryptic.
    I am pretty sure they are mislead, thinking PVP is a not needed species in NWO, since there were and are a lot of player who would join and wait for imporvements.

    Bored by 1000 CN runs, the only thing that can be fun in this game, is PVP in my case.
    Sadly we have to deal with this mess, wich is a poor experience of PVP, for such a long time now.

    PvP maps are empty because the PvP guilds started in GG roflstomping pugs ruthlessly. Pugs aren't stupid if they have no chance for reward they'll go find some other reward and they did.

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    +1

    PvP maps are empty because the PvP guilds started in GG roflstomping pugs ruthlessly. Pugs aren't stupid if they have no chance for reward they'll go find some other reward and they did.

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    I think the biggest part of PVP community left or quit PVP because they were fed up of those ups and downs with their class had to suffer and because tons of broken gear and feats/power flooded this game.
    Some hop on the next broken one, a lot just retired and left in the past mods 4-5-6. A big part of them well geared and by no means 24/7 victimized in GG, only bored and disappointed.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    clonkyo1 said:

    Domination is full of pugs, the problem are not PvP guilds but guilds using unfair items like drains vs players from low ranked guilds or PvP rings, which are not open for everyone.

    They are valid items that need to be earned with a lot of hard work on a guild level. While I don't dispute they completely destroy any further ability in which PvP can be balanced and would love to see their removal but people have worked hard to use them and they should not be seen as exploits or giving an unfair advantage to those with vs those without.

    That said I hear the top PvP guilds actually ban their use, I think Cryptic gambled poorly when they chose to maximize the competitiveness of PvP, when those at the top of their game are matched against others at the top of their game you have a level playing field, unfortunately, their matchmaking sucks and always has done and until they address this it isn't going to get any better.

  • fuxion#7775 fuxion Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Two things need to change for now ...

    This will create alot more balance in pvp which is not what it used to be and the community is declining because of one class overpowering PVP namely Guardian Fighter ... as many have said can't have tank being the most offensive class ..seriously

    Guardian Fighter - Decrease in overall burst damage and hardlock bug to prone(should be disabled...cant have a class with highest bursst dps do tht ..its just stupid and nothing survives this ability GF has)
    (everyone with a brain that plays pvp agrees on this)

    Elven Battle Enchant - Shouldnt not take 80% control away from HRs and CWs (sadly these tow classes are only supprt classes now due to elven battle cc resist function) - rework required so it does affect HR stuns and CW Chillstacks as much as it does , this is alot of the class mechanics and damage taken away ..

    If these two things are given some attention, changed & applied in interim whilst the devs work on overall class balancing (rework) it might make pvp fun again as there will be more classes competing.

    Hope someone that cares reads all these posts that were posted ....

    Post edited by fuxion#7775 on
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    how would a Gf fare with classes attacking at range and less cc imunity due to a nerved elven
    and no way to close the gap and launch themselves like a missile ..its a fine balance
    a Gf essentially can be kited endlessly like that

    How ever current node cap rules force you to get up close and personal where they are at the advantage
    If it were older node cap rules they would be at less of an advantage unless they were going for kills and not the win and just ignoring capping
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    In my opinion the problem with Elven Battle is that it doesn't do enough. It has no effect on the length of GF/GWF stuns/prones when it should interrupt the standard-issue faceroll GF one-rotation kill, it does not reduce the all-day slow from Courage Breaker or the effect of Smoke Bomb, it does not reduce the size of the push from Repel.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User

    Two things need to change for now ...

    This will create alot more balance in pvp which is not what it used to be and the community is declining because of one class overpowering PVP namely Guardian Fighter ... as many have said can't have tank being the most offensive class ..seriously

    Guardian Fighter - Decrease in overall burst damage and hardlock bug to prone(should be disabled...cant have a class with highest bursst dps do tht ..its just stupid and nothing survives this ability GF has)
    (everyone with a brain that plays pvp agrees on this)

    Elven Battle Enchant - Shouldnt not take 80% control away from HRs and CWs (sadly these tow classes are only supprt classes now due to elven battle cc resist function) - rework required so it does affect HR stuns and CW Chillstacks as much as it does , this is alot of the class mechanics and damage taken away ..

    If these two things are given some attention, changed & applied in interim whilst the devs work on overall class balancing (rework) it might make pvp fun again as there will be more classes competing.

    Hope someone that cares reads all these posts that were posted ....

