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only 2 raids? no endgame pve?
gilgaron
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
I mean we only have 2 raids? seriously thats it? what about endgame pve? does it just not exist?
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Well Endowed (Xbox)
eDEMO Skirmish
Kessels Skirmish
Shores of Tuern Skirmish
Castle Never
Epic Cragmire Crypts
Epic Temple of the Spider
Lair of Lostmouth
Valindra's Tower
If I had to pick one, I'd say Castle Never.
I prefer the use of the term "high level content" or "elder game" as opposed to "end game".
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Sure, I did eSoT and CN yesterday - I do eDemo every now and then and I run Tiamat a lot on weekends, but my "end game" is something different. I set myself particular limited goals, and try to reach them one by one. If I have to run the content I mentioned, it probably because the content is required for me to reach my actual goals. For example, I want to get all the boons in all the campaigns....and that means I need to run Tiamat 28 more times for the last Linu's Favours. The point is that running Tiamat is not the goal by itself - it is just the means towards the actual goal.
Another "end game goal" for me was to get all the professions to level 25 - yes, I know it is pretty much pointless, but I enjoy it.
Same applies to trying to get all the different titles and achievements in-game. It means I may have to run some content multiple times - (you cannot get all the Dwarven King/Pwent-related titles in a single run, for example). But once again - running the content is not the point - it's not the goal, just the means towards the goal.
A part of my end-game would be to run Foundry content, just for the variety, but I must admit that the lack of rewards is a bit demotivatiog, so I don't do that as much as I would like.
we actually dont have end game. Just content you do when you are bored of refining or you just need those peanuts of ads to keep the refining going.
In this game after max level there are the campaigns and events.
Forcing everyone to basically run dds for ad grind instead.. its really grindy and unrewarding.. Im hoping as they stated in a blog awhile back.. that they are really , truly looking at bringing back items for sale again in the AH.
Part of the issue is when they actually make something BOE for sale.. there is so little of it in the game.. that everyone just rushes to that and spams that content.
Until a wide ranging # amount of items that are worthwhile are dropped via BOE for sale.. this will stay the same.
(BTW even today.. they could put insignias and +3 rings and up on the market.. this would give some reason to spam things like pom and such... )
Sadly I dont know why they have limited rewards in such a manner this harshly.
They went too overboard in mod 5.. then went the other way since.
I certainly would like to see more Dungeons or harder content as some have mentioned but I personally do not enjoy "raids" or what WoW generation games set as "end games." In fact I played an MMO for years which was mainly all solo content and it was the best time I ever had playing in an MMO.
End game is getting goals. I wish NW had more variety in goals I could go for (such as non-easy bake oven crafting systems) to break up the hack and slash but running the same raid over and over again is not an "end game." The other game I mentioned only recently added "raids" after a decade on the market and even then the "raids" are most often done with 5-20 people. It took me 9 years to "beat" the game and there are still a million and one goals I could set without the "raids" they added.
Games with endless raid grinds are not enjoyable. NW isn't much better in that sense as it has little other than combat activities but at least I don't need to join a massive guild of people I likely don't care for in order to participate in the "end game."
I hope pala bubble removal (prot.pala myself) will change that a little but new content at 70 is direly needed (instead of revemaping elemental evil).
there was a topic if it still exists "what ia your endgame" where i wrote longly what mine is bit to sum it up: pray pray pray tempe of the spider pray pray.. maybe a CN if bored ( got my ring from there on my first run (lucker) ) and pray some more - also alts..
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
or that everything is fairly easy and mostly unrewarding and now you need to run things thousands upon thousands of time to progress?
WE already HAD AD + unbound items previous to leadership nerf. for running content.. it was JUST not our sole focus back in that day.
In fact we could make 20-30k on skirm hours for battle of the bridge which any good dps could solo in 3-4 minutes .
I think you are looking at it quite wrong.
There is no real extra income.. other then 12 k you can refine extra.. but you can just swap salvage around anyways.. 24k limit to me was fine.. because it didnt matter if you have some extra toons to spread on.
Just makes life a little easier I guess.