    1. All you will achieve is the removal of hardlocking for all classes in pvp.

    2. I don't know what the situation is now but a couple mods ago without Elven the only option I had when faced with a perma stun HR was just stand there and die, that's real fun btw, you should try it, just stand there each time, every time, for no glory, no reward and smile in the knowledge that you are feeding the ego of someone using a broken mechanic and pad his stats.

    So no, I categorically completely disagree with your ideas.

    TR's smoke Bomb and whatever other power they use alongside it to kill you while you crawl at 1 fps to hopelessly escape what you cannot escape from and die.

    As someone mentioned earlier, every class has something which is downright cheap and will kill you or has a way to completely mitigate 100% any damage (I'm talking to you bunny hopping CW's).

    So add a few stamina drains that removes a GF's only ability to defend himself (because, you know, our dodge is totally too OP for us to use) and we have only one tactic to use, hit hard, hit fast, hit first. Any other tactic and we're just dead in the water with no defense.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    Been PvP'ing for the first time in a long while to see what's changed, am using a loamweave enchant and after a couple matches started coming across pera stun HR's again. Even with 4 ranks in Steel Grace there's pretty much little you can do against them as a GF. Swapped in my Trans Elven and it does give me the space to at least pop my shield up, which seems impossible without, It (Trans Elven) does little to mitigate the smoke bomb combo where you just crawl out at 1 fps.

    The players seem a lot less toxic than they were before however which is a big plus.
  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    xgrandz02 said:

    urlord283 said:


    Do folks feel bad cause GF are finely becoming a PVP competitor?

    this has nothing to do with feeling bad,
    "I do agree that each class should be competitive to each other"
    But the current state of Gf-Burst is just overwhelming high if you are honest.
    lets wait and see what happens with other classes. Remember. GF buff was a revamp of the whole class in MOD 6. It needed to happen. Many classes such as the SW will have a complete and massive rework in MOD 10, hopefully other classes get this similar things because I primarily play a GF but playing every class in this game it's obvious changes should come.

    Expect changes to the:

    TR (dunks aka "Shocking Exacution", piercing damage)

    HR (roots aka perma roots)

    GWF (unstoppable bug aka smash the button down a billion times bug)

    GF (Shield Bug aka CC breaking through shield for no apparent reason)

    SW (complete rework) -I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS

    I can say many more bugs and errors on other classes but this is just an example.

    Those are the current classes I am sure of getting fixes, nerfs, or known to many "changes". Some are minor and some are GAME CHANGING. But like all things in this game, time will tell and change can happen at anytime. With the current way the GF is however, many on here are primarily complaining about Conquerer Tanks dealing way to much DPS in PvP. Do you all not realize this was never a problem until the recent modules with the introduction to mount bonus's, under dark rings, and drowned weapons?? Every class in this game (if done correctly) can tank and do a great amount of DPS at the same time. It's just how the game is right now. However with the GF currently, it is at a great advantage, as it is a prime example of where this game is going.

    If you remember since MOD 5 and 6 (Mostly 6) Tanks could still do DPS on a Conq. The only difference was they could die! As stated above this was not an issue nor have I EVER seen this on the forums until around MOD 8 with the introduction to ambush rings and many other pointless things that have been put into the game.

    i also hope the people wanting massive power reductions "nerfs" and giving "ultimatums" are experienced players who are familiar with the GF. Not people who go into PvP with Guild Gear, 1k tenacity, started playing MOD 9, get matched up with a 3.9k Conq Tank and get 2 shotted by a GF.... and then come here on the forums to complain. Many of the points I see on here are also very "rare" or in better terms "unlikely" to occur. Like seriously Knights Challenge in PvP?? lol. Do you even know what you are talking about?!?! Some of these idiotic comments I also see on here are situations that simply won't happen. seriously a "decrees in burst damage"?? That is what the DPS part of this class is, just how a Sentinel GWF is supposed to be a Tanky GWF.

    Please understand, Conquerer GF's are meant to do DPS. Preferably "Burst". Where as compared to a GWF are meant to do constant and brutal DPS. Far more than a GF. That can't be argued. A good example is Sure Strike compared to Crushing Surge as the Targets health diminishes Sure Strike's damage is increased periodically the more the enemies health bar is down. Crushing Surge CANNOT do that.

    So what happens?

    By no means do I consider GF's broken or OP, what I do think needs to happen is a look on what other classes need, instead of crying nerfs on the Guardian Fighter. Seriously, other classes since MOD 5 have not been seriously looked at! The TR stealth meter I am hearing hasn't been fixed since MOD 5 for example. So why isn't every TR crying for this to get fixed? Why isn't the TR's going out and sending messages to the Developers? I hear that CW's have been greatly affected by the LM nerf. Why aren't you guys wanting more DPS? or a fix to your spells and powers? but instead hop on here to rant about the GF in PvP.

    Of course it's an assumption as I am sure many of you guys have complained about these annoying issues with your class, but I guarantee you MOST do not. Please be valiant and patient. I can guarantee you, you will be seeing changes in your class soon, perhaps for the better, or sadly for the worse. But please do not expect a huge nerf to the GF. As most tanks in this game are actual tanks. aka Support/Buff (Tactician) and Living Walls (Protector) tanks. Nerfing things like ITF would destroy PvE and would affect PvP alike. Nerfing even DPS tanks would force these players to adapt to tanks in PvP as Conq would no longer be viable..... Then people will complain again on how tanks are too overpowered how they can take so much damage. Do you see where I am getting at here?? You see, many of you on here wouldn't know how this would affect other people who aren't DPS tanks, for the people who don't PvP, for the people who don't try and save the situation by looking at their own characters and class, because most players seem to be lazy and don't care what happens because they are biased and side with what they want on THEIR class. And how it affects THEM. Think about how it affects the class as a whole in a big picture. The original idea of a Conq tank is to be very squishy compared to Pro or Tac tank. It is a DPS (OPTION) to the GF but is put there for a reason so that you can deal heavy damage as a GF which the Developers WANT. But because of where the game is currently, they can DPS and remain tanky, see what I am saying? The game didn't make them OP, it made the overall game broke. Not much powers scale to PvP and thats a FACT!

    What I expect to happen:

    ITF instead of 25% of DR as damage to you and your allies, it might be nerfed to 20%.

    Shield Warriors Wrath (Probably the move everyone wants nerfed) will not get nerfed. As it may be a surprise to many, but blocking on a GF is not as easy as it may be. It isn't just (shield up) Its time your shield correctly, watch everything thats going on around you, count the targets and think how you will execute the situation and time you attack properly. Perhaps instead of 4% per stack its lowered to 3%. This probably won't get nerfed but like I said but hey, I'm not a Developer, idk whats gunna happen.

    Anvil of Doom: NO WAY IN **** is that getting nerfed. It misses to often, it can be dodged and deflected, and you see the best results when the target is below 40% health as it deals double damage. Which only happens if the target is prone. If they nerfed this, they nerf IBS. Which we all know WONT HAPPEN.

    Did not mean to come off rude, just being honest. Think before you post. And consider how these kind of proposal's affect others. I also know I cannot spell for my life. Do not quote me on my spelling. Now all I do now is wait for the hate replies I am about to receive. And I salute you @jumpingmorks for your comments above bro. Just goes to show all my points.

    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    It's been said before but any tink
    theguiido said:

    xgrandz02 said:

    urlord283 said:


    Do folks feel bad cause GF are finely becoming a PVP competitor?

    this has nothing to do with feeling bad,
    "I do agree that each class should be competitive to each other"
    But the current state of Gf-Burst is just overwhelming high if you are honest.

    Did not mean to come off rude, just being honest. Think before you post. And consider how these kind of proposal's affect others. I also know I cannot spell for my life. Do not quote me on my spelling. Now all I do now is wait for the hate replies I am about to receive. And I salute you @jumpingmorks for your comments above bro. Just goes to show all my points.

    Personally, I've said it before and others have said it too in the past, we should also avoid tinkering with individual powers of each class, this needs to be nerfed, this needs removing, this mechanic/power needs a buff, we cannot continue to expect that continually putting a sticking plaster or even having something removed entirely will address any issues, Cryptic have been doing this for as long as I remember, the help menus when you are stuck inside geometry still advise new and old players a like that you should use /defeatme or /killme are just 2 examples I can think of from the top of my head.

    We just need to separate PvP from PvE completely, they already do this to a very limited extent but at the end of the day, PvE and PvP are two vastly different game modes, they each need their own rules.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    theguiido said:

    xgrandz02 said:

    urlord283 said:


    Do folks feel bad cause GF are finely becoming a PVP competitor?

    this has nothing to do with feeling bad,
    "I do agree that each class should be competitive to each other"
    But the current state of Gf-Burst is just overwhelming high if you are honest.
    lets wait and see what happens with other classes. Remember. GF buff was a revamp of the whole class in MOD 6. It needed to happen. Many classes such as the SW will have a complete and massive rework in MOD 10, hopefully other classes get this similar things because I primarily play a GF but playing every class in this game it's obvious changes should come.