Those reduction of costs were driven like players like me.. in fact if there is one thing I will take credit for it was my constant yelling, screaming at them about costing that helped drive it. I might not ever do anything else worthwhile the entire time im here.. and alot of players POINT blank told me to leave the game.. both here and in game for my constant battle to reduce those.
http://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1209848/costing-re-visited-thanks-for-the-work-list-is-shorter-but-you-are-failing-in-some-areas-still
http://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1205947/im-frustrated-discouraged-and-getting-burnt-out-no-costing-changes-getting-tired-of-game
http://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1205642/costing-still-a-massive-issue-why-are-you-not-fixing-this-faster
http://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1203621/common-sense-changes-needed-after-alteration-of-leadership
I have been around enough on mmos to see staggering unfairness when its there.. reduction of leadership HAD to lead to costing changes because they were CRAZY otherwise.
THE issue was they dragged their feet and took bad advice from someone , somewhere.. leading to massive player base leaving.
IF THEY did both at the same time, the couldve retained another 20-30% of players.
Dont come on here and tell me whats what about AD grind and costing.
Im EVERY day.. day in and day out grinding it out.. mudball style.
And I believe the cost reductions were delayed to drain the AD wealth some players had amassed.
Everyone got a personal opinion about endgame. But not everyone is yelling/screaming and whining like silverkelt cuzz its not the endgame he/she wanna have.
And here comes the thing either be bis by doing interesting dungeons or by having to farm 16mil ad for that mount that gives 2* the stats of your whole gear...
example CN - ring that gives 4000 stats for a limited time vs mount that gives it 100% of the time via ... you guessed right borring ad farm.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
im not unhappy, I was trying to point out that end result of all of these changes are similar in terms of ad needed in terms of %, but now we just have to run it about 2-300% more. I was a little upset in terms of someone coming on here and spewing the same thing Ive heard way too much.. that somehow our new system is better then the old system. It wasnt.. not for players anyways.. maybe the game company received more income.. which is fine if they turn it around and give us stuff to play for. But have they really?
There is no intrinsic value to having to run content as much as they put in front of us.
I think a general rework of reward vs risk is needed.
In addition Ive given my thoughts on lessening power curve to allow devs a better design envelope. A shorter curve, frees up design ratio and players with a set of r9s will no longer be that far off of r12 players.. this should allow devs togive us a better design overall.. now just for players with a set of r8 as maximum need.. its too low of a curve right now. There is no reason for poeple to progress past that.. so they dont. I dont see how this maximizes gaming profits for the company either. You dont want it too hard, but you dont want it as easy as it is now.. they need to be the carrot a little farther out.
I think most of us are tired of the need to run the same content thousands of time to progress.
I hope a lot more WoW players will open threads. As a WoW player you know EVERYTHING about EVERY mmmoprg.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Username blinxon Joined August 2015 Visits 494 Last Active 5:03PM Roles Member Posts 468
you never knew the true neverwinter tho. I hope you enjoy it right now but its nothing compared to the past content wise.
you never knew all the dungeons, you never knew the right choice of party comps, you never knew gauntlgrym. Hell you never saw a control wizard acting like a control wizard.
edit_ just noticed the joining date feature might be bugged from the forum change. It says i joined in june 2015.
The only difference is in the preference.
You run the same raids over and over and over again in games like WoW. The difference is that in NW you only need 4 warm bodies instead of 39. It's easier to get 4 warm bodies I enjoy being next to than 39. As such I have no interest in raids.
If you want to claim the difference is that somehow selling gear is better...it's not. Gear is handed out so liberally in the game that most items that were acquired from dungeon runs were worth less than the salvaging value. There were only a handful of items worth more at the time. It's a fact people forget and love to complain about just because they FEEL better when they sell items.
This argument is probably one of my biggest peeves. You earn more running dungeons now than before the changes which made most of the drops BoP. The game hands out gear like no tomorrow and there are very, very few rare items that can only be acquired from drops.
The trash that is awarded in most runs are worth more as salvage than they ever were as drops. The rare drops are only valuable because they are rare. People forget the same moans and groans existed before salvaging became the main source of rewards.