    Expect changes to the:

    TR (dunks aka "Shocking Exacution", piercing damage)

    HR (roots aka perma roots)

    GWF (unstoppable bug aka smash the button down a billion times bug)

    GF (Shield Bug aka CC breaking through shield for no apparent reason)

    SW (complete rework) -I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS

    I can say many more bugs and errors on other classes but this is just an example.

    Those are the current classes I am sure of getting fixes, nerfs, or known to many "changes". Some are minor and some are GAME CHANGING. But like all things in this game, time will tell and change can happen at anytime. With the current way the GF is however, many on here are primarily complaining about Conquerer Tanks dealing way to much DPS in PvP. Do you all not realize this was never a problem until the recent modules with the introduction to mount bonus's, under dark rings, and drowned weapons?? Every class in this game (if done correctly) can tank and do a great amount of DPS at the same time. It's just how the game is right now. However with the GF currently, it is at a great advantage, as it is a prime example of where this game is going.

    If you remember since MOD 5 and 6 (Mostly 6) Tanks could still do DPS on a Conq. The only difference was they could die! As stated above this was not an issue nor have I EVER seen this on the forums until around MOD 8 with the introduction to ambush rings and many other pointless things that have been put into the game.

    i also hope the people wanting massive power reductions "nerfs" and giving "ultimatums" are experienced players who are familiar with the GF. Not people who go into PvP with Guild Gear, 1k tenacity, started playing MOD 9, get matched up with a 3.9k Conq Tank and get 2 shotted by a GF.... and then come here on the forums to complain. Many of the points I see on here are also very "rare" or in better terms "unlikely" to occur. Like seriously Knights Challenge in PvP?? lol. Do you even know what you are talking about?!?! Some of these idiotic comments I also see on here are situations that simply won't happen. seriously a "decrees in burst damage"?? That is what the DPS part of this class is, just how a Sentinel GWF is supposed to be a Tanky GWF.

    Please understand, Conquerer GF's are meant to do DPS. Preferably "Burst". Where as compared to a GWF are meant to do constant and brutal DPS. Far more than a GF. That can't be argued. A good example is Sure Strike compared to Crushing Surge as the Targets health diminishes Sure Strike's damage is increased periodically the more the enemies health bar is down. Crushing Surge CANNOT do that.

    So what happens?

    By no means do I consider GF's broken or OP, what I do think needs to happen is a look on what other classes need, instead of crying nerfs on the Guardian Fighter. Seriously, other classes since MOD 5 have not been seriously looked at! The TR stealth meter I am hearing hasn't been fixed since MOD 5 for example. So why isn't every TR crying for this to get fixed? Why isn't the TR's going out and sending messages to the Developers? I hear that CW's have been greatly affected by the LM nerf. Why aren't you guys wanting more DPS? or a fix to your spells and powers? but instead hop on here to rant about the GF in PvP.

    Of course it's an assumption as I am sure many of you guys have complained about these annoying issues with your class, but I guarantee you MOST do not. Please be valiant and patient. I can guarantee you, you will be seeing changes in your class soon, perhaps for the better, or sadly for the worse. But please do not expect a huge nerf to the GF. As most tanks in this game are actual tanks. aka Support/Buff (Tactician) and Living Walls (Protector) tanks. Nerfing things like ITF would destroy PvE and would affect PvP alike. Nerfing even DPS tanks would force these players to adapt to tanks in PvP as Conq would no longer be viable..... Then people will complain again on how tanks are too overpowered how they can take so much damage. Do you see where I am getting at here?? You see, many of you on here wouldn't know how this would affect other people who aren't DPS tanks, for the people who don't PvP, for the people who don't try and save the situation by looking at their own characters and class, because most players seem to be lazy and don't care what happens because they are biased and side with what they want on THEIR class. And how it affects THEM. Think about how it affects the class as a whole in a big picture. The original idea of a Conq tank is to be very squishy compared to Pro or Tac tank. It is a DPS (OPTION) to the GF but is put there for a reason so that you can deal heavy damage as a GF which the Developers WANT. But because of where the game is currently, they can DPS and remain tanky, see what I am saying? The game didn't make them OP, it made the overall game broke. Not much powers scale to PvP and thats a FACT!

    What I expect to happen:

    ITF instead of 25% of DR as damage to you and your allies, it might be nerfed to 20%.

    Shield Warriors Wrath (Probably the move everyone wants nerfed) will not get nerfed. As it may be a surprise to many, but blocking on a GF is not as easy as it may be. It isn't just (shield up) Its time your shield correctly, watch everything thats going on around you, count the targets and think how you will execute the situation and time you attack properly. Perhaps instead of 4% per stack its lowered to 3%. This probably won't get nerfed but like I said but hey, I'm not a Developer, idk whats gunna happen.

    Anvil of Doom: NO WAY IN **** is that getting nerfed. It misses to often, it can be dodged and deflected, and you see the best results when the target is below 40% health as it deals double damage. Which only happens if the target is prone. If they nerfed this, they nerf IBS. Which we all know WONT HAPPEN.

    Did not mean to come off rude, just being honest. Think before you post. And consider how these kind of proposal's affect others. I also know I cannot spell for my life. Do not quote me on my spelling. Now all I do now is wait for the hate replies I am about to receive. And I salute you @jumpingmorks for your comments above bro. Just goes to show all my points.

    you forgot knights challenge, this is a spell wich "doubles" your "double-damage" getting redicules numbers either with Bullcharge or Anvil.
    But I think it´s not benefitial to nerf everything, ITF in the first place needs a cap but also a fix for these interaction with AS, HG, sigil from paladin etc.
    Facing a combo from DC+GF+ a third buffer in PVP like in PVE makes things crappy.

    About warlock I would like to see somthing like a counter against those mad-buffs, like a spell to course a target finishing his buffs at once :)
    A class that can do a HAMSTER in PVP in terms of selfbuffing but can debuff classes like GWF/GF at least.
    The class also needs a buff in terms of burst damage, wich is needed in PVP.

    In general I hope they readjust selfheal for PVP. Insignia was the last nail in the coffin, making some classes immortal, the tanky classes like GWF, GF, TR got another step up, having more abilities to heal up.
  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User

    theguiido said:

    xgrandz02 said:

    urlord283 said:


    Do folks feel bad cause GF are finely becoming a PVP competitor?

    this has nothing to do with feeling bad,
    "I do agree that each class should be competitive to each other"
    But the current state of Gf-Burst is just overwhelming high if you are honest.
    lets wait and see what happens with other classes. Remember. GF buff was a revamp of the whole class in MOD 6. It needed to happen. Many classes such as the SW will have a complete and massive rework in MOD 10, hopefully other classes get this similar things because I primarily play a GF but playing every class in this game it's obvious changes should come.

    Expect changes to the:

    TR (dunks aka "Shocking Exacution", piercing damage)

    HR (roots aka perma roots)

    GWF (unstoppable bug aka smash the button down a billion times bug)

    GF (Shield Bug aka CC breaking through shield for no apparent reason)

    SW (complete rework) -I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS

    I can say many more bugs and errors on other classes but this is just an example.

    Those are the current classes I am sure of getting fixes, nerfs, or known to many "changes". Some are minor and some are GAME CHANGING. But like all things in this game, time will tell and change can happen at anytime. With the current way the GF is however, many on here are primarily complaining about Conquerer Tanks dealing way to much DPS in PvP. Do you all not realize this was never a problem until the recent modules with the introduction to mount bonus's, under dark rings, and drowned weapons?? Every class in this game (if done correctly) can tank and do a great amount of DPS at the same time. It's just how the game is right now. However with the GF currently, it is at a great advantage, as it is a prime example of where this game is going.

    If you remember since MOD 5 and 6 (Mostly 6) Tanks could still do DPS on a Conq. The only difference was they could die! As stated above this was not an issue nor have I EVER seen this on the forums until around MOD 8 with the introduction to ambush rings and many other pointless things that have been put into the game.

    i also hope the people wanting massive power reductions "nerfs" and giving "ultimatums" are experienced players who are familiar with the GF. Not people who go into PvP with Guild Gear, 1k tenacity, started playing MOD 9, get matched up with a 3.9k Conq Tank and get 2 shotted by a GF.... and then come here on the forums to complain. Many of the points I see on here are also very "rare" or in better terms "unlikely" to occur. Like seriously Knights Challenge in PvP?? lol. Do you even know what you are talking about?!?! Some of these idiotic comments I also see on here are situations that simply won't happen. seriously a "decrees in burst damage"?? That is what the DPS part of this class is, just how a Sentinel GWF is supposed to be a Tanky GWF.

    Please understand, Conquerer GF's are meant to do DPS. Preferably "Burst". Where as compared to a GWF are meant to do constant and brutal DPS. Far more than a GF. That can't be argued. A good example is Sure Strike compared to Crushing Surge as the Targets health diminishes Sure Strike's damage is increased periodically the more the enemies health bar is down. Crushing Surge CANNOT do that.