They complained their drops were worthless. The devs gave the drops worth by reducing how many of the drops could be put onto the market and gave an artificial minimum through salvaging. Now people are blinded by nostalgia or ignorance believing that the drops they are forced to salvage wouldn't be worthless (again) if every drop that is handed out like candy was no longer BoP.
You are basically forgetting mods 1-4 and focusing on 5 when they ripped all the value away from the sets entirely.
I promise you the moment i got my 2nd aow helmet and converted over to a greater plauge was a day I wont forget early on in the game.
Tell me what loot translates to that now?
Run ECC with no pally and let me know you don't find a challenge there. We did it the other night and it was a blast!
Im not discussing the value of salvaging, thanks devs for that but its disheartening to find a group, start a dungeon knowing you are gonna gain 10k ads at most.
the same end game "demogorgon" rewards are 3k ads most of the times, up to a top of 12k IF you have a demogorgon key which is one for day or 30k ADs. Nobody is discussing what some people like and what others dont but probably the whole thing grind-value-risk need to be reviewed.
Nobody wants to grind to death.
Risk justifies some more loot value.
In the end without reworking gear nothing will change.
There should be some kind of randomizer to allow a determined piece of gear to drop with multiple stats combination.
for example one can drop a regen-deflect ring with 301 regen and 302 deflect, someone else will drop the same version but with slightly higher stats (lets say 310-315) or a whole new different stat combination but in the end something has to drop always.
the true culprit is the release of a new dungeon once every 2 mods with like 0 drop rate. And it cant be different since everyone will be able to clear it and since everyone will run that new and so awaited dungeon.
Another thing that i still hope they will change somedays is the ratio mods/year.
2 well structured and tested mods with adventure areas, dungeons, bug fixes, little class changes are better than 4 almost-something full of stuffs not working and so on.
Mod 7 for example can be classified as a mod?
Mod 5?
mod 8 and 9 together dont even make a mod, are we ever going to see an underdark adventure zone? if the answer is mod 10 well maybe mod 8 - 9 - 10 should have been a single release.
That said, the way I see it is as follows...
One of, if not the biggest, flaws with Neverwinter as it stands today is the way new mods starting with Elemental Evil have been handled. (a chunk of what follows is conjecture due to when I started playing, sorry if I miss anything, I'll let you know when the conjecture ends).
June 2013 game (Mod 0, Vanilla, whatever) is released. Core game featured several dungeons, 4 classes (CW, DC, GF, GWF, and TR), 7 races (Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfing, Wood Elf, Dwarf, Tiefling) w/ 1 "bonus" race available for purchase (Menzo Ren). Core game was put in place.
2 months (August 2013) later Feywild was released as the 1st Expansion (Mod 1). Feywild introduced the campaign system, the boon system, added 3 races (Drow, Moon Elf, Sun Elf), a new dungeon, a new skirmish, new gear, and anew zone - lots of shiny new things were added.
4 months after that (December 2013) Shadowmantle was released (expansion 2, Mod 2). Shadowmantle introduced a new class (HR), a new campaign, a new dungeon, a new skirmish, a new zone, new gear, added new paragon paths, introduced artifacts, and introduced companion active bonuses - again, lots of shiny new things.
6 months later (May 2014) Icewind Dale was released (expansion 3, mod 3). IWD introduced a new profession (Black Ice), a new hub city, 2 new zones, 2 new campaigns, a new skirmish, Heroic Encounters, a new paragon path for HR, Overflow Experience (and I'm assuming power points), new gear, and Overload enchantments - again, lots of shiny new things.
3 months later (August 2014) ToD was released (expansion 4, mod 4). ToD introduced a new Class (SW), a new race (Dragonborn), a new "dungeon" ("" beacuse it is much closer to a skirmish than dungeon), another skirmish, artifact equipment was introduced, a new campaign was added, new gear, and new Heroic Encounters - again lots of stuff, I also believe this is when NW paired with WotC, the ToD release was directly tied with WotC's current campaign.