    So what happens?

    By no means do I consider GF's broken or OP, what I do think needs to happen is a look on what other classes need, instead of crying nerfs on the Guardian Fighter. Seriously, other classes since MOD 5 have not been seriously looked at! The TR stealth meter I am hearing hasn't been fixed since MOD 5 for example. So why isn't every TR crying for this to get fixed? Why isn't the TR's going out and sending messages to the Developers? I hear that CW's have been greatly affected by the LM nerf. Why aren't you guys wanting more DPS? or a fix to your spells and powers? but instead hop on here to rant about the GF in PvP.

    Of course it's an assumption as I am sure many of you guys have complained about these annoying issues with your class, but I guarantee you MOST do not. Please be valiant and patient. I can guarantee you, you will be seeing changes in your class soon, perhaps for the better, or sadly for the worse. But please do not expect a huge nerf to the GF. As most tanks in this game are actual tanks. aka Support/Buff (Tactician) and Living Walls (Protector) tanks. Nerfing things like ITF would destroy PvE and would affect PvP alike. Nerfing even DPS tanks would force these players to adapt to tanks in PvP as Conq would no longer be viable..... Then people will complain again on how tanks are too overpowered how they can take so much damage. Do you see where I am getting at here?? You see, many of you on here wouldn't know how this would affect other people who aren't DPS tanks, for the people who don't PvP, for the people who don't try and save the situation by looking at their own characters and class, because most players seem to be lazy and don't care what happens because they are biased and side with what they want on THEIR class. And how it affects THEM. Think about how it affects the class as a whole in a big picture. The original idea of a Conq tank is to be very squishy compared to Pro or Tac tank. It is a DPS (OPTION) to the GF but is put there for a reason so that you can deal heavy damage as a GF which the Developers WANT. But because of where the game is currently, they can DPS and remain tanky, see what I am saying? The game didn't make them OP, it made the overall game broke. Not much powers scale to PvP and thats a FACT!

    What I expect to happen:

    ITF instead of 25% of DR as damage to you and your allies, it might be nerfed to 20%.

    Shield Warriors Wrath (Probably the move everyone wants nerfed) will not get nerfed. As it may be a surprise to many, but blocking on a GF is not as easy as it may be. It isn't just (shield up) Its time your shield correctly, watch everything thats going on around you, count the targets and think how you will execute the situation and time you attack properly. Perhaps instead of 4% per stack its lowered to 3%. This probably won't get nerfed but like I said but hey, I'm not a Developer, idk whats gunna happen.

    Anvil of Doom: NO WAY IN **** is that getting nerfed. It misses to often, it can be dodged and deflected, and you see the best results when the target is below 40% health as it deals double damage. Which only happens if the target is prone. If they nerfed this, they nerf IBS. Which we all know WONT HAPPEN.

    Did not mean to come off rude, just being honest. Think before you post. And consider how these kind of proposal's affect others. I also know I cannot spell for my life. Do not quote me on my spelling. Now all I do now is wait for the hate replies I am about to receive. And I salute you @jumpingmorks for your comments above bro. Just goes to show all my points.

    you forgot knights challenge, this is a spell wich "doubles" your "double-damage" getting redicules numbers either with Bullcharge or Anvil.
    But I think it´s not benefitial to nerf everything, ITF in the first place needs a cap but also a fix for these interaction with AS, HG, sigil from paladin etc.
    Facing a combo from DC+GF+ a third buffer in PVP like in PVE makes things crappy.

    About warlock I would like to see somthing like a counter against those mad-buffs, like a spell to course a target finishing his buffs at once :)
    A class that can do a **** in PVP in terms of selfbuffing but can debuff classes like GWF/GF at least.
    The class also needs a buff in terms of burst damage, wich is needed in PVP.

    In general I hope they readjust selfheal for PVP. Insignia was the last nail in the coffin, making some classes immortal, the tanky classes like GWF, GF, TR got another step up, having more abilities to heal up.
    Like I said in my post. Stop bringing up KC as a point. Those GF's are glass cannons, intended on focusing a target using an ambush ring lmao. A very unlikely situation in a premade and a very unlikely situation overall. Most DPS tanks don't even know how to be a DPS tank but my point being, SW your class MOD 10 aka Augest 2nd FULL CLASS REWORK wait for it soon lolol
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • lupisulupisu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 86 Arc User
    theguiido said:

    Like I said in my post. Stop bringing up KC as a point. Those GF's are glass cannons, intended on focusing a target using an ambush ring lmao. A very unlikely situation in a premade and a very unlikely situation overall. Most DPS tanks don't even know how to be a DPS tank but my point being, SW your class MOD 10 aka Augest 2nd FULL CLASS REWORK wait for it soon lolol

    A fine argument you make for not having to care about the dps focused ones, since there apparently are none..
    The reality in domination looks like this however:

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ****** deals 181618 (617661) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.

    Glass cannons they may arguably be, but not much more than other dps classes. And burst able to clear nodes is one way to build a premade. The results speak for themself.
  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    lupisu said:

    theguiido said:

    Like I said in my post. Stop bringing up KC as a point. Those GF's are glass cannons, intended on focusing a target using an ambush ring lmao. A very unlikely situation in a premade and a very unlikely situation overall. Most DPS tanks don't even know how to be a DPS tank but my point being, SW your class MOD 10 aka Augest 2nd FULL CLASS REWORK wait for it soon lolol

    A fine argument you make for not having to care about the dps focused ones, since there apparently are none..
    The reality in domination looks like this however:

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ****** deals 181618 (617661) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.

    Glass cannons they may arguably be, but not much more than other dps classes. And burst able to clear nodes is one way to build a premade. The results speak for themself.
    They are not glass cannons. They are tanks with the DPS of a glass cannon of other classes. Hence the outrage from most players.
    @lupisu Like I said in my post. Are you "new guy" that just started playing with no tenacity? get 1 or 2 shotted by a tank and now are complaining about it on here? I hope you realize that that amount of damage to anyone with tenacity from a GF is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Most of these people on here don't seem to be educated enough on the GF. Bringing up such illogical points. And now talking damage done to a PUG?? get over yourself man.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • lupisulupisu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    theguiido said:

    lupisu said:

    theguiido said:

    Like I said in my post. Stop bringing up KC as a point. Those GF's are glass cannons, intended on focusing a target using an ambush ring lmao. A very unlikely situation in a premade and a very unlikely situation overall. Most DPS tanks don't even know how to be a DPS tank but my point being, SW your class MOD 10 aka Augest 2nd FULL CLASS REWORK wait for it soon lolol

    A fine argument you make for not having to care about the dps focused ones, since there apparently are none..
    The reality in domination looks like this however:

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ****** deals 181618 (617661) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.

    Glass cannons they may arguably be, but not much more than other dps classes. And burst able to clear nodes is one way to build a premade. The results speak for themself.
    They are not glass cannons. They are tanks with the DPS of a glass cannon of other classes. Hence the outrage from most players.
    @lupisu Like I said in my post. Are you "new guy" that just started playing with no tenacity? get 1 or 2 shotted by a tank and now are complaining about it on here? I hope you realize that that amount of damage to anyone with tenacity from a GF is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Most of these people on here don't seem to be educated enough on the GF. Bringing up such illogical points. And now talking damage done to a PUG?? get over yourself man.
    If you look at the above figures you'll note that effective DR after armor penetration was 70.6%. Apparently you have a hard time grasping the point, but the figure in the brackets is not dependent on the gear of the recipient. And unless deflecting or having damage immunity one way or another that hit will deal at least 123532 with capped DR and no armor pen involved. It's not a gear issue as game mechanics cap DR.

    And if you still have doubts, that log was from a toon with 3.2k tenacity. Next time take a moment to look at what is being said before going off on the assumption the other party doesn't know what they're talking about.

    *edit* The only reason I even got involved in this was because you were claiming that as a GF you know that kind of damage is impossible. It's not. No matter how much it hurts to admit others can do things you can not.

    God knows there's no trusting Cryptic to do sensible adjustments without over reacting so I'm not really clamoring for a GF nerf. Sprouting false propaganda does tick my boxes enough to respond though.
    Post edited by lupisu on
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I am amused to see ppl in forum still defending GF and his mechanics in PVP.
    Those player must play a pretty sad GF in DOM , still having issues with other classes.
    It's all said 1000 times and starting this discission again and again, from a suvjective pov, being a bad performing GF , doesn't change a thing in PVP
  • playasinnombreplayasinnombre Member Posts: 42 Arc User

    PvP maps are empty because the PvP guilds started in GG roflstomping pugs ruthlessly. Pugs aren't stupid if they have no chance for reward they'll go find some other reward and they did.