3 months later (November 2014), Rise of Tiamat was released (expansion 5, mod 5). Unlike previous releases, RoT was a direct extension of ToD, a continuation of mod 4. RoT added a new paragon path for SW, Artifact cloaks, artifact off-hands, a new profession, a new zone, and after approximately a 1 month delay - the Temple of Tiamat raid - true (and arguably the only) End Game raiding content, composed of 25 players and available once an hour. Again, lots of shiny new stuff.
From here on out, there is no conjecture.
All is relatively healthy in the world of Neverwinter, each expansion thus far has added something to the mix, something new (and in many cases, many things new) have been added with each expansion. The game is moving in the right direction and in January of 2015, roughly 2 months after the release of RoT, Elemental Evil was announced...
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9062673
Touted by some as "the module is said to be the largest one yet and will increase the level cap to 70"
http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/news.cfm?read=33591&ismb=1
Sweet, a new level cap, a new class, and the biggest module yet! This is going to be awesome....
Then E Day came...
Scheduled for release in March of 2015, but delayed until April, EE (expansion 6, mod 6) came, and instead of the "largest one yet", ripped the game to pieces, all but 3 of the original 12 dungeons were removed, Gauntlgrym was gutted (never got to experience this), zones that had been available we're reworked and no longer accessible, experience curve from 60-70 went crazy, difficulty went berserk, "new zones" were simply recycled old zones with a mechanic (vigilance quests) that make them insane boring, tedious, and grindy, etc & so on... basically all that had gone into making this game what it was was thrown out and rewritten over night.
Cryptic/PWE eventually caught on...
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9213383-neverwinter:-looking-into-elemental-evil
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9233063-neverwinter:-elemental-evil-changes-incoming
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9502353-neverwinter:-updates-to-difficulty-and-leveling-speed
What's happened since?
Strongholds - powercreep grind, very "meh" IMO. Strongholds can keep you busy considering the cost everything is, but it gets insanely repetitive, a mediocre PvP setting
Underdark - a new hub city, a new campaign, 3 skirmishes, no gear drops (other than too many variations of novelty rings for the most part, rare chance to land an artifact weapon, purchasable decent armor - very meh on the purchasable part, make stuff drop please, non BoE please...\
Maze engine (have not played, not out on XBox) - oh how you got people excited with the announcement that dungeons were coming back, but as leveling w/ the exception of CN.... meh, mount system and QUE system do seem nice.
Underdark/Maze Engine seem to me it should be a one mod that got spread apart.
Now, after this history lesson rant, and back to my original point - the order in which this has happened is obscene - there was more to do in this game at max level when the game was originally released than there is now.
Through Tiamat, things were on the up and up... each mod brought something new to the table.
EE happened and tore that all down, an increased level cap, with stripped down end game. Tiamat is still (mind you I haven't played any of the Maze engine) the biggest, baddest baddie out there - but it goes basically unused because loot tables are broken and suck. eDemo is a decent encounter, but a mod that centers around a skirmish?
I suppose you could blame the original (I'm assuming we are dealing with a different) dev team for being too ambitious, and the 1st 4-5 modules were unsustainable, but I'm not buying that...
As is (or as was) 1-60 is a cake walk (but fun cake walk), 60-70 is a mind numbing grind fest, get to 70 and horray... what is there to really do... the "end game zones" = IWD, Sharandar, WoD, DR... EToS/CC/GWD (why run any but the fastest - there is no loot diversity), LoL - hooray for speed runs for a .01% chance at a Horn? eDemo - grinding Twisted Ichor, other than that what's the point?
EE killed this game in many, many ways. EE happened a year ago.
Vanilla NW through Mod 5 = first 18 months of NW - 15 dungeons, 5 campaigns, 25 man raid, 2 new classes, 4 new races
Mod 6 through present = last 13 months of NW - down to 7 dungeons (similar to Grandpa Simpsons feelings toward Missouri, I do not recognize leveling dungeons), added 2 campaigns, a 10 man raid, and a class...
For a game that is approaching 3 years old, I find it extraordinarily odd that seemingly the amount of content is shrinking, not expanding.
My 2 cents anyways.