    +2 ^^ THIS^^
  • playasinnombreplayasinnombre Member Posts: 42 Arc User

    I think the biggest part of PVP community left or quit PVP because they were fed up of those ups and downs with their class had to suffer and because tons of broken gear and feats/power flooded this game.
    Some hop on the next broken one, a lot just retired and left in the past mods 4-5-6. A big part of them well geared and by no means 24/7 victimized in GG, only bored and disappointed.

    I can't speak to why "the community" left... I know what did it for me - 6 weeks with no rewards, no rewards @ all, for my 2 - 3 match daily run. I had a pretty good run in PvP prior to lv 33 - 35. I didn't win much, but sometimes & I was slowly getting closer to getting an actual boon reward. Then 3 things happened. The first was ppl complaining about campfire sitters. The response to this was to remove reward from any player that failed to earn 400 points in the match. the second thing that happened was the release of the burning set. & finally the removal of AD for the hourly PvP contest. As a result I PvP'd for 6 weeks with no rewards whatsoever. That's when I walked away.
  • playasinnombreplayasinnombre Member Posts: 42 Arc User

    clonkyo1 said:

    Domination is full of pugs, the problem are not PvP guilds but guilds using unfair items like drains vs players from low ranked guilds or PvP rings, which are not open for everyone.

    They are valid items that need to be earned with a lot of hard work on a guild level. While I don't dispute they completely destroy any further ability in which PvP can be balanced and would love to see their removal but people have worked hard to use them and they should not be seen as exploits or giving an unfair advantage to those with vs those without.

    That said I hear the top PvP guilds actually ban their use, I think Cryptic gambled poorly when they chose to maximize the competitiveness of PvP, when those at the top of their game are matched against others at the top of their game you have a level playing field, unfortunately, their matchmaking sucks and always has done and until they address this it isn't going to get any better.

    Let's be honest... the pug players don't care about rings/drains. In the end it doesn't matter the least bit if I die from 1hit with full AP or without. The only exception is the ambush rings which... if you are lucky... can keep you from getting 1-shot long enuff to cap for points. Before you get 1-shot while running away.

  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User

    @theguiido You say those numbers are impossible? I can show you how I one-shot the best gwfs on this server with maximum progress in everything. 300k damage from a single Bullcharge is too much on a BiS player.





    Knights Challenge is widely used by GFs who can actually play their class... in premades even more often than in pug matches ;)

    Well you all got your wishes. Pugs, newbies, other classes, it's happening.
    lupisu said:

    theguiido said:

    lupisu said:

    theguiido said:

    Like I said in my post. Stop bringing up KC as a point. Those GF's are glass cannons, intended on focusing a target using an ambush ring lmao. A very unlikely situation in a premade and a very unlikely situation overall. Most DPS tanks don't even know how to be a DPS tank but my point being, SW your class MOD 10 aka Augest 2nd FULL CLASS REWORK wait for it soon lolol

    A fine argument you make for not having to care about the dps focused ones, since there apparently are none..
    The reality in domination looks like this however:

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ****** deals 181618 (617661) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.

    Glass cannons they may arguably be, but not much more than other dps classes. And burst able to clear nodes is one way to build a premade. The results speak for themself.
    They are not glass cannons. They are tanks with the DPS of a glass cannon of other classes. Hence the outrage from most players.
    @lupisu Like I said in my post. Are you "new guy" that just started playing with no tenacity? get 1 or 2 shotted by a tank and now are complaining about it on here? I hope you realize that that amount of damage to anyone with tenacity from a GF is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Most of these people on here don't seem to be educated enough on the GF. Bringing up such illogical points. And now talking damage done to a PUG?? get over yourself man.
    If you look at the above figures you'll note that effective DR after armor penetration was 70.6%. Apparently you have a hard time grasping the point, but the figure in the brackets is not dependent on the gear of the recipient. And unless deflecting or having damage immunity one way or another that hit will deal at least 123532 with capped DR and no armor pen involved. It's not a gear issue as game mechanics cap DR.

    And if you still have doubts, that log was from a toon with 3.2k tenacity. Next time take a moment to look at what is being said before going off on the assumption the other party doesn't know what they're talking about.

    *edit* The only reason I even got involved in this was because you were claiming that as a GF you know that kind of damage is impossible. It's not. No matter how much it hurts to admit others can do things you can not.

    God knows there's no trusting Cryptic to do sensible adjustments without over reacting so I'm not really clamoring for a GF nerf. Sprouting false propaganda does tick my boxes enough to respond though.
    Well all of your wishes have been answered. GF "rework" will be posted next week.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
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